Nvidia on Its Lack of macOS Mojave Drivers for Newer Graphics Cards: 'It's Up to Apple to Approve Them'

[ilikewhey]

I feel the same way as you do. Apple doesn't do things it can't really profit from. I'm also surprised NVidia would waste its time helping out Apple as Apple mainly supports AMD Radeon hardware. I find it sickening that Apple doesn't have a single computer that has even one industry-standard PCIe slot. If I were NVidia, I wouldn't even look in the direction of Apple. Apple doesn't even give users a choice of what graphics card they can use. Those Radeon chips are nothing but home heaters, sucking power like no tomorrow. I honestly don't understand Apple not using NVidia GPUs when they're more powerful and consume less energy in the same package. Apple with its skinny cases needs some GPU that puts out less heat.

well i can see why nvidia wants to release drivers on mac, since there is a healthy community using geforce cards on mac with egpu and classic mac pro. so there are mac customers who does purchase nvidia cards. but apple doesn't profit from this at all on the other hand.

 

[netdoc66]

Sounds like Apple pulling a OWC Aura move again. Good luck getting those drivers! Maybe one of the Nvida folk can post it on Github?!?!

 

[wubsylol]

I'm running Mojave on an Nvidia 680 and the performance is good on standard Apple drivers.

It was better on High Sierra using the webdrivers.

 

[MacBillUK]

Apple's one-sided support of AMD is a disgrace. I am a big CUDA fan and it used to be possible to make extensive use of it in Macs. Now even their stupid out of date Mac Pro ships with installed AMD-only configs, as do their Apple-promoted eGPU boxes and most other Mac hardware. I am nursing my 2008 Mac Pro along on El Cap (though I could hack to HS) rather than spending money Apple's way, until they sort it out. No Nvidia, no purchase.

 

[MacBH928]

Its 2018, can we stop having something called "drivers"?

I am not sure what they are but like since Win98 you have to download and update drivers, and new drivers will ruin other stuff, and its just crazy and you never know how many drivers are installed on your system. Why can't we just have a plug-n-play experience?

 

[mr_moobs]

im pleasantly surprised to see Mac Rumors actually acknowledging the existence of the Classic Mac Pro community

however "Nvidia graphics cards based on Kepler architecture, which Apple offered in various Macs between 2012 and 2014, are fully compatible with macOS Mojave. This includes the GeForce GTX 680, GeForce GTX 285, GeForce GT 120, GeForce 8800 GT, Quadro K5000 for Mac, Quadro K4000 for Mac, Quadro FX 4800, and Quadro FX 5600." is quite miss leading and could confuse a lot of people

the GeForce GTX 680 and Quadro K5000 are the only kepler based video cards in that list, the rest of the cards listed are of old, Fermi and Tesla based chipsets which do not support metal in any way shape or form (theres also no such thing as a K4000 for Mac)

any chance to also mention the fact that the new RTX 2070 RTX 2080 and RTX 2080 Ti provide Boot screens in Mac Pros? (its worth mentioning because previous PC NVIDIA cards do not provide boot screens, No PC AMD cards provide boot screens for that matter)

(Its also worth mentioning NVIDIA eGPUs are not supported in the slightest in MacOS, not even the web drivers enable them so im a bit confused as to why eGPUs are being mentioned? the main people suffering here are 2010 and 2012 Mac Pro users)

but I will say I am very happy and thankful that Apple still supports the MacPro5,1 at all

How much work did you have getting a RTX 2070 RTX 2080 or RTX 2080 Ti working with your 5,1? I'd LOVE to upgrade from my GTX 680.

 

[bsbeamer]

How much work did you have getting a RTX 2070 RTX 2080 or RTX 2080 Ti working with your 5,1? I'd LOVE to upgrade from my GTX 680.

See this forum:
Frequently Asked Questions About NVIDIA PC (non-EFI) Graphics Cards

Without NVIDIA Web Drivers, you'll need to stick with GTX series cards. GTX 1080 FE works well, is easily powered via dual mini 6-pin to standard 8-pin (just like RX580)... but only works in 10.13.6 right now.

 

[flogician]

Can someone shed some light on this: In what way does Apple have to "approve" the drivers?
We are talking about kernel extensions, right? So it would still be feasible for Nvidia to release their updated web drivers for beta testers and brave users who a) disable SIP and b) allow exceptions to the kext signing

Moreover, they have a signing certificate, so they could just sign the beta driver. No approval needed by Apple, and no crazy mods needed by users.

 

[bsbeamer]

For those who are new to the NVIDIA Web Drivers or wondering why this is an issue, it's because of this screenshot. This particular file in extensions is required for my GTX 1080 FE to operate as a GPU within macOS.

Beyond this, as you can see there are two versions of NVDAGF100Hal (one is Web and one is not). Same with NVDAGK100Hal (one is Web and one is not).

These are drivers for the FERMI GPUs (for this purpose, basically GTX 4XX and GTX 5XX) and KEPLER GPUs (for this purpose, basically GTX 6XX and GTX 7XX). There is an Apple version of them and an NVIDIA version of them. The NVIDIA version is what is required to work with CUDA on Mac (the one that ends in Web). These FERMI and KEPLER GPUs will work without NVIDIA Web Drivers in macOS because drivers are baked into the OS (10.32 versions that have not been updated in a relatively long time).

Basically all NEWER cards require NVIDIA Web Drivers to add these files into extensions so the GPUs can function. The last line you can see their files are signed and identified. They behave as they are supposed to within macOS 10.13.6.

NVDAGP100HalWeb:
Version: 10.33.0
Last Modified: 8/29/18, 2:43 PM
Bundle ID: com.nvidia.web.NVDAGP100HalWeb
Loaded: Yes
Get Info String: NVDAGP100HalWeb 10.33.0 387.10.10.15.15.108
Obtained from: Identified Developer
Kind: Intel
Architectures: x86_64
64-Bit (Intel): Yes
Location: /Library/Extensions/NVDAGP100HalWeb.kext
Kext Version: 10.3.3
Load Address: 18446743521827400000
Loadable: Yes
Dependencies: Satisfied
Signed by: Developer ID Application: NVIDIA Corporation (6KR3T733EC), Developer ID Certification Authority, Apple Root CA

Because these are not "apps" (system files), apparently the driver signing needs to be authenticated by Apple at some point.
(This is where there is a lot of debate right now shifting who is to blame for what NVIDIA vs. Apple.)

This is the Developer ID program:
https://developer.apple.com/developer-id/

If NVIDIA chooses to release drives OUTSIDE of the Developer ID program, all users who install would need to disable SIP and disable Gatekeeper. Anyone who thinks that is the best approach must seriously question why these measures were even started by Apple to begin with...
[doublepost=1541164210][/doublepost]

Moreover, they have a signing certificate, so they could just sign the beta driver. No approval needed by Apple, and no crazy mods needed by users.

Apparently their signing certificate is not 100% free range and depend on Apple's final blessing because these are system files. This is the debate and argument everyone who wants to blame one vs. other is using.

At the end of the day, until these two corporations can get their s**t together (or one give the other a call back) nothing will be fixed for Mojave.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Its 2018, can we stop having something called "drivers"?

I am not sure what they are but like since Win98 you have to download and update drivers, and new drivers will ruin other stuff, and its just crazy and you never know how many drivers are installed on your system. Why can't we just have a plug-n-play experience?

I don't know if you where being sarcastic or joking, but I'll bite.

If you want a 'plug-n-play' experience you need something to plugin. Such a plugin is called a 'driver'. In this case the plugin (or driver) provides the gateway and communication between the OS and the graphics card.
In short: There is no plug-n-play possible without drivers, be it on Windows, Mac or any other OS.

 

[nt5672]

Apple is going to move OSX to ARM together with their own GPU design so we can all play iOS ported games on a new $7k Mac Pro at 200FPS.

Nope you got that wrong. Apple devices will only do 30 FPS, but the marketing message will be that because of the technology (Metal) involved it will seem like 200 FPS.

 

[noone]

I don’t game or use my graphics card in any real “professional” manner, so I can’t speak to those aspects of it but... Every Mac that I’ve owned with an Nvidia graphics card has been recalled due to production/quality problems.

In one case I didn’t start having issues until a couple of weeks after the recall ended and I was essentially told that I was screwed, pay for a new morherboard or get lost.

Another one was still under the recall, and I was having problems (which I documented) but since their test/diagnostics didn’t show a certain result, I was again shown the door.

I’m not upset that Nvidia isn’t an option.

 

[StellarVixen]

Thank you so much for speaking out loudly on this! Mac users with nVIDIA cards have been complaining for weeks, but no one from mainstream media talks nor writes about this huge issue.

This is unbelievable. 6 weeks is beyond too much.

 

[64info]

I don't know if you where being sarcastic or joking, but I'll bite.

If you want a 'plug-n-play' experience you need something to plugin. Such a plugin is called a 'driver'. In this case the plugin (or driver) provides the gateway and communication between the OS and the graphics card.
In short: There is no plug-n-play possible without drivers, be it on Windows, Mac or any other OS.

I understand what you are saying, taking it a little further, we shouldn't be using the term ‘plug & play’ for an example, I think you should go back a little further and use the term ‘autoconfig’.. For the most part ‘plug & play’ still requires drivers, ‘autoconfig’ (zorro) cards lets you plug in the card and do nothing else.. this dates myself as that was how all Amiga’s worked when we used to use ProTracker to produce music.. (computers that were so ahead of their time blah blah blah…but we won’t get into that discussion here).

On another note, being an Apple user since I purchased my SE/30 in 1990, i have seen many changes with hardware, some good, some bad. Steve Jobs was always a good mouth piece for the company, but he wasn’t the brains behind the company, its not really fair to say that Apple would be in a better place with him there today. There are many people behind the scenes at Apple that make our favourite computer what they are. Having said that……. Tim Cook has pushed Apple to be a mobile phone and tablet company, with computers being their second or third priority. These disputes with Nvida / AMD has nothing to do with performance/heat issues, it is all $$$, that’s all that Apple cares about. I bet more than half of the shareholders use Windows 10. I’d like to hear what Woz would have to say about Apple in 2018. Is this the direction he had visioned for his company back in his garage?

Back to the OP… Get the 10.14 web drivers out there already!!!

‘Designed In California, manufactured in sweatshops overseas’

 

[Asgorath]

No. Nope. Sorry, but no. Blaming another company for why your product isn’t compatible with their system is lazy and disrespectful to your customers. I spent $4000 on a gpu. You contact Apple and make sure it works for every - single - update.

Or stop claiming your hardware supports Macs.

Which GPU did you buy, and where did it say it was officially supported on macOS?

 

[maflynn]

I don't understand why Apple keeps using AMD GPUs

Money, pure and simple

 

[Haswell]

Ummm, yeah because I like swapping displays to different ports everytime I boot into another OS. Besides, it is harder to get hackintosh computers working with the internal GPU and a dedicated one installed at the same time.

I just hacked the nVidia OS compatibility check; so I am running with the latest security update High Sierra and Web drivers 387.10.10.10.40.105. Seems to be working just fine.

I use two cables. One for the iGPU and a second one for the dGPU.
[doublepost=1541174863][/doublepost]Why is it up to Apple to approve them? Why can't Nvidia just release them on their web site?

 

[bsbeamer]

Why is it up to Apple to approve them? Why can't Nvidia just release them on their web site?

#109

 

[4jasontv]

Which GPU did you buy, and where did it say it was officially supported on macOS?

Quadro P6000. Back in early 2017 Nvidia stated they would release Pascal drivers.

 

[bsbeamer]

Quadro P6000. Back in early 2017 Nvidia stated they would release Pascal drivers.

Pascal drivers are available for 10.13.6, which is an UPDATED OS from when you purchased Quadro P6000. 387.10.10.15.15.108 are the latest and work with 10.13.6 build 17G3025.

As with EVERY SINGLE RELEASE of the NVIDIA Web Drivers for Mac - they are technically BETA. "OFFICIALLY" they support GeForce GTX 680, GeForce GTX 285, GeForce GT 120, GeForce 8800 GT, Quadro K5000 for Mac, Quadro 4000 for Mac, Quadro FX 4800, and Quadro FX 5600. (Other cards also work, unofficially.)

Quadro P6000 is NOT an Apple-Approved GPU. You take a risk when using it with Mac, just like everyone who's on GTX 1080 GPUs.

Quadro K5000 for Mac and Quadro 4000 for Mac are the last OFFICIALLY sanctioned Quadro for Mac GPUs. Any functionality beyond those with newer class options was because NVIDIA did the heavy lifting to get the drivers approved (not Apple).

Now NVIDIA is transparent enough to PUBLICLY state why the Mojave 10.14 drivers are unavailable. No one wants to believe Apple is to blame, even though Apple still has not provided response or comment on the situation...

 

[4jasontv]

Pascal drivers are available for 10.13.6, which is an UPDATED OS from when you purchased Quadro P6000. 387.10.10.15.15.108 are the latest and work with 10.13.6 build 17G3025.

As with EVERY SINGLE RELEASE of the NVIDIA Web Drivers for Mac - they are technically BETA. "OFFICIALLY" they support GeForce GTX 680, GeForce GTX 285, GeForce GT 120, GeForce 8800 GT, Quadro K5000 for Mac, Quadro 4000 for Mac, Quadro FX 4800, and Quadro FX 5600. (Other cards also work, unofficially.)

Quadro P6000 is NOT an Apple-Approved GPU. You take a risk when using it with Mac, just like everyone who's on GTX 1080 GPUs.

Quadro K5000 for Mac and Quadro 4000 for Mac are the last OFFICIALLY sanctioned Quadro for Mac GPUs. Any functionality beyond those with newer class options was because NVIDIA did the heavy lifting to get the drivers approved (not Apple).

Now NVIDIA is transparent enough to PUBLICLY state why the Mojave 10.14 drivers are unavailable. No one wants to believe Apple is to blame, even though Apple still has not provided response or comment on the situation...

They publicly stated they would support it. Beta or not - they are responsible for fixing it.

 

[bsbeamer]

They publicly stated they would support it. Beta or not - they are responsible for fixing it.

Good luck with your lawsuit.

 

[zorinlynx]

Baffles me a company so fond and proud of superior design and performance continues to shun Nvidia in their products.

This is probably the single biggest FUBAR in the tech world ever.

Could it be that Nvidia has never been able to write good MacOS drivers? Like I mentioned above, I've had a lot more problems historically (over many years) with Nvidia-based Macs than Radeon. Maybe Apple got tired of the crap and indeed shunned Nvidia because of the bad drivers?

If Nvidia wants to be on Apple systems again, they should write good drivers that are equal in performance and stability to the AMD drivers. What's wrong with AMD Radeon chipsets on Macs anyway?
[doublepost=1541206497][/doublepost]

I don’t game or use my graphics card in any real “professional” manner, so I can’t speak to those aspects of it but... Every Mac that I’ve owned with an Nvidia graphics card has been recalled due to production/quality problems.

In one case I didn’t start having issues until a couple of weeks after the recall ended and I was essentially told that I was screwed, pay for a new morherboard or get lost.

Another one was still under the recall, and I was having problems (which I socumwnted) but since their test/diagnostics didn’t show a certain result, I was again shown the door.

I’m not upset that Nvidia isn’t an option.

Indeed; if Apple goes back to Nvidia chipsets I'm going to stay away from new GPU-equipped Macs until they go back to AMD. I suffered the Nvidia-on-MacOS pain enough.

 

[4jasontv]

Good luck with your lawsuit.

What are you talking about? Who said anything about a lawsuit? Would you mind not speaking for others?
[doublepost=1541210344][/doublepost]

No one wants to believe Apple is to blame, even though Apple still has not provided response or comment on the situation...

Because Apple has nothing to comment on. Apple has no responsibility to support NVidia hardware because they don’t sell it.

 

[bryanck]

Sad how Nvidia has to resort to scapegoating Apple for their lack of investment in macOS. Does Nvidia also blame Apple for taking nearly a year to release (crappy) macOS drivers for Pascal cards? This has NOTHING to do with Apple. Nvidia can sign drivers just like they always have, but of course they can't sign drivers they haven't developed. BTW, I sold my 1080 Ti and bought a Vega 64 and couldn't be happier. I'd recommend anyone using macOS to do the same.