North Dakota Senate Shoots Down App Store Bill Apple Said Would 'Destroy the iPhone'

[Alan Wynn]

Would you also say the United States v. Microsoft Corp. was unconstitutional taking of Microsoft's property?

Actually, I thought the ruling was stupid and did not really change anything nor, in the end, benefit the consumer.

Apple has about 50% marketshare in the US.

Microsoft had between 93% and 97% of the desktop OS market, and more of the Desktop productivity market. Microsoft got there with deals that required companies to pay Microsoft for a copy of Windows for every machine they sold, even if they not include one. Apple has seen an increase in market share because of consumer demand. People choose their ecosystem for a large part because of the safety, security and privacy they offer.

No one is forced to buy Apple products. Every carrier sells Android phone and often gives them away. Apple’s products have industry leading customer satisfaction numbers, again, largely because of their ecosystem and the choices they have made.

 

[eoblaed]

Common sense out of North Dakota.

Well done.

 

[ksec]

Because this is about my property, not McDonald's or Apple's property.

A proper analogy would be if you bought a new home from a builder and were told that it could only be furnished with items from a store that the builder owns. That would make absolutely no sense - it's your home and you can furnish it with items from whatever store you want.

Apple built a phone and they sold it to me. It should now be my right to put whatever apps I'd like on it, from wherever I want.

Starting to think if Apple will simply "rent" an iPhone that uses the App Store. Or If you want "Buy" an iPhone that gets you the option to install things you want.

I really wish Steve is alive and well in this era. Tim Cook doesn't have the wisdom to balance this issue out. Actually it wasn't a problem much before the Services Strategy kicks in.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Actually, that is exactly what Epic wants. They want Apple to host a third party App Store within the App Store. Go read their complaint.

Why can't Epic just send people to their website to buy VBucks?

That's how Amazon got around it. You can't buy digital books inside the Kindle app... you must go to the web.

Epic could make vbucks.epicgames.com or something. And you can still buy Vbucks gift cards at Walgreens.

But Epic decided to raise a big stink and ended up getting themselves kicked off Apple's platform. Good job.

 

[jdb8167]

Why can't Epic just send people to their website to buy VBucks?

That's how Amazon got around it. You can't buy digital books inside the Kindle app... you must go to the web.

Epic could make vbucks.epicgames.com or something. And you can still buy Vbucks gift cards at Walgreens.

But Epic decided to raise a big stink and ended up getting themselves kicked off Apple's platform. Good job.

They wouldn't be allowed to list that URL in their games. Other than that, nothing.

 

[Michael Scrip]

They wouldn't be allowed to list that URL in their games. Other than that, nothing.

Ah right... no direct links allowed.

Well I think the Fortnite kiddies could figure it out...

Like I said earlier... they can already buy Fortnite gift cards in physical stores. They obviously know how to add VBucks to their online account.

I dunno. It just seems like Epic could have gone about this another way... instead of burning their relationship with Apple.

Remember... Epic was on-stage with Apple at the iPad introduction over a decade ago. Epic obviously didn't have a problem with App Store policies back then!

 

[Homme]

Apple does not prevent you from buying Android. That is the more accurate analogy.

Actually, that is exactly what Epic wants. They want Apple to host a third party App Store within the App Store. Go read their complaint.

exactly. Despite the fact that Epic doesn’t have a phone, platforms like iOS etc etc they think they have the right to penetrate into apples ecosystem all in the name of having they’re store onto the platform which is not up to them, if Apple wanted to have this and sideloading 3rd party apps then it’s up to them, they’re platforms not epics

 

[gnasher729]

so now we learn that it wasn’t North Dakota behind this, but TenCent, a $750bn Chinese company.

 

[emulator]

This news brought out the best from the apple fanboys in this thread. "Epic go away". So fun to read how much people are out of touch with reality and obsessed with epic games.

 

[gnasher729]

Consumers don’t face devastating charges from Apple for apps. They face devastating charges from app developers who exploit IAP and those who force play to win apps.

I assume it was a spelling mistake, and you mean ”pay to win” apps. “Play to win” is fine.

 

[biffuz]

"undermine the privacy, security, safety, and performance". Selling guns in supermarkets instead is perfectly safe

 

[Abazigal]

Why can't Epic just send people to their website to buy VBucks?

That's how Amazon got around it. You can't buy digital books inside the Kindle app... you must go to the web.

Epic could make vbucks.epicgames.com or something. And you can still buy Vbucks gift cards at Walgreens.

But Epic decided to raise a big stink and ended up getting themselves kicked off Apple's platform. Good job.

I believe that would take away a lot of the spontaneity of IAPs. By the time I navigate away from the app to a website, and still have to log in and key in my payment details, a lot of the initial urge of wanting to buy extra credits would have evaporated.

Epic basically wants their cake and to be able to eat it too. They know there is no easier way of getting people to spend on IAPs then within the app itself, yet want to keep 100% of the profits for themselves despite this being a purely digital good with zero marginal cost (so each sale is pure profit).

I am glad it’s Epic fronting this campaign, because their actions are killing off whatever goodwill they may have had bit by bit.

And when Epic loses, Apple is well within their rights to use their legal victory as evidence of their unassailable authority over the App Store, and there is really no more need for them to try and play nice with developers.

Wouldn’t that be the most tragic of ironies?

 

[iCole]

Imagine being so dense that you don’t want any other option to buy software on your phone. Who cares if it’s epic pushing this.

 

[lowendlinux]

It’s not a perfect system, but I maintain that the current App Store model is crucial for maintaining the vitality and viability of the App Store, which is in itself a net positive for the mass majority of iOS users.

I don’t think that locking down macOS would be catastrophic. I hear some arguments that an open platform is necessary to developing new software, and that’s a compromise I am willing to make. That the heaviness of the Mac is what allows iOS to be as lightweight as it is.

The two can absolutely exist in a symbiotic relationship of sorts.

Epic and their ilk will find themselves on the wrong side of history.

I disagree someone is going to break the app store and probably in Europe first. The Apple app store has value, maybe less now than in the past so it will be the default but it will be monopoly on the platform will be broken.

 

[Sputman99]

Epic loses again 🤣

#EpicFail

 

[Glideslope]

Unfortunately, not only in the US...

Absolutely.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Imagine being so dense that you don’t want any other option to buy software on your phone. Who cares if it’s epic pushing this.

While I see your point... I wonder how many developers would go the alternate route?

We know Epic wants to. And they have all the infrastructure to run their own store and accept payments, handle user accounts, etc. Most big corporations do.

But would a small indie developer bother with all that?

Sure... there's a potential to make more money if Apple isn't taking a percentage of each sale. But what if people don't want to go to various app stores or websites to hunt for apps? And you end up selling fewer apps?

And now you're on the hook to handle your own hosting, payment processing, international taxes, customer databases, etc. Seems like a lot to deal with. And it could be expensive.

Yes... current App Store policies state that you must use Apple's store and Apple takes a percentage from each sale. But they provide a lot of services in exchange for that fee. Here's a big list of things Apple offers their developers:

LINK

BTW... has the new 15% policy had any major effects on developer relations? I know it only applies to smaller developers with revenue less than $1,000,000 in a year. But it still sounds like a great idea for them.

 

[Maximara]

No one is asking apple to host a 3rd party iOS app store.

Epic is asking apple to host a 3rd party iOS app store - their's.

 

[jmgregory1]

I'm on Apple's side, but this analogy is just wrong. Retailer markups for software downloads vs. brick and mortar retail of physical product are not comparable. Target has to maintain a physical inventory, which is very expensive.

Ahh, but if this state senator thinks Apple is charging too much, why couldn’t the same be said of Target, for example. Walmart can be profitable selling for less margin. So can Costco. If any government is going to set maximum margins companies can make for online stores selling software, then the same type of system should be used for other products, e-commerce or not, which was my point.

 

[nwcs]

I assume it was a spelling mistake, and you mean ”pay to win” apps. “Play to win” is fine.

It was an autocorrect mistake since the phone changes things and I don’t always notice.

 

[Taz Mangus]

Epic fail!

 

[Juraj22]

So is Apple admitting that they are OK with undermining the privacy, security, safety and performance of their macs?

Well, yes. You can have antivirus sw on mac. On iOS you can't as it makes no sense due to sandboxing.

Security on mac is not that good comparing to iOS. Especially on x86 macs. iOS from the start was designed as console with limited functionality. Like domestic appliance. This is why people love it. Because most of the time "It just works".

Appstore like we know it today still have a lot of issues. But allowing other "App stores" does not help that situation. It makes it worse.

Main concern for developers is piracy. It is a huge problem on all 'open' platforms. Nowadays not many people jailbreak, because there is no reason. However, some still do. And primary reason why they do is to run pirated sw.

 

[Maximara]

I'm on Apple's side, but this analogy is just wrong. Retailer markups for software downloads vs. brick and mortar retail of physical product are not comparable. Target has to maintain a physical inventory, which is very expensive.

And as I keep pointing out 30% was the standard back in 2019 so this claim of a difference between software downloads vs. brick and mortar retail is DOA.

Digital general computer stores (30%): Steam, GOG, Microsoft store

Consoles (30%): Playstationk Xbox, Nintendro

Mobile (30%): Apple Store, Google pay

Physical Stores (30%): Gamestop, Amaqzone, Best Buy, Walmart

Digital stores have their upkeep as well - energy to power the servers, energy to cool the servers, hard drive replacement (5 year life span), specialists to keep the servers running, etc.

 

[Maximara]

Apple has about 50% marketshare in the US.

Since when has Apple had "about 50% marketshare in the US." ?! The best was back in the late 1980s early 1990s when they had in the desktop 12%. The iOS marketshare is 25%. Even if you added those together (which is silly the percentages really don't add but let's go with it) you get 37%. Since when is 37% "about 50%?"

 

[Ethosik]

Your proposed analogy is not analogous at all.

The hypothetical home is simply hardware. The phone is a combination of hardware and software. It is the software that is both the reason for the lockdown and the part that is actually locked down.

In theory, you could remove all of the software from an iPhone, put in an entirely new operating system that you wrote, and buy software to your heart's content.

Of course, that isn't what is being proposed here. Epic, and DHH, and all the other freeloaders want Apple to provide their hardware and software for free, so that they can sell their own products at Apple's expense.

Yes. There are certain illegal things you cannot do even in a house you purchased.