Popular YouTuber Says Apple Won't Fix His iMac Pro Damaged While Disassembled

[alien3dx]

3) no offense but, I take it that English isn’t your first language. It’s difficult to understand what you’re saying.

Sir , if you don't understand it's okay.But to said not first language kinda rude. It's more a technical term, which apple pretty bad on program memory management.

In the end , it just a computer with normal part outsources from other vendor like normal computer. As picture been i posted before, it just a provocation to apple to gain high video view. A premium ibm server doesn't mean it can take any ram from other, you must re-order from them in then end. So as apple, their premium price must be be repair by their official repair serviceman as other vendor does it also. Want to repair outside the box? Void warranty .

 

[GizmoDVD]

Linus got exactly what he wanted out of this - page views and subscribers. I didn’t even know who this fool was.

 

[ROGmaster]

And you know this because?

Oh wait. You don't know at all. Sorry, it's not my fault he trashed a $5000 computer. It's ALL on him. Quit making excuses for sheer stupidity.

LoL, are you really trying to act smart?

Because that is the answer he got from the Apple Store. That they have to change 3 parts but HQ won't send them.

 

[Maxx Power]

Apple can sell parts at Apple prices and lock-down the parts to their chipsets that their manufacturing contractors can only get from them to cut down on bootleg operations. If some know-it-all wants to buy and fry a $500 all-in-one logicboard from a $600 Mac mini, because he wants to “stick it to the man”, I don’t think Apple would care very much.

This is what the FTC said according to Wikipedia:

"In April 2018, the Federal Trade Commission sent notice to six automobile, consumer electronics, and video game console manufacturers stating that their warranty practices may violation the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The FTC specifically identified that informing consumers that warranties are voided if they break a warranty sticker or seal on the unit's packaging, use third-party replacement parts, or use third-party repair services is a deceptive practice, as these terms are only valid if the manufacturer provides free warranty service or replacement parts."

This sounds a lot like the FTC is paving way for right-to-repair legislations. While Apple can "lock-down the parts", for NOW, they are not in what I think is a good ethical position.

 

[Sc0rp]

This is what the FTC said according to Wikipedia:

"In April 2018, the Federal Trade Commission sent notice to six automobile, consumer electronics, and video game console manufacturers stating that their warranty practices may violation the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The FTC specifically identified that informing consumers that warranties are voided if they break a warranty sticker or seal on the unit's packaging, use third-party replacement parts, or use third-party repair services is a deceptive practice, as these terms are only valid if the manufacturer provides free warranty service or replacement parts."

This sounds a lot like the FTC is paving way for right-to-repair legislations. While Apple can "lock-down the parts", for NOW, they are not in what I think is a good ethical position.

If you actually read the magnussen-moss warranty act, you’ll see that items that are broken by anything other than manufacturer defect can be stripped of its warranty.

So here’s what I’m talking about:

Here’s apple’s terms of service:

So, either tell me how Apple is violating the Magnuson-moss warranty act in the case of Linus or stop citing the magnussen moss warranty act and acting like you’re being clever when you’re absolutely not being clever.

Also, it’s becoming clear that your idea of being “ethical” is to give you everything you want as though Apple is some sort of charity. Apple is a business and they have a duty to make products and sell those products to customers. If you don’t like that they “lock down” their proprietary parts to maintain the exclusivity and control of their IP then simply don’t buy Apple stuff. Stop begging or demanding Apple to essentially commit suicide to satisfy your armchair ceo point of view.

You’re talking about void warranty stickers but Apple will service machines that the user opened, modified and so on but if the user breaks ANYTHING, then the user is on the hook. If ANYTHING the user installs breaks the product then the user is on the hook. The law won’t make Apple grant you warranty on something you broke through purposeful action and whining about how that’s ethical won’t change that. The ethical thing to do is not expect other to fix messes that you made yourself.

Sir , if you don't understand it's okay.But to said not first language kinda rude. It's more a technical term, which apple pretty bad on program memory management.

In the end , it just a computer with normal part outsources from other vendor like normal computer. As picture been i posted before, it just a provocation to apple to gain high video view. A premium ibm server doesn't mean it can take any ram from other, you must re-order from them in then end. So as apple, their premium price must be be repair by their official repair serviceman as other vendor does it also. Want to repair outside the box? Void warranty .

I assumed that English wasn’t your first language because your syntax is really difficult to parse and nigh-unintelligible.

Anyhow, I could make a little sense of what you’re saying here... sorta.

It is important to remember that Apple is Apple. There is no utility in expecting Apple to be dell or HP... tho you can void your warranty by similarly opening either an hp or a dell and trashing the internal components
[doublepost=1524746525][/doublepost]

LoL, are you really trying to act smart?

Because that is the answer he got from the Apple Store. That they have to change 3 parts but HQ won't send them.

It’s funny that Linus never showed Apple telling him that they tried to order the parts or HQ wouldn’t send parts. Why would an Apple store order parts without discussing price with Linus at all and getting confirmation that he’ll pay the price for out of warranty repair like this? I ask because there’s zero mention of price in linuses video.

Apple said, off the break, that they can not service a machine that an unauthorized party has opened and messed up but he should bring it in for inspection. That’s really the only thing linus actually showed concerning what Apple would do concerning his iMac Pro. The next conversation where they were talking about “if they can’t get the parts, they can’t fix your Mac” or whatever, they were talking about what a third party shop could/couldn’t do. For all we know, Linus called one shop and gave up, called ten shops and picked the one shop that couldn’t get the part to whine about or didn’t even call a shop at all and just made everything up about the “Apple pro certification” which sounds like a non-apple guy’s idea of what an Apple certification would be named.

 

[elektra1210]

This is what the FTC said according to Wikipedia:

"In April 2018, the Federal Trade Commission sent notice to six automobile, consumer electronics, and video game console manufacturers stating that their warranty practices may violation the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The FTC specifically identified that informing consumers that warranties are voided if they break a warranty sticker or seal on the unit's packaging, use third-party replacement parts, or use third-party repair services is a deceptive practice, as these terms are only valid if the manufacturer provides free warranty service or replacement parts."

This sounds a lot like the FTC is paving way for right-to-repair legislations. While Apple can "lock-down the parts", for NOW, they are not in what I think is a good ethical position.

Pretty sure it was purchased in Canada from what I remember about the video. I'm not sure this Act would apply to purchases outside the US. In any event, Apple isn't saying NO, they just don't have the parts. This isn't anything new, the same thing happened with the trash can mac pros. I wouldn't be shocked if they voided his warranty completely after that video there is proof he actually opened the machine and not being a ACMT. That's totally within Apple rights to deny any repair at that point.

 

[alien3dx]

If you actually read the magnussen-moss warranty act, you’ll see
I assumed that English wasn’t your first language because your syntax is really difficult to parse and nigh-unintelligible.

Anyhow, I could make a little sense of what you’re saying here... sorta.

It is important to remember that Apple is Apple. There is no utility in expecting Apple to be dell or HP... tho you can void your warranty by similarly opening either an hp or a dell and trashing the internal components
[doublepost=1524746525][/doublepost]

Assumption is a bad habit. Pulling ddr3 RAM from XXX model from IBM doesn't it will work XXX model from ibm which on the manual said it was for ddr3.

I have good experience with acer laptop. Removing the sticker don't actually void my warranty at all. I don't see any sticker on dell, but it is the worst vendor in my experience.

" they can not service a machine that an unauthorized party has opened and messed up but he should bring it in for inspection"

The word service and repair are in diff term.You can service a car, but hardly you can service a computer part unless you're blowing dust.

The problem of that you-tuber is simple, he just want to provoke to get view. If he really wanted to repair, just send to
Louis Rossmann.

I would like to knew the result, because want to see the spark in the video are true or fake.

 

[Maxx Power]

If you actually read the magnussen-moss warranty act, you’ll see that items that are broken by anything other than manufacturer defect can be stripped of its warranty.

So here’s what I’m talking about:

Here’s apple’s terms of service:

So, either tell me how Apple is violating the Magnuson-moss warranty act in the case of Linus or stop citing the magnussen moss warranty act and acting like you’re being clever when you’re absolutely not being clever.

Also, it’s becoming clear that your idea of being “ethical” is to give you everything you want as though Apple is some sort of charity. Apple is a business and they have a duty to make products and sell those products to customers. If you don’t like that they “lock down” their proprietary parts to maintain the exclusivity and control of their IP then simply don’t buy Apple stuff. Stop begging or demanding Apple to essentially commit suicide to satisfy your armchair ceo point of view.

You’re talking about void warranty stickers but Apple will service machines that the user opened, modified and so on but if the user breaks ANYTHING, then the user is on the hook. If ANYTHING the user installs breaks the product then the user is on the hook. The law won’t make Apple grant you warranty on something you broke through purposeful action and whining about how that’s ethical won’t change that. The ethical thing to do is not expect other to fix messes that you made yourself.

If you can drop your personal attacks for a second and stop assuming that I was trying to be "clever", you'll see that I never directly cited the Magnussen-Moss act. I merely stated that the FTC is paving the way for right-to-repair legislations. These legislations stipulate that manufacturers of devices has to allow the end user to tinker and repair their own properties, where the alternative is the current Apple model to lock users into their service providers. That Apple can not sell these parts because of whatever excuse, is a sorry state of the Apple's support system.

This isn't about "armchair ceo point of view" at all. This is about what I as a consumer believe to be proper ethics in business and ecology. You are free to mock my perspective, but your type-casting of my position doesn't elevate you to be right.

Since you cited the Magnussen-Moss Act, you should know that only those things that the user breaks while tinkering with their own properties have warranties that are voided. I conversed with an Apple tech specifically about this regarding my SSD upgrades. So, how many modules are there in the iMac Pro? How many did Linus break? We don't know, and that's not even important in context with this discussion.

I also pointed out that another reviewer (Anand of Anandtech) broke his review Mac Pro and an AASP proactively reached out to him to offer him a new replacement part for a fee. So why the double standard? A customer is a customer and money is money - that's how business is supposed to work. I have not heard any explanations to this discrepancy that paints Apple in any positive light.
[doublepost=1524761418][/doublepost]

Pretty sure it was purchased in Canada from what I remember about the video. I'm not sure this Act would apply to purchases outside the US. In any event, Apple isn't saying NO, they just don't have the parts. This isn't anything new, the same thing happened with the trash can mac pros. I wouldn't be shocked if they voided his warranty completely after that video there is proof he actually opened the machine and not being a ACMT. That's totally within Apple rights to deny any repair at that point.

Apple offers international warranty and support. I have had many computers purchased from Apple over different parts of the world and was always able to get proper service in the US and Canada. Many here think that Apple not having the parts to repair computers that they sell is a statement of the state of Apple's service.

 

[Sc0rp]

Assumption is a bad habit. Pulling ddr3 RAM from XXX model from IBM doesn't it will work XXX model from ibm which on the manual said it was for ddr3.

I have good experience with acer laptop. Removing the sticker don't actually void my warranty at all. I don't see any sticker on dell, but it is the worst vendor in my experience.

" they can not service a machine that an unauthorized party has opened and messed up but he should bring it in for inspection"

The word service and repair are in diff term.You can service a car, but hardly you can service a computer part unless you're blowing dust.

The problem of that you-tuber is simple, he just want to provoke to get view. If he really wanted to repair, just send to
Louis Rossmann.

I would like to knew the result, because want to see the spark in the video are true or fake.

Service means to work on it. If Apple does anything with your computer beyond look at it, they are servicing it. If apple fixes your computer, that’s service. Also, Louis rossman doesn’t have any schematics or anything like that on the iMac Pro. Fixing that would be very different from fixing MacBooks that he gets day in and day out.

Pretty sure it was purchased in Canada from what I remember about the video. I'm not sure this Act would apply to purchases outside the US. In any event, Apple isn't saying NO, they just don't have the parts. This isn't anything new, the same thing happened with the trash can mac pros. I wouldn't be shocked if they voided his warranty completely after that video there is proof he actually opened the machine and not being a ACMT. That's totally within Apple rights to deny any repair at that point.

Apple said no and they are well within their rights to do so. Apple didn’t say they don’t have parts that’s something that linus claimed but never showed in his video. Also, from experience, if Apple didn’t have parts, they certainly wouldn’t tell Linus or any other customer that. Who wants to get fired for spilling the beans?

Linuses employees told Apple that they opened the machine and while doing that, they broke the screen and shorted out the system. The Apple rep told them that Apple can not service a machine that’s been tampered with by an unauthorized party but he should bring it in for inspection so that they can discuss his options. That’s actually in linuses video.

If you can drop your personal attacks for a second and stop assuming that I was trying to be "clever", you'll see that I never directly cited the Magnussen-Moss act. I merely stated that the FTC is paving the way for right-to-repair legislations. These legislations stipulate that manufacturers of devices has to allow the end user to tinker and repair their own properties, where the alternative is the current Apple model to lock users into their service providers. That Apple can not sell these parts because of whatever excuse, is a sorry state of the Apple's support system.

This isn't about "armchair ceo point of view" at all. This is about what I as a consumer believe to be proper ethics in business and ecology. You are free to mock my perspective, but your type-casting of my position doesn't elevate you to be right.

Since you cited the Magnussen-Moss Act, you should know that only those things that the user breaks while tinkering with their own properties have warranties that are voided. I conversed with an Apple tech specifically about this regarding my SSD upgrades. So, how many modules are there in the iMac Pro? How many did Linus break? We don't know, and that's not even important in context with this discussion.

I also pointed out that another reviewer (Anand of Anandtech) broke his review Mac Pro and an AASP proactively reached out to him to offer him a new replacement part for a fee. So why the double standard? A customer is a customer and money is money - that's how business is supposed to work. I have not heard any explanations to this discrepancy that paints Apple in any positive light.
[doublepost=1524761418][/doublepost]

Apple offers international warranty and support. I have had many computers purchased from Apple over different parts of the world and was always able to get proper service in the US and Canada. Many here think that Apple not having the parts to repair computers that they sell is a statement of the state of Apple's service.

Well look, I’m very freaking tired of hearing about magnussen-moss in reference to this story. Frankly. If there were a right to repair law that applied to consumer electronics, it wouldn’t have anything to do with this story. Apple still wouldn’t service linuses computer. He’d be able to buy the parts but I doubt that he’d want to do that after seeing how much they cost and, to be honest, I don’t have faith that his team has the competence.

I didn’t cite magnussen-moss, YOU DID. You even posted a direct link to it in your response to me. Here it is right here!

Trying to gaslight like this is really sort of an insult to my intelligence, tbh. Besides, magnussen-moss has absolutely nothing to do with right to repair. So, citing what the FTC says about warranty law or the way companies handle their warranties have no bearing here.

Telling me that you bought Apple products count for nothing. We’re talking about what’s reasonable to expect and your expectations are unreasonable in nature.

It doesn’t matter how many modules there are in the iMac Pro or not. Linus bought a working machine and broke something inside of the machine. Now it’s non-functional. So, Linus broke the warranty and no longer has any entitlements with Apple. His official relationship with Apple is over. Full stop.

Also, you keep saying apple didn’t have the parts, but that’s actually just linuses claim. He didn’t show *anything* in his video to support that whatsoever and actual AASPs have confirmed that they don’t have problems ordering parts or servicing iMac pros.

You bringing up the Mac Pro is irrelivent. A Mac Pro is designed for the end user to open up and modify, the iMac Pro is not. Also, I don’t know if you know this but... review machines aren’t the property of the reviewer. They belong to the company that lent the product. In this case, that would be Apple. That’s why they’d probably replace the part for free. They would be fixing their machine that they lent to a reviewer so he can do his official review. Apple would never lend a review machine to Linus. Linus is basically a nobody, that dumps on Apple products, to an audience that mostly won’t buy Apple products, to them.

The reality is that, had he not broken his warranty and his iMac had been defective instead, he would have a working iMac Pro right now. His claimed issues are a result of his hubris and is not Apples fault or responsibility. End of line.

 

[Shanesan]

The reality is that, had he not broken his warranty and his iMac had been defective instead, he would have a working iMac Pro right now. His claimed issues are a result of his hubris and is not Apples fault or responsibility. End of line.

You read Diglio's post that you posted, right? He said that they should have fixed it, but they probably don't have anyone in-house that's permitted to do the repair.

Also, yes, if he did not break his warranty he would have had a working iMac Pro. However, anyone who has made a valid purchase should be able to purchase the parts needed to make an out-of-warranty repair while the device in question is under its active service timeframe, which is probably until 2025 for the iMac Pro.

 

[Sc0rp]

You read Diglio's post that you posted, right? He said that they should have fixed it, but they probably don't have anyone in-house that's permitted to do the repair.

Also, yes, if he did not break his warranty he would have had a working iMac Pro. However, anyone who has made a valid purchase should be able to purchase the parts needed to make an out-of-warranty repair while the device in question is under its active service timeframe, which is probably until 2025 for the iMac Pro.

Firstly, i did read his post. He didn’t say that Apple should have fixed it. He called into question the claims that Apple didn’t get the parts and explained that they wouldn’t send parts if there’s nobody certified at the store, which is a valid reason for them to not send parts IF Linus isn’t lying through his teeth. He also expressed how hard the thing is to work on and warned that the prices for the parts would be insane.

Secondly, I believe it is and should be apple’s prerogative as to whether they sell parts while a computer is on the market.

It’s not difficult to find parts for out of market Macs that would also be out of warranty. However, the first party sale of new parts for a new machine would make it easier for someone to reverse engineer or bootleg. Then we’ll be confronted with a second-hand market full of essentially counterfeit Macs that are unreliable or unsafe to even use. For instance, Linus wanted to “flip this on craigslist”. Think about how messed up that is.

I would expect to see aftermarket parts for this iMac Pro on third party sites to be available around 2021 (or sooner), not 2025 as you suggest. For instance, I can buy enough parts to build a 2015 iMac or MacBook Pro right now. Nobody’s stopping you from buying iMac pros right now, disassembling them and reselling the parts to know-it-all’s that think they know something about fixing Macs with only a Windows skillset. The result would be the same as if Apple were to sell parts because those parts be expensive.

Anyhow, the moral of the story here is “don’t trash your brand new first gen $5000 workstation”. I have no sympathy or pity for a fool.

If I had thoroughly broken my iPad Pro when it was brand new, it would have cost about the same as buying a new one to fix. The solution here is for Linus to buy a new iMac Pro. Anything else is simply whining.

 

[Wanted797]

When I first watched his video I was on Linus' side, but since seeing about the terms of service and process. He opened and broke the iMac. If you buy a new car and strip down the engine and then put it back together and can't get it working. Guess what...

 

[LordVic]

When I first watched his video I was on Linus' side, but since seeing about the terms of service and process. He opened and broke the iMac. If you buy a new car and strip down the engine and then put it back together and can't get it working. Guess what...

you can still buy replacement parts for that engine and keep trying

 

[Maxx Power]

Well look, I’m very freaking tired of hearing about magnussen-moss in reference to this story. Frankly. If there were a right to repair law that applied to consumer electronics, it wouldn’t have anything to do with this story. Apple still wouldn’t service linuses computer. He’d be able to buy the parts but I doubt that he’d want to do that after seeing how much they cost and, to be honest, I don’t have faith that his team has the competence.

I didn’t cite magnussen-moss, YOU DID. You even posted a direct link to it in your response to me. Here it is right here!

Trying to gaslight like this is really sort of an insult to my intelligence, tbh. Besides, magnussen-moss has absolutely nothing to do with right to repair. So, citing what the FTC says about warranty law or the way companies handle their warranties have no bearing here.

Telling me that you bought Apple products count for nothing. We’re talking about what’s reasonable to expect and your expectations are unreasonable in nature.

It doesn’t matter how many modules there are in the iMac Pro or not. Linus bought a working machine and broke something inside of the machine. Now it’s non-functional. So, Linus broke the warranty and no longer has any entitlements with Apple. His official relationship with Apple is over. Full stop.

Also, you keep saying apple didn’t have the parts, but that’s actually just linuses claim. He didn’t show *anything* in his video to support that whatsoever and actual AASPs have confirmed that they don’t have problems ordering parts or servicing iMac pros.

You bringing up the Mac Pro is irrelivent. A Mac Pro is designed for the end user to open up and modify, the iMac Pro is not. Also, I don’t know if you know this but... review machines aren’t the property of the reviewer. They belong to the company that lent the product. In this case, that would be Apple. That’s why they’d probably replace the part for free. They would be fixing their machine that they lent to a reviewer so he can do his official review. Apple would never lend a review machine to Linus. Linus is basically a nobody, that dumps on Apple products, to an audience that mostly won’t buy Apple products, to them.

The reality is that, had he not broken his warranty and his iMac had been defective instead, he would have a working iMac Pro right now. His claimed issues are a result of his hubris and is not Apples fault or responsibility. End of line.

That quote I took is directly from Wikipedia in regards to FTC's recent actions, which referenced the Magnussen-Moss act. I looked at your own image of my quote - it is clear that I quoted Wikipedia on the FTC in regards to right-to-repair legislations, not on the act itself. That the link is a hyperlink is just a symptom of copy and paste from Wikipedia, which now preserves hyperlink function when embedded into MacRumors. You can find that quote directly from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronics_right_to_repair under the section - "Right to repair movement".

I see where we differ - you seem to believe that Apple's services are an "entitlement" and only under the warranty. That's total bogus to me. Can you imagine if all companies acted this way? What if you needed to service your car and your car was out of warranty? You should not expect to be able to obtain parts? Since when is availability of parts an "entitlement"? I fully believe that there are many implicit obligations to manufacturers to extends parts and services to those beyond warranty periods.

"My expectations are unreasonable" - really? I just expect some level of availability of parts and ease of obtaining service. You don't expect to be given the chance to fix your own properties after warranties? Do you always buy new houses? How about brand new cars every few years? Why do you think that's a reasonable expectation in case of computers? I pointed out that I have previous experience dealing with Apple service, and you brush it aside, because it doesn't support your narrative.

Availability of Linus's evidence is only suspect if this ever became a legal matter. At the moment, I am giving the benefit of the doubt to all parties involved. Has Apple provided a counter to Linus's claims? At the moment, I have not seen it, if it exists. So I am left to assess the situation as per Linus's version of the story. If you have additional facts that somehow I missed on behalf of Apple, then share them.

Your take on the Mac Pro situation is sorely under-informed. The replacement parts were paid for ($400 USD) by Anand, because he broke the machine, I mentioned this a few times in this thread alone. That machine was Anand's own that he purchased, based on the article(s). Many reviewers practice purchasing all review machines, to ensure impartial reviews. They then sell the machines or raffle them in charity events afterwards. In Anand's case, he uses Apple computers as one of his main work machines (then). Anand said: "Thankfully, the folks at the Crabtree Valley Mall Apple Store in Raleigh, NC are AnandTech readers and quickly understood what had happened. They ordered the replacement part and I waited. If you’re curious, it’ll cost a bit under $400 to replace the processor board in an 8-core Mac Pro provided you allow Apple to keep your dead board." So again, how is a Mac Pro motherboard a user-replaceable item that is different from a motherboard in a iMac Pro? The extra letter "i"?

Linus isn't as popular as Anandtech today - that doesn't make him a "nobody". Even if the rest of us "nobodies" encountered the same situation as Linus, I would argue that popularity has nothing to do with Apple's attitude in giving service. Your suggestion that somehow Apple should preferentially treat more popular reviewers is biased. Anandtech also grew up from an obscure, PC-based, HTML review site decades ago to a huge authority today. Certainly Anandtech in 2009 wasn't as popular as it is now, especially with the Mac community. That never stopped Apple's parts and service from flowing to them.

 

[alien3dx]

@Maxx Power

Apple is premium. Not a part of computer produce can be found in the market. They can get away with hardware since they maintain quality of product and whom to official to repair it. Even @Sc0rp said basic is not premium, for me it was premium because nobody can stole the idea of their product ,software.

As i mention before, if system builder or app developer keep been harrased for this. For sure, this is the end of apple product. If no creative worker to use mac, if no developer to create app software.. For some people, imac pro is cheap can get re-investment for few year but some may month.But if other vendor can create faster, then it will be the end of mac.

What the point of i'm using imac ? Free Virus ?Making Creative Video using Final Cut Pro ?

If apple just listen to creative people again, we not the people in starbuck brag their shine apple logo laptop,iwatch,iphone..

 

[Wanted797]

you can still buy replacement parts for that engine and keep trying

What if it’s a brand new just developed engine?

 

[LordVic]

What if it’s a brand new just developed engine?

almost all car manufacturers will have the parts for their engines available for sale either first party direct from your dealer's service department, or to 3rd party repair shops.

in the car world, you don' have this "lock down" where companies try to make sure you can only repair your car at their shops. They do advertise that you should, but overall, Car companies will and do fully allow for the ordering of just about every, and any part in the car for replacement.

 

[Sc0rp]

That quote I took is directly from Wikipedia in regards to FTC's recent actions, which referenced the Magnussen-Moss act. I looked at your own image of my quote - it is clear that I quoted Wikipedia on the FTC in regards to right-to-repair legislations, not on the act itself. That the link is a hyperlink is just a symptom of copy and paste from Wikipedia, which now preserves hyperlink function when embedded into MacRumors. You can find that quote directly from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronics_right_to_repair under the section - "Right to repair movement".

I see where we differ - you seem to believe that Apple's services are an "entitlement" and only under the warranty. That's total bogus to me. Can you imagine if all companies acted this way? What if you needed to service your car and your car was out of warranty? You should not expect to be able to obtain parts? Since when is availability of parts an "entitlement"? I fully believe that there are many implicit obligations to manufacturers to extends parts and services to those beyond warranty periods.

"My expectations are unreasonable" - really? I just expect some level of availability of parts and ease of obtaining service. You don't expect to be given the chance to fix your own properties after warranties? Do you always buy new houses? How about brand new cars every few years? Why do you think that's a reasonable expectation in case of computers? I pointed out that I have previous experience dealing with Apple service, and you brush it aside, because it doesn't support your narrative.

Availability of Linus's evidence is only suspect if this ever became a legal matter. At the moment, I am giving the benefit of the doubt to all parties involved. Has Apple provided a counter to Linus's claims? At the moment, I have not seen it, if it exists. So I am left to assess the situation as per Linus's version of the story. If you have additional facts that somehow I missed on behalf of Apple, then share them.

Your take on the Mac Pro situation is sorely under-informed. The replacement parts were paid for ($400 USD) by Anand, because he broke the machine, I mentioned this a few times in this thread alone. That machine was Anand's own that he purchased, based on the article(s). Many reviewers practice purchasing all review machines, to ensure impartial reviews. They then sell the machines or raffle them in charity events afterwards. In Anand's case, he uses Apple computers as one of his main work machines (then). Anand said: "Thankfully, the folks at the Crabtree Valley Mall Apple Store in Raleigh, NC are AnandTech readers and quickly understood what had happened. They ordered the replacement part and I waited. If you’re curious, it’ll cost a bit under $400 to replace the processor board in an 8-core Mac Pro provided you allow Apple to keep your dead board." So again, how is a Mac Pro motherboard a user-replaceable item that is different from a motherboard in a iMac Pro? The extra letter "i"?

Linus isn't as popular as Anandtech today - that doesn't make him a "nobody". Even if the rest of us "nobodies" encountered the same situation as Linus, I would argue that popularity has nothing to do with Apple's attitude in giving service. Your suggestion that somehow Apple should preferentially treat more popular reviewers is biased. Anandtech also grew up from an obscure, PC-based, HTML review site decades ago to a huge authority today. Certainly Anandtech in 2009 wasn't as popular as it is now, especially with the Mac community. That never stopped Apple's parts and service from flowing to them.

We differ because I believe that the consumers and businesses both have a right to protect their own interests. A consumer exercise their rights by informing themselves on what’s available and buying that with their money and businesses protect their interests by setting their terms informing consumers of their terms beforehand. You seem to believe that businesses have no right to protect their interests, so your expectations are unreasonable. Or, if Linus really feels that he’s been wronged here... He could always sue Apple and be laughed out of the court by the judge.

Anyhow, let me answer your questions

1) All businesses DO behave this way on a case by case basis. For some reason, everyone acts surprised when there’s an Apple logo on it, but put a Microsoft logo on the product and everyone would tell Linus that he was stupid to open and break his $4000 surface studio.

2) if I needed service on a TOTALED car that was out of warranty the manufacturer or dealership wouldn’t service it. If I total something that’s pretty much totally unique to the point of needing special technicians to work on it and special low volume parts, I’d be super out of luck. Have you ever read a terms of service for an autto manufacturer?

3) im not opposed to the user buying the parts but I understand why they are not allowed to because I know apple’s history. Besides, the cost for the parts would easily exceed the cost of buying a new iMac Pro, so grow up and just buy a new iMac Pro.

4) I think it’s unconscionable to expect anything from a company that you no longer have an official relationship with.

5) your experience with Apple service is, in no way, comparable with being a screw-up that broke a $5000 all in one workstation and then expecting service, so it is a moot point.

6) there are NO explicit obligations for apple to service Linuses machine. You’re expecting Apple to LEGALLY obligate themselves to grant warranty to a product that the user thoroughly broke on his own. That’s what you’re not getting. If apple touches the machine that Linus broke, then they are legally on the hook if anything else happens to it in the future. If Linus had showed up with a completely dead iMac Pro due to manufacturer defect, Apple would have simply gave him a new one in nearly 100% of the cases. The solution here, for Linus, is to just buy a new iMac Pro.

7) yes, anything that linus asks for after he violates his warranty, is basically him begging. He’s not entitled to service from app,e. If he wants to be entitled to service, he shouldn’t break the contract. He’s not in a position to expect guarantees. That’s what warranties are for.

On the Mac Pro thing, it would help if you provided a link or screenshot as I have done instead if expecting me to keep up with this crap. A few things.

8) Did anand fry every major component in the Mac Pro?

9) it was a review unit, was it not? If he bought it himself then it really wasn’t.

10) isn’t the Mac Pro designed for the user to open up, unlike the iMac Pro?

If anand bought the machine, don’t call it a review unit. Review units are loaners from a sponsor. They are not the reviewers property.

Linus is still a big nobody to Apple. He spends a lot of his time bashing Apple to an audience that does t like Apple so apple really has no reason to care at all about what he thinks. Oh, Linus doesn’t like Apple now? He didn’t really like Apple before. Meanwhile, Anand is non-biased and gives Apple a fair shake. Apple is more inclined to care about what anand thinks. Being a youtube “tech channel” is basically the tech equivalent to being a “yelp elite”.

The moral of the story is don’t open up a $5000 workstation, break everything inside and then EXPECT service. Do your research before doing something that’s dumb.
[doublepost=1524838135][/doublepost]

almost all car manufacturers will have the parts for their engines available for sale either first party direct from your dealer's service department, or to 3rd party repair shops.

in the car world, you don' have this "lock down" where companies try to make sure you can only repair your car at their shops. They do advertise that you should, but overall, Car companies will and do fully allow for the ordering of just about every, and any part in the car for replacement.

Can you buy an engine from Tesla? Tesla’s a car right?

 

[LordVic]

[doublepost=1524838135][/doublepost]

Can you buy an engine from Tesla? Tesla’s a car right?

Honestly couldn't tell you about Tesla. How they handle things could be interesting. Do they follow the car industry and how they operate, or do they follow tech industry and how they're trying to lock down and operate. I honestly don't know

 

[Sc0rp]

@Maxx Power

Apple is premium. Not a part of computer produce can be found in the market. They can get away with hardware since they maintain quality of product and whom to official to repair it. Even @Sc0rp said basic is not premium, for me it was premium because nobody can stole the idea of their product ,software.

As i mention before, if system builder or app developer keep been harrased for this. For sure, this is the end of apple product. If no creative worker to use mac, if no developer to create app software.. For some people, imac pro is cheap can get re-investment for few year but some may month.But if other vendor can create faster, then it will be the end of mac.

What the point of i'm using imac ? Free Virus ?Making Creative Video using Final Cut Pro ?

If apple just listen to creative people again, we not the people in starbuck brag their shine apple logo laptop,iwatch,iphone..

I don’t recall ever saying that the iMac Pro is basic. For sure, Apple products are generally premium devices. There are some that are entry level which I would consider as being basic. But that basically like calling an entry level mercedes a basic car.

I strongly disagree that making something faster is the end of Macs. Pc’s have been generally faster and less expensive for ages yet Mac isn’t gone.

As for listening to creative people. I’m a creative person and I don’t really see a problem with apple’s products from a creative standpoint. The point of using a Mac, for me, is the intuitive way that their products operate, less down time, less worrying about my computer, less maintenence, less headaches and an operating system that gives me nearly everything I need out of the box and has been for a very long time. That’s why.
[doublepost=1524838905][/doublepost]

Honestly couldn't tell you about Tesla. How they handle things could be interesting. Do they follow the car industry and how they operate, or do they follow tech industry and how they're trying to lock down and operate. I honestly don't know

One thing’s for sure about Tesla. You can’t take one down to your local fix-it shop and get it serviced. They would not know what to do with it beyond changing the tires or brakes.

Edit: Here’s a thread on the subject

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/can-custom-car-builders-buy-parts-from-tesla.34970/

Edit: newer thread.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/building-a-lotus-evora-with-a-tesla-electric-motor.90525/

Looking it up, You can buy engines on eBay That claim to be Tesla engines. Anyhow, further research says that Tesla covers their engines for eight years and unlimited miles. So, if you owned a Tesla automobile and don’t brat]k your warranty, you’ll likely never really need to replace your engine until the eight years elapse. I suspect that you’ll be SOL if you do what Linus did to his iMac Pro, to a Tesla.

I think that everyone is missing is that linuses iMac Pro did not break through normal use. If he had used it as it is normally designed then he’d be fine.

 

[s15119]

LoL, are you really trying to act smart?

Because that is the answer he got from the Apple Store. That they have to change 3 parts but HQ won't send them.

Were you there? The question is "HOW DO YOU KNOW?" Restating your claim does not answer the question.

The answer is. No. You don't know.

Have a wonderful day.

 

[LordVic]

I think that everyone is missing is that linuses iMac Pro did not break through normal use. If he had used it as it is normally designed then he’d be fine.

yes, but nobody is claiming that it should be warranteed work.

it shouldn't. he violated his warranty and Apple is under no obligation to perform a warranted repair.

the problem is, how hard of a time he is having finding either official parts, or even third party knock off parts to try and repair it himself. All due to Apple's very limited and controlling methods.

if someone wants to be an AASP. they can only really repair / sell official Apple parts. If Apple themselves refuse to provide those parts than there's no way for a user to do their own repairs at all.

This is really the crux of the issue. Should Apple (and other manufacturers) have the right to deny and refuse to sell parts so others can repair their own stuff (especially out of warranty stuff).

this is what the "right to repair" discussion and legislation debates about. if Apple does have the parts and CAN sell them, but are choosing not to for their own corporate reasons, is that putting undue stress / hardship on the consumer? The idea that Corporations should be treated equally to actual people is not a universally agreed upon notion. The question really that is being raised here, is should the corporations have to be held to certain consumer standards, or should they be allowed to freely pick and choose how they support the consumer.

 

[Shanesterz]

I don't get it. You buy a new Samsung all-in-one and you break it by spilling coffee all over your lap then punching it in the face out of frustration. You won't get that fixed, because there is no such thing as a Samsung store. All you people hating on apple for not fixing something that this guy broke himself out of negligence, what is the alternative company that would fix something like this for this reason without buying some extended warranty? Some credit cards offer an "insurance" for a short time after a purchase, but other than that you're SOL no matter what brand it is. Plus, this guy is a tech buff. I'm sure he'll get the parts in a few months and get it fixed. Or he'll use the revenue from his over 1 million views on it. GG linus.

 

[Maxx Power]

We differ because I believe that the consumers and businesses both have a right to protect their own interests. A consumer exercise their rights by informing themselves on what’s available and buying that with their money and businesses protect their interests by setting their terms informing consumers of their terms beforehand. You seem to believe that businesses have no right to protect their interests, so your expectations are unreasonable. Or, if Linus really feels that he’s been wronged here... He could always sue Apple and be laughed out of the court by the judge.

Anyhow, let me answer your questions

1) All businesses DO behave this way on a case by case basis. For some reason, everyone acts surprised when there’s an Apple logo on it, but put a Microsoft logo on the product and everyone would tell Linus that he was stupid to open and break his $4000 surface studio.

2) if I needed service on a TOTALED car that was out of warranty the manufacturer or dealership wouldn’t service it. If I total something that’s pretty much totally unique to the point of needing special technicians to work on it and special low volume parts, I’d be super out of luck. Have you ever read a terms of service for an autto manufacturer?

3) im not opposed to the user buying the parts but I understand why they are not allowed to because I know apple’s history. Besides, the cost for the parts would easily exceed the cost of buying a new iMac Pro, so grow up and just buy a new iMac Pro.

4) I think it’s unconscionable to expect anything from a company that you no longer have an official relationship with.

5) your experience with Apple service is, in no way, comparable with being a screw-up that broke a $5000 all in one workstation and then expecting service, so it is a moot point.

6) there are NO explicit obligations for apple to service Linuses machine. You’re expecting Apple to LEGALLY obligate themselves to grant warranty to a product that the user thoroughly broke on his own. That’s what you’re not getting. If apple touches the machine that Linus broke, then they are legally on the hook if anything else happens to it in the future. If Linus had showed up with a completely dead iMac Pro due to manufacturer defect, Apple would have simply gave him a new one in nearly 100% of the cases. The solution here, for Linus, is to just buy a new iMac Pro.

7) yes, anything that linus asks for after he violates his warranty, is basically him begging. He’s not entitled to service from app,e. If he wants to be entitled to service, he shouldn’t break the contract. He’s not in a position to expect guarantees. That’s what warranties are for.

On the Mac Pro thing, it would help if you provided a link or screenshot as I have done instead if expecting me to keep up with this crap. A few things.

8) Did anand fry every major component in the Mac Pro?

9) it was a review unit, was it not? If he bought it himself then it really wasn’t.

10) isn’t the Mac Pro designed for the user to open up, unlike the iMac Pro?

If anand bought the machine, don’t call it a review unit. Review units are loaners from a sponsor. They are not the reviewers property.

Linus is still a big nobody to Apple. He spends a lot of his time bashing Apple to an audience that does t like Apple so apple really has no reason to care at all about what he thinks. Oh, Linus doesn’t like Apple now? He didn’t really like Apple before. Meanwhile, Anand is non-biased and gives Apple a fair shake. Apple is more inclined to care about what anand thinks. Being a youtube “tech channel” is basically the tech equivalent to being a “yelp elite”.

The moral of the story is don’t open up a $5000 workstation, break everything inside and then EXPECT service. Do your research before doing something that’s dumb.
[doublepost=1524838135][/doublepost]

Can you buy an engine from Tesla? Tesla’s a car right?

"Unrealistic expectations" - again, subjective. Businesses have always had far more power in their hands to control the extent of provisions of service and products. That Apple's terms of service - is drawn up entirely by Apple but is expected to be binding (although not strictly legally, as per precedents) between two party members. Tell me in a fundamentally unequal situation like this, how does your average consumer expect recourse should the bigger party - the business, interprets and constructs a position that is disadvantageous to the consumer? Linus of course can sue, but based on Apple's highly publicized position, as a leader not only in the industry, but also in business ethics (privacy, child labor laws, working conditions, conflict minerals, renewable energy and recycling), we as Apple users didn't just buy the products based on specifications alone. We bought the image of Apple that it has the best intentions for the users, workers, itself and the environment, as well as the society. That's why we expect Apple to be held to a higher standard than say, your example of Microsoft. So my expectation of Apple in this case, is totally to do what it has done in the past, and what is consistent with its image of eco-friendly and consumer-friendly nature - provide service or parts at a reasonable cost. If this was HP for example, I wouldn't even expect their printers to work with their own cartridges.

You feel the "car" is totaled. Even per your definition - totaled cars are often repaired by insurance companies and re-sold as such. What's your counter argument to this? Obviously parts are available. And no, I don't feel that the iMac Pro is totaled as per your definition. That's an arbitrary line drawn that you are spilling precious keystrokes to defend. Like all things, this isn't black and white. There is no absolute line in my mind. And again, I wasn't aware that there was a rigorous definition of a "review unit" in that it must be supplied. In my mind, it only refers to the unit under review. No part of where Anand sourced his review unit should have impacted the outcome.

I appreciate the request you have made for a link to Anandtech's review of the Mac Pro, see https://www.anandtech.com/show/2800/upgrading-and-analyzing-apple-s-nehalem-mac-pro/11.

You'll see that Anand's mistake could have people suspect that he fried quite a few things, including the CPU(s), motherboard, PSU. And no, the motherboard in a Mac Pro was not intended to be user-serviceable, same as most of the iMac Pro. Regardless, there is a precedent here for the exact same situation that Linus is in. I don't follow Linus, but he did have nice things to say about the iMac Pro in his original review before disassembly. Anandtech used to be a PC-only review site as well, but they branched out to Macs, iOS, Android, networking, etc... If you regularly read Anandtech (or other sites), you'll see that hostility toward Apple products is rampant EVERYWHERE, not just on Linus's website and his youtube channel. That he is a nobody to Apple is what is particularly upsetting for me - that we as consumers are just nobodies to Apple and can be treated the same way as him.

As for Tesla parts - I don't know. When I used to have a VW, I could very well walk into a dealership at the service counter and ask to buy a crate engine or transmission. That was super easy, as long as I paid, regardless of whether or not I had a VW.

 

[Sc0rp]

yes, but nobody is claiming that it should be warranteed work.

it shouldn't. he violated his warranty and Apple is under no obligation to perform a warranted repair.

the problem is, how hard of a time he is having finding either official parts, or even third party knock off parts to try and repair it himself. All due to Apple's very limited and controlling methods.

if someone wants to be an AASP. they can only really repair / sell official Apple parts. If Apple themselves refuse to provide those parts than there's no way for a user to do their own repairs at all.

This is really the crux of the issue. Should Apple (and other manufacturers) have the right to deny and refuse to sell parts so others can repair their own stuff (especially out of warranty stuff).

this is what the "right to repair" discussion and legislation debates about. if Apple does have the parts and CAN sell them, but are choosing not to for their own corporate reasons, is that putting undue stress / hardship on the consumer? The idea that Corporations should be treated equally to actual people is not a universally agreed upon notion. The question really that is being raised here, is should the corporations have to be held to certain consumer standards, or should they be allowed to freely pick and choose how they support the consumer.

If you’re aware it’s not warranty work then why are you guys expecting Apple to do anything for Linus? Apple really doesn’t owe Linus anything here.

You can’t buy official parts for a Microsoft surface. If you have a Microsoft surface and break it, you’ll have to pay to replace it. Microsoft will not repair a surface. It’s apparently not even made to be easily fixable according to Microsoft themselves. You can try taking it to a third party but they say in their own terms that would be dumb, even outside of warranty.

You can’t buy parts for a Tesla as far as I can tell. Even if you were able to, you wouldn’t know what to do with them and would be likely to set your car on fire because it’s a different beast from whatever you’re used to. If you break a Tesla, it would be a completely moot point as to whether or not you can buy the parts at that point.

Also, what you guys are missing is that selling Linus parts won’t fix his problem because linus doesnt know what he’s doing and the parts would be too expensive. He could easily spend $5000 for a new set of parts and turn around and botch that too because these are proprietary parts and Linus has zero experience servicing Macs. Pointless argument.

"Unrealistic expectations" - again, subjective. Businesses have always had far more power in their hands to control the extent of provisions of service and products. That Apple's terms of service - is drawn up entirely by Apple but is expected to be binding (although not strictly legally, as per precedents) between two party members. Tell me in a fundamentally unequal situation like this, how does your average consumer expect recourse should the bigger party - the business, interprets and constructs a position that is disadvantageous to the consumer? Linus of course can sue, but based on Apple's highly publicized position, as a leader not only in the industry, but also in business ethics (privacy, child labor laws, working conditions, conflict minerals, renewable energy and recycling), we as Apple users didn't just buy the products based on specifications alone. We bought the image of Apple that it has the best intentions for the users, workers, itself and the environment, as well as the society. That's why we expect Apple to be held to a higher standard than say, your example of Microsoft. So my expectation of Apple in this case, is totally to do what it has done in the past, and what is consistent with its image of eco-friendly and consumer-friendly nature - provide service or parts at a reasonable cost. If this was HP for example, I wouldn't even expect their printers to work with their own cartridges.

You feel the "car" is totaled. Even per your definition - totaled cars are often repaired by insurance companies and re-sold as such. What's your counter argument to this? Obviously parts are available. And no, I don't feel that the iMac Pro is totaled as per your definition. That's an arbitrary line drawn that you are spilling precious keystrokes to defend. Like all things, this isn't black and white. There is no absolute line in my mind. And again, I wasn't aware that there was a rigorous definition of a "review unit" in that it must be supplied. In my mind, it only refers to the unit under review. No part of where Anand sourced his review unit should have impacted the outcome.

I appreciate the request you have made for a link to Anandtech's review of the Mac Pro, see https://www.anandtech.com/show/2800/upgrading-and-analyzing-apple-s-nehalem-mac-pro/11.

You'll see that Anand's mistake could have people suspect that he fried quite a few things, including the CPU(s), motherboard, PSU. And no, the motherboard in a Mac Pro was not intended to be user-serviceable, same as most of the iMac Pro. Regardless, there is a precedent here for the exact same situation that Linus is in. I don't follow Linus, but he did have nice things to say about the iMac Pro in his original review before disassembly. Anandtech used to be a PC-only review site as well, but they branched out to Macs, iOS, Android, networking, etc... If you regularly read Anandtech (or other sites), you'll see that hostility toward Apple products is rampant EVERYWHERE, not just on Linus's website and his youtube channel. That he is a nobody to Apple is what is particularly upsetting for me - that we as consumers are just nobodies to Apple and can be treated the same way as him.

As for Tesla parts - I don't know. When I used to have a VW, I could very well walk into a dealership at the service counter and ask to buy a crate engine or transmission. That was super easy, as long as I paid, regardless of whether or not I had a VW.

1) Totaled cars are not repaired and resold by insurance companies. They go to the scrapyard. A car is considered totaled when it’ll cost MORE than the value of the car to fix it. Here:

http://blog.esurance.com/what-happens-to-totaled-cars/
https://www.autotrainingcentre.com/blog/totaled-car/
https://www.erieinsurance.com/blog/totaled-car

2) A VW is one of the best selling, most highly distributed car of all time. A Tesla is a low-volume electric automobile filled to the brim with proprietary parts that almost nobody knows how to service. Are you joking?

3) in the anandtech article that you provided, anand didn’t say that he paid for the repair himself. He said a similar repair would cost about $400. That’s not a statment that he paid or he repair or part. Do you read your own sources?

4) linus could sue, but he’d lose because he has no standing. Any judge would take one look at this case and dismiss it on the grounds that Linus broke the computer and Apple isn’t legally obligated to service his machine after that. Oh, and Apple could slap him with a countersuit for possible slander. It would be entertaining to see linus try to sue.

5) anand says he only “fried” the processor board. That’s one part. I don’t see him claiming that he totaled the whole Mac Pro. There’s no mention of him messing up the PSU or messing up the cpus themselves. Why you always lying?

6) Linus broke the logicboard, the PSU and the display. That’s about 90% of the computer. Anand messed up the modular, user-accessible, processor board. That’s like 10-20% of the Mac Pro.

7) anandtech is a real tech site, Linus is not. Anandtech didn’t make a bunch of videos or articles snarking at Apple and it’s products, linus has. Anandtech is serious, knowledgeable and skilled. Linus caters to the 14 year old demographic.

8) who cares about where Apple hate is rampant? I don’t see anand himself feeding into that or catering to it. I see Linus absolutely catering to Apple hate. There’s the difference.

9) apple’s terms of service are drawn up by Apple lawyers to be in compliance with the law. You’re talking about precedents, but there aren’t any that say that Apple has to service linuses computer or that Apple owes Linus anything after he broke his computer. I’d ask you to provide proof of your claim but you’ve demonstrated, here, that you don’t read anything that you cite. So, it’ll just be a further waste of time.