Pathetic support

[bunnspecial]

Apple is going all in on Metal systemwide, those GPUs are too weak to support Metal

As a small point, it's not so much a function of GPU power as it is the ability to understand the needed instructions for Metal.

Back in the 10.4 days, Apple started using Core Image although it wasn't a requirement(it sort of became a requirement in 10.6, but that's a moot point as all Intel Macs had a Core Image capable GPU). Some specific applications-like Aperture-did require Core Image.

All PowerMac G5s shipped with a Core Image capable GPU, but the Geforce 5200 shipped in a lot of the earlier ones was overall a pretty crummy GPU. Most lower end Intel Macs shipped with an Intel GMA950 GPU-an absolutely terrible GPU that none the less supports Core Image. A card like a Geforce 4Ti will kick the pants off a GMA950 in raw performance, but by the time OS X Leopard came around the speed improvements even from a low end CI-capable GPU were noticeable.

It's the same thing with SSE4 in Sierra-there are plenty of CPUs that beat a low-end compatible CPU in raw performance, but none the less just don't support the necessary instructions. Going back to my PowerPC experience, it's like running the retail release of OS X Leopard on a G3-it's just not going to happen despite the fact that I have G3s that are faster in terms of raw performance than G4s.

 

[z970]

Going back to my PowerPC experience, it's like running the retail release of OS X on a G3-it's just not going to happen despite the fact that I have G3s that are faster in terms of raw performance than G4s.

I thought a G3 could pull (at least) Panther's weight fine?

 

[bunnspecial]

I thought a G3 could pull (at least) Panther's weight fine?

I left out an important word-Leopard.

Unless you're running DP1, you're not running Leo on a G3.

In my experience, Tiger runs a lot better than Panther on G3s.

 

[old mac]

Going back to my PowerPC experience, it's like running the retail release of OS X on a G3-it's just not going to happen despite the fact that I have G3s that are faster in terms of raw performance than G4s.

I believe all that was needed was a firmware update to run OSX on a G3.

 

[bunnspecial]

I believe all that was needed was a firmware update to run OSX on a G3.

As I said, I made a mistake in leaving out the word "Leopard" in that post.

1. [bold]All[/bold] G3 Macs with the exception of the original PowerBook G3("Kanga") officially support OS X 10.2.8(Jaguar)

2. G3 Macs with USB ports built in officially support 10.3(Panther)

3. G3 Macs with FireWire built in officially support 10.4(Tiger)

4. All G3 Macs can run up to OS X Tiger with the help of Xpostfacto

5. G3 Macs DO NOT in any way shape or form support support OS X Leopard-with the exception of Developer Preview 1-and there is no way around this.

6. With a G4 upgrade, MOST G3 Macs will run OS X Leopard. Some computers(notably the "Pismo" Powerbook) can do it without any real hacking-you just have to bypass the installer checks. Some require some more work, and I'm not convinced that it's possible on a G4-upgrade "Lombard."

 

[jameslmoser]

Again, I'm a newbie. I'm just barely getting into learning about variables etc. I'm nowhere near employable either full time or part time. I'm in process of taking a course online. A newbie mechanic starting out learning about cars doesn't buy a 2018 Ferrari to learn the beginnings of car mechanics. They buy an older model to start with and work their way up. I can work my way up with Mac but now I don't know if next year they're gonna cut off the next model of Mac I plan on buying. It's practically a guessing game. And a very expensive one at that

If I was just learning how to become a developer, I honestly wouldn't be paying apple $99 a year for their program. I'm not new and I still won't pay them for the developer program, but thats just because I don't create Mac Apps. Your learning to become a develop, but are you learning to develop specifically for the Mac or iOS? If your willing and able to leave it for Windows or Linux so quickly maybe not. If your not looking to develop for the Mac and with Swift specifically, you might be better off using jetbrain's IDEs.

https://www.jetbrains.com/

Even if you are developing specifically for the Mac or iOS, they have AppCode. There is also now Visual Studio for Mac (which used to be MonoDevelop that MS bought and rebranded) which seems really cool, but I've only briefly played around with it.

You don't need the latest version of macOS or Xcode to develop applications, especially if you are just starting out. Your applications you create should target the oldest operating systems you want/can support anyways otherwise you will be doing the same thing you're upset with Apple for.
[doublepost=1528336891][/doublepost]

I appreciate feedback and comments here. Serious question: if I were to continue to use this late 2011 MacBook to do general coding outside of XCode, do you think this machine can last me another few years barring any hardware failure? Aside from me being upset about not having the dark mode on Mojave, I do appreciate the build quality on this Mac vs any PC from the 2011 era. Guess Macs are better quality.

I don't frequently use my MacBook, but I do use if when I travel. Its a 2012 Retina Macbook, and it would last me for years yet so without seeing the actual condition your machine is in, I would say yeah.

Don't get me wrong, I would have replaced it by now if I didn't hate the keyboard and lack of ports on the new ones... =)

 

[z970]

If I was just learning how to become a developer, I honestly wouldn't be paying apple $99 a year for their program. I'm not new and I still won't pay them for the developer program, but thats just because I don't create Mac Apps. Your learning to become a develop, but are you learning to develop specifically for the Mac or iOS? If your willing and able to leave it for Windows or Linux so quickly maybe not. If your not looking to develop for the Mac and with Swift specifically, you might be better off using jetbrain's IDEs.

https://www.jetbrains.com/

Even if you are developing specifically for the Mac or iOS, they have AppCode. There is also now Visual Studio for Mac (which used to be MonoDevelop that MS bought and rebranded) which seems really cool, but I've only briefly played around with it.

You don't need the latest version of macOS or Xcode to develop applications, especially if you are just starting out. Your applications you create should target the oldest operating systems you want/can support anyways otherwise you will be doing the same thing you're upset with Apple for.
[doublepost=1528336891][/doublepost]

I don't frequently use my MacBook, but I do use if when I travel. Its a 2012 Retina Macbook, and it would last me for years yet so without seeing the actual condition your machine is in, I would say yeah.

Don't get me wrong, I would have replaced it by now if I didn't hate the keyboard and lack of ports on the new ones... =)

I think he got the message.

Circa 50 posts ago.

 

[anazhd]

I'm glad I didn't sign up and pay $99 to be a developer now that my Mac won't be supported for Mojave. Based on this I wouldn't buy another Mac again. Period.
How can you have 7 year old laptops dropped? It literally makes no sense that I can run high sierra and now I can't run Mojave. I was going to fully invest in the Apple ecosystem based on how I was enjoying my MacBook and I assumed that it would be supported for at least another few years seeing that it's fully capable spec wise. Now I wouldn't touch another Apple product. I came from a PC, chose a Mac and now I'll be headed back to Windows and Linux where devices are supported. I'm afraid to get an iPhone SE. would it be dropped after ios 12? Wouldn't doubt it

Thereafter

I'm glad I didn't sign up and pay $99 to be a developer now that my Mac won't be supported for Mojaveve (10.15). Based on this I wouldn't buy another Mac again. Period.
How can you have 8 year old laptops dropped? It literally makes no sense that I can run Mojave and now I can't run Mojaveve. I was going to fully invest in the Apple ecosystem based on how I was enjoying my MacBook and I assumed that it would be supported for at least another few years seeing that it's fully capable spec wise. Now I wouldn't touch another Apple product. I came from a PC, chose a Mac and now I'll be headed back to Windows and Linux where devices are supported. I'm afraid to get an iPhone 6. would it be dropped after ios 13? Wouldn't doubt it

 

[z970]

Thereafter

"I'm afraid to get an iPhone SE." ---> "I'm afraid to get an iPhone 6."

Actually, specs-wise, the SE is on a higher level than the 6. The hardware is much closer to a 6S, so it's very likely it'll be supported longer than the 6.

It should be: "I'm afraid to get an iPhone 7."

 

[techguy15]

Thereafter

Thereafter

 

[z970]

Thereafter

What was the point of that post?

 

[Guy Clark]

That's a little comforting. My background story is I invested time and money (online course) into being a developer. I'm a complete newbie having only purchased my Mac a few weeks ago. So I have a right to be a little upset. I came from a Windows machine. A Dell Latitude. It ran Windows 10 fine but it had multiple issues. I saw an opportunity to get into iOS development and obviously needed a Mac. I don't have $1500 available so I went with what I could afford which is a 2011 MBP. It's got 16gb ram and 1tb HDD. I figured it was a solid machine and would last at least a year or two for my needs. Now the fact I have to get a newer machine in a year does make me a little upset, not necessarily a complainer

There are many others like yourself but it has been coming since El Capitan and I was surprised it didn't happen with High Sierra. Take it on the chin and quit the ranting.

 

[techguy15]

There are many others like yourself but it has been coming since El Capitan and I was surprised it didn't happen with High Sierra. Take it on the chin and quit the ranting.

Yes sir I will no longer rant on here. I'm glad you told me. Coming from you specifically I will listen and stop at once. Sir yes sir
[doublepost=1528414607][/doublepost]

What was the point of that post?

That "therefore" post made no sense to me lol so I just repeated it. Same thing with the guy who said hahahaha. I just said hahaha back to him.

 

[Guy Clark]

Yes sir I will no longer rant on here. I'm glad you told me. Coming from you specifically I will listen and stop at once. Sir yes sir

The point I am attempting to get across is this is not the most earthmoving change within the Mac world.In fact it is minuscule in comparison to when Apple dropped PPC architecture in favour of Intel.
We can rightfully complain however when Apple drop Intel for ARM. That is when the **** will hit the fan.

 

[dogslobber]

I think its a rubbish way of looking at it. There shouldn't be arbitrary limits on software support when we live in a world of depleting resources and environmental damage.

I think most people get Apple applying a policy like they do but there is generally a means to workRound the arbitrary limitation. Mojave requires metal supporting hardware to work so likely won’t work on my 2011 iMac. I bought this machine 5 years ago so am disappointed. Disappointed enough to say no more iMacs.
[doublepost=1528551243][/doublepost]

I appreciate feedback and comments here. Serious question: if I were to continue to use this late 2011 MacBook to do general coding outside of XCode, do you think this machine can last me another few years barring any hardware failure? Aside from me being upset about not having the dark mode on Mojave, I do appreciate the build quality on this Mac vs any PC from the 2011 era. Guess Macs are better quality.

You can probably install Mojave via an emulator such as Parallels in HS to allow you to do Xcode 11 development.
[doublepost=1528551578][/doublepost]

Apple has done this simply to stop the negative press caused by newer iOS versions slowing down older devices, not because Apple actually cares about said devices. There have even been lawsuits brought on by this, which is usually what it takes to get Apple to respond.

The iPhone is different as you can’t rollback an iOS upgrade mistake after the fact. With Macs you can install whatever OS build you like, except Mojave.

 

[Guy Clark]

This is no different to when macOS Sierra was released and some Macs released in 2007/2008 missed out. There has to be a cut off point for support.

 

[oldmacs]

This is no different to when macOS Sierra was released and some Macs released in 2007/2008 missed out. There has to be a cut off point for support.

That cut off was even worse in some ways because there was no reason for it and it can be easily made to run.

There does not need to be a cut off for support while the hardware is still capable, for machines that were very very expensive. Apple claims to be environmentally friendly, extending the useful lives of their products would be a great way of prooving this.

 

[matreya]

for machines that were very very expensive

This is the crux of your whinge though, that you can't afford to buy a new Mac....

Perhaps Apple should continue to support PPC Macs?

 

[jarman92]

It seems to happen every time Apple drops support for older computers. 7 years is a pretty reasonable amount of time to support hardware, and I doubt that it would have run very well if Apple had decided to put in the effort to make it keep working on older hardware.

Or dropping features/performance to cater to the lowest common denominator. Seriously, OP is either crazy or trolling.

SEVEN YEARS of free OS updates and support is apparently unacceptable now...

 

[old mac]

Perhaps Apple should continue to support PPC Macs?

Apple did with Tiger and Leopard. Two OSs that would run on PPC and Intel.

 

[jarman92]

That cut off was even worse in some ways because there was no reason for it and it can be easily made to run.

There does not need to be a cut off for support while the hardware is still capable, for machines that were very very expensive. Apple claims to be environmentally friendly, extending the useful lives of their products would be a great way of prooving this.

So should Apple support years-old machines that have the bare-minimum requirements even if the OS slows them to a crawl? Or should they compromise the performance of the OS on new machines and/or drop features to cater to the lowest common denominator?

 

[techguy15]

Or dropping features/performance to cater to the lowest common denominator. Seriously, OP is either crazy or trolling.

SEVEN YEARS of free OS updates and support is apparently unacceptable now...

I am crazy but I am certainly no troll. I don't live under a bridge ok? There are no outlets to plug in my Mac down under a bridge. Believe me I tried.

So should Apple support years-old machines that have the bare-minimum requirements even if the OS slows them to a crawl? Or should they compromise the performance of the OS on new machines and/or drop features to cater to the lowest common denominator?

Some of us are maxed out on RAM and have SSD so OS updates don't slow all computers to a crawl. I believe my Mac would run Mojave just fine. I've sort of accepted that I might not be able to run it officially but by the looks of the unsupported thread on here it seems I may have reason to hope.
[doublepost=1528568375][/doublepost]

This is no different to when macOS Sierra was released and some Macs released in 2007/2008 missed out. There has to be a cut off point for support.

In my opinion a machine should be supported for ten years. Call it unreasonable but that's my view. Macs are high end very expensive computers. Granted I didn't buy mine new nor did I spend a ton of money on it but in the future if I drop $1-2k on a new Mac I better damn well get years and years of OS support. No reason for there not to be support.

 

[matreya]

Apple did with Tiger and Leopard. Two OSs that would run on PPC and Intel.

You chose not to answer my question - so I'll rephrase it. Do you think Mojave should run on PPC Macs?

 

[Cisto1983]

I really don’t understand why people complain so much about apple’s choice of supporting only metal-capable macs in mojave. This time at least there is a real reason for this, unlike what happened with the requirements for sierra and high sierra (which were, at least, arbitrated). I still have an early-2009 imac which is currently running high sierra, although apple decided it couldn’t do anything better than el capitan (again, without a reasonable technical justification). it's not that I'll have to throw it in the junk tomorrow because of mojave, it will just keep running high sierra and that's it...

 

[Guy Clark]

You chose not to answer my question - so I'll rephrase it. Do you think Mojave should run on PPC Macs?

It is unfortunate Snow Leopard never made it to Macs with PPC architecture but Mojave on PPC would be impossible given the system requirements of modern day macOS.