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NPD: 90% of $1,000+ PCs Sold in Fourth Quarter 2009 Were Macs
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Yeah I guess that's why all PC's are 300 dollars. I mean no PC's are offered over 1000 dollars. Only greedy Apple charges that much.
Perhaps if you weren't so busy rolling your eyes you might have noticed that I said most, not all.
The fact remains that the vast majority of PCs sell for well under 1000 dollars and offer equal or better performance levels than macs.
The fact that IBM sold the business to Lenovo is the relevant part. IBM's 2009 gross margin was 45.7% and pre-tax margin was 23.4%. They got out of the PC hardware business because it was a low margin game. Lenovo's disturbing popularity doesn't change this.
Fighting for market share on price at the low end of a commodity business is no fun for anyone. Every PC manufacturer would prefer to have Apple's profits and Apple's position. More and more PC hardware manufacturers will be spun off or shut down in the future because the only company making money is Microsoft.
What out of that would you disagree with?
Uh, actually I'd kinda like Apple to stay in business if that's okay with you?
The current state of the PC market is utterly shocking. Everyone is in a race to the bottom, slashing margins left right and centre. The only people making serious money in that market are either shifting enormous numbers of units or software providers, the most obvious one being Microsoft.
Is there room for Apple to cut costs? Yeah, sure, their current margains are probably too high. But they're not as expensive as people seem to think they are compared to like-for-like products and Apple have a LOT of R&D expenses to cover that a company like, say, Dell does not. Plus they're just about the only major PC manufacturer to provide a free, real-world support service in the form of the Genius bar in every Apple store as well as all the hands-on stuff they do in-store, a cost that's got to be reflected somewhere.
Basically, 'PC Price' is going to devastate the PC industry in the next few years if companies aren't VERY careful. It's going to get a lot worse for them if the iPad and the devices that follow (I'm thinking Android specificaly) takes a big chunk of that 'pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap' market share.
I just see this report as missing the obvious...Apple computers START at $1000 (I won't count the Mini) while Windows desktop PCs start at $499 and laptops at $599. Where's the headline about Bentley owning 90% of the $300,000 automobile market.
For the past few years we've read on MR that Macs are exploding in growth...yet still below the 10% personal computer marketshare.
There are only so many people who will spend $1000 (or more) on a computer these days. Sooner or later Apple is going to realize that. And either Apple will need to lower the prices to gain more/new customers or Apple is going to plateau in sales. But alas, maybe Apple doesn't care because they are no longer a computer company...they are an electronics company like Sony...one that sells music players, cell phones, computers, multimedia (iTunes).
I have not purchased a $1000+ computer since 1996 when the average PC desktop price was hovering around $1800 instead of today's $600. I've helped hundreds (literally) of people over the past 10+ years purchase/choose new desktop computers and nobody has spent more than $800 except for the 2-3 people that bought an iMac which were around $1300 a few years ago.
I'm not arguing if the Mac machines are good, bad, or sexy....I'm just stating that Apple will someday realize that the average Joe ain't gonna spend $1000 for a Mac if he can buy a similar machine (for his needs) for $600. Just like I don't need a $400 circular saw when the $99 one will do just fine...again, for my needs.
For the past few years we've read on MR that Macs are exploding in growth...yet still below the 10% personal computer marketshare.
There are only so many people who will spend $1000 (or more) on a computer these days. Sooner or later Apple is going to realize that. And either Apple will need to lower the prices to gain more/new customers or Apple is going to plateau in sales. But alas, maybe Apple doesn't care because they are no longer a computer company...they are an electronics company like Sony...one that sells music players, cell phones, computers, multimedia (iTunes).
I have not purchased a $1000+ computer since 1996 when the average PC desktop price was hovering around $1800 instead of today's $600. I've helped hundreds (literally) of people over the past 10+ years purchase/choose new desktop computers and nobody has spent more than $800 except for the 2-3 people that bought an iMac which were around $1300 a few years ago.
I'm not arguing if the Mac machines are good, bad, or sexy....I'm just stating that Apple will someday realize that the average Joe ain't gonna spend $1000 for a Mac if he can buy a similar machine (for his needs) for $600. Just like I don't need a $400 circular saw when the $99 one will do just fine...again, for my needs.
Of course they posted a record quarter. Finally!
It's hundreds of millions of PC users waiting for the Vista nightmare to be over. What did you expect? Poor sales of Windows 7?? What are the alternatives offered by MS? XP and Vista. One is an 8+ year old dog of an OS, the other is a massive flop. That's hundreds of millions of PC users dying for an upgrade after years of getting the shaft. And Apple's Premium end of the market has natural barriers to entry, starting with the $1000 minimum fee. Apple doesn't compete in the market segments occupied mostly by MS. Of course, Apple is now transitioning away from the traditional desktop computer + desktop OS paradigm. Which I'm loving.
PC users outnumber all others, and always have, whether MS released a good OS or a lousy one. Most users already had PCs. PCs are cheap and now more disposable than ever (netbooks.) The bottom of the retail pyramid is always the widest. The biggest computer-using segment uses PCs. Now throw in an OS that fixes Vista and by sheer force of numbers alone (volume) you'll have a great quarter.
There's no miracle here. Just the massive number of PC users who suffered for years, now jumping at the chance to upgrade. It's nothing new, miraculous or groundbreaking.
It makes no difference whether it succeeds or fails. PC users, by virtue of the low cost of entry into the PC market alone, will always outnumber users of all other platforms. Windows will always sell well, in whatever form, because it can run on the cheapest hardware - nearly everything - and this is what you find the most of. Obviously, this doesn't guarantee a uniform user experience like you would get with a Mac, but again, it fixed Vista. Which is all that really matters to consumers in this segment of the market.
We're seeing highly concentrated sales of a particular version (good news) because everyone was waiting to upgrade and end the XP/Vista pain, which lasted far, far too long. MS *did* release a Windows that lives up to their expectations, and they deserve all the credit in the world for that. It's a shame that it took this long, though. Right now, Windows is really all MS has going for it in the consumer market. And I think it will be enough to help MS ride out the difficulties they're experiencing in their other consumer-oriented ventures. It should allow them some breathing room to develop their mobile segment and give investors a good reason to maintain their confidence.
LOL I mean exactly what R&D does Dell do, they just get a laptop and slap Windows 7 on it and call it a day. Apple on the other hand has to actually develop their own OS to work with their machines. I mean what equivalent to OSX does Dell spend their R&D dollars on, what equivalent to iLife does Dell spend their research on, what equivalent to iChat does Dell spend their research on? Where is Dell's store that I can go in to get help with my mac, iphone, ipod, or in the future ipad? I have 5 apple store within 20 minutes drive of where I live. There is even one I can walk to.
I just see this report as missing the obvious...Apple computers START at $1000 (I won't count the Mini) while Windows desktop PCs start at $499 and laptops at $599. Where's the headline about Bentley owning 90% of the $300,000 automobile market.
For the past few years we've read on MR that Macs are exploding in growth...yet still below the 10% personal computer marketshare.
There are only so many people who will spend $1000 (or more) on a computer these days. Sooner or later Apple is going to realize that. And either Apple will need to lower the prices to gain more/new customers or Apple is going to plateau in sales. But alas, maybe Apple doesn't care because they are no longer a computer company...they are an electronics company like Sony...one that sells music players, cell phones, computers, multimedia (iTunes).
I have not purchased a $1000+ computer since 1996 when the average PC desktop price was hovering around $1800 instead of today's $600. I've helped hundreds (literally) of people over the past 10+ years purchase/choose new desktop computers and nobody has spent more than $800 except for the 2-3 people that bought an iMac which were around $1300 a few years ago.
I'm not arguing if the Mac machines are good, bad, or sexy....I'm just stating that Apple will someday realize that the average Joe ain't gonna spend $1000 for a Mac if he can buy a similar machine (for his needs) for $600. Just like I don't need a $400 circular saw when the $99 one will do just fine...again, for my needs.
Why shouldn't we count the Mini and going by your logic Apple should be seeing a decrease in sales and not an increase.
Laptop Hunters. Reloaded. It didn't work then and it won't work now.
When will this "someday" happen? Because it hasn't happened during this recession. Apple actually sold *more* Macs in a recession. So much for "aint gonna spend $1000."
I think your crystal ball is defective. Must be an Acer product.
Oh, right, someday we'll all be buying sub-$1000 iPads, which is where mobile computing is heading. If that's what you meant, you're absolutely right.
Most computer makers still make money, just not as much as Apple or MS. I agree that most would rather be in Apples positions but they have neither the brand image nor the halo effect from other products to pull it off.
I could also say 100% of <$999 PCs sold were not Macs.
Anyway, this definitely put a lot of pressure to Windows PC manufactures, as they would have to depend more and more to low margin high volume sales, since once their prices go to above $1000, consumers would have the "Ah crap, if I'm spending this much money, might as well get a Mac" mentality.
Exactly what I was thinking. Anyway a lot of people buy their pc components and make it themselves. I've done so with mine you can actually get a very good pc for less than $1000.
GPU 5870 - $399
CPU i5- $199
RAM 4GB DDR3- $99
HDD - $80
Mobo - $99
PSU - $99
Use your old monitor and case. You can chop and change to suit your needs
Exactly what I was thinking. Anyway a lot of people buy their pc components and make it themselves. I've done so with mine you can actually get a very good pc for less than $1000.
GPU 5870 - $399
CPU i5- $199
RAM 4GB DDR3- $99
HDD - $80
Mobo - $99
PSU - $99
Use your old monitor and case. You can chop and change to suit your needs
Dude I doubt more than 5 percent of people buying PCs are building their own and 5 percent is not a lot.
you fail to understand where Dell makes its money, it isn't on the desktop PC to home users, Dell makes its money at the SMB/Enterprise level selling servers professional services, home PCs are just a part of the business.
another thing to keep in mind, is that there is no account for all the people who build their own Windows systems and those are the people who spend $1000+ and are willing to spend $1000+ on a computer. if there was a similar channel offered for Mac users the numbers would be lower since there would be plenty of those who will opt to do a custom build. similar on the PC side of the house, if there was no way to build custom then the high end $1000+ computers would sell better for those gamers who currently build their own
in the end Mac fits a portion of the market and Windows fits a portion of the market. these efforts to try to be show superiority are pretty pointless since they are for better or worse started by fanboys on either side who feel like they have to piimp their chocie to justify it as the "best"
Why? Hmmm...because the Mini doesn't come with a keyboard or mouse or monitor...so I consider that a very specialized computer. There ain't a PC desktop in the world that ships without a mouse or keyboard...unless you are someone like myself who builds computers from scratch and buys individual parts (not a computer) from online retailers.
So I'll do that for you...$600 for the Mini +$100 for the keyboard and mouse combo is $700.
Oh...but see I forgot....99% of all Windows PCs over $500 come with a monitor...and usually, these days, a nice 20" or larger. So that's at least $200 for that monitor. So now that Mini is up to $900. But oh wait...surely you want me to use the Apple monitor since that's what dad's gonna buy if he's in the Apple store...so everything looks the same color and stuff...so that's $899 for the cheapest Apple monitor...so $700 for the Mini + $900 for the monitor = $1600. Take your pick...it's either $900 or $1600 for a Mini system.
We can argue all day long the niche market and purpose for the Mini. I have one. I'm not the average Joe. The average person/family wants a computer system that has the computer, mouse, keyboard, and monitor. Period. Very rarely does someone buy a replacement computer without a monitor. And obviously if this is a new computer (meaning you did not own one prior) you need a monitor to use it.
see, here's the thing that alla you linux neckbeards and spotty gamerboys out there who frequent these forums just do not get.
No mainstream user (and trust me, none of them read macrumors much less comment here) either wants, or quite honestly, needs to tinker, fiddle with or customize their machines. You hobbyists who like to tinker with your boxes are a dying breed, so you just keep on shouting in your echo chamber here but you're a vanishing percentile of the userbase. I'm sorry that's a painful pill to swallow, but that's facts.
Apple is quietly doing the very same thing to the PC industry in the 2000s-2010s that Honda, Toyota and BMW did to the auto industry in the 1980s and 1990s. They offer a sexy-looking, low maintenance product at just enough premium that the average consumer feels good in justifying a "quality purchase". And, in the main, it sells itself, because for 90-95% of the consumers, the product just runs and runs and runs. And, for 90 to 95% of the customers out there, that is all they ever need or want.
For the last time, NO ONE in the mainstream, HOME computer market (not business, naturally, but there's a rental fleet analogy there that's tl;dr to make) ever wants to open up their box to do anything with it. They want a shiny, happy, pretty machine that Just. Runs. Period.
Microsoft is making the same mistake GM has for the past thirty years. They just keep doing the same thing over and over again, with less result every time. Netbook makers remind me of companies like Chrysler and Ford and Yugo in the late 70's and early 80s who thought cheap, shoddy compact cars that looked like hell and ran like crap were what the consumer wanted. Netbooks are essentially the Yugos of the computer industry. They sold a ton of them in the early 80s yet were out of production in the U.S. within ten years.
Or perhaps it should be you who must have a heart attack. PC high end did not disappear. As far as 1K+ computers are concerned those are bought primarily by businesses (and they are more expensive than Macs) and they are totally ignored by this survey. Secondly, define "high end". Do you consider $1300 MacBook a high end? Well, similar PC notebook will cost below 1K. So PC users get their high end for less than 1K wheres Mac users pay well known Apple tax. So what's your point? That Apple charged more? Everybody knows that. I do not quite understand the masochistic trait of Mac fans. The surveys tells you - you are being ripped off. Mac fans enjoy this news because Steve has more money in his pocket. Good for you
Call me when Apple's Mac personal computer marketshare hits 10%. Then call me again when it hits 15%.
No, I do not own a single Acer product.
I'm glad Apple is selling "more" Macs...I can guarantee you that unless Macs fall below $1000, the wave of Mac sales will plateau by mid 2011. Apple, over the past 2+ years I would gather, has found enough consumers to buy their $1000+ Macs. That well will soon run dry.
It's not about the cheapest vs. the most expensive...it's the fact, again, that Mac systems START at $1000. Period. PC Systems do not start $1000...they start at 1/2 the price. It's like comparing dining room tables from 1 vendor that start at $500 and another vendor that starts at $1000. They're really in 2 different markets.
I love the iMac design...I just think they are too expensive and I am forced to buy expensive upgrades through Apple (ram, hard drive, for example) than do it myself for 1/4 the price. So therefore I don't own an iMac. Maybe someday the price will start more around the $800 range instead of $1200.
Now you're just ranting spurious crap. You're living in fantasy land if you think that's an accurate statistic for the average user.