The 2019 iMacs don’t have a T2 chip. It’s going to be a while before they can require T2 to run macOS.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
'OpenCore Computer' Launches Commercial Hackintosh in Violation of Apple's macOS Licensing Agreement [Updated]
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I wrote a bit of a rambling "Apples to Trolling, Hackintosh Community-Destroying Profiteers" price comparison at https://pcpartpicker.com/user/juanejot/saved/grBCzy . Note that while I acknowledge that these opportunistic jerks might be gouging even more of a profit than they indicate through sub-standard component choices, I did not go down the rabbit hole of exactly how bad it might be.
It does appear, even with fairly good "base-model" components, to be a higher profit margin for these jerks than the chart of Apple's historical overall as on https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/net-profit-margin (not just Mac, sorry) net profit margin would indicate, even if these obviously-not-philanthropists pay the wages & benefits for workers to take the time to build each system they sell and then physically install a bootloader & dual OSes on each individual one (which is not the most efficient method). Keep in mind that this is a profit margin for them alone, with Apple and the Hackintosh community having done all the work, other than physically putting together these systems we'll most likely never see, once the Bitcoin gets into their account. So that profit margin could be 100%, before their site simply disappears.
Apple makes money by selling Macs, as they are licensed to. Nobody in particular* gets hurt by macOS running on non-licensed hardware. Selling non-licensed hardware with macOS pre-installed is directly legally challengeable, and also exacerbates the position of people who have put their own time and ingenuity into figuring out and forming a community^ around how to get their own systems to run a compelling OS they believe should be one among many choices for their hardware. Just as with PsyStar, Apple has to have a legal response, and that could affect all who love macOS, particularly those who don't love the price or the electrical/thermal management of Mac hardware.
Hopefully that legal response, if there has to be one, takes the form more of updates to the EULA such that if running macOS on a system that is not an Apple Mac, the user is ineligible for AppleCare or Genius Bar-like support on their non-Apple hardware, and may need to pay a small nominal fee to download (or as in the Windows 10 ecosystem, to “activate” a few cosmetic or experience-enhancing features, none of them operationally critical). The alternative at the other end of the spectrum would be to leave people who already have macOS installed on non-Apple hardware either fully locked out of their own systems and personal data, or unable to take advantage of security updates to protect these same highly personal properties. Such actions would of course further sour many users on Apple's business practices, all because some profiteering jerks forced Apple's hand.
*Definitely not Apple with its currently iOS/iPadOS/tvOS/services-driven profit model, acknowledging that the balance of that profit stream may change slightly depending on the success of future ARM-based Macs, but also acknowledging that Apple is largely responsible for the fact that mobile is here to stay.
^Meanwhile, these jerks have slapped the community and the developers responsible for a leading bootloader in the face, by stealing the name and logo (if not the actual use of it, as their machines are likely Bitcoin-hoarding vaporware) of said bootloader.
It does appear, even with fairly good "base-model" components, to be a higher profit margin for these jerks than the chart of Apple's historical overall as on https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/net-profit-margin (not just Mac, sorry) net profit margin would indicate, even if these obviously-not-philanthropists pay the wages & benefits for workers to take the time to build each system they sell and then physically install a bootloader & dual OSes on each individual one (which is not the most efficient method). Keep in mind that this is a profit margin for them alone, with Apple and the Hackintosh community having done all the work, other than physically putting together these systems we'll most likely never see, once the Bitcoin gets into their account. So that profit margin could be 100%, before their site simply disappears.
Apple makes money by selling Macs, as they are licensed to. Nobody in particular* gets hurt by macOS running on non-licensed hardware. Selling non-licensed hardware with macOS pre-installed is directly legally challengeable, and also exacerbates the position of people who have put their own time and ingenuity into figuring out and forming a community^ around how to get their own systems to run a compelling OS they believe should be one among many choices for their hardware. Just as with PsyStar, Apple has to have a legal response, and that could affect all who love macOS, particularly those who don't love the price or the electrical/thermal management of Mac hardware.
Hopefully that legal response, if there has to be one, takes the form more of updates to the EULA such that if running macOS on a system that is not an Apple Mac, the user is ineligible for AppleCare or Genius Bar-like support on their non-Apple hardware, and may need to pay a small nominal fee to download (or as in the Windows 10 ecosystem, to “activate” a few cosmetic or experience-enhancing features, none of them operationally critical). The alternative at the other end of the spectrum would be to leave people who already have macOS installed on non-Apple hardware either fully locked out of their own systems and personal data, or unable to take advantage of security updates to protect these same highly personal properties. Such actions would of course further sour many users on Apple's business practices, all because some profiteering jerks forced Apple's hand.
*Definitely not Apple with its currently iOS/iPadOS/tvOS/services-driven profit model, acknowledging that the balance of that profit stream may change slightly depending on the success of future ARM-based Macs, but also acknowledging that Apple is largely responsible for the fact that mobile is here to stay.
^Meanwhile, these jerks have slapped the community and the developers responsible for a leading bootloader in the face, by stealing the name and logo (if not the actual use of it, as their machines are likely Bitcoin-hoarding vaporware) of said bootloader.
Last edited:
Number 1 can not be improved as long as iMac is an AIO desktop. It has to compromise too much on the cooling system because of its size. Do you even know the size of the CPU and GPU coolers? I guess you dont. iMac Pro might look better but again, it's not that good compared to a normal desktop with a proper cooling system. It is pathetic to call iMac as a desktop since the cooling system isn't enough to run faster.
Number 2 will be solved soon. I'm sure.
Number 3 is meaningless cause it's not iMac! We are talking about iMac here, not Mac Pro. Also, How much is it to buy Mac Pro? It starts at $6000 for PCIe slots! It is ridiculous. There is no way to expand through PCIe slots without Mac Pro. TB3 PCIe slot is a joke.
And you need to check how many Windows desktops available compared to iMac. It's nothing compared to the PC desktop.
The word you're looking for is 'traditional'. And, quite frankly, the traditional PC remains only for the "hardcore gamers" and faux hardcore gamers mainly because they feel the need to upgrade hardware and push performance constantly whether sensible or habitual. Honestly, most instances are about benchmark gloating -- but, whatever, everyone has a vice.
1. See the earlier quote response.
2. Y-e-a-h... I can't disagree with this point. HDDs are fine for backup and probably general storage -- though I'd suggest a RAID for extra reliability.
3. Again, see the earlier quote response... But also... TB3 does accomplish what most people need. An additional 5 FPS, etc pis****g contests aside, expansion cards are no longer for the general computer user, they're for enterprise and ultra-high-end professionals that have systems they won't upgrade for maybe a decade. The typical user and average pro know what they need, realize they're best off buying a system that's a bit beyond their current requirements for future-proofing, then replacing the main or entire system every half-decade or so because it is more cost-effective.
P.S. I have an HP Envy, a "thin" laptop, with a quad-core i7. When I put it under heavy load, I know the single fan cooling system is absolutely holding it back, but that's a known compromise. Just like gamers know their laptop is going to be a 'tank' for larger heatsinks, larger battery, etc; in other words, akin to the bulky portables of the '90s. There is no perfect one device does/for all. It's not possible.
Apple doesn’t care if you upgrade your Hackintosh. Apple does not decide whether to keep features based on whether Hackintosh users are using them. What are you even talking about?
If someone is stupid enough to send this company money they deserve to be scammed 😂
I have a 2018MBP - but i would ABSOLUTELY day-one purchase MacOS for my PC if they ever did it. And they're not 'losing' a mac sale as i'm not replacing my PC with an iMac for a number of reasons. It's $200 extra in their pocket from me they otherwise would never get.
I don't think they'll do it anytime soon, if ever - but you can never rule out a day where they're so heavilly reliant on 'services' to keep increasing their revenue that they'll offer MacOS on other platforms just to get people into their appstore, appletv+ etc.
Considering how many problems people experience running macOS on the hardware configurations Apple does produce - hardware configurations they have complete control over - I honestly shudder to think how it would be if they sold macOS for use with "home-brew hardware" configurations using off-the-shelf parts.
I would say soon except, as far as I'm aware, the iMac (non "Pro") has yet to gain the T2, and I don't foresee Apple not supporting the most recently released generation iMac with the next major version of macOS or even the immediate successor
I know it's not Hackintosh but rather alternate platform... With the rising prices of Apple hardware I've very strongly considered trying some recent iterations of Linux distros, such as Fedora -- which I've read and heard has a respectable mainstream GUI -- however, I wouldn't want to be limited to the Web versions of iCloud, Mail, iWork apps, etc plus will need Xcode or some other authorized iOS development tool not too far into the future. Basically, just makiing the point that -- and I'm certain I'm not the only one -- Mac users have strongly contemplated jumping to Linux and perhaps companies should focus more on that.
If it is from China, then there is nothing they can do.
(Or maybe Tim Cook, that has been so friendly with Chinese government, can ask them to "do something about it").
(Or maybe Tim Cook, that has been so friendly with Chinese government, can ask them to "do something about it").
Sure there is. They can have the ITC stop them at the border. They can sue in China. Lots of things.
That shows how much Apple cares about its computer line up.
all the upgrade cycles became the joke of the street while paying premium prices...
iMac has not been updated for over 10 years (external design), Mac Pro for 6, MacBook Pro with a failed keyboard for 4 years, etc...
Sad... Really sad.
[automerge]1592093081[/automerge]
If Jobs were still around, we would have much better designed computers at better prices, and we would not be even paying attention to this hackintoshes.
Interesting perspective.
But would you rather have an Intel integrated GPU at the same price though?
Then people would accuse Apple of ripping us off.
Please note, I am not trying to defend Apple at all. Just trying to ask some honest questions for discussion.
Yes, Apple could also notify U.S. Customs to seize the goods before entering the country.
My buns have no seedsI guess the McDowells figured it out...
It is somewhat saddening to think that revisionist history might paint Jobs-era Apple as just as much of a "premium" brand as they try and market it as today. Jobs didn't really try to communicate to customers that Apple was a "premium" brand, i.e. "this computer is going to be really expensive, is only for premium users, and here's why". He more communicated that "this computer is a steal that anyone can take advantage of, you are buying something in a price range of its competitors and in fact it blows them out of the water and here's why".
Apple does NOT make an affordable and expandable Mac tower, which is clearly and obviously what the original poster what talking about. The iMac and Mac Mini are not expandable towers, and the Mac Pro is for the filthy rich. As such, there is a gap in Apple’s product line that capitalists are trying to fill. If Apple addresses those Mac users will powerful towers that at prices right, this hackintosh seller would not exist.
And as to the ridiculous comment that mocked someone by saying it’s 2020 and what 32-bit apps are you running, I rebut that remark with this. It’s 2020 but USB-A is still in broader use than USB-C. So it doesn’t matter if some people say USB-C is superior or Catalina is superior. What matters is what we MAC users WANT to use, regardless of reason.
I’m all for Apple making progress, but I will only buy new machines or install an OS when I feel it benefits me without sacrificing what I deem to be “practical and vital functionality.” You folks are free to disagree with me. But your own use cases or blind defending of Apple in no way whatsoever will magically change my own wants and desires for the Mac.
Apple does listen to our cries as evidenced by the fact that stupid butterfly keyboard is now gone. But Apple still isn’t completely in touch with the wants and needs of its faithful users. I love Apple. But I want to love them more, like I did back in the day when I was on Guy Kawasaki’s EvangeList and nothing compared to the greatness of the Mac in my mind. I am not asking for the world... Just a bit more than Apple gives us now. Make the Mac Great Again!
There are other options available for iMac if they don't consider it as a desktop. Most AIO desktops use mobile CPU and/or GPU btw. AMD APU would be a great option since it has a powerful GPU but at this point, I highly doubt it since they are moving to ARM architecture. iMac is rumored to have RX 5700 which has TDP 180W. For that, you need a huge cooler. And yet iMac has to sacrifice its performance due to high temperature. Both CPU and GPU are connected with one heat sink and then cooled by one fan. It's such a bad design for the cooling solution. You must check the size of both CPU and GPU coolers for PC desktops.
If they gonna sacrifice the performance for AIO desktops, then why not making a normal desktop like Mac Pro? It's a simple solution and yet Apple is going a hard way to create a desktop. PC desktops are much cheaper with better cooling solutions. This is something that I can not understand for several years.
This is why Mac desktop isn't popular especially compared to PC desktops in the world.
And complicated for Apple as well. Taking responsibility for both the CPU and software.
It’s kinda a good thing Apple is only a boutique brand in the scale of things where it comes to computers. With Windows and Intel running on most personal computers, to most of the mission critical systems in the world, that’s a heavy burden shared by two of the worlds biggest mega companies.
Why found a company based on a (hysterically misguided) belief that an event that has not occurred yet — and there have been zero signals of it potentially ever occurring — will occur in the next couple weeks?Maybe this company knows something we don't. Maybe Apple is going to make an announcement at WWDC that it is opening its EULA to allow people to buy their OS and install it on anything they like.
Goodness.
A simpler explanation exists: It’s illegal, they know it’s illegal, and they don’t care.
Steve was not afraid of expensive "premium" computers - 20th Anniversary Macintosh, NeXT, etc.
I got news for you Macrumors. OpenCore Computer has some serious competition. Check out Macstorm based in Krakow Poland and ships to the US and other countries. It has fourteen different build listings on eBay and three different do it yourself kits.
macstorm.eu
Komputery Macstorm kompatybilne z Mac Pro, iMac, Mac mini
hackintosh , iMac, Mac Pro , apple, mac, Mac Pro , Mac mini, iMAc, Mojave ,High Sierra , apple store, apple, MacOS
Skeptical about the legitimacy of this, but in the end I do hope that eventually someone comes along and beats Apple in court about the legality of building clones. It would simply be great to have competition in the Mac hardware market. Imagine how fast Apple would have fixed that damned keyboard if there had been an alternative Mac OS compatible laptop for sale that had a keyboard that wasn't a piece of crap? But Apple has a lock on the hardware market (unless you are really fringe and want to cobble together your own Hackintosh) and thus were able to continue selling laptops with fundamentally unsuited for purpose keyboards for, what was it, 5 years? Something like that! Look at what's happening with GPUs and CPUs, as soon as AMD really got their act together Nvidia and Intel have had to step it up too; or reduce pricing. Competition is good, and it would be good for all of us is Apple had even a little bit of competition when it comes to Mac OS based computers.
Last edited: