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Palm Releases WebOS 1.1, Restores iTunes Media Syncing
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You're missing the point. Palm is a big company, they have the talents to build their own hardware (even though they basically took what the iPhone already does and created the Pre) so they should use those same talents to build their own software to sync music from. It's lame and embarrassing and petty for Palm to hack into iTunes so they can use it to help sell their product. Pathetic, FAIL. Glad I didn't waste my money on a Palm Pre, I'm not gonna be stupid and support a company that has no morals.
I'd like to see you "basically take what the iPhone already does and create the Pre" -- they have completely different hardware and completely different software -- or have you never actually used one?
What ppl in this thread fail to understand is that this is not a selling point of the Pre...This is a simple nicety on the part of Pre developers to figure out a way to let you sync your music from itunes -- no one is buying the Pre solely because it syncs to itunes so saying that Palm is making money off apple is ridiculous -- We get it, itunes is a successful product -- Palm developers knew this and decided "hey, everybody uses itunes, why the hell should we tell them they can't use it to put music on their phone." enough said.
Windows Media Player pisses on iTunes and it works great with my phone and my mum's creative zen.
Didn't Real try something like this years before?
I guess it just falls to Palm to release an iTunes equivalent app - the lazy buggers. From an outsiders view (I don't use Palm) it just seems to me that these people are just piggybacking on Apples software. Software they likely spent a lot of money on.
Wait what was that about WMP? It's terrible. Even on XP I prefer to use iTunes for its organisation features. Or was the positive WMP comment in sarcasm? heh.
I guess it just falls to Palm to release an iTunes equivalent app - the lazy buggers. From an outsiders view (I don't use Palm) it just seems to me that these people are just piggybacking on Apples software. Software they likely spent a lot of money on.
Wait what was that about WMP? It's terrible. Even on XP I prefer to use iTunes for its organisation features. Or was the positive WMP comment in sarcasm? heh.
How about all other devices that sync with itunes? If Apple want licensing. do you think they should profit share as PALM is brining Apple users and revenue to begin with?
The source of those return 'stats' is about as scientific as polling Macrumors about what company makes the best operating system.
Wired.com
Lethal
Anybody could have done this. The Only difference is that if you or I did it we would have got a cease & desist letter from Apple. If we did it twice we would have been taken to court. Right now this is gamesmanship between Apple and Palm. If this gets more heated, it could result in a lawsuit. The problem for Palm is that if you take this situation into account including all the engineers that Palm hired away from Apple, multitouch, the lawyer from Apple who got fired who is now working for Elevations partners, it does not paint a pretty picture.
Apple could sue Palm into bankruptcy right now from court fees alone. The only reason they probably haven't done so is because it would take years and there would be a ton of negative press.
It is pro game.
It is just like some of the smack talking that happens in pro football, basketball games. If you talk smack and that takes the other player off his game and you score... that is part of the game.
If the work arounds cost palm $500 to do and are legal. And they cost Apple $3000 to do and they can't really stop them. If that $3,000 of Apple isn't spent on a feature that really would be hard for Palm to compete against then Palm made progress.
Frankly there is also the fanatical Apple fan boy blow back here also. If it is a no harm, no foul interoperability feature then the Apple-can-do-no-wrong folks are arguing all over all the boards about how Apple is so justified in denying end user functionality.
It is a small hack.
If no one is calling Apple support about Pre synching then it is almost as anal retentive on Apples part as it is on Palm.
If it costs Palm more money that it does Apple then it is a small but too expensive hack. In that case it is dumb for Palm.
Finally it also points out that the sync process really isn't all that proprietary. There is probably a very simple protocol that would allow iTunes (or any other music library software) to sync with any other device on the other end of a usb connection.
An analogy would be like you needed the Microsoft IIS server to talk to IE but wouldn't talk to Firefox or Sarfari. Seriously what is so complicated here. It is a list of files and if not there copy. Before there was DRM stuff to worry about. ( didn't make sense to copy files that wouldn't run a non apple MP3 player. ) If the files run anywhere now .... what is the point of being anal retentive about which device transfer the file to?
itunes: USB device 123 do you speak standard sync protocol 1.2.3?
standard MP3 player device 123 : Yes.
itunes: What is your list of music and playlist name?
MP3 player: playlist foo with blah blah blah. ....
itunes : OK here are new enteries.
ituens: blah ...
MPS 3 player: got it
itunes : blah ...
MP3 player : got it.
....
itunes: all done.
MPS 3 player: Gee thanks. Have a nice day.
itunes: You too
Why should 10 MP3 player companies write that same rountine 10 times. Most of these players could mount as a disk image so this really amounts to copies files from one directory to another. You know like what you ask the finder to do.
What exists now is like everyone writing their own file handling routines. That's goofy.
If it was complicated. If there was security/authentication. Or even special file formats.
It isn't for DRM free, industry standard formatted/encoded files. It is writing highly duplicated programs over and over again.... that's progress??????????
Because the profit potential is fairly small in retrospect to the sales of iPod and iPhone. Just check out the 10-Q statement in Apple's Investor website. The "Other music related products and services" category consisted of only 23% of iPod, iPhone and iTunes Sales. While this may seem significant the sales for the category has actually jumped 17-20% year over year because of the expanding use of iTunes in things other than music. Considering that even if other devices were allowed to be synced with iTunes, they cannot take advantage of the number of different media iTunes currently sales. iTunes sales of Applications will remain the same, as would Movie Rentals (which I assume that movie rentals cannot sync with Palm even via Hack).
But I figure Apple know this better than us, and therefore would make their policy reflect potential profit endeavors. So please don't talk about a companies potential profit, there are smart individuals working in these companies who have a better understanding than any of us.
Consider this:
The Pre isn't selling as well as Palm hoped. Not only is not the "iPhone Killer" it was dubbed to be (by Palm, no less), and not only did Roger McNamee of Elevation Partners eat his own words, but it's also experiencing its fair share of returns.
Obviously, direct iTunes syncing would automatically give a device far more desirability - possibly shoring up some of what ails the Pre. That would be quite a selling point: iTunes panache. Easy and direct access to what Apple created.
Masquerading as an iPhone, however, smacks of desperation. It's a hack. It gives Pre users something they are not entitled to with the Pre. But Palm thinks it can get away with something here, instead of simply innovating their own desktop software and selling the Pre on its own merits.
The sad part is, customers will be left in the cold and wonder about Palm's false claims when the next iTunes update quite justifiably breaks Pre syncing.
The Pre isn't selling as well as Palm hoped. Not only is not the "iPhone Killer" it was dubbed to be (by Palm, no less), and not only did Roger McNamee of Elevation Partners eat his own words, but it's also experiencing its fair share of returns.
Obviously, direct iTunes syncing would automatically give a device far more desirability - possibly shoring up some of what ails the Pre. That would be quite a selling point: iTunes panache. Easy and direct access to what Apple created.
Masquerading as an iPhone, however, smacks of desperation. It's a hack. It gives Pre users something they are not entitled to with the Pre. But Palm thinks it can get away with something here, instead of simply innovating their own desktop software and selling the Pre on its own merits.
The sad part is, customers will be left in the cold and wonder about Palm's false claims when the next iTunes update quite justifiably breaks Pre syncing.
Reminds me of the same sort of cat and mouse game that goes on between Apple and the iPhone unlocking community.
Ten years from now, people will look back and think how silly it all was.
Maybe. Maybe not.
iTunes isn't used by everyone. The people I know who bought a Pre, are not buying it to be used mostly as an iPod, if at all.
Ten years from now, people will look back and think how silly it all was.
Maybe. Maybe not.
iTunes isn't used by everyone. The people I know who bought a Pre, are not buying it to be used mostly as an iPod, if at all.
itunes is supposed to be a media player application. as a media player application, it should actually be compatible with every device out there. honestly, media players are there for convenience, not a platform to create exclusivity
Pre users are not entitled to the DRM free MP3 and video that is present in iTunes repository that they paid for? Really?
The fact is the for the DRM stuff the Pre users are entitled to the content that is being sync.
The bitching and moaning is about the transfer process. Generically they are also entitled to that. To transfer to player for their own use.
Yeah it is a cute hack for the synch mechanism but that has jack to do with entitlements.
Apple has some motivation to block if they think some kind of additional expense is going to blow back on them.
Or somewhat lots of content that shouldn't be transfered (is still DRM bound) is going to be copyied over. So the hack is likely to cause more problems than work.
But users aren't entitled to the content? come on.
How exactly is Apple being "childish"? The only one that seems to thnk this is some sort of game, and leading their customers on with false claims is Palm.
Palm has been at this for a long time (mobile devices, that is), so I am sure they have a huge portfolio of patents.
Apple has publicly claimed they have over 200 patents on the iPhone.
This is just the Cold War now.
I'd imagine if they both keep nipping at each other, we'll end up with mutually assured destruction.
Apple has publicly claimed they have over 200 patents on the iPhone.
This is just the Cold War now.
I'd imagine if they both keep nipping at each other, we'll end up with mutually assured destruction.
iTunes No More For Me
I've had too many problems with iTunes with keeping my iPod in sync. iTunes has erased my 160GB iPod a couple of times. Being USB rather than FW that means a long rebuilding process. I always seem to lose some music. That shouldn't be as all of my music has come from CDs or from digitized vinyl that I own.
What programs would best handle 2-300GB of music that I currently have recorded using Apple Lossless format? Apple willl never again make an iPod large enough to hold all of my music. Currently the music is stored on an Apple NAS drive.
I think that both sides are doing this all wrong. Palm should use one or another of the programs that people say do a better job of syncing. Apple is trying to show that they can act the same as MS when they have the power. There own choice to run this government will have a hay day with them in court. Apple's lawyers may be more experienced in court than government lawyers, but remember that Apple gets to pay for part of the opposition's costs through their taxes.
I don't own a Pre at present time, but since I have Verizon cell phone service & do not have any plans to change, if I want a smart phone it appears that Palm will be on Verizon long before Apple will be with their iPhone. If that means there is a Palm Pre in my future I will not say as I don't want my internet service & my cell phone on the same hardware device. But it appears that I may loose that decussion.
Down with iTunes.
I've had too many problems with iTunes with keeping my iPod in sync. iTunes has erased my 160GB iPod a couple of times. Being USB rather than FW that means a long rebuilding process. I always seem to lose some music. That shouldn't be as all of my music has come from CDs or from digitized vinyl that I own.
What programs would best handle 2-300GB of music that I currently have recorded using Apple Lossless format? Apple willl never again make an iPod large enough to hold all of my music. Currently the music is stored on an Apple NAS drive.
I think that both sides are doing this all wrong. Palm should use one or another of the programs that people say do a better job of syncing. Apple is trying to show that they can act the same as MS when they have the power. There own choice to run this government will have a hay day with them in court. Apple's lawyers may be more experienced in court than government lawyers, but remember that Apple gets to pay for part of the opposition's costs through their taxes.
I don't own a Pre at present time, but since I have Verizon cell phone service & do not have any plans to change, if I want a smart phone it appears that Palm will be on Verizon long before Apple will be with their iPhone. If that means there is a Palm Pre in my future I will not say as I don't want my internet service & my cell phone on the same hardware device. But it appears that I may loose that decussion.
Down with iTunes.
Ahem.
"A business is a legally recognized organization designed to provide goods and/or services to consumers.[1] Businesses are predominant in capitalist economies, most being privately owned and formed to earn profit that will increase the wealth of its owners and grow the business itself."
Grow up.
And who are you thinking of?
Actually no, media players are just meant to play your media.
If you had said Winamp I could have taken you seriously.
Actually up until recently part of iTunes role as as control gatekeeper over convenience. It had major function to stop people from moving their media around or limit their access to it.
Apple's take on the matter appears to be that era isn't over. (in so far as it puts more money in their pocket it is a "hurray for us" for them. )
The open question that the hack puts a spotlight role on is whether that gatekeeper role a primary function that iTunes is going to carry into the future.
They're entitled to iTunes content. Syncing directly to a non-Apple device, however, is an entirely different story. The existence of iTunes on someone's computer in no way assumes or implies that there is a separate media playing device that has to be supported.
Pre users are more than welcome to load their music on to the Pre some other way. That isn't Apple's problem.
I'm definitly in the 'go Palm' boat. I use iTunes on my Mac to manage my music, and would like the simplicity of continueing to use it when I get a Pre. That being said, I'm not forced to use iTunes due 99% of my music being in MP3 format. The iTunes store is highly overrated with their DRM crippled music, and higher priced music for non-DRM.
I think Amazon & Pre need to team up.
I think Amazon & Pre need to team up.