Palm Releases WebOS 1.1, Restores iTunes Media Syncing

[Eddyisgreat]

The wailing of the fanboys is amusing. Apple are selling you a computer with music playing software that will only synch with their own iPods. I would feel ripped off tbh.

No, the most convenient way would be to buy an ipod, but the music is, last time I checked, stored in my home directory and readily available for me to do what I please. Yeah if I don't have an iPod i'll have to buy some other software but, my Macbook Pro didn't come with a copy of vista on it for bootcamp, can I kick and scream for that too?

The funny thing about it is that Palm knows that their phone is Lamer without itunes syncing so they are fighting tooth and nail to keep it going. Likewise, Apple knows its a selling point for their platform and will do what they need to to protect it.

Its mind blowing that I can sit here and see posts from individuals who really consider palm the good guy in this situation. How is the snitch in the corner peddling a competitors technology the good guy? Do ya'll root for terrorists too??

This is just going to make Apple go insane and use ruthless tactics to keep the pre out. I don't see why Apple doesn't just kill off any device that doesn't have a valid serial, assuming they all use some sort of checksum or the like. I don't think spoofing serial numbers would go over well in court.

JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!
Oops I mean
LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT!

 

[Colrath]

3. Cause one iPhone developer said it was crummy? Its different yes..but Palm flat out said, the Pre is not for hard core games right now. Otherwise, nothing but praise for the easy of the SDK over at some developer forums.

Because many developers, said it was crummy. It is.

Yay... a web browser?

 

[KingYaba]

Does this mean I have to keep updating iTunes?

 

[JML42691]

Palm is only seeming more and more childish now with this game. At first it wasn't all that major (just the iTunes aspect at least), but going as far as to find a workaround to bypass a block for your first workaround makes them seem like a child playing a game and not a professional smartphone company by any means. I am no genius by any means when it comes to legal terms, but I hope Apple legal finds a way to go all-out against Palm with all of this non-sense, first they start copying all the multi-touch gestures and such, and now they are trying to hack into iTunes essentially.

C'mon Palm, mature a little bit and develop your own software and techniques for a change.

 

[Maven1975]

Everyone wanting iTunes to stay exclusive their devices are really narrow minded.

Why would a company such as Apple not want the extra interest in iTunes and or the profit they receive from media purchases?

If they want to slap back at Palm, they need to put ad's out showing even though they allow other devices to sync with itunes, one needs an iPhone/iPod Touch to use all of the media and app's it offers.

Otherwise, they look threatened and more like Nazi pricks.

 

[DesignerOnMac]

Palm users can still put all the songs they want on their Pre, they simply can't use iTunes to sync them. Palm can write their own software to access all the songs on the iTunes Music library and sync them, they're just lazy...

My understanding, and I know I will be corrected if I am wrong is, downloading legal music does not give you free endless copying etc. If you own the CD you can make copies, but not endless ones.

I am sure bands are not happy about making no money with endless free sharing of their songs, like I am not happy when I see people steal from me and my creative work. I work hard for the money I make and I certainly do not like others taking my work for free.

I also agree with posters here who say that Palm could have done this with their own software...thank you very much!

 

[daneoni]

lol...awesome. I love me some good sticking-to.

 

[RunOverProducti]

As a Pre owner I just don't care. The only time I used iTunes is when I owned an iPhone. Frankly, there are way better apps out there meant for syncing media. I know 5 people who use the Pre at work alone and none of them sync with iTunes. This really isn't that big of a deal.

On another note, Apple really needs to be careful how they handle this situation. It won't take much for the DOJ to look at Apple's iTunes/iPod as being a monopoly. They are by far the most dominate force in the multi-billion dollar industry that is online music. Considering the anti-business Democratic control in DC it will not take much. Obama's new appointee to the DOJ's antitrust division is already targeting Google as a possible monopoly, and they haven't really pulled anything "evil".

MONOPOLY HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA that's funny...

Just because iTunes is popular it does not mean monopoly... You can buy music online from Amazon, Wal-mart etc...

iTunes is mainly design for the customers that owns Apple products!

Just because is popular it means Monopoly? Give me a break...

It had to come from a Palm pre user LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

If you don't care get the hell out of "MAC"FORUMS.... And go to palm forums!

 

[Colrath]

If you own the CD you can make copies, but not endless ones.

You can make as many copies as you want, as long as you're not distributing them.

 

[deconstruct60]

The only reason Palm is doing this is for attention, they are not doing this for the benefit of their users, please. .... They only want to .... and get some media sympathy, pathetic.

You mean like start selling new phones at 4:00 p.m. evening local news cycle so that they can get trucks out to take photos of folks waiting in line.

or granting inside interviews so that get the cover of a national newstand magazine with your product prominently placed on the cover to get exposure.

or create a context where App developers are tripping all over themselves so that they too can get exposure on an ad which turns into a payday for them.

or release stats that say billions of apps downloaded .. which doesn't factor out upgrades.

or build a multi thousand dollar a year rumor industry around their company with super secret surprise announcements.


Palm ... over there doing media hyping stuff .... where they get tatic from?

Pot met kettle , kettle met pot.

 

[windywoo]

No, the most convenient way would be to buy an ipod, but the music is, last time I checked, stored in my home directory and readily available for me to do what I please. Yeah if I don't have an iPod i'll have to buy some other software but, my Macbook Pro didn't come with a copy of vista on it for bootcamp, can I kick and scream for that too?

JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!
Oops I mean
LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT! LAWSUIT!

It just goes to show how much Apple have you by the balls that you don't see iTunes synching with iPods only as a weakness. Windows Media Player synchs with a huge range of devices. Winamp has plugins for a similar range. If Apple only made iPods and weren't an OS provider as well, it would be understandable. An OS should provide more functionality than working only with products made by Apple. How much trouble would Apple be in if OSX only worked with their own routers?

 

[SG1-1]

That is a rather poor description of the problem that drove the case.
At the time Netscape was trying to sell the browser software. So Microsoft bundling a copy of an application so that you had to buy it along with operating system was a case of tying.

Microsoft countered with a manure pond of handing waving that somehow IE was embedded into the OS (it wasn't a separate application and was fundamental OS property/service). It is a freaking application that runs on top of the OS.

Or you can put a framework library of a web browser ( e.g., webkit) on top of the OS. But still not part of the OS. This is also about the point where the term Operating System get marketing speak bastardized to mean the "OS + core app 'free' bundle' you get from the software vendor.


Because it was an application that they tied to the OS they squashed Netscape out of the market since there was no way to make money at it.
[Firefox and mozilla.org is largerly living on the generosity of Google donations. And Apple gets to charge a fraction of OS X sales to help support Webkit development. ] The case also threw a spotlight on Microsoft making PC vendors pay them a tax for every PC shipped and Microsoft play some games that the "dumb civil servants woudn't be able to figure out" that got exposed. The closet of schemes designed to tilt the market into always going their way fell out on the floor.




Fairplay/DRM and iTunes role was another case where could make a tying/bundling case.

The download part is as much the point as much as Apple blocking interoperability. Setting things up so that nobody else can even enter the market is anticompetitive.

If you set up barriers so that even if folks have a better solution they still can't enter that is generally considered anticompetitive.

Thanks for adding your additional thought's, But as a direct to the Poster I was answering to; it was accurate in pointing out some things that played part in the case.

Im not here to write a book.

If you would like to go back and address the Poster that previously this was an answer to, please do.

But with all due respect, My Answer was to another poster and it seems that you failed to grasp the whole context of what was not completely quoted to 2 pages ago, and was taken out of context.

But i do appreciated you Personal & articulate information in addressing this third party conversation.

But there are Choices, But people frequently see only one.

 

[Macman1993]

I love all the armchair lawyering about EULA and DMCA and anti-trust and monopolies though.... very entertaining.

HAHA same with me its so fun to read. My way of doing it is if I don't know something I won't pretend to, not knowing is better IMO than being plain wrong.

 

[rstone3]

Earlier post quoted high return rate on Pre and low sales numbers...found on CNBC / story with Cramer recommending selling Palm shares that return rate on Pre is estimated at 40% with rapidly tapering sales (numbers not specified). It looks like it really won't matter if the Pre syncs or not - the device and the company won't be around very long.

That said, in my opinion this was very stupid of Palm overall to leach off of another developer's work in this way. The whole thing just seems cheap.

Here's the article:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/32111964/site/14081545?__source=yahoo|headline|quote|text|&par=yahoo

 

[RunOverProducti]

Everyone wanting iTunes to stay exclusive their devices are really narrow minded.

Why would a company such as Apple not want the extra interest in iTunes and or the profit they receive from media purchases?

If they want to slap back at Palm, they need to put ad's out showing even though they allow other devices to sync with itunes, one needs an iPhone/iPod Touch to use all of the media and app's it offers.

Otherwise, they look threatened and more like Nazi pricks.

Yeah, so Apple makes it legal for everyone owning a mp3 to load with iTunes, by doing that they will lose money on Apple products...

iTunes is doing fine without any 3rd party devices trying to cut in the action!

Trust me, if iTunes wasn't doing good they would think about other options, like making it sync to other devices.

 

[Maven1975]

Earlier post quoted high return rate on Pre and low sales numbers...found on CNBC / story with Cramer recommending selling Palm shares that return rate on Pre is estimated at 40% with rapidly tapering sales (numbers not specified). It looks like it really won't matter if the Pre syncs or not - the device and the company won't be around very long.

That said, in my opinion this was very stupid of Palm overall to leach off of another developer's work in this way. The whole thing just seems cheap.

Here's the article:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/32111964/site/14081545?__source=yahoo|headline|quote|text|&par=yahoo

Curious why everyone is making a big deal out of this now, while it has been done with other devices for years.

If the Palm Community really want to use itunes, nobody can stop them. All the lawsuits in the world will not stop home brew and hackers alike from forcing the issue.

 

[ptsube]

Um, no but thanks for playing.

People have a choice. They could buy a Zune, a Samsung player, Blackberry, etc. All have software with which they work and 2 of the 3 work on Mac or PC. There's nothing wrong at all with Apple restricting software it created to working with devices it created, so long as if the consumer doesn't like Apple's implementation or offerings, they can purchase others, which is the case. If Apple actively pursued actions or software that prevented competitors products from functioning, then the DOJ, etc would have a case but this is just not the case here.

Internet Explorer has a 58% market share, yet the EC went after them because it is installed on every Windows PC. iTunes store has ~57% market share. Now look at how iTunes and the iPod are tied together. Similar cases.

You don't think the greedy EC would want to get in to Apple's vault?

So why not out smart them rather than just stating, I'm right, I'm right, I'm right. License compatibility to those who can afford it. Then they have a better footing to stand on if the EC comes after them. Do it now while they can still charge for it, rather than being forced to allow compatitbility.

I'm not saying I agree with Palm or Apple on this, or whether the DOJ or the EC would be in the right or the wrong. I'm saying, you need to play the cards you are dealt, if Apple keeps going like this, they will lose.

 

[mlmorg]

first they start copying all the multi-touch gestures and such

wow...just wow.

and now they are trying to hack into iTunes essentially.

C'mon Palm, mature a little bit and develop your own software and techniques for a change.

yes they are hacking into itunes because everybody uses it -- why force people to use a new product for their phone when they should just be able to sync it up with the product they use the most -- good for apple for creating such a great product -- why is everybody on this forum just dissing palm for letting users continue to use a great product? and by the same token, someone could easily say apple's developers are lazy because they only code their software to work with apple hardware...

 

[HLdan]

why does it make you guys so mad that it can sync w/ itunes? Whats wrong with sharing the joys of itunes with all platforms

You're missing the point. Palm is a big company, they have the talents to build their own hardware (even though they basically took what the iPhone already does and created the Pre) so they should use those same talents to build their own software to sync music from. It's lame and embarrassing and petty for Palm to hack into iTunes so they can use it to help sell their product. Pathetic, FAIL. Glad I didn't waste my money on a Palm Pre, I'm not gonna be stupid and support a company that has no morals.

 

[str1f3]

The wailing of the fanboys is amusing. Apple are selling you a computer with music playing software that will only synch with their own iPods. I would feel ripped off tbh.

Maybe I'm the only one who is not thinking about this from a fanboy point of view. Who knows! Either way you are missing the point. You are only looking at this from your beneficial point of view (the consumer). The developer actually has rights.

Apple built the music store solely to sell more iPods and not as a music store for everyone. Palm could easily built a third party sync app like RIM has done. Palm could have easily pushed DoubleTwist which I think in some ways is a better product than iTunes. It allows for photo management which iTunes does not have, full syncing w/ playlists, and social networking capabilities. Instead they chose to give the finger to Apple and is masking itself as an iPod. They are using all the time and development that Apple has put into iTunes for their benefit.

It is the act of children on the part of Palm to behave this way.

 

[cuestakid]

Here is my two cents-

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I believe that a few former Apple Execs and or engineers are now at Palm. They are the only people that I can think of that would know how to manipulate iTunes to think that the Pre is an iPod hardware wise. I think that alone would get Palm in trouble for sharing insider secrets-in this case secrets about how the iPod interacts with iTunes. Pam has to be careful not to anger and alienate consumers. They are the people that can lose. Palm issues an update to restore the syncing. Apple issues an update to break it. Palm issues update, Apple issues update. It will keep happening and we will all get pissed off as to why the two companies cannot sort it out. a

 

[Maven1975]

Yeah, so Apple makes it legal for everyone owning a mp3 to load with iTunes, by doing that they will lose money on Apple products...

iTunes is doing fine without any 3rd party devices trying to cut in the action!

Trust me, if iTunes wasn't doing good they would think about other options, like making it sync to other devices.

Wait a second, Apple make the best MP3 players on the market IMHO. However, Apple will loose nothing as far as revenue is concerned because those that use illegal files, will continue to do that in the future.

I do think other options should be explored as far as Palm is concerned. However, why alienate consumers and realize the huge profit potential that could be gained? I have never seen a business say" Nah, were good.. we don't want an extra few million" when it would cost them absolutely nothing to earn it.

This old school brand of BS is what keeps Apple humdrum. Blow it up! Put Palm and others on blast publicly with a proper campaign. But, don't hurt the public and consumers with this pissing match.

 

[*LTD*]

RIM innovated their own software solution, and by all accounts it's meeting with Apple's approval.

But Palm seems to think it's a game now. And it's all very clever and enterprising on their part . . . until Apple breaks Pre syncing again and again and again, via simple, innocent iTunes updates, which are really for (and have always been for) Apple devices.

Who suffers from all this? Who gets frustrated? Who will place calls to Palm tech support claiming that Palm is making false claims? Pre users. Palm's own customers will bear the brunt of Palm's games.

 

[HLdan]

Everyone wanting iTunes to stay exclusive their devices are really narrow minded.

Why would a company such as Apple not want the extra interest in iTunes and or the profit they receive from media purchases?

If they want to slap back at Palm, they need to put ad's out showing even though they allow other devices to sync with itunes, one needs an iPhone/iPod Touch to use all of the media and app's it offers.

Otherwise, they look threatened and more like Nazi pricks.

OMG, you guys keep missing the point. It's not that many of us want iTunes to remain exclusive, I could care less who syncs with iTunes as long as they license the rights through Apple which is what Palm should be doing. If Apple doesn't want to license iTunes for syncing with other company's devices then so be it, it's their right.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

It just goes to show how much Apple have you by the balls that you don't see iTunes synching with iPods only as a weakness. Windows Media Player synchs with a huge range of devices. Winamp has plugins for a similar range. If Apple only made iPods and weren't an OS provider as well, it would be understandable. An OS should provide more functionality than working only with products made by Apple. How much trouble would Apple be in if OSX only worked with their own routers?

WMP? Seriously? Have you USED WMP?

IT SUCKS. It sucks with Windows Mobile, it sucks with the Sansa and iRiver, it just sucks. It was easier to just use the Mass storage option than sync anything with that pile of trash because the interface was so clunky (well, the Windows Mobile based ones were).

Winamp...eh...I've only used it to play like 3 files in my lifetime. Otherwise it was always Media Player Classic and then VLC once I moved over.

Anyway, i've used alot of products (like i've said earlier, three windows mobile devices running 5.x and 6.x, A sansa, A zune, three iRivier devices, this crappy little korean one, and some other no name brands) and they all sucked. They all couldn't provide me with the experience I desired. Guess what? I got rid of em and moved to a platform that actually worked! I'm not going to bag these products because they aren't iPods, but I got rid of them because they d.i.d n.o.t w.o.r.k. Apple came out on the scene, I tried em, I liked em.

If other products want to duplicate the aura, they can do so with their own code. Hijacking code and playing dress up just looks stupid and should be illegal.

edit: sorry, grammar.