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macduke

macrumors G5
Jun 27, 2007
13,188
19,799
Are you familiar with how Night Mode works? It takes several exposures and merges them together, resulting in a brighter image in which anything moving ends up blurred. Hence my skepticism that this was Night Mode, since the moving subject is not blurred.
Not only do I know how it works, but I'm also a photographer (who has edited using similar techniques manually) and work as a developer and read a lot about computational photography so I probably understand how it works on a deeper level than most people.

Apparently you don't know how it works. I don't usually call people out like this, but you called me out on this without even knowing the facts yourself. I'll allow Apple to explain:

Night mode comes on automatically when needed — say, in a candlelit restaurant. When you tap the shutter, the camera takes multiple images while optical image stabilization steadies the lens.

Then the camera software goes to work. It aligns images to correct for movement. It discards the sections with too much blur and fuses sharper ones. It adjusts contrast so everything stays in balance. It fine-tunes colors so they look natural. Then it intelligently de-noises and enhances details to produce the final image.

Emphasis is mine. They use ML for everything. I'm sure that in the parts that have movement, which they discard, they are applying ML to fill in the details and de-noise so those parts don't look too weird from being boosted. Basically the neural network has enough good data from the parts that aren't moving that it can bring up the parts that are moving (and therefore don't have enough usable exposure info to do noise stacking or expose for shadow detail) to make it look natural with the rest of the scene. But I wouldn't be surprised if you pixel peeped moving objects if they don't look quite as good up close. On Instagram though? Perfect.

People truly underestimate the power of computational photography. It's a game changer to the fullest extent of that phrase. They are doing things on the fly that might take an expert dozens of minutes to hours to get right with careful preparation and editing. And they do it in a fraction of a second. It's nuts. I can't believe how many people I saw who were upset that they weren't adding this for the XS. It's a lot of processing power! Good thing the iPhone 11 Pro has much longer battery life and faster CPU and neural engine.
 

NickName99

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2018
946
2,752
Not only do I know how it works, but I'm also a photographer (who has edited using similar techniques manually) and work as a developer and read a lot about computational photography so I probably understand how it works on a deeper level than most people.

Apparently you don't know how it works. I don't usually call people out like this, but you called me out on this without even knowing the facts yourself. I'll allow Apple to explain:



Emphasis is mine. They use ML for everything. I'm sure that in the parts that have movement, which they discard, they are applying ML to fill in the details and de-noise so those parts don't look too weird from being boosted. Basically the neural network has enough good data from the parts that aren't moving that it can bring up the parts that are moving (and therefore don't have enough usable exposure info to do noise stacking or expose for shadow detail) to make it look natural with the rest of the scene. But I wouldn't be surprised if you pixel peeped moving objects if they don't look quite as good up close. On Instagram though? Perfect.

People truly underestimate the power of computational photography. It's a game changer to the fullest extent of that phrase. They are doing things on the fly that might take an expert dozens of minutes to hours to get right with careful preparation and editing. And they do it in a fraction of a second. It's nuts. I can't believe how many people I saw who were upset that they weren't adding this for the XS. It's a lot of processing power! Good thing the iPhone 11 Pro has much longer battery life and faster CPU and neural engine.

I’ll fully aware of all that, I’m a software developer and a photographer as well. We probably have a lot of common interests at play here!

My skepticism about the photo, as I mentioned, was from that moving subject being both boosted dramatically and not blurred at all. It’s also tough to say anything definitive since we’re comparing two low res photos posted on Twitter, we don’t have the exif data or anything.

I’m don’t have a dog in this race, I’d be happy to be wrong. I announced my skepticism, discussion ensued, it’s all good.
 

GoodWheaties

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2015
788
840
I feel like Night Mode is a feature that would be able to make its way to older devices, but I’m guessing its not going to happen.
 
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sumsingwong

macrumors 6502a
Dec 15, 2012
771
368
Just for reference. Here's a few shots from my Note 10 Plus (Night Shot) and OnePlus 7 Pro (Nighstcape).
2f6601ee8679577c3f6273341b6e7038.jpg
776f14226bbc9625d74e8a0091f300bd.jpg
d94861e79aa02bb6b6c9ea3459488848.jpg
393e1880a5ba9a93c2154e92b50fd37a.jpg


OnePlus 7 Pro
f442bfdd1f68da7dbf8d72915329a4d6.jpg
4eaaca4e023e2097fb796cdd70e27b27.jpg
 
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iMEric984

macrumors regular
Oct 20, 2018
190
96
Boston MA
I think it’s safe to say the naysayers and haters have sullied their reputations to the point that no one pays any attention to them anymore, especially in the MacRumor comment sections.
Haha haha! This!
[doublepost=1568338783][/doublepost]
Are you familiar with how Night Mode works? It takes several exposures and merges them together, resulting in a brighter image in which anything moving ends up blurred. Hence my skepticism that this was Night Mode, since the moving subject is not blurred.
It’s probably using the smart HDR in addition to the night mode. Just like how iPhone XS can expose a moving HDR shot with no blur. Multiple exposures before and after the shutter is pressed.
 

szw-mapple fan

macrumors 68040
Jul 28, 2012
3,503
4,369
View attachment 857722

I don't think there's a phone on the planet that would take that first picture that dark. Even the iPhone 4. I'm calling BS to this comparison.

If you look at the pixel’s night mode comparisons, this kind of picture is definitely possible with smartphones.
[doublepost=1568339449][/doublepost]
Apple has completely lost the plot. Three camera lenses is so far beyond necessary.

Then don’t buy it. I for one would definitely buy it to use the three lenses if I need an upgrade this year. It’s not like the extra lenses didn’t come with noticeable camera features.
 
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Guscat

macrumors member
Jun 24, 2010
93
95
View attachment 857722

I don't think there's a phone on the planet that would take that first picture that dark. Even the iPhone 4. I'm calling BS to this comparison.
Really? I just took these 2 photos a minute ago with my XR. The darker photo was with the stock Camera app while the lighter photo I took with the NeuralCam app which I am just playing around with. I am pretty sure the Apple photos had a bit more light than I had in my shot, and the NeuralCam app isn't as good as what the 11 can do in low light (this is as much as anything because the lens on the 11 is clearly better than my XR lens and the processor is also clearly better).

Of course, there is always a chance your iPhone 4 has a vastly better camera than my XR has in which case you are clearly right.

I don't see any reason to believe Apple is BS-ing with this feature. As more than one person has pointed out, if Apple really is BS-ing about it they will be crucified when the phones actually hit the reviewers.
 

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NickName99

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2018
946
2,752
Really? I just took these 2 photos a minute ago with my XR. The darker photo was with the stock Camera app while the lighter photo I took with the NeuralCam app which I am just playing around with. I am pretty sure the Apple photos had a bit more light than I had in my shot, and the NeuralCam app isn't as good as what the 11 can do in low light (this is as much as anything because the lens on the 11 is clearly better than my XR lens and the processor is also clearly better).

Of course, there is always a chance your iPhone 4 has a vastly better camera than my XR has in which case you are clearly right.

I don't see any reason to believe Apple is BS-ing with this feature. As more than one person has pointed out, if Apple really is BS-ing about it they will be crucified when the phones actually hit the reviewers.

Nice! Looks consistent with what I was seeing on my iPhone X.

I bet night mode is going to be at least as good as Google Night Sight, hopefully even better. Obviously Apple will have used that as a benchmark, and they’ve got vastly superior hardware to work with in the A13 and their 3rd generation ML processor.
 
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Lightshaft

macrumors newbie
Sep 11, 2019
9
4
Where did you get the information about exclusivity of this feature? There is no such info on the official website.

it says: "With iPhone 11 and iPhone 11 Pro, a new Wide camera sensor works with intelligent software and A13 Bionic to let you do what was never possible on iPhone: get beautiful, detailed images in drastically lower light."

It has mention that in case of iPhone 11 it uses Wide camera sensor and A13. But it also could be that in case of XR/XS it will use Wide camera sensor and A12.
 

hagar

macrumors 68000
Jan 19, 2008
1,999
5,039
Apple has completely lost the plot. Three camera lenses is so far beyond necessary.

That’s why it’s called iPhone 11 PRO it’s only for professionals.

Yea I have it and it does work but unless Apple is lying, they will do it faster with much better colors and sharpness - here is an example of NeuralCam.

I find these NeuralCam shots quite convincing. Not sure if Apple is doing any better. Apple’s images don’t look sharp either. The feature seems to be quite useful to grab the atmosphere of the surroundings, say in a bar or club, rather than producing pro-level photos. Perfect for instagram.
 
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digthewell

macrumors regular
Sep 17, 2018
160
71
This is pretty cool. Can't wait to see it in action. This was one area where Apple was really lagging behind Android.
 

code-m

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2006
3,638
3,399
Don’t be “that guy”. People want to live life. They want to capture moments. They don’t want to be oh let’s not take these pictures in a bar because they light is just not “quite right“. The whole smart phone camera revolution made it so those spur of the moment pictures look a thousands times better than they use to (I’m talking about every brand not just Apple). That’s a good thing.

FOMO, majority of smartphone pictures will never be remembered, what is convenient is never remembered and taken for granted. There is a reason why memorable moments such as weddings are not documented by smartphone cameras. There may be a few fringe “photographers” doing it to get their 15 minutes of publicity but it is not the majority.
 

code-m

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2006
3,638
3,399
So you’re saying the secret to great bar pictures is to set up lights? Or recreate the bar in a studio?

I like the idea of taking decent pics in a variety of circumstances where the only equipment I have with me is the phone in my pocket.

Here is an idea, most people are glued to their phones most of the day, you and your friends are at a bar after a long day at work either to unwind or celebrate, relax enjoy the company, atmosphere and beverages and connect on a humanistic level. Technology does not have to encroach on every part of our lives. What is wrong with that biological memory vice depending on a photo to capture a moment that will be forgotten when a similar moment has been relived.
[doublepost=1568352039][/doublepost]
Why can't night mode be implemented on the X and XS/XR?

XS/XR possibly, X maybe not due to differences in camera tech. To my knowledge Apple mentioned nothing new about the camera lenses only about the image processor and A13 silicone. As most I suspect is done via AI/ML it may be possible as long as the device has the required amount of RAM.

The reason is mainly to sell the new phones.
 
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code-m

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2006
3,638
3,399
And next year these same people will tell us how the iPhone 12 makes the iPhone’s 11 photos look like crap....

Technological advancements, it’s a beautiful thing. We have a choice, I am sitting this one out as my XS serves me well.
 

Jdhommert

macrumors regular
Sep 8, 2016
153
149
I wonder why no 3X Optical Zoom. 2X isn't quite enough when I'm (very frequently) taking shots during sporting events. I was hoping not to need to continue carrying a dedicated camera so often. Digital Zoom (cropping) is not acceptable.

This, and, lack of reverse charging means I'll probably be skipping this generation iPhone...unfortunately.
I'm a loser Apple sheep it seems because I like to get the new phone each year, but I couldn't agree more. The two strong rumors/features that I wanted the most was 3x zoom (rumor has been around for as long as the 3 camera rumor, more than a year listed as the #1 benefit usually of 3 cameras, or at least always a top mention)

and reverse charging that all top androids have and was a strong rumor up until 2 days before the announcement.....so yet again Apple can't figure out wireless charging and strikes out

So yes it sucks not getting the 2 things I wanted the most on this phone...
 
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