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No PC has gone before

ok this is big, I think.

I'll be the first to admit, I have just above average knowledge of how computers work. But with the way things are being hyped, something way beyond our imagination is comming Monday.

I've read articles about, IF I recall correctly, about building processors on molecues that are a million times faster then what we see today.

Does anyone out there understand what I'm talking about...I think it was refered to as "Nano" technology.

I know it sounds crazy, but from what I remember its a technology that was already being implemented.

Any thoughts....
 
goin with tablet

personally i think today's tease just refers to the new iMac, but if we buy into the hype and take the meaning more literally than you would have to think tablet... sure there are a couple tablet pcs available but the really have yet to enter the comsumer market nForce
 
Originally posted by agreenster
Hey iapple--

The reason you are lost is because we have been flapping about all this for weeks now: Here's the basics-

The G4 has several different versions. 7400, 7450, etc. The latest one, the 7460, is called the Apollo. Many people speculated early that Apple was going to release the 7460 (basically a new G4) and call it a G5.

A G5, however, is a different chip altogether. It has a restructured pipeline and architecture and is a 64 bit chip. There are other similar chips out there, some used by SGI, but most notably, Intel's itanium. 64 bit chips are the next 'big thing.' They are much faster.
Click to expand...

Thanks for explaining! I've heard something about Motorola releasing a chip called the "G5", but this is called the MPC 8540, but this is not a CPU used for Mac (well that's what Motorola is intending anyway.) This is used by certain network machines etc. Also the MPC 8540 (which is Motorola7s "G5") does not have a Velocity Engine and this is another reason why it will not be used in Macs.
What Apple will call the "G5" is not yet clear.

The G4 used the SOI which will produce less heat, and it will be easier to include the G4 chip in Laptops etc.

This leads me to conclude that we will not be seeing a G5 for a while.
Also, if you compare the present G4 machines and a machine running the 750 FX G3 machine, the G3 machine will be quicker if not running a app using the Velocity Engine.
The G3 chip still has potential, and I think the G3/G4 lineup will continue for a while.
 
go where no pc.....

So, they've finally readied the G5 chips as neural implants? Or are they going to be used to make toasters that never make burn the bread! Ohhh.. I'm so excited.
 
Terraflop?

This might explain it. I think I saw that being tossed around when the the G5 capabilities were discussed. If they've got a chip that's now capable of terraflop (a 1.6 ghz G5? I dunno...), they'd probably consider that enough to "blow you away" and it would be somethign that "no PC has [done] before"

right? c'mon. This isn't that big of a deal. It's called MARKETING and this is gonna be about "Revolutionary" as the iPod announcement was. Don't get too excited or you'll just be dissapointed... :(
 
A tablet?

A new tablet is not "way beyond the rumors" (i think someone posted pistures the other day of an old Apple tablet) or going where no PC has gone before etc. etc.

I think everyone is thinking way to conservatively here. I'm not saying my idea, nano technology, is what where going to see. What I am saying its something truly reveolutionary.......
 
I think what you're talking about is Molecular computers. Nanotechnology refers more to little tiny robots... I think. It's early. ANYWAYS...something tells me that NO, that's not what Apple will be unveiling. That'd be something unveiled at some large world forum and would be preceded by a HUGE press from Wired, popular science, and the like, not to mention TIME, NEWSWEEK, and every major newspaper.

It's probably just a brown imac or something. ;)
 
Something Interesting...

Just checked out the AppleStore...

The puny current iMac 500mhz (most likely the first to go) has a build time of 3 days...

While the iPod and AirPort have 10 day build times... Hmmm.... Could we see iPod 2 and Airport 2.1??

I know Airport was just revamped, but we all know WEP is crap. Maybe 802.11a?

Just a thought...
 
iapple-

You're welcome. Im no IT pro, thats just what Ive gathered from browsing here and Motorola's site. They have some neat info about the "G" family on their site. I encourage anyone to check it out.
 
I think Apple is talking more about some amazing "function" the divice has, not how "fast" the chip is. I personally would love a G5. YES I would!! but is that something so REVOLUTIONARY, to Blow you away? Aiming for "speed" is what the Wintel craptacular people have done!!! We shouldn't get caught in that!
What consumers what is not "2.4Ghz" but a "divice" that you can't live without, i.e. a "digital hub" divice of somesort, that you just can't resist.

It's like saying,
Do you want a car that drives at 470 miles/hour or do you want Air conditioning?
 
Originally posted by iapple
Originally posted by guest
I don't think it's just new software, as it was last time. I agree that the design of the towers and imacs are way too old. I really think it could be that they put a G5 (or Apollo named G5) in a dodecahedron case, as someone said a couple of days ago. It would be very Steve Jobsy to introduce such a shape, don't you think? And that would definitely be a new thing. If it's just the LCD iMac there really has to be something special about it to justify the pre-expo hyping from Apple, like the modular, semi-portable imac/ibook/PDA mixture handwriting recognizing idea. I mean, there are LCD PC's out there, so just a plain LCD screen isn't really that new, right?
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is what I don't get. IS the Apollo called the G5? What IS qualified to be called a G5?
I think we are all excited about the G5, but shouldn't we be interested in the actual specs of the machine? I mean the G4 isn't THAT different to the G3 except for the Velocity Engine and stuff. WHAT are we saying equals the G5? Maybe breaking the GHz barrier will be going from G4 to G5. Maybe that's what Apple will do.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I'm going crazy with all this hype. Noone is going to be surprised unless there is a
Powermac running a G8 @ 587 Ghz!!!


-----------------
iBook 500 combo
Wanting a G5 laptop.
Trying to Think Different.
Click to expand...


The G5 is a whole new architecture from Mortorolla. It is a 64 bit processor. It is as big a change from the G4 as the original PowerPC was from the 64040. All of these people saying "it's the G5" are dreaming. The G5 is NOT ready yet. Motorolla makes two versions of its PowerPC processors - embeded and desktop. The EMBEDED G5 is ready for production. Note that embeded does not mean PDA, it might be used in DV cameras, Boradband Switches, etc. Apple is NOT Motorolla's only customer. For example, Cisco uses Motorolla's G4 in some of their routers.

Rumors are fun. If they actually make sense, it's even better.
 
NETWORKMAN!

Whats up buuuuuuuud-y?

You know, i was thinking that would be a really good idea. Id love to pop open my TiBook, launch OSX, and run any piece of Windows software.
 
chips with that?

This whole G* thing is doing round in circles a bit. Maybe this thread is coming to the end of its natural life.

The question must be for politicos out there, will Apple incorporate a G7 into their machines before the group of 7 major industrial economies (also sharing that nomenclature) incorporates Russia to beat apple to the G8?

(Just carrying on the various nonsense themes)

And just to open a small, but perfectly formed, question... Isn't Quicktime due for a refit? Would QT6 (probably being held for the QT Feb get together) fit into the old TiVo equivalent digital televisual hub rumor strand? Do we know what to expect from QT6? And will Stevo be able to resist flagging the technology of QT6 only a month before QuickTime live?

Thoughts?
 
Standard x86 emulation in OS X

Perhaps apple won't bring OSX to x86, but it will bring x86 to OSX. The latest release of Virtual PC has just been announced, maybe apple has bought Connectix and will be incorporating an x86 compatability layer to OSX, this combined with a G5 could possibly run x86 software faster than an actual x86 machine. (Speed was supposidly greatly increased in the newest version of VPC). Just a thought.

Another thought, perhaps Apple and AMD have been working on a new Apple processor. It's not as implausable as it sounds. Perhaps AMD bought Motorola's chip division, and will now be making processors for apple. At the heart of every modern x86 processor is a RISC core, there is just a portion of the processor that is deticated to the translation of x86 CISC code into RISC segments. If just switch outthe translation portion to translate into PowerPC instructions and you could have a PowerPC compatable processor built by AMD.
 
G4s are already taking over the world

Cisco did start using them in their high-end routers early last year...
 
hello

the way i see it, with windows at 93-95 percent of the market and mac os at five percent, windows could only really go down from where they are at and os x could only gain more users whether it's on a g4 or a new pc

unofortunately, my revision a ibook with 160 mb of ram is really too small for os x
 
Networkman,

I still think that porting OSX to the windows machines is not good for Apple. Apple is good because they make the hardware and software (mac and OS). Imagine what a nightmare it would be for the poor apple employees to check on an IBM, a Sony and all the other dellcrap and wintel crap to make sure that OSX works... Loads of customer complaints, problem after problem...
It would be a disaster! and people wouldn't trust Apple any more.

------
I'm sorry networkman, but I have a question that's kinda off the topic, but can you do USB printer sharing on OSX?
 
MacWorld Expo: The Broadway Musical

It's official. Jobs will come out dressed as Gandalf complete with robes and magical staff. Smoke effects and pyrotechnics will fill the stage. Dancers will jump around singing praises and ushering in a new era of computer euphoria.

Apple should consider it. THIS would surprise everybody.
 
Re: Standard x86 emulation in OS X

Originally posted by KNGPaul
Perhaps apple won't bring OSX to x86, but it will bring x86 to OSX. The latest release of Virtual PC has just been announced, maybe apple has bought Connectix and will be incorporating an x86 compatability layer to OSX, this combined with a G5 could possibly run x86 software faster than an actual x86 machine. (Speed was supposidly greatly increased in the newest version of VPC). Just a thought.

Another thought, perhaps Apple and AMD have been working on a new Apple processor. It's not as implausable as it sounds. Perhaps AMD bought Motorola's chip division, and will now be making processors for apple. At the heart of every modern x86 processor is a RISC core, there is just a portion of the processor that is deticated to the translation of x86 CISC code into RISC segments. If just switch outthe translation portion to translate into PowerPC instructions and you could have a PowerPC compatable processor built by AMD.
Click to expand...


This would be pointless. A by definition a RISC processor's machine code is identical to its microcode. By translating PowerPC machine code into AMD microcode, you have just created a cisc processor. Ignoring all of the other differences in the architecture (endianness, instruction size, registers, etc) this alone makes such a project worthless.

Reccomended reading: Structured Computer Organization, 4th Edition
by Andrew S. Tanenbaum
 
to quote i_did
The G5 is a whole new architecture from Mortorolla. It is a 64 bit processor. It is as big a change from the G4 as the original PowerPC was from the 64040.
Click to expand...


i_did, the PowerPC processor is incompatible with the Motorola 68040 (correcting your 64040). They are fast enough to emulate the 68040 at speeds equal to or greater than the fastest 68040 out there---but this is done in software. For instane, a modern x86 chip could also do this.

The PowerPC processors share a common, core instruction set. Code written for a PPC 601 will run on a G4. Similarly, such code will run on a G5 when it is released. The G5's instruction set is not incompatible with previous PowerPC processors.



blakespot
 
I dont think 'I_Did" was making an actual comparison, he was just trying to illustrate the difference of power and performnce between the different chips.

In other words, the G5 will be much faster than the G4, much like the PowerPC was much faster than the 68040. You kinda went over his head (well, at least some of ours) with your response. Its okay, because you pointed out that the G5 and G4 will be more compatible with each other than the PowerPC and 68040 was. Thats good news!

[Edited by agreenster on 01-04-2002 at 01:01 PM]
 
Originally posted by blakespot
to quote i_did
The G5 is a whole new architecture from Mortorolla. It is a 64 bit processor. It is as big a change from the G4 as the original PowerPC was from the 64040.
Click to expand...


i_did, the PowerPC processor is incompatible with the Motorola 68040 (correcting your 64040). They are fast enough to emulate the 68040 at speeds equal to or greater than the fastest 68040 out there---but this is done in software. For instane, a modern x86 chip could also do this.

The PowerPC processors share a common, core instruction set. Code written for a PPC 601 will run on a G4. Similarly, such code will run on a G5 when it is released. The G5's instruction set is not incompatible with previous PowerPC processors.



blakespot
Click to expand...

Actually, the G5 will have two modes. A 32-bit compatibility mode and a native 64-bit mode. AMD's 64-bit processors will also use this dual mode system. The Itanium will use software emulation for 32-bit apps.

The G5's native instruction set will be incompatible with the G4's. In this case, Motorolla decided to use hardware emulation rather than software emulation. There will be a speed hit for running 32-bit code.

I'm doing research on 64-bit processors as part of a project between the Honors College and the Computer Science department. Motorolla has dragged its ass on sending me an NDA, so I don't have any "real" evidence yet. All of my information comes from public sources and Apple is making Motorolla keep quiet on this one. Once I do have the information, I won't be able to share it any more. I can't even publish my report until the G5 is released. But I can tell you this: the G5 has been in development since before the first PowerMac G4 shipped and we WILL be seeing it this year.
 
My Gues.. Quad



Think about it.

- No PC (Personal Computers) Have had them
- It is "way beyond" rumor sites (since they are talking dual)
- It would get get Steve up to 4 GHz (4 x 1 GHz)
- Motorola is certainly not going to release anything to suprising but OS X can take advantage of
multiprocessor

So... my predictions:

- All laptops get boosts
- iPod gets boosts (new iTunes, release)
- X goes 10.1.3
- Flat screen iMac
- ALL iMacs get at least 800 Mhz G3s
- PowerMacs at 1 Ghz (fast), 2 x 1 GHz (faster), 4 x 1 GHz (fastest).

Steve does a demo of one of those babies flying beating a Pentium 4 2.2 GHz by more than 10 times.

Ahh... the dreams.

BZ
 
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