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By the looks of things, Apple marketing is triumphant once again. The new iphone hasn't even been announced yet and the rumors have already beat the hell out of the launch of Palm Pre. Seriously, I wouldn't be so surprised if the all these increments of leaks of the new iphone was strategically planned by Apple marketing department.

I really don't see the reason to buy the Pre when Apple is most likely to announce its next best thing 2 days after the launch. These rumors have played a big part in swaying the general public to wait for the WWDC and hold off on their consideration of a Pre.
 
Johansen reveals confirmation of the Pre's use of the emulation method, also noting that Palm's implementation of the technique would allow Apple to easily block iTunes syncing with the Pre in the future should it choose to do so.

While no doubt technically practical, it would run afoul of EU laws if not USA laws.

I suppose Apple could have geographic localization of this "feature".

Pre: You rip it, it runs it. Not necessarily you iTunes buy it, it runs it. We'll see. Soon. :)

Rocketman
 
itunes worked with my rio...

way back when itunes first came out, before the ipod, i could sync my rio mp3 player with it. itunes recognized it without issue. once i got my first ipod (on 10/23/01), both worked, and the rio worked with all versions of itunes that i tried it with until it (the rio) broke a few years later.

since then i haven't had any non-ipod devices so i don't know when they stopped allowing syncing compatibility. why would they go out of their way to prevent using other devices?
 
By the looks of things, Apple marketing is triumphant once again. The new iphone hasn't even been announced yet and the rumors have already beat the hell out of the launch of Palm Pre.

These rumors have played a big part in swaying the general public to wait for the WWDC and hold off on their consideration of a Pre.

On the other hand, Pre has received mass recognition off iPhone interest so it was a win for an otherwise less "interesting" player in terms of buzz and press.

Rocketman

Kudos to Pre PR.

It won't be irrelevant till later. :)
 
It's already been finalized. Apple released iTunes 8.2 a few days ago.

The Pre syncing story only broke a week or so ago. iTunes 8.2 development would have been frozen before that to give enough QA time before release.

Apple is just waiting for the Pre to be launched and on sale. Then they will release 8.2.1 with the Pre killer. Palm will have to explain to all of their customers why they can't sync with itunes anymore. Seems kind of stupid of Palm to hijack a competitor's product like this. It can only cause them trouble... assuming anyone actually buys a Pre after the iphone is released.
 
This forum just keeps getting more, and more disappointing.

Granted this is a Apple-specific forum and is going to attract that crowd, it is however unfortunate that so many of you display so little intelligence or common sense. You immediately start throwing **** at everything not showing a shining light on Apple.

The Pre isn't **** until you've thoroughly used it, and guess what, even the Apple fanboys that have used it generally like the device. Some snark at the WebOS and web apps. But guess what? iPhone did that do (sans WebOS).

As it has been discussed before, Multi Touch has prior art. I would love to see Apple try to take Palm to court over it, would be interesting to say the least.

There is no infringement on emulating the iPod or another other device to get it to sync with iTunes. To those spouting for Palm to create their own app; Why? I own a mac because I want seamless integration as much as possible. Pre syncing with iTunes, via emulating an iPod or other means is fine with me if it is seamless. Adding another application would just be cumbersome and clunky. This is not the Mac way, pull your head out of your ass and see reason and try throwing in some logic while you're at it.

The iPhone is a great tool, and no doubt so is the Pre. Just because it doesn't have the famed Apple logo doesn't make it any less valuable.

I realize I probably ask too much of an online, Apple centric forum; but I can still hope to see glimpses of intelligent life here, and even more rare: intelligent conversation.
 
This forum just keeps getting more, and more disappointing.

Granted this is a Apple-specific forum and is going to attract that crowd, it is however unfortunate that so many of you display so little intelligence or common sense. You immediately start throwing **** at everything not showing a shining light on Apple.

The Pre isn't **** until you've thoroughly used it, and guess what, even the Apple fanboys that have used it generally like the device. Some snark at the WebOS and web apps. But guess what? iPhone did that do (sans WebOS).

As it has been discussed before, Multi Touch has prior art. I would love to see Apple try to take Palm to court over it, would be interesting to say the least.

There is no infringement on emulating the iPod or another other device to get it to sync with iTunes. To those spouting for Palm to create their own app; Why? I own a mac because I want seamless integration as much as possible. Pre syncing with iTunes, via emulating an iPod or other means is fine with me if it is seamless. Adding another application would just be cumbersome and clunky. This is not the Mac way, pull your head out of your ass and see reason and try throwing in some logic while you're at it.

The iPhone is a great tool, and no doubt so is the Pre. Just because it doesn't have the famed Apple logo doesn't make it any less valuable.

I realize I probably ask too much of an online, Apple centric forum; but I can still hope to see glimpses of intelligent life here, and even more rare: intelligent conversation.

You didn't read the article, did you?

The UI is not the thing in question here.

What is in question is Pre's mode of syncing with iTunes, which makes itself use Apple's own USB device ID. Spoofing another company's device ID is illegal according to the USB consortium.

The Pre looks like a pretty good device, but Palm may have shot themselves in the foot with this illegal method.
 
This forum just keeps getting more, and more disappointing.

Granted this is a Apple-specific forum and is going to attract that crowd, it is however unfortunate that so many of you display so little intelligence or common sense. You immediately start throwing **** at everything not showing a shining light on Apple.

The Pre isn't **** until you've thoroughly used it, and guess what, even the Apple fanboys that have used it generally like the device. Some snark at the WebOS and web apps. But guess what? iPhone did that do (sans WebOS).

As it has been discussed before, Multi Touch has prior art. I would love to see Apple try to take Palm to court over it, would be interesting to say the least.

There is no infringement on emulating the iPod or another other device to get it to sync with iTunes. To those spouting for Palm to create their own app; Why? I own a mac because I want seamless integration as much as possible. Pre syncing with iTunes, via emulating an iPod or other means is fine with me if it is seamless. Adding another application would just be cumbersome and clunky. This is not the Mac way, pull your head out of your ass and see reason and try throwing in some logic while you're at it.

The iPhone is a great tool, and no doubt so is the Pre. Just because it doesn't have the famed Apple logo doesn't make it any less valuable.

I realize I probably ask too much of an online, Apple centric forum; but I can still hope to see glimpses of intelligent life here, and even more rare: intelligent conversation.



In terms of consumers you're right. But why would Apple let Palm get away with this? It is literally trying to sell the product off the back of Apple's hard work. Apple have every right to block the Pre from itunes syncing.

It doesn't matter how seamless you want things to be. It's never going to happen. The Pre might be a good product. With all the hype, Palm didn't even need itunes sync for it to be a successful product. They could have relied on the standard drag and drop folder system. In my opinion it was a pretty greedy, selfish thing to do. If they had the consumer in mind, maybe it could be seen as being a good move, but does any company really have the consumer in mind these days?
 
They can make a serious dent ...

Um. No, they can't.

The sabre rattling began some time back on the gesturing. Apple could probably outspend Pre on legal battles, as they are on the ropes now. Legal battles are often wars of money attrition. I was once in a position similar to Palm - my company was making a similar product to a competitors that we did not believe violated patents. It was shut down (after about $3M spent), even though violations were never proved. It simply became too much of a hassle to continue. I kind of doubt this will happen with Palm and Apple. I think they will "just all get along."

Pre is at Apple's mercy on syncing with iTunes - if the Pre proves a serious competitor, Apple might kill this function. Apple does have the temptation of adding more iTunes customers by leaving things as is - it is a gamble on Palm's part to sell this feature they cannot control. It is also hard to believe Apple didn't know this long before we did.
 
I think Apple should take it as a complement. Not only is it a dig at Microsoft for choosing to use the Apple software instead of syncing with WiMP, but it will improve sales for Apple.

Dad goes out and buys a new Pre for work. He comes home, syncs with iTunes, and is happy. Maybe he sets up a half dozen playlists and buys a few songs. Not a big deal for Apple at all, but a couple bucks. The big money comes a few months later when the kids want a media player. Guess what will be top on the list? Not a zune, that's for sure. They'll want something that works seamlessly with the iTunes software they are already using.

Definitely a win for Palm and a win for Apple.
 
If Apple tries to stop this, Palm will take them to court for anti-competitive practices. Look at all the other major media players: WMP, Real, Winamp. They all sync with tons of players and phones. Yet iTunes restricts it to a few select products, mostly made by Apple.

Whether or not Palm is breaking some EULA or whatever, Apple can't win in the end. They do not have a patent on syncing devices to iTunes.
 
I don't understand why people are saying that if Apple blocks the Pre from syncing with iTunes they are breaking some EU or US laws. First it is Apple's software and they can do what they want with it. Second doesn't Apple already block other MP3 players from syncing with iTunes? If so this is the same as that.
 
Um. No, they can't.

Um. Yes they, can.

The fact alone that it displays an image of an iPod when syncing to iTunes is using the likeness and image of a product. The image of the iPod is owned by Apple. They have threatened lawsuit before when others have used that image or any word that has slightly resembles the word "iPod" which Apple also owns and which the Pre also displays when syncing.

It's not as if this is some kind of bug in iTunes. Palm is intentionally masquerading as such. They are using the vendor ID.


It is a hack.

I personally would love to see easy Mac syncing with the Pre (and every other smartphone). This wouldnt necessarily have to be via iTunes but I would love to be able to connect my next smartphone to my MacBook and have hassle free syncing.

It shouldn't be too hard. They have so many Apple people working over there already.
 
This forum just keeps getting more, and more disappointing.

Granted this is a Apple-specific forum and is going to attract that crowd, it is however unfortunate that so many of you display so little intelligence or common sense. You immediately start throwing **** at everything not showing a shining light on Apple.

The Pre isn't **** until you've thoroughly used it, and guess what, even the Apple fanboys that have used it generally like the device. Some snark at the WebOS and web apps. But guess what? iPhone did that do (sans WebOS).

As it has been discussed before, Multi Touch has prior art. I would love to see Apple try to take Palm to court over it, would be interesting to say the least.

There is no infringement on emulating the iPod or another other device to get it to sync with iTunes. To those spouting for Palm to create their own app; Why? I own a mac because I want seamless integration as much as possible. Pre syncing with iTunes, via emulating an iPod or other means is fine with me if it is seamless. Adding another application would just be cumbersome and clunky. This is not the Mac way, pull your head out of your ass and see reason and try throwing in some logic while you're at it.

The iPhone is a great tool, and no doubt so is the Pre. Just because it doesn't have the famed Apple logo doesn't make it any less valuable.

I realize I probably ask too much of an online, Apple centric forum; but I can still hope to see glimpses of intelligent life here, and even more rare: intelligent conversation.

AMEN. Thank you.

Seriously it sickens me how blind and robotic some of these fanboys are. I LOVE Apple myself but even I don't see a point in making iTunes "iPod/iPhone only". It reeks of elitism - Like they think to themselves, "Ha! You bought an MP3 player that isn't Apple? **** YOU!"

That's so immature and selfish.
 
This forum just keeps getting more, and more disappointing.

Granted this is a Apple-specific forum and is going to attract that crowd, it is however unfortunate that so many of you display so little intelligence or common sense. You immediately start throwing **** at everything not showing a shining light on Apple.

The Pre isn't **** until you've thoroughly used it, and guess what, even the Apple fanboys that have used it generally like the device. Some snark at the WebOS and web apps. But guess what? iPhone did that do (sans WebOS).

As it has been discussed before, Multi Touch has prior art. I would love to see Apple try to take Palm to court over it, would be interesting to say the least.

There is no infringement on emulating the iPod or another other device to get it to sync with iTunes. To those spouting for Palm to create their own app; Why? I own a mac because I want seamless integration as much as possible. Pre syncing with iTunes, via emulating an iPod or other means is fine with me if it is seamless. Adding another application would just be cumbersome and clunky. This is not the Mac way, pull your head out of your ass and see reason and try throwing in some logic while you're at it.

The iPhone is a great tool, and no doubt so is the Pre. Just because it doesn't have the famed Apple logo doesn't make it any less valuable.

I realize I probably ask too much of an online, Apple centric forum; but I can still hope to see glimpses of intelligent life here, and even more rare: intelligent conversation.

A) nobody called the Pre anything as far as I remember, certainly not a curse word.
B) no one mentioned copyright infringement for multitouch either. Especially seeing how Palm has a lot of patents Apple seems to be using for iphone. I understood it more about infringing copyright by impersonating an apple product to an apple program.

C) intelligent conversation? Well I dont usually come to message boards looking for intelligent conversation ;-) But itunes is apples music management and sync software crown jewel, I think we all agree. It is designed to do the same thing OSX does...move apple hardware for profits. If other companies start using it, without Apples permission, then that would be illegal. Write a program, and you are free to use the content purchased on itunes and in the itunes library. What is, or would be, illegal I imagine, is using the software without permission, and impersonating Apple hardware to their Apple software (oh wait, that sounds like the same line of reasoning OSX86 is illegal!) And what would be ok is Apple cutting off the Pre. If they want sync software, they should write their own, or be partnered with itunes. Apple isnt blocking anyone from acccess to the content or from uninstalling using itunes. Their content is available on the HD, neatly organized.

While people imagine itunes and apple is for making their life easier, or the Apple way, or whatever, it is true, if one understands the reason it makes life easier is control and integration. How can apple guarantee that every Pre app and ever Pre update is going to work with itunes? What about Pre impersonating iphone so it can use Appstore (if thats even possible)? Apple makes great software to sell hardware so they can sell an experience. Thats the business model.

Theres no point in adding Pre from a business POV; they already have that market locked up and integrated; and anyone using iTunes without an iphone is a potential iphone customer, so why support pre?

From a user POV, well itd be awesome if everything synced with iTunes, but not everything is designed to work with Apple. If Palm wants it to sync, they should get apple involved, or use isync, not some behind the scenes weird thing.

How hard is it to make a shell for isync, and add music syncing? all the info is on the mac as .mp3/AAC, .mp4, vcard, etc. All open files. With the exception of playlists, its all there to be synced. So why use another companies program? A) its easier b) it gives you name recognition c) it lets you jump onto another programs popularity. d) its too hard to break into Apples market of integrated music buying, organizing, and syncing.

Palm should write its own program that works seamlessly with Amazon and Netflix. Now that would be a REAL alternative and a real seller, even to itunes diehards.
 
Itunes is free. Apple makes their money on the songs they sell thru it right? So why would they block Pre from providing another avenue for them to make money? Doesn't seem like good business to me. What am I missing here?:eek:
 
AMEN. Thank you.

Seriously it sickens me how blind and robotic some of these fanboys are. I LOVE Apple myself but even I don't see a point in making iTunes "iPod/iPhone only". It reeks of elitism - Like they think to themselves, "Ha! You bought an MP3 player that isn't Apple? **** YOU!"

That's so immature and selfish.

It's annoying how people are still stereotyping every pro apple person as a fanboy. If you knew apple at all, you'd know everything they do is proprietary. It's all based around the mac, safari, iphone, ipod. They have no interest in supporting anyone else, and why should they? iTunes was developed for the ipod/iphone. They keep a tight leash on it because they've spent millions on R&D and development. Why should they allow other hardware vendors to use it in a way it wasn't intended to be used?

Then again, I think the store should be accessible from other software. Maybe apple should make it easier for other devices to sync with macs in general (if not through itunes, then through the finder). This is probably on their list but i doubt its that high...
 
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