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Finally intel says something that is mostly true. macOS just isn’t good for games. I wish it were - but it is not. For my needs, and speaking as a programmer, it is better in nearly every other way. But it sucks at games.

im glad to see the top comments of this thread are speaking some sense, as i fully agree with this. most of my productivity occurs on my apple devices.

most of my fun occurs on my custom built gaming pc. macOS just terminally fails to deliver decent gaming performance for anything other than “i cant be around my PC right now so i’ll settle for this, but the experience isnt that good.”
 
As a PC gamer, I honestly have never really cared for any of the console games or wanted any of them to make it to PC. It's all to do with the fact that console gamers are still stuck on their noobstick controllers. I play a ton of first person shooter games with a mouse, so this is where consoles really fail for me. That said, the only games I've ever been interested to come to PC are; Gran Turismo (will probably NEVER happen) and Resistance games.

And no, PC Gaming is not going to get niche... everyone's been saying that for years or decades. PC Gaming hasn't gone anywhere and never will; the hardware will always be better and thus the games will always have an edge over consoles.
This is why I waited SO LONG for Halo games to come to PC. I played them on console, but I was so so so bad at it. Controller + FPS SUCKS! I am glad I can play Halo MCC with Keyboard and Mouse now.

Only console games I like are the story games I mentioned a few posts back. Person 5 Royal has become one of my favorite games of all time. Now, Trails in the Sky series is approaching the top 5 for me.

Why get a powerful computer when you can stream 4k Halo on your phone or tablet? Or I can get a cheapo laptop and suddenly it can do 4k gaming since its all in the cloud. I think it will become more niche than you think. Cloud gaming wasn't a major thing like it is now, I can see it taking down PC gaming to a niche category.
 
Hehe better not overuse the butterfly keyboard, save the characters for something that worth arguing, e.g Epic law suit 😉. Macs incl. macOS sucks for games and always did. These games even worked better on DOS and Win95. Get a Mac of the same game release year and see how it sucked compared to any beige box of the same year. Just because today’s mac can run a 30 year old game, does not make it better, even a 50$ raspberry pi can run these.
I for one am in agreement that the butterfly keyboards are a joke. However, I have never met a laptop keyboard I liked - maybe the expensive gaming ones that have mechanical keyboards, but I have not bought gaming laptops. I, however, use a Logitech G910. I LOVE this keyboard. Bought 6 of them - literally over the last 5 years. Mechanical keyboards are the best, even when programming.

Well I can buy a PC now with integrated graphics, and get a brand new game this release year and it will still suck. BTW, the AMD 5700XT blows the socks off my GTX 1080. I borrowed one from a friend, and man its literally 30% improvement over my GTX 1080. And that same GPU is on the iMac. Might be thermally throttled a bit, but it should still at least match a GTX 1080 that can still play new games at 1080p well.
 
I feel bad to have spent 2000$ for a PC, just to play one game. I Thought I would also use it for some video and photo work. But I can't stand MS Window OS. I ended Hackintoshing it with dual boot. But in the end I only use it for one game and my Macs for work.
 
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The PC game market is niche. Compared to the mobile gaming market, which is rightfully where Apple channels its attention to given that it was way more iPhones in circulation compared to Macs.

People clamouring for Apple to “take PC gaming seriously” don’t seem to understand why Apple makes the choices they do. For example, their laptops used to ship with middling GPUs because these are what will give your MacBooks sustained performance over a decent period of time. Invaluable when say, editing video away from a power outlet. Rather than a more powerful GPU that basically throttles or deactivates any time the laptop isn’t plugged in to an external power source.

That's what a lot of this comes down to. The MacBook Pro (as with many Macs) was designed as a system that balances performance with power efficiency. You can get Windows PC laptops with more powerful mobile GPUs than what the MacBook Pro has. But if the goal is to get work done on battery, using the portable as a portable, then the best mobile GPU is the one that performs when you're actually mobile. Not what gives the best Crysis benchmarks.

Apple is never going to enter the desktop gaming market. It just doesn’t fit in with their design priorities (thin and light form factor is at odd with the need for greater heat dissipation to accommodate a powerful graphics card). If you want a gaming PC, by all means build one yourself. Don’t get a Mac. I don’t think Apple will lose sleep over a lost sale that wasn’t their target market to begin with. Especially when for every one person who doesn’t buy the iMac because it can’t game well, there are probably many more who will buy it precisely because of its more attractive, slimmer profile.
Not to mention, it is quite common for the Windows laptops to lose 50% of the performance when unplugged. Yay, I guess?
 
I think Apple may get into serious gaming, but it might start at the Apple TV side of things (ie. console competitor) and then perhaps migrate to the Mac.

It's certainly possible that they could create hardware that would blow current PC & Consoles out of the water.

it would take many, many, many years, and it would be so prohibitively expensive that no one in this market would even care.

hardware that ”blows” current PCs out of the water would cost so much more than necessary to the point that gamers who build / buy their own PCs just arent going to take. apple’s devices until the M chips typically just lagged behind the competition anyway and werent even the top hardware offerings for insane prices. want to upgrade an iMac or MBP M1 to 16gb of ram? add $200 for some bulk ram just to add 8gb.

you can buy 32gb of fantastic DDR4 for that much, or cheaper if buying wisely.

something from apple that would be comparable to or exceed the power of my 3080 would cost way more than it, thus rendering it pointless to bother with. not to mention, apple doesnt have the industry relationships that NVIDIA has developed, and hasnt even gone through gen 1 of any raytracing technology. amd even lags behind NVIDIA on this right now and they’re the chip of choice for the current gen of consoles.

so then let’s say the make a console. it would also be stupidly expensive comparatively, with absolutely none of the benefits. with playstation, the first party content alone is ahead of everyone else in the industry. the dualsense controller is a highly developed peripheral that dynamically enhances the experience of any game that takes great advantage of it.

while xbox has had garbage first party offerings in the last handful of years and failed to deliver their one heavyweight first party launch title (halo infinite), they at least have the benefit of game pass.

apple has no major dev studios under their belt to deliver blockbuster games that would attract people to the platform. it’s not like ATV+ where they can buy contracts for top tier actors and have shows / movies made, or purchase the rights to such things in development. they’d have to hire top talent in the industry, form a dev studio, and then set those people loose for *years* before they bear any fruit, and then hope it’s not a bug ridden mess.

and they’d have to spend the time to develop great *feeling* peripherals that have any sort of reason to exist in the same echelon as the dualsense or xbox controllers. there’s a good reason why apple now directly sells dualsense controllers. those 3rd party MFi controllers have been astoundingly horrible.

Apple should just develop better support for things like DirectX, Vulkan, and raytracing. Their move to totally axe 32bit programs from being allowed to run on the platform shut out a lot of great games that were otherwise running great. And they didnt turn around and put their best foot forward to further support for games on Mac.

to which point, i think they just dont care. I think Metal & Metal 2 were all they cared to go after, which was just *another* API that devs would have to implement. now with apple arcade, i dont think they’re going to bother offering more for gaming on their platform than that.
 
it would take many, many, many years, and it would be so prohibitively expensive that no one in this market would even care.

hardware that ”blows” current PCs out of the water would cost so much more than necessary to the point that gamers who build / buy their own PCs just arent going to take. apple’s devices until the M chips typically just lagged behind the competition anyway and werent even the top hardware offerings for insane prices. want to upgrade an iMac or MBP M1 to 16gb of ram? add $200 for some bulk ram just to add 8gb.

you can buy 32gb of fantastic DDR4 for that much, or cheaper if buying wisely.

something from apple that would be comparable to or exceed the power of my 3080 would cost way more than it, thus rendering it pointless to bother with. not to mention, apple doesnt have the industry relationships that NVIDIA has developed, and hasnt even gone through gen 1 of any raytracing technology. amd even lags behind NVIDIA on this right now and they’re the chip of choice for the current gen of consoles.

so then let’s say the make a console. it would also be stupidly expensive comparatively, with absolutely none of the benefits. with playstation, the first party content alone is ahead of everyone else in the industry. the dualsense controller is a highly developed peripheral that dynamically enhances the experience of any game that takes great advantage of it.

while xbox has had garbage first party offerings in the last handful of years and failed to deliver their one heavyweight first party launch title (halo infinite), they at least have the benefit of game pass.

apple has no major dev studios under their belt to deliver blockbuster games that would attract people to the platform. it’s not like ATV+ where they can buy contracts for top tier actors and have shows / movies made, or purchase the rights to such things in development. they’d have to hire top talent in the industry, form a dev studio, and then set those people loose for *years* before they bear any fruit, and then hope it’s not a bug ridden mess.

and they’d have to spend the time to develop great *feeling* peripherals that have any sort of reason to exist in the same echelon as the dualsense or xbox controllers. there’s a good reason why apple now directly sells dualsense controllers. those 3rd party MFi controllers have been astoundingly horrible.

Apple should just develop better support for things like DirectX, Vulkan, and raytracing. Their move to totally axe 32bit programs from being allowed to run on the platform shut out a lot of great games that were otherwise running great. And they didnt turn around and put their best foot forward to further support for games on Mac.

to which point, i think they just dont care. I think Metal & Metal 2 were all they cared to go after, which was just *another* API that devs would have to implement. now with apple arcade, i dont think they’re going to bother offering more for gaming on their platform than that.
You also need the content if you want to compete. Going up against the behemoth like Microsoft with their in house studio - including now Bethesda is going to be quite difficult. Same with Sony with their studio. Only hope I see for Apple is if they do a Nintendo - create your own franchise like Mario is and fully embrace it and have crazy great spinoffs and fun games like Mario Party, Super Smash Bros and more.
 
Apple is never going to enter the desktop gaming market. It just doesn’t fit in with their design priorities (thin and light form factor is at odd with the need for greater heat dissipation to accommodate a powerful graphics card). If you want a gaming PC, by all means build one yourself. Don’t get a Mac. I don’t think Apple will lose sleep over a lost sale that wasn’t their target market to begin with. Especially when for every one person who doesn’t buy the iMac because it can’t game well, there are probably many more who will buy it precisely because of its more attractive, slimmer profile.
This is largely due to the fact that none of Intel, AMD or Nvidia’s offerings are able to provide Apple the necessary products that Apple need to design their ideal Mac. Apple Silicon will likely change that.

I for one thinks that games developers will start taking interest in macOS when the installed base of Macs are big and capable enough to run games. The M1 Macs are already capable, and macOS already have enough APIs for developers to produce good games. I’ll say give it 2-3 years and we may start seeing a change.
 
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The Mac Fanboi's have been VERY hostile to gamers for quite some time.
I remember being told that a Mac Mini isn't made for gaming which is why it couldn't handle Portal. Apparently a TI-83 can run DOOM ][ but a Mac Mini can't. Go figure.

The real problem was a logic board issue not triggered the fan to speed up, but they couldn't deal with the fact that it was a Mac problem. So... "Mac's can't run games" was the excuse.

Since then, my a few friends and family avoid Apple because "nothing Apple can do games". I shrug. It's a well-deserved reputation.

And until MacOS can run all of Blizzards games or half of my Steam Library, I simply can't make it my main machine. It'll sit right next to me for when I need to use XCode or something Mac-specific.

And in the next year I'll be looking to replace my gaming laptop (doesn't have to be a laptop, could be a desktop) and it's not likely Apple will be capable of getting their gaming act together by then so, at least for me, it won't be a new Mac of any kind.

Especially until I see less hostility from the community about gamers, not interested in hearing excuses in how MacOS can't do games again. It'll be a while before I forget that attitude from the community. Easier to get help with weird bugs with Windows anyways so...
 
This is largely due to the fact that none of Intel, AMD or Nvidia’s offerings are able to provide Apple the necessary products that Apple need to design their ideal Mac. Apple Silicon will likely change that.

I for one thinks that games developers will start taking interest in macOS when the installed base of Macs are big and capable enough to run games. The M1 Macs are already capable, and macOS already have enough APIs for developers to produce good games. I’ll say give it 2-3 years and we may start seeing a change.
Believe it or not, there are some popular games on macOS. And things are changing with game engines and technologies.

In the next 5 years, it honestly won't matter anymore. Want to play Cyberpunk on a $200 chromebook, there is cloud gaming for that!
 
Uh... what? I have a Hackintosh with a Gigabyte 5700 XT Gaming OC, the difference in Windows is huge. GRID Autosport @ Ultra Settings at 1440p, I average about 70-75fps while in Windows I get well over 100fps. Hell, at 4k Ultra settings, the 5700 XT averages about 103fps;
Interesting.

My most recent GPU was the RX 590 and I just didn’t see a significant difference in the gaming.

Then again, the 590 isn’t exactly premo, and I’ve never been much for overclocking my hardware.
 
Well to be fair, its rather ridiculous that Intel claims they are the reason anything has good gaming experience. You absolutely CANNOT have a good gaming experience WITHOUT either AMD or NVIDIA GPU - nothing Intel there. And AMD CPUs are better for gaming too. So what exactly is Intel's point? A 2019 Mac Pro with a 5700XT GPU is just as good as my custom built PC with a 5700XT GPU.
Dollar for dollar, PC's still win.
That's entirely excluding the a.) lack of full game support from various game devs and b.) entirely excluding the hostility of games from the Mac community of which tends to leave a sour taste in my mouth and many people I know who still think Mac's can't do much. I don't care to correct that until Apple can absolutely beyond the benefit of the doubt show their support behind the gaming community. So...

When it comes to games, I'd rather run it on Linux than MacOS. At least you get help trying to figure things out if you run into trouble.
 
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Is Intel scared of the M1X?

Bet intel saw some engineering samples of the M1X and fainted and then rushed to make this ad.

Who buys a Mac for gaming? why make this ad otherwise?

Intel will probably be bought out (at a great discount) by some Chinese company within 10 years.

A combination of Apple's own in-house chips plus the ascension of smaller underdogs like AMD, Nvidia, etc. will seal the nails on Intel's coffin. Of course, even when Intel dies, Intel will die being correct.... Apple is always too stupid to "get" gaming. Apple just doesn't get gaming. So when Intel dies, some other small underdog will take its place in dominance of gaming CPUs and GPUs.
 
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So Macs are no good for games...wonderful as it demonstrates my choice of Apple for productivity was a good choice.
Never played a game on my iMacs, as I expect them to earn their keep, which they do relentlessly and without constant interventions, etc.

Must say some of the posts on here look decidedly like they are sponsored by Intel

Why would you even bother to come on to a Mac site, and say you don't use them!

Horses for courses.

My business was originally Wintel based platform and I remember the countless problems reconfiguring daily on some occasions and that win.ini.

The productivity on the Mac is great and long may that continue.

Intel must be really worried at the prospect of the next M series chip to engage in such puerile nonsense.

To make matters worse for themselves they effectively slagged off their own chips!

Playing games does not figure in my companies profitable business.
Depends what you refer to as productivity apps. Any decent computer can run garden variety productivity apps like MS Office, browsers, email clients, accounting software, etc. I still do that stuff on a nine year old machine. But if your job requires running 3D EM simulations Apple doesn’t offer a lot in that area. Basically just the MP and even there you are limited because of decisions Apple has made about what third party hardware they will support.
 
As much as I love both Windows and macOS... Intel why you scare bruh... 🤣
I feel like Intel doesn't realize that when people buy Macs they somewhat know what they're getting, I know when I bought my MacBook Pro (M1) I knew what I was expecting, it's not a gaming machine like my PC RIG so yeah.
 
Cannot agree less. Gaming on Mac is fundamentally a hardware issue, and has always been that way. The vast majority of Macs sold during the last decades have Intel iGPU which is useless except for vary very light gaming and 10-years old titles. Even in the high-end popular Macs for 2500$+, Apple never included top tier dedicated GPU from Nvidia but instead relied on AMD which, except for the last generation, has always lacked behind by a wide margin. As a developer, if you know that probably 98% of Mac users have integrated GPU from Intel, there is no financial reasoning to develop a title for Mac, unless your game uses very little resources, in which case, it is better to optimize your game for mobile devices rather than investing your time porting the game into MacOS. Having the external GPU compatibility with the Intel Macs and Thunderbolt 3 was a move in the right direction, but with Apple Silicon, this is now gone (at least for now), so unless Apple has some monstrous chip in its lab with 32 or 64-core GPU, that is used in sub-2000$ Mac machines, gaming on Mac will continue to be poor. Gamers dont care about team blue vs team red, they care about raw performance, ultra setting, high resolution and high frame rates. The vast majority of gamers are young adults or kids and have limited budget so they would just buy the best GPU for the money they have. The only way Mac gaming could become relevant, is if Apple has a silicon that can deliver RTX 3060 performance in the 1,500$ price range which is already double the average that people spent on a new laptop.
You talk about limited budgets, go into specifics about raw performance as if games aren't optimized for Nvidia or AMD and then throw iGPUs under the bus when they are adequate for most budget gamers which is the general population.

Are you also saying that you need a RTX 3060 to have a good gaming experience? If so we can end the conversation right there because you are out of touch.
 
it really isnt. considering the active market for graphics cards ranges from like $200 to $2000, and that’s just one part of the whole machine.…it’s much larger than you give any credit for.

if anything, Macs are a niche market.
Last I checked, Apple isn't in the business of manufacturing graphics cards for sale. So when you consider that the target demographic (gamers) typically just shop online for the best prices they can find on the individual components to get the best bang for their hardware buck, there is no way Apple will be able to create a Mac that would make financial sense for this market.

So it's probably just as well that their new M1 Macs are designed to offer great performance without the need for costly components, at a time when graphics cards are getting rarer and more expensive due to crypto mining. Look at the M1. Sleek, thin, quiet, lower power consumption, and best of all, the M1 is probably cheaper to manufacture than pairing an intel processor with an AMD GPU. It is everything the competition is not able to provide, and it finally allows Apple to make the kind of Macs they want to make.

And we are all better off for it.
 
So many fanboys on this forum that are unable to criticise Apple. You SHOULD be able to play games on Apple computers.
 
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Believe it or not, there are some popular games on macOS. And things are changing with game engines and technologies.

In the next 5 years, it honestly won't matter anymore. Want to play Cyberpunk on a $200 chromebook, there is cloud gaming for that!
The Internet would have to improve tremendously for cloud gaming to take off IMHO. RTT for nodes halfway across the globe currently is between 100-200ms. Starting a ssh session for a server that's halfway across the globe is already quite unbearable as I can see the commands I typed appearing slowly after I typed. I can't imagine how this can play out in a game tho.

I think the entire world's ISPs would have to standardise on some form of QoS to enable speedy delivery of cloud gaming traffic, and it'll likely cost cloud gamers additional monthly subscriptions to enjoy this offering.
 
So many fanboys on this forum that are unable to criticise Apple. You SHOULD be able to play games on Apple computers.
I know what sacrifices I had to make when I got my first iMac in 2011. It basically meant saying goodbye to my entire library of games after almost 2 decades of owning a PC and I don't regret it one bit.
 
Historically I’d agree, then I saw Apple Arcade and Divinity OS2 running on a Mac so erm… yeah.
Cool story and all but I’ll hold off until Apple releases their new processsors; still very, very burned from MS’s Win 10 update I didn’t ask for wiping 2 ssds. Their response was “well it is a free upgrade” not ideal and either way, ive got a PS4 Pro that does the business ;)
 
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