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DDave said:
Hey guys, I just got in from an Apple users group meeting. One of the members works for an Apple Authorized reseller. He was all gitty, as he's being sent to Cuppertino on Monday the 19th for an "Event" This is solid info from a trustworthy guy. Hey this is good news at least we have more info.
yeah - my uncle's brother's son also attended that meeting and he said something along those lines.

BS.
Hey, don't make fun. It's 100% true. I just got the same information from my sister's friend's hairdresser's dog-walker's plumber's cousin's boyfriend's uncle who knows Steve Jobs' wife's parent's gardener's aunt's taxi driver's garbageman. ;)

Apple rarely has events on a Monday and there's been no word on any invitations yet.
 
That's simply not compatible with the other rumor that there is a redesign to make the iMac a lot thinner. Either-Or. There are both space and thermal issues with discrete graphics. The trend for iMac from the beginning (and really, for all Apple computers) has been for less space and to keep power requirements lower. This is why it's inevitable that you'll have integrated graphics - hopefully they'll get a lot better. But Apple has seen the future, and it's in integrated chipsets. Of course, I'm not saying all is lost - let's see what Larrabee brings before we go too far with this speculation.
There is no rumor that the iMac is going to be a lot thinner (a rumor about "thinner" does not mean "a lot thinner").

Look, the Core i7 Mobile has iMac written all over it. Why do you think that a processor and chip set that Intel designed for notebook computers can't be used in the iMac? The thermal specifications for the Core i7 Mobile and its PM55 chip set are actually perfectly fine for the iMac and Apple could place a low to mid-range discrete graphics chip off of the Core i7 Mobile's dedicated PCI-E bus and still be within the same thermal specifications as today's iMac (even today, only the low-end iMacs are using integrated graphics, the mid and high range use discrete GPUs).

If the iMac is going to be thinner it will likely be because Apple is switching to LED backlighting -- something that they pretty much have to do since Steve Jobs has already said that they would be eliminating CFLs (compact fluorescent lights) from all of their products.

Furthermore, you really think Apple is going to limit itself to using low-power, dual-core processors (i.e. Arrandale) across its entire consumer product line? How does that fit with Snow Leopard's emphasis on multi-core and multi-threading technology and OpenCL (the latter is not a good fit to Intel's existing integrated graphics technology).

Lastly, Intel's direction toward greater functional integration into the processor is not being driven by some conspiracy to exclude NVIDIA from the chip set and integrated graphics businesses (as you suggested in an earlier post). Intel is putting the graphics bus and the memory controller inside of the processor in order to improve performance, it's a key component in the evolution of processor architectures. True, this is a win-win for Intel as it does signal the end of the traditional north/south bridge chip-set architecture relied upon by NVIDIA. But the Core i7 and Arrandale bus design is clearly superior to the old front-side bus used in the Core 2 Duo and that is the principal reason for the change.

However, this does not signal the end to discrete graphics as witness to the fact that Intel has included a dedicated PCI-E bus for external graphics processors on both the Core i7 Mobile and Arrandale (it's actually built into the chip/package).
 
Hey guys, I just got in from an Apple users group meeting. One of the members works for an Apple Authorized reseller. He was all gitty, as he's being sent to Cuppertino on Monday the 19th for an "Event" This is solid info from a trustworthy guy. Hey this is good news at least we have more info.

Apple rarely has events on a Monday and there's been no word on any invitations yet.

I think he meant that the guy is flying down on Monday for an event on the 20th. At least that's what I got from his post.
 
I think he meant that the guy is flying down on Monday for an event on the 20th. At least that's what I got from his post.

Same here. I have no idea if the guy knows someone or not, because the 20th is the best target date right now for this event.
 
http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/about/core.htm

65 Watts Desktop CPU still possible in iMac (but may be with 32nm not with 45nm) right now it looks like Core i7 Mobile is the way to go...

Name Watts Type Cache Speed Cost
P8400 25 C2D 3 2.26 $209.00
P8600 25 C2D 3 2.40 $209.00
P8700 25 C2D 3 2.53 $241.00
P8800 25 C2D 3 2.66 $241.00
SP9600 25 C2D 6 2.53 $316.00
T9400 35 C2D 6 2.53 $316.00
T9900 35 C2D 6 3.06 $530.00
i7-720 45 Clarksfield 6 1.60 $364.00
Xeon 45 Lynfield 8 1.86 $284.00

Let's look at some practical possibilities. Here is a list of the most likely candidates based on wattage for Mac Mini, MacBook and iMacs for processor upgrades, keeping in mind cost. I would be happy to see the P8800 or T9400 in the Mac Mini as a BTO option.
 
Same here. I have no idea if the guy knows someone or not, because the 20th is the best target date right now for this event.


It makes the most sense, if they want to steal some of Microsoft's thunder the week of Win7 release. Every other computer manufacturer has new models coming out that week, so Apple needs to have something bright and shiny to compete.
 
Oct 19

No offense to the people here who have been posting for years. But sometimes us newbies do have just as much insight as you do. For instance yesterday, I was called by Apple customer relations, I ordered an 24" iMac on Sept 18/09. I called to find out if I would see it sometime before I was to old to care. They originally told me that I should expect it to ship on or before Oct 13/09. When they sent me the e-mail form about how the call went, I told Apple that I was disappointed with the wait and the lack of answers.

So Apple customer relations called yesterday to do a follow up and the agent told me that my order was due to ship on Oct 19/09. Take it for what it is worth.
 
No offense to the people here who have been posting for years. But sometimes us newbies do have just as much insight as you do. For instance yesterday, I was called by Apple customer relations, I ordered an 24" iMac on Sept 18/09. I called to find out if I would see it sometime before I was to old to care. They originally told me that I should expect it to ship on or before Oct 13/09. When they sent me the e-mail form about how the call went, I told Apple that I was disappointed with the wait and the lack of answers.

So Apple customer relations called yesterday to do a follow up and the agent told me that my order was due to ship on Oct 19/09. Take it for what it is worth.

still it may be announced next tuesday and shipped on 19th.
 
There is no rumor that the iMac is going to be a lot thinner (a rumor about "thinner" does not mean "a lot thinner").

Look, the Core i7 Mobile has iMac written all over it. Why do you think that a processor and chip set that Intel designed for notebook computers can't be used in the iMac? The thermal specifications for the Core i7 Mobile and its PM55 chip set are actually perfectly fine for the iMac and Apple could place a low to mid-range discrete graphics chip off of the Core i7 Mobile's dedicated PCI-E bus and still be within the same thermal specifications as today's iMac (even today, only the low-end iMacs are using integrated graphics, the mid and high range use discrete GPUs).

If the iMac is going to be thinner it will likely be because Apple is switching to LED backlighting -- something that they pretty much have to do since Steve Jobs has already said that they would be eliminating CFLs (compact fluorescent lights) from all of their products.

Furthermore, you really think Apple is going to limit itself to using low-power, dual-core processors (i.e. Arrandale) across its entire consumer product line? How does that fit with Snow Leopard's emphasis on multi-core and multi-threading technology and OpenCL (the latter is not a good fit to Intel's existing integrated graphics technology).

Lastly, Intel's direction toward greater functional integration into the processor is not being driven by some conspiracy to exclude NVIDIA from the chip set and integrated graphics businesses (as you suggested in an earlier post). Intel is putting the graphics bus and the memory controller inside of the processor in order to improve performance, it's a key component in the evolution of processor architectures. True, this is a win-win for Intel as it does signal the end of the traditional north/south bridge chip-set architecture relied upon by NVIDIA. But the Core i7 and Arrandale bus design is clearly superior to the old front-side bus used in the Core 2 Duo and that is the principal reason for the change.

However, this does not signal the end to discrete graphics as witness to the fact that Intel has included a dedicated PCI-E bus for external graphics processors on both the Core i7 Mobile and Arrandale (it's actually built into the chip/package).

I agree with everything you've said with one exception that I think is a deal breaker.

The price per unit of the mobile i7 is extremely high. I believe that the entry level i7 mobile chip costs almost 2X as much as the current c2d used in the iMac line.

Considering that Apple have said they want to cut prices it boggles the mind that they would be able to use a part that costs double AND cut costs on the next generation.
 
No offense to the people here who have been posting for years. But sometimes us newbies do have just as much insight as you do. For instance yesterday, I was called by Apple customer relations, I ordered an 24" iMac on Sept 18/09. I called to find out if I would see it sometime before I was to old to care. They originally told me that I should expect it to ship on or before Oct 13/09. When they sent me the e-mail form about how the call went, I told Apple that I was disappointed with the wait and the lack of answers.

So Apple customer relations called yesterday to do a follow up and the agent told me that my order was due to ship on Oct 19/09. Take it for what it is worth.

Thanks man. I guess we will just have to earn our stripes before certain posters will accept us. That's cool. I was just trying to let people know what I had heard from a reliable source. I think they may be jealous because they don't have a source :eek:
 
I think all bets are off when it comes to the "Apple schedule" since they updated notebooks at the WWDC. Have they ever done that before?

Anyway,since that event wasn't so long ago I doubt the will have another and do a silent update or nothing at all until next wwdc
 
Name Watts Type Cache Speed Cost
P8400 25 C2D 3 2.26 $209.00
P8600 25 C2D 3 2.40 $209.00
P8700 25 C2D 3 2.53 $241.00
P8800 25 C2D 3 2.66 $241.00
SP9600 25 C2D 6 2.53 $316.00
T9400 35 C2D 6 2.53 $316.00
T9900 35 C2D 6 3.06 $530.00
i7-720 45 Clarksfield 6 1.60 $364.00
Xeon 45 Lynfield 8 1.86 $284.00

Let's look at some practical possibilities. Here is a list of the most likely candidates based on wattage for Mac Mini, MacBook and iMacs for processor upgrades, keeping in mind cost. I would be happy to see the P8800 or T9400 in the Mac Mini as a BTO option.
You forgot two options, the Core i7 Mobile 820 and the fact that Apple is apparently using the slightly cheaper but somewhat more power hungry Core 2 Duo E8435 in its 3.06GHz iMac (by the best accounts on the internet). So, here are those two processors:

i7-820 45W Clarksfield 8MB $546
E8435 44W C2D 6MB Cost is unknown, but probably somewhat less than the T9900.

And here is an interesting comparison on the prices, clock speeds, and cache sizes on the iMac's existing Core 2 Duos and the new Core i7 Mobiles:

Core 2 Duo E8335 or T9550, approx. $316, 2.66GHz x 2 core/2 threads, 6MB cache.
Core i7 Mobile 720, $364, 1.73GHz x 4 core/8 threads or 2.4GHz x 2 core/4 threads or 2.8GHz 1 core/2 threads, 6MB cache.

Core 2 Duo E8435 or T9900, approx. $530, 3.06GHz x 2 core/2 thread, 6MB cache.
Core i7 Mobile 820, $546, 2.0GHz x 4 core/8 threads or 2.8GHz x 2 core/4 threads or 3.06GHz 1 core/2 threads, 8MB cache.

Note that the Core i7 can dynamically switch core frequency depending upon the system load. Thus, it can run as a 4 core, or 2 core, or 1 core processor each with Intel's Hyper-Threading (supporting two threads per core). The Core 2 Duo operates at fixed frequencies and can only run one thread per core. Furthermore, Intel's Hyper-Threading actually works and can provide performance boosts in the 5% to 10% range with applications that are optimized for multi-threading.

Given the above, I would expect that the new Core i7 Mobile processors would outperform the iMac's existing Core 2 Duos under practically all situations. The performance improvements would be greatest when running multi-threaded applications but even in the most basic one or two thread situations I would expect that the Core i7 Mobile would hold its own against the Core 2 Duo.
 
So Apple customer relations called yesterday to do a follow up and the agent told me that my order was due to ship on Oct 19/09. Take it for what it is worth.

Salespeople will tell you anything just to get rid of you (once they've made the sale of course). Other people have reported similar stories over the last few weeks with earlier shipping dates. All the salespeople are really saying is "go away and phone us back if it's still not there in a week".
 
And here is an interesting comparison on the prices, clock speeds, and cache sizes on the iMac's existing Core 2 Duos and the new Core i7 Mobiles:

Core 2 Duo E8335 or T9550, approx. $316, 2.66GHz x 2 core/2 threads, 6MB cache.
Core i7 Mobile 720, $364, 1.73GHz x 4 core/8 threads or 2.4GHz x 2 core/4 threads or 2.8GHz 1 core/2 threads, 6MB cache.

Core 2 Duo E8435 or T9900, approx. $530, 3.06GHz x 2 core/2 thread, 6MB cache.
Core i7 Mobile 820, $546, 2.0GHz x 4 core/8 threads or 2.8GHz x 2 core/4 threads or 3.06GHz 1 core/2 threads, 8MB cache.

you have the GHz(s) wrong 2.0Ghz Core i7 over $1000, 1.6 and 1.73 GHz are viable. and YES the newer core i7 mobile are best single core, dual core and quad cores (as stated by anandtech) ...
 
I agree with everything you've said with one exception that I think is a deal breaker.

The price per unit of the mobile i7 is extremely high. I believe that the entry level i7 mobile chip costs almost 2X as much as the current c2d used in the iMac line.

Considering that Apple have said they want to cut prices it boggles the mind that they would be able to use a part that costs double AND cut costs on the next generation.
No one really knows what Apple is paying for the Core 2 Duos that are used in the iMac. The cost for the T9800 (2.93GHz) and T9900 (3.06GHz) Core 2 Duos are actually pretty close to the Core i7 820QM. However, it is reported that Apple may be using the E8335 (2.93GHz) and slightly less power efficient E8435 (3.06GHz) Core 2 Duos in the iMac line and I can find no reference that gives prices for those parts (they aren't even listed by Intel, rumored to be a special part used only by Apple).

The price quoted by Intel for the T9800 and T9900 is $530 and the cost of the E-series Core 2 Duo that is nearest to those two, the E8400, is $163. However, that particular E-series chip has a thermal design point (TDP) of 65W which means that it is unlikely to be used in the current iMacs. This is where the above referenced E8335 and E8435 come in because they have a reported TDP of just 35W and 44W (respectively). So, we have four possibilities and most likely four price points. It goes like this (all Core 2 Duos with TDP and prices):

T9900/T9800 35W $530

E8400 65W $163

E8335 35W $$$$ (unknown)
E8435 44W $$$$ (unknown)

I suspect that the E8335 and E8435 parts are priced more closely to the high end of this range than they are to the 65W E8400.

In any case, yes, the new Core i7 Mobile processors will likely be more expensive than what Apple is using in the current iMac. However, the price difference is most likely not double as you've suggested (can you give a reliable reference?).

Interestingly, the TDP on the T-series Core 2 Duo + memory and i/o controllers is 44.5W while the Core i7 Mobile + platform controller is 48.5W. This means that the system controllers on the Core 2 Duos add 9.5W versus a 3.5W increase on the Core i7 Mobile processor.

In fact, let's look at the thermal design points for T and E-series Core 2 Duos with their memory controller (MCH) and i/o controller (ICH) versus the new Core i7 Mobile with its platform controller (PCH):

Core 2 Duo T9900 + MCH + ICH = 44.5W
Core 2 Duo E8435 + MCH + ICH = 53.5W
Core 2 Duo E8400 + MCH + ICH = 74.5W
Core i7 Mobile + PCH = 48.5W

This means that if Apple is using the Core 2 Duo E8435 then the new Core i7 Mobile processor with platform controller is actually the lower power solution for the high-end iMac with discrete graphics. It also makes the low-cost, but highly unlikely E8400 option look like real power hog (74.5W versus only 48.5W with the Core i7 Mobile).

I think I've just proven that a thin enclosure using the Core i7 Mobile is a definite possibility. In any case, the TDP is only an approximation of what the true power draw and cooling will require. But given the above the Core i7 Mobile actually looks pretty good.

As for costs, the Core i7 720QM with its platform controller is $404 while the higher-end Core i7 820QM with its platform controller is $586. The high-end 3.06GHz T9900 with its controllers is $569 -- a difference of only $17 from the Core i7 820QM (again, with the caveat that Apple may be using the E8435 rather than the T9900).

Here are these system chip-set prices in a table-like format:

Core i7 720QM + PCH = $404
Core 2 Duo T9900/T9800 + MCH + ICH = $569
Core i7 820QM + PCH = $586

This leaves only the current low-end 2.66GHz iMac with its integrated NVIDIA 9400M graphics chip set. Again, we don't know what Apple is paying for their Core 2 Duos and I've never seen a price quote on the 9400M (but it is reported to be a fairly expensive integrated graphics solution -- after all it was and continues to be the best in that category).

However, the 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo T9550 is listed at $316 and Apple may even be using an older version of the E8335 that ran at 2.66GHz and which is reported to have a TDP of 44W (that could make it less expensive than the T9550). In any case, Apple is almost certainly paying over $316 for the low-end iMac chip set (Core 2 Duo + NVIDIA 9400M), but this looks like a price that will be hard to match with the Core i7 Mobile (because of the starting price on the Core i7 720QM and the fact that the Core i7 can't use an integrated graphics solution like the NVIDIA 9400M). This is one reason why I've suggested that Apple might keep the current Core 2 Duo and NVIDIA 9400M at the low-end of the iMac line-up. Thus, you'd have the Core 2 Duo and 9400M on the low-end (perhaps using the existing motherboard from the current iMacs) and the Core i7 Mobile in the mid and high-end with discrete graphics and a totally redesigned motherboard and case.
 
you have the GHz(s) wrong 2.0Ghz Core i7 over $1000, 1.6 and 1.73 GHz are viable. and YES the newer core i7 mobile are best single core, dual core and quad cores (as stated by anandtech) ...
Actually, no, those GHz equivalents are correct for the quad-core Turbo Boost Technology. The Core i7 720QM is "listed" as a 1.6GHz core clock but it can run the quad-core in Turbo Boost at a maximum of 1.73GHz. Same situation with the 820QM, it is "listed" as 1.73GHz but it runs the quad-core in Turbo Mode at a maximum of 2.0GHz. In fact, the Core i7 920XM is listed with a core clock of 2.0GHz but it runs the quad-core Turbo Boost at a maximum of 2.26GHz.

You can reference this in the September 2009 specification revisions from Intel (page 16, table 1, "Processor Identifications").

http://download.intel.com/design/processor/specupdt/320767.pdf

Or, just check out the Turbo Boost graphic for the Core i7 920XM over on Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3647&p=2

This is one reason why it is kind of tricky to talk about GHz equivalents for the Core i7 Mobile. For example, the 720QM is neither a 1.6GHz processor, nor is it a 1.73GHz processsor, nor is it a 2.4GHz or 2.8GHz processor. However, with Turbo Boost active it can run all four cores at a maximum of 1.73GHz, not the 1.6GHz core clock.

The only question that seems to be somewhat undefined is what happens with the Hyper-Threading when these maximum Turbo Boost modes are active.
 
Apple reports 4th quarter earnings on Monday, October 19th at 5:00 PM ET. In the past, Apple has not released new hardware during the same week as they report earnings.
 
You forgot two options, the Core i7 Mobile 820 and the fact that Apple is apparently using the slightly cheaper but somewhat more power hungry Core 2 Duo E8435 in its 3.06GHz iMac (by the best accounts on the internet). So, here are those two processors:

i7-820 45W Clarksfield 8MB $546
E8435 44W C2D 6MB Cost is unknown, but probably somewhat less than the T9900.
.

Thank you for your expanded response. But as one poster pointed out, I can't see Apple buying a processor over $500 to put into Mac Mini or iMac computers that range from $599 to $1500 in final price. And if the iMac version is going to go over $2,000, well that's just out of the price range of the market right now.
 
Apple reports 4th quarter earnings on Monday, October 19th at 5:00 PM ET. In the past, Apple has not released new hardware during the same week as they report earnings.

They released Final Cut Studio and Logic Studio a few days after the last earning.

From what I remember no new products are released a week or two BEFORE the earnings reports come out.

I sill think there can be an event on the 20th, centered around Desktops.

Thank you for your expanded response. But as one poster pointed out, I can't see Apple buying a processor over $500 to put into Mac Mini or iMac computers that range from $599 to $1500 in final price. And if the iMac version is going to go over $2,000, well that's just out of the price range of the market right now.

The current top of the line iMac goes for over $2000, so it is completely plausible that they would offer a high end quad-core extreme 2.0ghz chip in the upper-most model. I would opt for it personally so long as it stays under $2500.
 
Thus, you'd have the Core 2 Duo and 9400M on the low-end (perhaps using the existing motherboard from the current iMacs) and the Core i7 Mobile in the mid and high-end with discrete graphics and a totally redesigned motherboard and case.

This is the part that is difficult to swallow. I suppose that Apple could make two different motherboards fit into a new enclosure, but they have not done it before that I am aware of in the iMac line. It also leaves questions about the thinner argument, which might, or might not be achieved through elimination of CFLs in the display.

This leaves us with a 2nd option, which is that the current iMac soldiers on at a new price point and Apple releases an "iMac Air" or whatever they end up calling it. Basically a split in the iMac line similar to the split in the Macbook line.

I think that this is more probable than them designing two different enclosures for a new iMac or designing an enclosure for the new iMac that can accommodate multiple motherboards/chipsets.

Another problem with the i7 speculation is that Apple would have to source very cost effective GPU options for the higher end iMacs that have these i7 chips in them that could perform as well or better than the current Nvidia offerings.

The 4850 and possibly the 4870 are options, but I can't find the unit price on either of them. Pretty sure they will cost a bit more then the current Nvidia offerings. Apple could continue to offer Nvidia graphics cards on the PCI-X bus of a new machine but it seems hard to believe that they will continue the partnership with the current environment at Intel, especially in lieu of partnership for very early introduction of light peak technology next year with Intel.

At the end of the day I would love it if you were right, especially if a matte screen option and Blu-Ray ROM was in the picture.

It would be interesting to see a split in the iMac line with an entry level $999 and $1299 iMac to get people into the Apple fold and a $1799-$2299 option for the tech junkies (like many of us here) who would love a more powerful and capable machine in the iMac form factor.

One thing that just occurred to me, re: pricing, is that in exchange for some patent rights on Light Peak Intel might have made Apple a very sweet deal to move onto i7 and get Nvidia out of the picture. Let's hope it's true.
 
It also leaves questions about the thinner argument, which might, or might not be achieved through elimination of CFLs in the display.
I'm very confident we won't see CCFL in apple produtcs ever.

This leaves us with a 2nd option, which is that the current iMac soldiers on at a new price point and Apple releases an "iMac Air" or whatever they end up calling it. Basically a split in the iMac line similar to the split in the Macbook line.

This would be non-sense for a desktop.
It can make (little) sense to shrink a desktop for design sake of the whole line, but splitting the line makes no sense, Apple doesn't introduce unnecessary splittings like this.
For the Air it was different 'cause it's a portable.
But for the iMac, why would anybody pick the slimmer-pricier one? I mean, some people WOULD pick it, but it would be a useless and confusing splitting, Apple usually doesn't do stuff like that......
 
Dear all! I am new here, just decided to switch from PC to Mac... I wanted to buy Macbook pro 15 for 1699 + antiglare screen next week but following all the news I am confident that Apple is to release new iMac and macbook on Oct 20th...

Please let me know, do you think this will lower the current prices for Macbook pro??

I am in NY on October 20th - is it crowded during the first days of new stuff coming out?

Thanks in advance!!

PS. If anyone visited 5th ave. Apple Store lately PLEASE let me know is antiglare macbook pro available there??
 
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