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Nokia had most of the market share back in the day but they stopped innovating and were lively off their monopoly. Now instead of trying to get to the same level as Apple & Google, they are trying to bring Apple down to their level.

Apple owes them nothing.

Nokia is still the largest mobile phone manufacturer by a huge margin. It's larger than the 2nd and 3rd together. It hasn't lost market share.

Apple needs to pay for the essential patents they're using in iphone. There're is just no way around it. It gets all the time more strange that they didn't pay up in the beginning.

To get some other facts straight, Nokia did approach Apple already in 2007 when first iphone was launched, offering them the same fair and non-discriminating terms everyone else in the industry uses.
 
Okay, I could understand when the filed suit the first time, nothing that isn't typical for people suing Apple, but now Nokia is adding devices that don't even apply to them in the suit. What the hell does the Mac have to do with what your business entails which is making cellular devices??

As I pointed out above in post #24, this is NOT an extension to the first suit.

It is a end run attempt, bypassing the courts and going to the ITC, who has the power to make binding decisions on its own. It can even ban imports of offending devices... and has done so in the past.

Apple has far more to lose with a USA import ban than Nokia would.

kdarling said:
This is a very clever move. There is the potential of banning all Apple products manufactured overseas, from entering the USA.
Which will happen on the 15th of Never.

Everyone naively thought the same thing in 2007 when the ITC banned import of all CDMA handsets.

Neither the courts nor the president acted to dismiss the ban, either.
 
This nails it:

"In contrast, Nokia made a different business decision and remained focused on traditional mobile wireless handsets with conventional user interfaces. As a result, Nokia has rapidly lost share in the market for high-end mobile phones. Nokia has admitted that as a result of the iPhone launch, 'the market changed suddenly and [Nokia was] not fast enough changing with it.' (citation)...In response, Nokia chose to copy the iPhone, especially its...patented design and user interface."

http://www.betanews.com/article/App...-E71-S60-Carbide-C-violate-patents/1260559533
 
Not all Nokia handsets are made in Finland any more.

Sadly, the top quality Made In Finland phones are a very small fraction. Nokia only produces prototypes and top of the line gear in Finland, because it is so much cheaper to have a factory anywhere else. You can't sell cheapo phones if cost of manufacturing one is high...
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 1.6; en-us; Archos5 Build/Donut) AppleWebKit/528.5+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Mobile Safari/525.20.1)

Wow. Where will all this end up?

I tink that one of the pioneers of modern telecommunication want what they deserve.

(Cue cries of "Nokia fanboy")

Without Nokia (and the others involved in the development of gsm technology), you wouldn't have an iPhone.

That's right -- that's why pioneers in a field like this pool their patents into international standards in order to help encourage interoperable technologies and products.

As a pioneer, Nokia pooled it's patents, making them open for fair, non-discriminatory licensing at the same fair, reasonable rates for everyone. This is standard practice.

However, Nokia suddenly decided that Apple isnot part of the "everyone" who may license the pooled standards patents at the same non-discriminatory rates as everyone else. Nokia wants to discriminate against Apple alone (because they are successful presumably) and charge them THREE TIMES the going rate.

Oh, it doesn't stop there: suddenly they demand that Apple allow free use of Apple's own patented technologies as well! What cheek! These are private Apple patents that NEVER were part of any pooled standards put into the pot for everyone to license. Apple has not opened them up to anyone -- so it is not discriminating against Nokia.

Nokia has been the aggressor -- suddenly changing terms that were already established (and changing them for Apple alone). Apple has responded by pointing out the private patents that Nokia has violated -- over which Apple had previously been silent.

Who is the bad guy here?
 
Why buy what you can't use?

Maybe Apple should just wait for Nokia's stock price to fall some more, then buy a controlling share of the companies stock.

But it would look bad to own a cell phone company but have a third party produce the iPhone because an Apple Nokia couldn't make that high of a tech item.
 
The fanboy drivel runs thick and fast in this thread. No-one here seems to know the fine details of the case and yet all the negativity is attributed to Nokia. That is the very definition of blind faith there. Knee jerk reactions based on the notion that one involved party can do no wrong. It's lazy thinking, closed minded, and just downright ugly.

If you have nothing to add to the discussion than "Apple good, Nokia bad" then don't post at all. Read the thread, move on and then maybe we all might learn something instead of having to wade through pages and pages of **** to get to the real facts.

I could probably make this post in a huge number of threads here.
 
Apple needs to pay for the essential patents they're using in iphone. There're is just no way around it. It gets all the time more strange that they didn't pay up in the beginning.

To get some other facts straight, Nokia did approach Apple already in 2007 when first iphone was launched, offering them the same fair and non-discriminating terms everyone else in the industry uses.

Apple is alleging that Nokia wants access to Apple's patents as well as the royalties. That doesn't exactly seem like "the same fair and non-discriminating terms that everyone else in the industry uses".

Nothing I have seen says that Apple has ever disputed what Nokia is due financially.
 
Conspiracy Theory...

Did I not just recently read that Nokia and Microsoft were doing business together? Apple just passed WinCE in Market Share, Microsoft is not mentioned in any of the lawsuits (for now), Balmer is sneaky... Just to add some fuel to the thread:)
 
Hmmm... maybe it's time to leave the iCrap iToys behind and get back to the business of making REALLY cutting edge desktop computers with Blu-ray for starters.

But then, that would just be the logical long-range course of action.

Not the short-range quest for the next iCrap iGadget FAD.

:apple:

Apple is in business for one reason and that is profit. There is more profit to be made with the iDevices then desktop computers. If Apple had never entered the iPod/iPhone market it would not the profit maker it is today.

You can see there is not much focus on the Mac Pro anymore. Other then the iMac, Apple doesn't really care much about the desktop market anymore.
 
That's right -- that's why pioneers in a field like this pool their patents into international standards in order to help encourage interoperable technologies and products.

As a pioneer, Nokia pooled it's patents, making them open for fair, non-discriminatory licensing at the same fair, reasonable rates for everyone. This is standard practice.

However, Nokia suddenly decided that Apple isnot part of the "everyone" who may license the pooled standards patents at the same non-discriminatory rates as everyone else. Nokia wants to discriminate against Apple alone (because they are successful presumably) and charge them THREE TIMES the going rate.

Oh, it doesn't stop there: suddenly they demand that Apple allow free use of Apple's own patented technologies as well! What cheek! These are private Apple patents that NEVER were part of any pooled standards put into the pot for everyone to license. Apple has not opened them up to anyone -- so it is not discriminating against Nokia.

Nokia has been the aggressor -- suddenly changing terms that were already established (and changing them for Apple alone). Apple has responded by pointing out the private patents that Nokia has violated -- over which Apple had previously been silent.

Who is the bad guy here?

You don't know any of this. You don't know what rates Apple were paying, you don't know what the rates were that were considered Fair. Nokia has gone to the courts to let them decide.
 
No Nokia in the US, hope others follow

As I pointed out above in post #24, this is NOT an extension to the first suit.

It is a end run attempt, bypassing the courts and going to the ITC, who has the power to make binding decisions on its own. It can even ban imports of offending devices... and has done so in the past.

Apple has far more to lose with a USA import ban than Nokia would.



Everyone naively thought the same thing in 2007 when the ITC banned import of all CDMA handsets.

Neither the courts nor the president acted to dismiss the ban, either.

Because Nokia is a small player in the US & Nokia's handsets are behind everyone else's handsets, it just shows that the US is ahead of the rest of the world in not having to suffer through Nokia's old tech/none tech hardware.
 
Apple is alleging that Nokia wants access to Apple's patents as well as the royalties. That doesn't exactly seem like "the same fair and non-discriminating terms that everyone else in the industry uses".

Nothing I have seen says that Apple has ever disputed what Nokia is due financially.


This is not true. Read the Apple counter suit. They clearly, although not in a straight forward way, state that Nokia offered them compensation deal based on monetary basis only. In fact Nokia offered such deal twice, in the beginning of the process in 2007 and before filing the suit earlier this year.
 
Nokia is still the largest mobile phone manufacturer by a huge margin. It's larger than the 2nd and 3rd together. It hasn't lost market share.

Apple needs to pay for the essential patents they're using in iphone. There're is just no way around it. It gets all the time more strange that they didn't pay up in the beginning.

To get some other facts straight, Nokia did approach Apple already in 2007 when first iphone was launched, offering them the same fair and non-discriminating terms everyone else in the industry uses.

so since you are so smart, explain why nokia now adds some more patents in a second step if it all was talked about for years already.

oh, and some % of the phone price might be fair when it is a phone, but when it gets a smartphone mobile computer, computer, that % should get lower, to stay absolutely about the same value.
Imagine car manufacturers would think it is a good thing to better integrate phones into their cars, for safety and comfort, and then they would still need to pay that same %, … do you still think that this is fair and non-discriminating terms???
 
The only things that I dislike about Apple are the fanboys. How stupid and blind can you people really be?
 
Nokia, the NEW PSYSTAR! :(

How do we know Apple is using Nokia's patented ideas? I mean, Apple has a boatload of patents, why can't they say, "see in this patent is where we take this technology from" and not from anything Nokia came up with?!

Otherwise, how many patents has Nokia abused of Apple's technology?

Apple, Bring It! :apple:

If I had a Nokia product to trash, I'd do it! Now Nokia is on my no fly list! :D
 
Patents aren't bad, they were recognized as important to entrepreneurs to benefit from their ideas at the founding of this country over 200 years ago.

if used correctly, no Patents, trademarks and copyright are not bad.

the trouble is abuse. allowing folks to file in areas where neither party is located, in order to pick a court that 99% of the time sides with the 'accusing' party. allowing patents on mere ideas. allowing law suits on patents never actually used for a product by the 'offended' party especially when the offense has been going on for 5-7 years already and no one said a word.

these are the things that muck up the system.
 
Why have NOKIA suddenly decided all these patents are so important now, two and a half years after the first iPhone was launched…?

It seems obvious to me why have left it so late to file against NOKIA. Because Apple was never interested in suing NOKIA in the first place. Apple are just using their patents to defend themselves.

In short Apple to me they seem far more concerned about competing in the marketplace than the courtroom. NOKIA, well their motives seem less clear cut.

No doubt this statement will be construed as being in someone controversial and worthy of debate. To be it's obvious to anyone with a fair mind.
 
One of the items Apple is claiming patent infringement on;

Carbide C++ (because it's developed in an environment that enables the compiler to generate a GUI)

If Nokia could lose the ability to 'compile a GUI' then it could well explain this sudden attempted knock-out punch.
 
The Nokia iPhone, Nokia Snow Leopard and Nokia MacBook

This thread is full of moronistic fanboyism. Apple will pay in the end, you guys are just too stupid to realise what's going on.

What eloquence! Glad you joined the conversation.

As has been mentioned, what is most interesting is Nokia's timing. "...oh, by the way, Apple stole everything, not just something..." Yeah, very convincing, Nokia! Had that been the case, Nokia would have some really nice phones but instead their own product line is their own demise- in court and in competition.

I think I'm going to wait for an ice storm to hit Cupertino then slip and fall when walking by 1 Infinity Loop. :confused:
I got nothing better to do and nothing better to offer so that, my friend, is my best bet to get a piece of the Apple. Nokia is just betting the same way. Fortunately for them- they don't have to wait for an ice storm in sunny California!
 
Hmmm... maybe it's time to leave the iCrap iToys behind and get back to the business of making REALLY cutting edge desktop computers with Blu-ray for starters.

But then, that would just be the logical long-range course of action.

Not the short-range quest for the next iCrap iGadget FAD.

:apple:

Because, clearly, Apple hasn't made a fortune selling such gadgets.

It's a good thing you aren't in Apple's idea team -- chances are they would have tanked after you convinced them to not make the iPod.
 
This is not true. Read the Apple counter suit. They clearly, although not in a straight forward way, state that Nokia offered them compensation deal based on monetary basis only. In fact Nokia offered such deal twice, in the beginning of the process in 2007 and before filing the suit earlier this year.

That is not how I read it. And that is clearly not what it is about now.
 
Credit Where Credit is Due

I've been following this for awhile (like many of you) and the latest claim by nokia seems a bit ridiculous - are the ITC going to rule against an American company in the home of capitalism?? And it seems like both parties are blowing smoke now.

But I do agree that apple should pay a fair amount if found they do infringe on the GSM technology patents, as from what I've read from previous posts/articles the rest of the mobile industry are paying nokia for use of thier GSM tech, why are apple so special in not paying?!

But what annoys me most is that Nokia think in reperation for any infringement on Apple's part they should have access to iPhone patents when at best they should recieve and fair compensation package i.e. a wedge of dollar.
 
And you have to wonder why Nokia didn't use their own patented ideas, if they are so wonderful, to come out with any innovative products themselves!

They did. For years they have been using their patents on low power GSM integration in their handsets. Almost every company that makes a GSM phone uses the same technology. Just because this patent is older, doesn't make is any less valid. Other companies have been paying Nokia their fair share, why hasn't Apple?

Apple and a few other tech giants seem to think that they are untouchable in the legal system because of cash flow. That ongoing childish battle with Apple Corps. in which Apple Computer finally won and then became Apple Co. is a good example.

For years MS operated this way and they are living in the bed they made. The latest injunction over MS Word shows the futility. If Apple wants to smear Nokia as these private legal battles become public, that is their prerogative.

I doubt very much that Nokia is doing this to make a profit. If Nokia is doing as poorly as everyone claims, and Apple is doing as well as everyone claims; it would seem like a futile uphill struggle to continue for the underdog.

If Apple wants to continue to ignore Patents that they are using and not paying for, I hope they get what is coming to them. Same goes for Nokia, SE, DELL, Palm, Moto and the rest.

The Finns gave us the first GSM phone call almost 20 years ago. You have a lot to thank them for. The very fact that Nokia still manufactures phones in Finnland, is AWESOME. I would die if I could buy a quality computer made in the USA still.
 
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