macOS MohalveI just think they could have maintained a seperate version for the older machines that didn't require Metal
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Pathetic support
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That's a good point I hadn't thought of. By dropping OS support for older Macs Apple is also making it easier for its app developers to avoid the hassle of having to work around limitations on older hardware as well.
But make no mistake, Apple does this primarily for their own bottom line. They have little to no incentive to keep supporting old hardware, and they have a loyal customer base who, after 7 years is generally itching for something newer anyway.
Edit: For the whiners, this page has been up on Apple's site for quite some time and is really quite clear what their policies are in this regard. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624
You can complain about it but if you've done your research before buying a Mac you shouldn't be surprised about it.
Until you start loading it up with files and apps. Then...I hope you like waiting and pressing that 'restart' button.
I don't know if you can say something like that. The main point is that many Windows Computer also break way faster then mac and no one cares about an old 200$ Laptop. which was designed to hold up for the next 2 years and be replaced afterwards.
Apple is keeping old Iphones alive pretty long compared to android where you could think apple would also profit from users buying more phones. Considering high Sierra supported old 2009 devices you cant say they just want money.
Apple has done this simply to stop the negative press caused by newer iOS versions slowing down older devices, not because Apple actually cares about said devices. There have even been lawsuits brought on by this, which is usually what it takes to get Apple to respond.
It wouldn't even require a separate version. Just leave the OpenGL code in instead of stripping it, and disable the iOS-ported apps that require Metal.I just think they could have maintained a seperate version for the older machines that didn't require Metal
Understood. That's why I'm hoping it's a trend that continues.
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That was a widespread 1990's Windows (and Apple) problem. I haven't formatted my Windows 10 rig since I installed it. It's loaded with stuff and operates very smoothly, SSD's are a beautiful thing.
So this does mean when apple does something crappy then it is because they want your cash.
But if they do something nice, they actually also only want your cash?
What could apple do where you would say they tried to be nice?
Not really in my experience. I support numerous Windows 10 machines in an enterprise environment and have used it extensively with my own machines and haven't run into that problem.
Yet my 2008 $300 compaq remains more useful than my 2008 $1800 MacBook...
Welcome to capitalism! They don't do anything to be nice. There's always an ulterior motive (even if it's just good PR).
No that is their policy on long term hardware support. Not software support - they are different.
Developers are more than free to set requirements for their software - they are not forced to work around limitations.
Of course this is nothing new, but it doesn't make it any less annoying.
Your 2008 $1800 MacBook has better hardware and build quality than your 2008 Compaq. Part of that $1800 you paid was for that quality.
And you can easily install Windows 10 on that 2008 MacBook and continue to use it. For Macs, the deal is you get OS support for 7 years (perhaps a year longer in rare cases). This should not be a surprise to anyone.
Now only thing that is needed is for me to believe you.
In fact, I would, if I didn't use Windows desktops as much as I did Macs.
There are exceptions for everything that is sure, but generally, Windows has that know issue. More you use your machine, the worse it gets. Those who do very light work on their Windows machines maybe have it running smoothly for longer periods.
Not sure about laptops...can't speak about those.
Of course developers are free to set their own requirements (and then deal with the blame from users when their computer becomes incompatible). If Apple takes care of that for them, then Apple gets the blame. Surely you can see how devs would prefer that.
Find me a Mac older than 8 years that Apple officially supported on a major new OS update. It's their longstanding policy that once systems go Vintage/Obsolete that Apple stops all support for them, hardware and software.
Yes, it's nothing new. Annoying but not surprising, etc. Rant away if it makes you feel better, but if you keep buying Macs you're basically telling Apple to keep doing what they're doing.
Lol, the Mac had to have its bezel replaced, keyboard and trackpad replaced because of cracking which was widespread for that model. Not to mention the cracking elsewhere over the body that Apple never would replace. It's been through like 4 MagSafe adaptors. The optical drive was replaced once as well. The Compaq on the other hand has no cracking and the only repair was a singular adaptor replacement.
There is no 'deal' about Macs and long term support. Its always been all over the place. The last of the PPC Macs barely scraped 3 years of support. Same with various machines dropped in 10.6 and then in 10.7 and 10.8.
I think its a rubbish way of looking at it. There shouldn't be arbitrary limits on software support when we live in a world of depleting resources and environmental damage.
No it is not their policy. The 2009 iMac went obsolete in late 2015 and software support continues till 10.14 replaces 10.13.6, which will happen in late 2018. Other examples are when software support has been lost before the computer itself was obsolete on the hardware side.
The 2007 era iMacs and MacBook Pros that received El Capitan had main MacOS support till Late 2016 - I classify that as over 8 years...
The point is there is no written policy from Apple about how many years of software support Macs get.
"Find me a Mac older than 8 years"
And the 2009/2010 Mac Pros are unique in that they're physically identical to the 2012 Mac Pro which Apple continued to sell through 2013. The 2008 was dropped as of Sierra which came out in 2016.
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Edit: The 2007 iMac and MBPs had support on the 2015 OS release, not the 2016 release. It's disingenuous for you to try to claim that as longer than 8 years. Give me a break.
Experience tells you it's rarely longer than 7 years and never longer than 8. Once a model lands on Vintage/Obsolete it's on borrowed time. This is nothing new.
10.11.6 was late 2016, I claim that as 9 years. Until Sierra came out, 10.11.15 (or 16) was the newest available and it was released in 2016.
And you claimed that "It's their longstanding policy that once systems go Vintage/Obsolete that Apple stops all support for them, hardware and software.", which is not true.
Come on. Apple never drops hardware support with OS point releases. We are talking about major OS revisions. 10.11.0, 10.12.0, 10.13.0, etc. Once Apple determines their compatibility list for a given major revision of OS X that list doesn't change, no matter how many point releases come out over how many years. If for some reason Apple put out a 10.7.6 tomorrow I would fully expect my 2007 Mac Mini to run it, but I wouldn't expect it to run 10.8.6 because it never ran 10.8.0. Please stop being pedantic.
I maintain you knew what I meant, but fine, I will re-phrase it as "It's their longstanding policy that once systems go Vintage/Obsolete that Apple no longer guarantees software support. Their commitment is that they support it with major OS releases until it goes Vintage/Obsolete. Anything beyond that is gravy.
7-8 years is a good rule of thumb Apple almost always sticks to.
I appreciate feedback and comments here. Serious question: if I were to continue to use this late 2011 MacBook to do general coding outside of XCode, do you think this machine can last me another few years barring any hardware failure? Aside from me being upset about not having the dark mode on Mojave, I do appreciate the build quality on this Mac vs any PC from the 2011 era. Guess Macs are better quality.
A modern Windows desktop w/ SSD does not have the issues you discuss. People can mess up any computer, including a Mac. My sister's iMac was slow beyond belief, constant spinning beach ball. I upgraded her to an SSD and she no longer has any issues.
The same can be said about Windows. Once you put an SSD on there, rot is a thing of the past. Has nothing to do with workload. I have my Windows boot disk full of apps and games with plenty of stuff on my 2TB storage drive. I don't have any performance issues and rarely need to reboot. My computer is from 2011, it's not new.
At this point, there's nothing you can say that will change my opinion on this, as I deal with lots of computers running both Windows and OSX. I don't experience the symptoms you mentioned unless the system is under-powered (cheapo Windows laptops), I think it's safe to say it's time we move along.
Wait, aren't we drifting away here? Original claim that has been made was that Mac needs more RAM to run smoothly, while Windows 10 will work flawlessly, even on really underpowered machines, with few gigs of RAM.
Of course that any OS will run smoothly on nice machine. Who has ever questioned that?
You said fill it up with stuff and wait for reboot. That issue was present in the early 2000’s / 1990’s and that’s what I responded to.
Wipe the thought from your mind. Unless it eventually suffers some kind of graphic issue, which the 2011 MacBook Pros have been known to do, it'll serve you fine. At least it isn't as unstable as the 2006 - 2008 MacBook Pro time bombs.
Just use the dark mode in El Capitan.
I'd say Macs up until 2014 / 2016 are better quality, hardware wise. Be thankful you aren't on a touchbar MacBook Pro. If you're going to be doing some coding, you'd need a different keyboard because the keys on that thing are PATHETIC. Hardly any travel whatsoever and the repairability/robustness rating is 0/10.
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In my experience if the Apple computer survive the first 6 months it will survive until it is thrown in the wall or jumped upon, except if there are some certain circumstances (like the Nvidia chip issue). At least as long as you keep it clean and well cared, and of course the battery will likely die before the rest of the computer. Apple do emphasize build quality, much so than most other big PC manufacturers, but it is still a mass produced item.