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No NFC in Next-Generation iPhone

I think it's kinda cool technology, but I personally am not that heartbroken over it. My Nexus 7 has it, and it came with free $10. And I have yet to use it once. My biggest problem with NFC is that I have a large collection of credit cards for rewards. My Discover Card for certain quarterly purchases, my Citi Forward for restaurants/food/movies, my Amex for grocery stores, etc... Hey, I'm a Slickdealer, it's required :D.

In the four years since I've been out of college, I've easily racked up well over $1000 in rewards, between straight up cash, gift cards, etc. No way am I giving that up for the "convenience" of swiping with my phone. At least Google Wallet has partnered with Discover to give their cashback bonuses with NFC. But until NFC can detect what kind of store I'm at, and use the appropriate card based on the type of store, and give me the right rewards. No thanks.
 
nick_elt said:
Uh? So assuming Apple, uses this. Their implementation will kill mastercard/visa and androids implementation of mobile payment? As an iphone user i find this very narrow minded and disturbing for the future of apple. Do they really have to have their fingers in every pie and expect it to work??
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Yeah, Apple's version of NFC probably will dominate...eventually. However, the actual benefit will only be when enough retailers are using NFC that we can comfortably leave the house without a wallet. I don't see that happening for about another 10 years, so Apple's near-term NFC doesn't interest me in the slightest right now.

The NFC fanatics are being quite naive at the moment.
 
NFC would be a cool feature , while currently not the most useful putting it in an iPhone would definately pick up companies adapting to it.
Apple bought Anantec as we all know several weeks ago, this doesn't mean that it didn't already have a licensing deal in place for their fingerprint sensor which they intended to use in the Iphone5.
By the way, sounds to mocked up that all these parts have come out. Just doesn't sound right.
 
rman726 said:
I think it's kinda cool technology, but I personally am not that heartbroken over it. My Nexus 7 has it, and it came with free $10. And I have yet to use it once. My biggest problem with NFC is that I have a large collection of credit cards for rewards. My Discover Card for certain quarterly purchases, my Citi Forward for restaurants/food/movies, my Amex for grocery stores, etc... Hey, I'm a Slickdealer, it's required :D.

In the four years since I've been out of college, I've easily racked up well over $1000 in rewards, between straight up cash, gift cards, etc. No way am I giving that up for the "convenience" of swiping with my phone. At least Google Wallet has partnered with Discover to give their cashback bonuses with NFC. But until NFC can detect what kind of store I'm at, and use the appropriate card based on the type of store, and give me the right rewards. No thanks.
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from what I've gathered is that google wallet is supposed to do that anyway, it doesnt change the payment of your card just the way it interacts with the register. but I could be wrong... if any one has a good link proving or denying this i'd like to take a look at it.
 
bushman4 said:
Apple bought Anantec as we all know several weeks ago
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For a second I was thinking....why did Apple by a computer chassis maker? Don't they already have that squared away? :D (I was thinking Antec obviously)

I think you mean AuthenTec.

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verniesgarden said:
from what I've gathered is that google wallet is supposed to do that anyway, it doesnt change the payment of your card just the way it interacts with the register. but I could be wrong... if any one has a good link proving or denying this i'd like to take a look at it.
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If you could set it up to recognize certain retailers and say "use this card for all Starbucks purchases"...that would be useful.

But having to open an app w/ a password (the only way to keep it secure) and then select a card....I could open my wallet and swipe just as fast....maybe faster.
 
austinguy23 said:
Yeah, Apple's version of NFC probably will dominate...eventually. However, the actual benefit will only be when enough retailers are using NFC that we can comfortably leave the house without a wallet. I don't see that happening for about another 10 years, so Apple's near-term NFC doesn't interest me in the slightest right now.

The NFC fanatics are being quite naive at the moment.
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If MasterCard partners with Apple and offers retailers a discount for NFC transactions, the number of merchants offering NFC will explode overnight.
 
thewitt said:
If MasterCard partners with Apple and offers retailers a discount for NFC transactions, the number of merchants offering NFC will explode overnight.
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And the same will happen if MasterCard partners with Samsung. After all Samsung sells way more smart phones than Apple and those already have NFC capabilities whereas iPhone may not get them for a few more years.
 
thewitt said:
If MasterCard partners with Apple and offers retailers a discount for NFC transactions, the number of merchants offering NFC will explode overnight.
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What would be the motivation for the discount? Besides, card processors actually prefer magnetic swipes...less fraud.
 
Geckotek said:
For a second I was thinking....why did Apple by a computer chassis maker? Don't they already have that squared away? :D (I was thinking Antec obviously)

I think you mean AuthenTec.

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If you could set it up to recognize certain retailers and say "use this card for all Starbucks purchases"...that would be useful.

But having to open an app w/ a password (the only way to keep it secure) and then select a card....I could open my wallet and swipe just as fast....maybe faster.
Click to expand...

true, it's like pay at the pump is actually slower than just walking in and paying cash (if no line)
 
Geckotek said:
What would be the motivation for the discount? Besides, card processors actually prefer magnetic swipes...less fraud.
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If Apple has incorporated finger print identity checking into the phone as rumored, NFC with fingerprint validation has the potential of being virtually theft proof.

The simple motivation however is increased sales.

The easier it is to use my credit card for purchases, the more I will. It's human nature. As NFC becomes ubiquitous, the credit card processors get even richer.
 
Geckotek said:
What would be the motivation for the discount? Besides, card processors actually prefer magnetic swipes...less fraud.
Click to expand...

I've seen no data that supports less fraud with mag swipes vs NFC. Just the opposite is reported in fact, with significantly lower fraud rates where NFC technologies are deployed. Chip and pin is extremely secure in fact.

Both Visa and MasterCard offer businesses incentives today, just not yet enough for them to invest in the reader hardware.
 
They want to reserve NFC as a new feature for iPhone 5s, so it will not look like a minor update.
 
If the next gen iPhone is not going to have NFC, then I think that Passbook is going to be of limited use. Here in the UK, I've never seen any NFC payment equipment in any shops I've been in a, so at this present time I'm not bothered if the next gen iPhone doesn't have NFC for the payment side of things.

Like others, it was a reasonable enough assumption that the next gen iPhone would have NFC due to Passbook. I suppose we'll all know soon enough :)
 
T'hain Esh Kelch said:
Good good... NFC was the only thing I was looking forward to in the next iPhone, so now I can sit on my 4S for longer time.. :)
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That works out better for me, too, because you won't be clogging up the network when I order mine.

I think 4S owners should hold back and let those of us who only upgrade every other year have first crack at it.
 
Fatboy71 said:
If the next gen iPhone is not going to have NFC, then I think that Passbook is going to be of limited use. Here in the UK, I've never seen any NFC payment equipment in any shops I've been in a, so at this present time I'm not bothered if the next gen iPhone doesn't have NFC for the payment side of things.

Like others, it was a reasonable enough assumption that the next gen iPhone would have NFC due to Passbook. I suppose we'll all know soon enough :)
Click to expand...

NFC payments in the UK are commonplace. PayPass technology found on most modern debit cards can also be applied to NFC enabled mobile devices.

In central London, pretty much ALL food retailers have it (Pret, EAT, Yo Sushi etc.) and about 50% of independent newsagents and shops have contactless payments set up now.

Also, not forgetting transport. TFL are already getting set up for NFC payments using its Oyster Card system.

So yeah, at least in relatively modern cities, contactless payments are pretty old-hat.

Whether or not Apple decide now is the time for them to get involved will be revealed soon enough, but I certainly don't think this is a technology that's going to fade away. The term 'cashless society' has been floating around for years and I think it's simply the next logical progression for smaller day-to-day transactions.

Feel free to put your head in the sand and shout about how you don't like it, but sooner or later, that's going to be how you pay for things whether you like it or not!

Anyway, back to the picture - there's plenty of tech smartarses round here, so if that chip isn't NFC what IS it?!

And what of the fact it's sat right next to that 'hole' that matches almost exactly that fingerprint reader that was flagged up a week or so ago?
 
NFC isn't just exclusive to purchasing.

I tap a NFC disc in my car with my phone, this turns off WiFi and turns on Bluetooth, as I am about to leave my car I tap the disc again to turn on WiFi and turn off Blue tooth, phones with NFC can be given a whole host of commands at the tap of a disc.

I believe that Apple will have it in the next iPhone.

The stickers are quite cheap and really easy to programme.

20120829_111913.jpg
 
AnandTech said:
Given the primarily metal backside of the new iPhone, it's highly unlikely that NFC is in the cards for this generation. In fact, given the very little space at top and bottom dedicated to those glass RF windows, you can almost entirely rule it out.
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I'm not making claims one way or another about whether NFC will be included in the next iPhone, but the quote from the AnandTech article doesn't flow, logically, to the conclusion that it won't.

Yes, the back of the new iPhone is supposedly mostly made of metal.
Yes, the metal would block the NFC signal.
Yes, the glass 'RF windows' are small.

HOWEVER, the bit of kit which has been pointed out as being the NFC antenna easily fits entirely within one of those RF windows with plenty of space to spare on either side.

No, I haven't read the rest of the article, which may well include more evidence. But if that's the case, the MacRumors article should have picked a better quote.
 
thewitt said:
I've seen no data that supports less fraud with mag swipes vs NFC. Just the opposite is reported in fact, with significantly lower fraud rates where NFC technologies are deployed. Chip and pin is extremely secure in fact.

Both Visa and MasterCard offer businesses incentives today, just not yet enough for them to invest in the reader hardware.
Click to expand...

Everything I've read says otherwise. In fact, the merchant fees increase for cards that are keyed vs being swiped. This proves that swiping is preferred. Now I don't know where NFC falls into this, but everything I've read leans toward NFC being higher risk...at least for the customer. There is a greater chance of technology hacks to capture your data than with a card.

I don't see how NFC would make me use my credit card more. I use it for every transaction already. I never carry cash.

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thewitt said:
If Apple has incorporated finger print identity checking into the phone as rumored, NFC with fingerprint validation has the potential of being virtually theft proof.

The simple motivation however is increased sales.

The easier it is to use my credit card for purchases, the more I will. It's human nature. As NFC becomes ubiquitous, the credit card processors get even richer.
Click to expand...

So far we have no believable rumors that it will be in the next iPhone. In fact, it's looking more and more like we won't even have NFC, so why biometric security? I just don't see it happening this go round.

And once again, I don't see how it increase credit card usage. Cash is already annoying to use as it is. There's no need for incentives.

Edit: This article provided some information on the ISIS network that I was unaware of. This might answer some of my objections....becuase I know that Visa/MC have no real motivation to lower their rates. But if Discover pops in a processes the transactions at a lower rate.....but I'm not sure how the backend works...can Discover process transactions for Visa/MC/Amex? Won't they still pay the rates charged by those card issuers? Messy stuff to be sure...I have more research to do.

http://www.gobankingrates.com/credit/tech-giants-are-entering-the-payments-industry-with-nfc-chips/
 
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tbrinkma said:
HOWEVER, the bit of kit which has been pointed out as being the NFC antenna easily fits entirely within one of those RF windows with plenty of space to spare on either side.

No, I haven't read the rest of the article, which may well include more evidence. But if that's the case, the MacRumors article should have picked a better quote.
Click to expand...

you must have skipped the part where they explain that NFC antennas are large...and why they are that way. The chip being described as potentially NFC is too small.

Edit: not to mention, if it were an NFC antenna it wouldn't be shielded.

With this drive to size everything down, I could see where Apple could make a judgement call and not want to include a technology that will limit their drive to shrink the device further in the future. Perhaps the NFC antenna will be a limiting factor in the future.
 
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