Pathetic support

[matreya]

yup agreed pathetic support

8 years support is pretty damn good, actually. I got 6 years out of an expensive mac pro 1,1, and I thought that was good going. Of course it still works today, just stuck using 10.7.5 or hacking it for something later, if the mate I gave it to so desires.

 

[Appleak]

8 years support is pretty damn good, actually. I got 6 years out of an expensive mac pro 1,1, and I thought that was good going. Of course it still works today, just stuck using 10.7.5 or hacking it for something later, if the mate I gave it to so desires.

They can let us both enjoying macOS 10.14 with legacy OpenGL old macs besides new macs enjoy metal, I think. Anyway we hope at least macOS HS supported macs get started macOS Mojave even it will be laggy worth it for those much awaited features like dark mode and smart Finder features...

 

[_Refurbished_]

The amount of software that has been written for Intel Macs is one hundred fold compared to the days of PPC. None will be compatible with ARM based architecture. Parallels Desktop, VMware Fusion, Final Cut Pro...all Apps written for Intel based Macs will be OUT

Not to mention BOOTCAMP!

This.

I love being able to run Bootcamp and have a fully fledged Windows PC at my disposal. While Windows 10 has ARM support, you need to run legacy apps through emulation. It would also kill gaming on Windows.

I could see Apple using custom chips in a newly designed MacBook Air or something built for portability / battery life. As for the rest of the Mac lineup, it doesn't make sense. I don't think we'll see Intel being replaced on MacBook Pro's / iMacs / or Mac Pros anytime soon. Intel's chips are FAST and compete well against anyone. Apple would need to do something utterly insane in order to dethrone Intel for their higher-end equipment.

This reminds me of the "iOS / macOS" merger. While we may see portions of the rumors becoming a reality, it's unlikely that Apple will completely switch over.

 

[Guy Clark]

No, it was a separate download for 10.6, but it was included in the Intel versions of 10.4 and 10.5

My mistake.

 

[Tubamajuba]

People don't seem to realize that supporting OpenGL (and any API, really) takes time and effort away from supporting, maintaining, and improving other parts of the OS. Even if Apple went with the cross-platform Vulkan API, the same issue would have been forced as no GPUs before 2012 support Vulkan. If you want to continue using older Macs, put Windows or Linux on them. It's true today and it will be true ten years from now.

 

[IndigoQuack]

This reminds me of the "iOS / macOS" merger. While we may see portions of the rumors becoming a reality, it's unlikely that Apple will completely switch over.

Agreed. To an extent, ARM based Macs are already here; A friend of mine recently bought an iPad Pro and keyboard to replace her aged MacBook Pro, and it's a solution that works perfectly for her needs. That wouldn't be a feasible setup for everyone, but I could see the current MacBook evolving into that space ('iPad Plus', perhaps?)

I fail to see any benefit in Apple moving the rest of the Mac lineup to ARM architecture, and quite a lot of disadvantages that have already been mentioned.

Nothing is forever, but I'm confident that we'll still have Macs running on Intel chips for years to come.

 

[techguy15]

8 years support is pretty damn good, actually. I got 6 years out of an expensive mac pro 1,1, and I thought that was good going. Of course it still works today, just stuck using 10.7.5 or hacking it for something later, if the mate I gave it to so desires.

8 years isn't good. I just looked up Windows 10 official support and it's ten years. Ten. Security updates and all. Shoot Windows 7, released in 2009 will have extended support until 2020! Why can't Apple offer the same? Don't tell me it's different. A 2009 MacBook Pro is cut off from any updates. Done. Period. A computer from 2009 be it a Dell, HP etc still running Windows 7 will get official security updates until 2020. 11 years! So yes it can be done!

 

[old mac]

8 years isn't good. I just looked up Windows 10 official support and it's ten years. Ten. Security updates and all. Shoot Windows 7, released in 2009 will have extended support until 2020! Why can't Apple offer the same? Don't tell me it's different. A 2009 MacBook Pro is cut off from any updates. Done. Period. A computer from 2009 be it a Dell, HP etc still running Windows 7 will get official security updates until 2020. 11 years! So yes it can be done!

Yes it can be done, but the fanboys will excuse anything apple does.

 

[techguy15]

I was originally all Apple when the first iPhone came out and I've bounced back and forth admittedly. I wanted to give Mac a shot but I find it stupid I can't go one more version up but ancient little underpowered celeron processor netbooks running Windows 7 circa 2009 can still get security support updates but a 2010/2011 MacBook with powerful specs cannot go past 10.13.x. Any Apple fanboy PLEASE defend that.

 

[MBAir2010]

I’m very sceptical of Apple and have lost confidence in their honesty after Steve jobs passed.
My 2008 iPod is working, sounds a lot better than my iPod from 2012 and is built much better than this iPad I purchased last year.
Their online support is mundane and no way intended to problem solve, they are trained to sell new products rather than fixing the issue. High Sierra still has small annoying issues that never occurred in past OSXs and their In-store sales knowledge are limited, just yesterday someone lady purchased a new Mac book and was concerned over the longevity of the computer, he told her about nonsense updates and how great sending pictures was, nothing technical at all, so I asked if the MacBook has “metal” , then I told her just to make sure the word metal is in your laptop. He kinda knew about metal, but had no idea why that is important for future updates.
Are these floor genius supposed to know tech? He did have a shallow personality which I guess is more an asset than being knowledgeable.
[doublepost=1528798724][/doublepost]But the icing on the cake for me is how apple was bragging about how any Bluetooth keyboard can work on all iPads which is nice, but why can’t my ihome keyboard work where really-really needed, like my Mac mini?

Every month i swap an older 64GB ssd loaded with mountain lion in my MBAir 2010, and have 4 hours of batter usage compared to under 1 hour using the 124GB SSD running any OSX with plenty of spinning ball after 10.8.

 

[matreya]

So yes it can be done!

Perhaps Apple should charge for macOS again? Apple sells DEVICES, and Macs are a part of that, macOS is used by Apple to DRIVE sales of Macs. If you don't like Apple products anymore, vote with your wallet.

IF you had done your research, you would have known that the Mac you bought was going to fall into the unsupported category in a matter of years. Instead you bought based on price and got what you paid for.

As for a 2009 Macbook, there was a security update on Jun 1 - https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1967
[doublepost=1528806588][/doublepost]

Yes it can be done, but the fanboys will excuse anything apple does.

But it won't be done, because it would eat into Mac sales. Apple truly does not give a flying proverbial about old mac users who incessantly whinge about their old macs not being supported by a macOS release. If you're not buying a new Mac every 5-7 years, you're of no value to them. Capitalism eh?
[doublepost=1528806737][/doublepost]

Every month i swap an older 64GB ssd loaded with mountain lion in my MBAir 2010, and have 4 hours of batter usage compared to under 1 hour using the 124GB SSD running any OSX with plenty of spinning ball after 10.8.

Or, you could just, you know, buy and fit a new battery?

 

[MBAir2010]

“Or, you could just, you know, buy and fit a new battery?”

That is the point, the battery works great in an older OSX, the newer OS X has a program to shorten the battery life so I dumbly buy a new one, and of course overpay Apple to install it because I’m not qualified, certified or good enough to do that myself”.

 

[matreya]

the newer OS X has a program to shorten the battery life

ROFLMAO - you're crazy.

 

[FNH15]

“Or, you could just, you know, buy and fit a new battery?”

That is the point, the battery works great in an older OSX, the newer OS X has a program to shorten the battery life so I dumbly buy a new one, and of course overpay Apple to install it because I’m not qualified, certified or good enough to do that myself”.

Your Air probably has 2GB RAM, and is probably paging to the SSD. That, combined with an underpowered processor, is probably why you get such poor battery life. Have you tried a clean install of High Sierra?

For what it's worth, my Late 2013 on Mojave gets better battery life than Mavericks (what it shipped with).

On the original point, this support is not "pathetic." My Early 2008 MacBook in my signature was $1099, and was unsupported as of 10.7 Lion (officially). That's four years of official support from Apple, plus another couple of years when hacking it to run 10.8.5 (last updated in 2015). That's 7 years of support, which is the same amount as what the MacBook Pros of that era got. Apple has always been reliant for GPUs in MacOS, just look at how 10.5 dropped all of the older PowerPC Macs which had GPUs too slow to run Leopard's GUI. The old 9400Ms and 320Ms are barely powerful enough to run 10.13, and the HD3000 isn't aging much better either. Apple wants a consistent experience, so they're not going to support machines with non-Metal GPUs - that would hamper the adoption of UIKit apps...

 

[mastermind6192]

8 years isn't good. I just looked up Windows 10 official support and it's ten years. Ten. Security updates and all. Shoot Windows 7, released in 2009 will have extended support until 2020! Why can't Apple offer the same? Don't tell me it's different. A 2009 MacBook Pro is cut off from any updates. Done. Period. A computer from 2009 be it a Dell, HP etc still running Windows 7 will get official security updates until 2020. 11 years! So yes it can be done!

You're referencing the Windows 10 mainstream enterprise support not consumer editions per https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet. The newest versions only is supported until 2019. Older versions of Windows 10 have already ended support and newer creator updates (service packs) do change system requirements. Plus on top of it Windows 10 is the latest version of Windows so it makes sense they support it.

Secondly, for many years now Apple has been releasing a new version of Mac OS every year so it hard to compare it to windows lifecycles especially older products like Windows 7. Microsoft typically releases a new version of Windows every few years and just adds features over time. The updates for Windows 7 is just that security updates and nothing else so its barely supported. As for Window 8 nothing notable has been added since 8.1. Microsoft is getting away for their older support model.

Finally, Microsoft for the most part don't make computers so when they change system requirements there isn't some master list (that I know of) which notates which computers are supported. Because Apple controls hardware and software they know exactly which models won't work so it comes across a bit more harsh.

 

[Porthos38]

Not being able to run an old version of Windows in no way constitutes support?

I don't buy that.

How come I can run Windows 10 on an older computer from 2009-2010? Windows provides YEARS of support. I say that not even liking Windows necessarily. And what's this stupid "metal" thing that concerns whether my 2011 Mac gets supported or not? Sounds irrelevant to me.
[doublepost=1528236825][/doublepost]

So you're saying xcode will still be able to run on it? I won't need Mohave to run the latest xcode versions?

I'm learning to be a Mac OS developer. You can still do the development program / programming an make app or game, take money from the sell of your project to get a newer computer. I personally, love my 17" 2.2ghz i7 MBP and ports, can't come to terms of Apple new hardware.
[doublepost=1528818707][/doublepost]

No, it's not. Tech is tech is tech. Once you get past the 5 year mark you get to be on borrowed time. If you make it to 10 then it's a minor miracle.

You brought a device from 2011 and you really think Apple should keep supporting it because it's new to you?

SMH.

That 2011 will continue to run High Sierra for a good while yet. There's plenty of folk still on Yosemite etc. Stop being so disgruntled. You should have though more about this before purchasing it and done the analysis of price vs support.

I don't understand Apple tying dark mode to a new OS, everyone else add dark mode to Applications and OS without kicking customers in their bellies. They can give us Dark mode in X code, they did it to the other Apple products before Mojave
[doublepost=1528819300][/doublepost]

I’m very sceptical of Apple and have lost confidence in their honesty after Steve jobs passed.
My 2008 iPod is working, sounds a lot better than my iPod from 2012 and is built much better than this iPad I purchased last year.
Their online support is mundane and no way intended to problem solve, they are trained to sell new products rather than fixing the issue. High Sierra still has small annoying issues that never occurred in past OSXs and their In-store sales knowledge are limited, just yesterday someone lady purchased a new Mac book and was concerned over the longevity of the computer, he told her about nonsense updates and how great sending pictures was, nothing technical at all, so I asked if the MacBook has “metal” , then I told her just to make sure the word metal is in your laptop. He kinda knew about metal, but had no idea why that is important for future updates.
Are these floor genius supposed to know tech? He did have a shallow personality which I guess is more an asset than being knowledgeable.
[doublepost=1528798724][/doublepost]But the icing on the cake for me is how apple was bragging about how any Bluetooth keyboard can work on all iPads which is nice, but why can’t my ihome keyboard work where really-really needed, like my Mac mini?

Every month i swap an older 64GB ssd loaded with mountain lion in my MBAir 2010, and have 4 hours of batter usage compared to under 1 hour using the 124GB SSD running any OSX with plenty of spinning ball after 10.8.

An Apple working on killing Mac OS Server. an no one talking about Mac OS server under mojave
[doublepost=1528819598][/doublepost]

I was originally all Apple when the first iPhone came out and I've bounced back and forth admittedly. I wanted to give Mac a shot but I find it stupid I can't go one more version up but ancient little underpowered celeron processor netbooks running Windows 7 circa 2009 can still get security support updates but a 2010/2011 MacBook with powerful specs cannot go past 10.13.x. Any Apple fanboy PLEASE defend that.

man you really do need the update, that OS only have dark mode going for it.
[doublepost=1528819948][/doublepost]

I understand what you're saying, but you have to realize, Apple didn't drop support for your Mac to punish you or anything. They did it because the time and effort to support older GPU hardware is better spent elsewhere. I understand this doesn't help you, but it does help move macOS forward for the majority of users.

On the other hand, nothing stops you from doing your work on High Sierra for a few more years. Especially if you're just learning all this stuff.

they could have done it like Commodore Amiga new comes run AGA, older computer run the standard edition of OS.

 

[MBAir2010]

Your Air probably has 2GB RAM, and is probably paging to the SSD. That, combined with an underpowered processor, is probably why you get such poor battery life. Have you tried a clean install of High Sierra?

For what it's worth, my Late 2013 on Mojave gets better battery life than Mavericks (what it shipped with).

I’m running 4GB, the battery hours dwindled to under 1 hour after installing Mavericks that day, from 5 hours.
I remember this because I always took the MBAir to the terrace and streamed sports while outside.
The new ssd was intended for high Sierra.

 

[Porthos38]

The amount of software that has been written for Intel Macs is one hundred fold compared to the days of PPC. None will be compatible with ARM based architecture. Parallels Desktop, VMware Fusion, Final Cut Pro...all Apps written for Intel based Macs will be OUT

Not to mention BOOTCAMP!

yeah, Apple going to lose a lot people when they kill off all intels and bootcamp
[doublepost=1528820555][/doublepost]

"I'm afraid to get an iPhone SE." ---> "I'm afraid to get an iPhone 6."

Actually, specs-wise, the SE is on a higher level than the 6. The hardware is much closer to a 6S, so it's very likely it'll be supported longer than the 6.

It should be: "I'm afraid to get an iPhone 7."

I'm still waiting on my iPhone 6 to bend

 

[FNH15]

My mistake. 4GB Ram is still the bare minimum these days. What is your battery health and which model MBA do you have?

 

[Porthos38]

Nobody else has to do that, so I'm not sure why you feel you have to get a new Mac every year. 7 years is a really long time in computer life. In fact, I have to kind of laugh at people who complain about the cost of smartphones after they say they HAVE TO UPGRADE every year. You DON'T have to upgrade every year, you just want to.

I don't see any real developers complaining about this, only consumers who stupidly pay $99 for a developer account just so they can get a beta two months before everyone else.

an people really don't need the $99 developer account, unless you want to do business with Apple App store. Im still rocking my iPhone 6, 17" MBP 2011, Mac Pro 2010. Apple don't make anything worth upgrading to.

 

[MBAir2010]

My mistake. 4GB Ram is still the bare minimum these days. What is your battery health and which model MBA do you have?

attery Power:

System Sleep Timer (Minutes): 45

Disk Sleep Timer (Minutes): 10

Display Sleep Timer (Minutes): 14

Wake on AC Change: No

Wake on Clamshell Open: Yes

Current Power Source: Yes

DarkWakeBackgroundTasks: 0

Display Sleep Uses Dim: Yes

Hibernate Mode: 3

Reduce Brightness: Yes

Standby Delay: 4200

Standby Enabled: 1
[doublepost=1528827215][/doublepost]

an people really don't need the $99 developer account,

OH! Apple charges $99 bucks to transfer the files from an older into a new one.

 

[hans1972]

8 years isn't good. I just looked up Windows 10 official support and it's ten years. Ten. Security updates and all. Shoot Windows 7, released in 2009 will have extended support until 2020! Why can't Apple offer the same? Don't tell me it's different. A 2009 MacBook Pro is cut off from any updates. Done. Period. A computer from 2009 be it a Dell, HP etc still running Windows 7 will get official security updates until 2020. 11 years! So yes it can be done!

No one is denying it cannot be done. It is just that Apple choose not to have long support for old stuff. Heck, they could even had support for 20 years if they wanted to.

If having software support for 10 years is important to you, you need to check that out before you buy.

 

[aevan]

they could have done it like Commodore Amiga new comes run AGA, older computer run the standard edition of OS.

Or just do what they did - drop support on almost decade old hardware to focus their engineering efforts on newer computers, leaving the old ones to run a still perfectly fine High Sierra.

 

[AZhappyjack]

I'm glad I didn't sign up and pay $99 to be a developer now that my Mac won't be supported for Mojave. Based on this I wouldn't buy another Mac again. Period.
How can you have 7 year old laptops dropped? It literally makes no sense that I can run high sierra and now I can't run Mojave. I was going to fully invest in the Apple ecosystem based on how I was enjoying my MacBook and I assumed that it would be supported for at least another few years seeing that it's fully capable spec wise. Now I wouldn't touch another Apple product. I came from a PC, chose a Mac and now I'll be headed back to Windows and Linux where devices are supported. I'm afraid to get an iPhone SE. would it be dropped after ios 12? Wouldn't doubt it

Interesting... so you're taking your ball and going home... not sure what to say... support has to end for stuff at some point... 7 years is a pretty long time for technology to still be relevant.
[doublepost=1528851054][/doublepost]

What's with this sudden resurgence of whining from folk expecting their old devices to still work with all the latest operating systems?

True story: I just fired up my 2012 Droid Incredible. Rather unsurprisingly Google no longer allow it to connect to my Gmail account. Think I need to hop on over to the first Android forum I can find and complain incessantly how Google don't care about supporting users with old hardware...

Hey, now... entitlement is a good thing... ok, not really.
[doublepost=1528851286][/doublepost]

Again, I'm a newbie. I'm just barely getting into learning about variables etc. I'm nowhere near employable either full time or part time. I'm in process of taking a course online. A newbie mechanic starting out learning about cars doesn't buy a 2018 Ferrari to learn the beginnings of car mechanics. They buy an older model to start with and work their way up. I can work my way up with Mac but now I don't know if next year they're gonna cut off the next model of Mac I plan on buying. It's practically a guessing game. And a very expensive one at that

It's not a guessing game. If you buy a new Mac today, Apple will not drop support next year... I'd guess this actually makes your life easier ... one less thing to worry about learning...
[doublepost=1528851465][/doublepost]

I see seven year old devices running the latest version of software. Again I don't see why they can't support a seven year old Mac. It's not old. And I didn't let any door hit me on my way out. They have automatic doors with censors in my apartment so thankfully they stay open when I enter or exit
[doublepost=1528239150][/doublepost]

Agreed. I'm trying to just get the hang of xcode and all its functions and stuff. That's one thing. Now I have to deal with possibly getting an entire new machine that supports it year after year. At some point it's gotta stop. It's like having to upgrade phones year after year. Shouldn't have to do that.

If the hardware doesn't support Metal, there's very little that can be done at this point.

You can still work to 'get the hang go xcode' ... stay on High Sierra, and you can still run Xcode... you can always get the update from the App Store, independent of the macOS version...

 

[redheeler]

You can still work to 'get the hang go xcode' ... stay on High Sierra, and you can still run Xcode... you can always get the update from the App Store, independent of the macOS version...

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Xcode support for older MacOS versions typically doesn't even last six months. Afterward you're stuck with an older version that may not allow you to run apps on your device running the latest version of iOS.