Nokia Increases Scope of Patent Complaints to Include 'Virtually All' Apple Products

[sjo]

It gets better. Apple outlines the nature of Nokia's potentially illegal strong-arm tactics. ( Apple specifically claims Nokia to be unlawful in article 84)

From Apple's counter-claim;

Article 81. In Particular, in or about the spring of 2008, Nokia demanded that, as part of it’s compensation for licensing Nokia’s portfolio of purported essential patents, Apple must grant Nokia a license to a particular number of Apple non-standards-essential patents...Apple immediately rejected the proposal and reiterated Apple’s position that Nokia’s F/RAND obligations required it to licence Nokia’s purportedly essential technologies.

Article 82. ...In or about May 2009, Nokia demanded a royalty approximately three times as much as the royalty proposed the prior spring, which was itself in excess of a F/RAND rate, as well as “picks’ to Apple’s non-standards-essential patents.

Nokia have been very naughty.

You conveniently leave out the parts were Apple tells that Nokia offered (at least twice, in the outset of the process and before filing their claim) a licensing based on monetary compensation only.

This is what makes me sick about fanboyism on this site, spreading lies and misinformation on purpose.

 

[surferfromuk]

You conveniently leave out the parts were Apple tells that Nokia offered (at least twice, in the outset of the process and before filing their claim) a licensing based on monetary compensation only.

This is what makes me sick about fanboyism on this site, spreading lies and misinformation on purpose.

post it then - let it stand....I can't basically post two entire 79 page suits can I.

how about;

Article 121. Apple is entitled to a declaratory judgment that Nokia has not to date offered it a license on F/RAND terms

that's Apple requesting what Nokia would not give!

However it's potentially irrelevant since the scope and nature of Nokia's anti-trust illegal enforcement may well result in this ;

Article 128. Nokia’s false representations to SSOs that it would license the patents it declared essential, including the patents-in-suit, on F/RAND terms and Nokia’s assertion of its wrongly obtained monopoly power against Apple constitutes patent misuse and renders the patents unenforceable.

 

[cmaier]

You conveniently leave out the parts were Apple tells that Nokia offered (at least twice, in the outset of the process and before filing their claim) a licensing based on monetary compensation only.

This is what makes me sick about fanboyism on this site, spreading lies and misinformation on purpose.

Nokia, in paragraph 44 of its complaint, says that all the offers it made to apple were subject to reciprocity.

 

[KnightWRX]

And you have to be really stupid to believe the crud your shovelling. The n900 has been available for about a whole week. At best they'll get 6 months lead time with a higher res display and camera. Thing is dozens of other phones have had higher res cameras and screens, they've not really turned out to be iPhone killers.

The most important thing about the iPhone is not a bullet point spec list, that's all the n900 has, and a second rate os to boot.

That goes double for the meamo tablets. They took a perfectly good linux and butchered i into a windows tablet edition b'stard offspring.

Second rate OS ? It's a full Linux distribution, with everything but the kitchen sink. Now who's being stupid ? Have you even ever used Maemo ?

Maemo is essentially Debian, with full apt-get, repositories, X, the whole she-bang. No jailbreaking or rooting your phone either, just a simple gnome-terminal and you type sudo gain-root on the command line.

Not to mention a big portion of the SDK is just pure GTK+, supports the same OpenGL ES 2.0 as the iPhone.

Maemo is far from second rate and the N900 has been available for what has now been 2 months, not a week. Maemo is also the same OS that is used on the tablets, like the N810. These have been available for quite some time, the N900 is just a smaller form factor tablet with a phone integrated in it.

And you forgot the most important points the N900 has :

- Upgradeable storage. The phone comes 16 Gig built-in, and you can put in SD cards for another 32 Gigs, so 48 Gigs top. But you can always have a few cards with you making it virtually limitless.
- Changeable battery! Wow, what a concept

And yes, the specs are important. Well at least, when the iPhone is concerned and wins, specs sure to get mentionned a lot.

The rest of my points were still very valid and far from stupid. Apple is behind Nokia in worldwide market share. Nokia does seem to know a few things about selling phones if you ask me, they aren't just playing catch-up.

Seriously, if you guys want to defend Apple, at least don't lie about Nokia. This suit is very much about shades of grey. Apple is not in the right, Nokia is not in the right and that is why they are going in front of a judge, because 2 years of negotiations didn't manage to resolve the issue between them.

 

[kernkraft]

How clever!

Nokia are Losers and Losers use Nokia

Also, only idiots would say something like that!

 

[MorphingDragon]

This is ridiculous Nokia. I hope that Sony Erricson comes down on their fiery chariot and sues you into oblivion.

Yes Sony has more dirt than Nokia.

Second rate OS ? It's a full Linux distribution, with everything but the kitchen sink. Now who's being stupid ? Have you even ever used Maemo ?

Maemo is essentially Debian, with full apt-get, repositories, X, the whole she-bang. No jailbreaking or rooting your phone either, just a simple gnome-terminal and you type sudo gain-root on the command line.

Not to mention a big portion of the SDK is just pure GTK+, supports the same OpenGL ES 2.0 as the iPhone.

Maemo is far from second rate and the N900 has been available for what has now been 2 months, not a week. Maemo is also the same OS that is used on the tablets, like the N810. These have been available for quite some time, the N900 is just a smaller form factor tablet with a phone integrated in it.

And you forgot the most important points the N900 has :

- Upgradeable storage. The phone comes 16 Gig built-in, and you can put in SD cards for another 32 Gigs, so 48 Gigs top. But you can always have a few cards with you making it virtually limitless.
- Changeable battery! Wow, what a concept

And yes, the specs are important. Well at least, when the iPhone is concerned and wins, specs sure to get mentionned a lot.

The rest of my points were still very valid and far from stupid. Apple is behind Nokia in worldwide market share. Nokia does seem to know a few things about selling phones if you ask me, they aren't just playing catch-up.

Seriously, if you guys want to defend Apple, at least don't lie about Nokia. This suit is very much about shades of grey. Apple is not in the right, Nokia is not in the right and that is why they are going in front of a judge, because 2 years of negotiations didn't manage to resolve the issue between them.

GTK, why wouldn't they use QT, the far superior technology AND TECHNOLOGY THAT THEY OWN.

Seriously GTK? It makes an entire distribution look like it was made by mattel.

 

[Serelus]

very nice written, but it was not the answer to my question.
if it was all in negotiation for some time, why didn't they mention all the affected patents from the beginning when filing a suit.

Hahah, yes this is what I've been wondering too, while browsing through this thread.

 

[aristotle]

the basis of the GSM suit is well founded and is 100% in Nokia's favour. Apple even come close to admitting it.

I just don't know why Apple won't pay the same dues as everyone else..?

the rest of it I don't really know.

I don't think anyone is saying that Nokia does not have a right to payments but they are trying to charge 3 times the prescribed rates charged everyone else and it is possible that Apple was either willing or had already paid the normal prescribed licensing rates for the GSM technology.

Nokia not only wants more money but they want Apple cross license their patents. That is highway robbery.

 

[cumanzor]

Second rate OS ? It's a full Linux distribution, with everything but the kitchen sink. Now who's being stupid ? Have you even ever used Maemo ?
<snip>

Agreed. The iPhone is a great device, honestly, but saying that the N900 is a POS just to defend another device is just...... childish and completely unfounded.

Too bad it's way to expensive I'd like some Debian and some APT love in my pocket

GTK, why wouldn't they use QT, the far superior technology AND TECHNOLOGY THAT THEY OWN.

Seriously GTK? It makes an entire distribution look like it was made by mattel.

Agreed, well partly. QT is far far easier to work with, but GTK doesn't really have that toy-look you are talking about.

 

[ArrowSmith]

AAPL is in big trouble here. MSFT just lost a patent infringement suit and AAPL is next! Meow!

 

[KnightWRX]

GTK, why wouldn't they use QT, the far superior technology AND TECHNOLOGY THAT THEY OWN.

Seriously GTK? It makes an entire distribution look like it was made by mattel.

You mean why didn't they use Qtopia ? The mobile technology they have had for years and licensed to others ?

Probably because the wealth of easy to port GTK apps gives Maemo a tons of software and at first, Maemo was about tablets, not mobile phones. Qtopia is very much a phone technology.

 

[cmaier]

You mean why didn't they use Qtopia ? The mobile technology they have had for years and licensed to others ?

Probably because the wealth of easy to port GTK apps gives Maemo a tons of software and at first, Maemo was about tablets, not mobile phones. Qtopia is very much a phone technology.

http://qt.nokia.com/

 

[MorphingDragon]

You mean why didn't they use Qtopia ? The mobile technology they have had for years and licensed to others ?

Probably because the wealth of easy to port GTK apps gives Maemo a tons of software and at first, Maemo was about tablets, not mobile phones. Qtopia is very much a phone technology.

Nope, for tablets QT.

The irony of that sentence is, that in the Linux world. The same Apps are used anyway.

 

[aegisdesign]

If Nokia had all these patents in place, all of which they claim are what makes the iPhone the phone that it is, why didn't Nokia bring out their own "iPhone" long before Apple did?

None of the patents in this dispute have anything to do with what makes an iPhone and iPhone in most people's eyes with exception maybe of a single patent relating to swiping a screen to flip to another screen like on the iPhone's home screen. I don't know of a single Nokia phone that actually uses that gesture so why Apple are pursuing that, I have no idea. Maybe the N900 does although Apple seem to like citing the E71 in their lawsuit.

On the other hand, the LG GW520 one of the kids got for Christmas uses Apple gestures all over the place and even comes with a cute Leopard print background. Go sue LG and the other UI rippoff merchants Apple after paying Nokia for doing the hard work on the underlying telecom technology in your phone.

 

[KnightWRX]

http://qt.nokia.com/

Nope, for tablets QT.

The irony of that sentence is, that in the Linux world. The same Apps are used anyway.

I know of QT. QT doesn't make much sense for Maemo. Gnome is much more dominant right now and as been for the last 2 years with the KDE 4 debacle and there has always been many more GTK+ apps than QT apps, which in turn means more developpers who already know the API.

Qtopia would've made sense if Maemo would've been phone technology from day 1, pure QT ? Not so much.

 

[dukebound85]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 1.6; en-us; Archos5 Build/Donut) AppleWebKit/528.5+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Mobile Safari/525.20.1)

Wow. Where will all this end up?

I tink that one of the pioneers of modern telecommunication want what they deserve.

(Cue cries of "Nokia fanboy")

Without Nokia (and the others involved in the development of gsm technology), you wouldn't have an iPhone.

no kidding


i love how its ok for apple to steal ideas from others but god forbid if someone takes apples

last i saw, nokia has been in the phone industry muuuuc longer than apple

 

[kzin]

With a bit of luck cooler heads at Nokia will intervene and they'll ask a reasonable price for the rights to the GSM patent stack.

They already did. Apple refused to pay the same reasonable price that Nokia asks from everyone else. Thus the lawsuit.

Nokia must be scared by the success of the iPhone.

Or they just want to get paid for all of that innovation they did, for which they rightfully deserve to be compensated, and that Apple is refusing to pay for.

 

[aegisdesign]

"73. Even if Apple were to subsequently pay past due F/RAND royalites, it would still enjoy a market share it otherwise would not have but for the period of “free riding.” Nokia would likewise lose its portion of the market share for the period of the “free riding.” Due to the difficulty in predicting whether, if at all, such market share can be recovered, Nokia’s harm cannot be compensated by payment of past due F/RAND royalties alone."


So if Apple had been paying the royalites from the beginning, thier market share would be different now?

HOW SO?

Apple's share would be less (in theory according to Nokia) because they've have to charge more for the iPhone to pay the licences. By not paying the licence fees, Apple can sell the iPhone for less unlike other licencees or companies such as Nokia who have invested billions in R&D for the features that Apple is free riding on.

I don't think Nokia are necessarily right as the iPhone is already way more expensive than the competition but perhaps Apple's profits would not be so high or there would be less carriers willing to subsidise so heavily. So, there's some logic there.

 

[cmaier]

They already did. Apple refused to pay the same reasonable price that Nokia asks from everyone else. Thus the lawsuit.

Not according to what Nokia plead in their complaint. They asked for reciprocity from the get-go according to paragraph 44.

 

[alexhasfun28]

Uh-Oh! Nokia is DOOMED!

Maybe they should of just kept their mouth shuts, instead of risking their patents and possibly the company.

 

[koobcamuk]

apple's going to do the same on them, let's see who wins...
instead of that they could try to make some good phones as they used to do
Since i was a kid i've been having nokia handsets and they worked fine... as a phone! then iphone came out and changed what a good phone is.
The good thing is that if nokia or google or any other make better machines, apple will have to keep up!

Every single other handset I still own, holds signal better than the iPhone. I don't know if it's hardware or software, but it surely is not the network as any other phone is just fine.

iPhone sucks at being a phone - it's good for little apps and things to keep the middle classes from being bored.

 

[kzin]

You mean why didn't they use Qtopia ? The mobile technology they have had for years and licensed to others ?

Probably because the wealth of easy to port GTK apps gives Maemo a tons of software and at first, Maemo was about tablets, not mobile phones. Qtopia is very much a phone technology.

Nokia hasn't had QT for years (less than 2, but I think it's closer to 1). They just bought Trolltech relatively recently.

And, Maemo isn't a "was", it's an "is". The N900 is already being distributed to early adopters, and is a Maemo phone. Maemo was always designed with the plan to eventually be used on phones. Nokia said so from early on, calling it a 5 phase plan (of which the N900 is phase 4). So, even though it was prototyped and developed using tablets, it was always about phones.

Why they decided to switch from GTK to QT isn't clear to me though. Possibly because QT is more cross platform? That's about the only thing I can think of.

 

[KnightWRX]

Uh-Oh! Nokia is DOOMED!

Maybe they should of just kept their mouth shuts, instead of risking their patents and possibly the company.

Are you also going to post the following in the Psystar thread :

Uh-Oh! Apple is DOOMED!

Maybe they should of just kept their mouth shuts, instead of risking their license and possibly the company.

Makes about as much sense.

 

[adztaylor]

Oh no, will someone please protect Steve Jobs from all this nastiness that's going on. Something non-Apple is trying to affect everything the great master has done. We need to wrap him up in cotton wool.

 

[Goona]

Nokia is still the largest mobile phone manufacturer by a huge margin. It's larger than the 2nd and 3rd together. It hasn't lost market share.

Apple needs to pay for the essential patents they're using in iphone. There're is just no way around it. It gets all the time more strange that they didn't pay up in the beginning.

To get some other facts straight, Nokia did approach Apple already in 2007 when first iphone was launched, offering them the same fair and non-discriminating terms everyone else in the industry uses.

You know this because? I'm sure you were privy to the meetings between Apple and Nokia.