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PowerMacs, iMacs and eMacs

oh come on..

the fujitsus or the toshibas are nice.. but look at the price of toshiba.. thats just a joke..

AND the fujitsu or toshiba notebooks only have intel830 or s3 graphics and work with p3s..

not to mention that windows is not my 'favortie' os =)
 
Apple is far from perfect, but any PC company is miles and miles away from where Apple stands. I really like the AlBook12", because I like sleek, small, and powerful laptops. I like the iBook, but this is smaller, more powerful, and a hundred times sleek-er.

There are a couple things I wanted to mention about this whole thing, though. First, I know some people are saying that this isn't a sub-notebook. It is. It's less than an inch and a half thick, with a powerful processor, a good battery, and it weighs less than the lightest iBook.

Second, Apple really is competitive in the portable market. That's why they have over 10% higher laptop sales than the PC industry.

And Apple actually found a way to price this thing right. $1800 is an amazingly good price, considering Apple's history with expensive computers.
Also, if you are a student, parent of a student, or teacher at any one of the schools in Apple's education program, you can get the AlBook for only $1699. A good deal...
 
Originally posted by wallinbl

Don't be fooled - Apple is not the only company that does 54Mbps 802.11g. On Monday, I will receive shipment of my 802.11g cards and access point at work. A PC doesn't have to be "ready" for it. Any PCMCIA card will work in it.

Don't be confused - I'm not trying to be a Mac basher. If I had the money, I'd buy one. I'm just trying to clarify this comparison.
Click to expand...

Also don't be fooled by thinking you can get a 802.11g card and see anything but a very small improvement in bandwidth. This is because PCMCIA slots are too slow to carry anything much faster then 802.11b. That is why Apple has made a new port for the 802.11g cards that in all reality is nearly a mini PCI slot. This way it can carry enough data to see a real improvement over 802.11b.
 
Re: Re: More overclocking

Originally posted by arn


But they are rated by Motorola to run at 1.25ghz... not Apple.

arn
Click to expand...

Right. But when Moto could not deliver on the recent generation of orders Apple made they simply "changed the spec sheet" on the existing fab to hold Apple over. I get the distinct impression they do not feel "held over", but abused.

Rocketman
 
Re: Re: Re: More overclocking

Originally posted by Rocketman


Right. But when Moto could not deliver on the recent generation of orders Apple made they simply "changed the spec sheet" on the existing fab to hold Apple over. I get the distinct impression they do not feel "held over", but abused.

Rocketman
Click to expand...

Huh? You don't just change the spec sheets. You may make a revision or in this case improve your fabrication so that you can get better higher quality yields. Specs are written for chips based on a certain amount of assumption of yields and fabrication quality. By the time they actually get to production things could change allowing higher or lower speed results.
 
Originally posted by Machead III
Doesanyone have a good idea whenn there will be an iMac upgrade? Please?
Click to expand...

Try looking through the forums. This has been discussed not only
in this thread, but in other threads too, a million times.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: More overclocking

Originally posted by MacBandit


Huh? You don't just change the spec sheets. You may make a revision or in this case improve your fabrication so that you can get better higher quality yields. Specs are written for chips based on a certain amount of assumption of yields and fabrication quality. By the time they actually get to production things could change allowing higher or lower speed results.
Click to expand...

The cool thing about this arguement is yields as experienced can be observed and measured by sales of CPU's by processor speed. Obviously both Mot and App have incentive to deliver as many premium priced fast processors as possible.

I have not seen figures for sheer numbers of processors delivered by speed lately but it would be an interesting factoid on a year by year basis.

Rocketman
 
Repeat after me: A computer is not obsolete as long as it does the tasks you need it to do.

Now say this over and and over until your buyers' guilt goes away. ;-)


Originally posted by AssassinOfGates
New powermacs? its still hard for me to believe that after buying my dual 867 3 days after the release, and paying $1785 for it being a student, it already is going to be obsolete in a few weeks / months. If only they had the lifespan of a car....
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by MacBandit


Also don't be fooled by thinking you can get a 802.11g card and see anything but a very small improvement in bandwidth. This is because PCMCIA slots are too slow to carry anything much faster then 802.11b. That is why Apple has made a new port for the 802.11g cards that in all reality is nearly a mini PCI slot. This way it can carry enough data to see a real improvement over 802.11b.
Click to expand...

Wrong on two accounts.

1. PCMCIA is a 16 bit bus running at 10 MHz. So, it's capable of 16 * 10= 160 Mb/s, or 20 MB/s. This is well within 54 Mb/s.

2. You will never see 802.11g working at 54 Mb. Just as 802.11b only gets about 1/3 to 1/2 of the 11Mb it's rated at, the same can be expected with 802.11g, which equates to about 25 Mb/s. This too is well within 16bit PCMCIA spec, and is well under a Cardbus spec of 133 MB/s (Cardbus is essentially the same as PCI and miniPCI).

A good read
 
Originally posted by ffakr

The spec is designed to scale. it's likely that desktop machines would not support a very large number of channels as I'm sure cost would be prohibitive (even though the spec is touted as cheaper than PCI). Be careful with your letters also... 8Gb is Giga-Bits, not Giga-Bytes... that would be GB. AGP 8x is much faster than 8Gb/sec.
Click to expand...

My typos and bad math. 4 GBps then (250 MBps * 16). Also note, that AGP is only a 32 Bit bus and therefore only gives you 2.1 GBps.

AGP not only scaled past PCI, it also brought features that were uniquely designed for video.
Click to expand...
A lot of which have been migrated to PCI Express, which allows for multiple independent simultaneous point to point transfers (IE, your Hard Disk can dump data out through your network card while the video card is having a chat with the CPU and neither steps on each others toes)

Unlike AGP, it can't (as far as I can tell) be shipped alongside PCI in a system. At the very least this would defeat the cost advantage.
PCI Express not only requires vendors to design entirely new peripherals, it also requires end users to abandon existing hardware.
Click to expand...

Nope. As someone else pointed out it's reverse compatible and PCI slots can co-exist so you can throw some of those in as well if you want.

As for "redesigning the PC", you don't know how potentially true that is. The PCI-Express spec allows for the connection of external devices...

Build the video card into your monitor and let it direct drive if you want...

I expect that there will be PCI Express Server products in 2004. I figure the technology will filter down into the personal computer market in late 2004 to early 2005.
Click to expand...

Intel's a bit more optimistic:

http://www.intel.com/technology/agp/agp_3_spec.htm

"AGP 8x technology is intended to be the last parallel interface step that meets the industry's requirements before transitioning to a PCI Express-based serial graphics solution in 2004. The PCI Express architecture is a high-speed, general-purpose, serial I/O interconnect that provides a unifying standard, consolidating a number of I/O interconnects within a platform."

Doesn't sound like AGP's primary motivator plans to move forward with the tech, no?
 
Re: PowerMacs, iMacs and eMacs

Originally posted by Macrumors

iMac and eMac upgrades are on the way... as previously rumored... though no confirmation on upcoming processor speeds... though unconfirmed rumors seem to be guessing at 1GHz speeds.

PowerMacs were last updated on August 13th, 2002. That upgrade brough us Dual 1.25GHz processors. Another upgrade is expected, and should top out at Dual 1.43 GHz.
Click to expand...

well, then bring it on ;)

one day this year, apple inc will most likely have no pro machine under 1 ghz and the only sub-1ghz consumer offering will be the g3 ibook and the crt imac (assuming apple still keeps that model)
 
Re: Re: PowerMacs, iMacs and eMacs

Originally posted by jefhatfield


one day this year, apple inc will most likely have no pro machine under 1 ghz and the only sub-1ghz consumer offering will be the g3 ibook and the crt imac (assuming apple still keeps that model)
Click to expand...

I think we'll see even the iBook easily over 1 ghz in a year, due to previous rumours posted here regarding IBM cranking out fast (IRRC 1 ghz+) G3's as of late. The future of the CRT iMac is a good question, though.
 
Re: PowerMacs, iMacs and eMacs

Originally posted by Macrumors
PowerMacs were last updated on August 13th, 2002. That upgrade brough us Dual 1.25GHz processors. Another upgrade is expected, and should top out at Dual 1.43 GHz.
Click to expand...

So, do you all think that Apple will re-design the PowerMac, anytime soon? I was just wondering.
 
I agree that we might see an upgrade to the pMacs and iMacs by February. My questions are...

1) What will happen to the current price sturctures of the p&iMacs? They can't drop the DP 867 too much lower and the DP 1g wouldn't fall enough to replace the 867. (My Thoughts: I'm guessing a $200-$500 price drop depending with the 867 possibily being cancled or replacing the QS in the Apple education store.)

2) What machines will get the new hardware? ie Bluetooth, FW2? (My thoughts: ALL powermacs will get the new technology, I think that ONLY the high end iMacs will get it and NONE of the eMacs. I think, of course, AP Extreme will be standard on all new computers)

Thoughts?
 
Re: Re: PowerMacs, iMacs and eMacs

Originally posted by MacFan25


So, do you all think that Apple will re-design the PowerMac, anytime soon? I was just wondering.
Click to expand...

IMHO, I don't think they'll redesign anything if they REALLY are considering IBM. I could see them (SJ) unveiling a redesigned, inside and out, Powermac at some future Macworld. It would be a great way to get some people over the scare of a new processor. (You know those "I'm not going to by a RevA until the work the bugs out of it" people?)
 
Small changes coming soon

Originally posted by pgwalsh
One great thing about macs is they hold their value quite well. I have a G3 400 that is 5 years old, but I can't find one for under $400.00 on the web. You don't see any PC's holding their value like that.

I would like to see the next PowerMacs include:
  • Full DDR Support w/200Mhz fsb
  • 8x AGP or AGP Pro Slot with ATI 9700 Pro
  • ATA 133 & Serial ATA connectors
  • Built in Bluetooth
  • Wireless Mouse and Keyboard
  • 5.1 Surround Sound
  • Two 80 GB HD standard.
  • Two Optical Drives Standard One SD
  • Firewire 800 - Expected
  • 17" monitor included
  • For Less than 3K - unexpected.
I'm sure I can think of other things, but this is a good start.
Click to expand...

The fact that Blue & White G3's are still commanding $400 is proof that Mac users all over the world have more money than brains. There is no reason for Macs to depreciate so much slower than PCs. Heck you can put a faster G4 upgrade into a PowerMac 8500 than you can into a B&W. Anyone think the 8500 should still be worth $400?

Your PowerMac wish list is fine as a wish list, but it's not realistic. The 7455 and 7457 (when it appears) do not support double pumping the bus so Apple is stuck with SDR performance until the PPC 970. For Apple, DDR is just a marketing gimic at this point.

FireWire 800 will be there, as will Bluetooth and AirPort Extreme. Don't hold your breath waiting for things the PC guys have had for years like 5.1 sound or ATA133. Likewise don't expect to see much in the way of price cuts. Steve Jobs lives in a universe where PCs don't compete with Macs.

I don't see the point in shipping dual HDs or dual optical drives. People who want those things can add them for less than Apple charges. My wish has always been for Apple to ship inexpensive bare-bones towers. Then I could buy my own RAM, HD, optical drive, etc. and save a ton of money. Of course that's never going to happen.

Why do people want wireless keyboards and mice? Do you all own stock in Duracell, Eveready and Ray-o-vac?

I fully expect new iMacs and eMacs before the end of this month and new PowerMacs shortly thereafter. We'll see modest speed improvements and, as promised to both education and Quark customers, some of the old models will remain on the price list for OS 9 boot compatibility. Specifically there will be at least one eMac and one iBook based on the old motherboards for education customers and the current 1.25GHz G4 will be available until June. What happens when Quark is once again late shipping XPress 6.0 is anyone's guess :rolleyes:
 
Dual 867

I am also 16 and worked my ass off for a new Dual 867 (Though I like my job,work at the local ISP :) ) . While there always is that sorta dissapointed feeling of not owning the "latest-and-greates" Im not to upset. I knew that they most likely would be upgraded this January,even so,I bought mine only 4 weeks ago.

I just couldnt wait...my old machine was a iMacDV 400 and it was getting very old running 9.2 and trying to use Dreamweaver and game effectively. I am extremely happy with my new machine,and all the reviews saying it was the best bang for the buck Mac were right IMHO. Also,I doubt the low end PM that I could afford will be much faster than an 867 anyway. Prolly will be a 1ghz or something along those lines,which isnt a whole lot faster than 867 anyway.

Anyhoo,as long as your Mac can do what you want,then its not obsolete. My iMac WAS obsolete for my use,but its still a perfectly good Sims and general use computer for my sisters.
 
Re: Small changes coming soon

Originally posted by Bregalad


The 7455 and 7457 (when it appears) do not support double pumping the bus so Apple is stuck with SDR performance until the PPC 970.
Click to expand...

Is this really the case?
I thought that maybe with a new revision of the processor (7457) Apple would want to solve this problem.
Are you sure that the 7457 will still be at a disadvantage with DDR the way the current processors are now?
 
Originally posted by Centris 650
I agree that we might see an upgrade to the pMacs and iMacs by February. My questions are...


2) What machines will get the new hardware? ie Bluetooth, FW2? (My thoughts: ALL powermacs will get the new technology, I think that ONLY the high end iMacs will get it and NONE of the eMacs. I think, of course, AP Extreme will be standard on all new computers)

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I think the eMacs will get the new tech as well as the iMac. If you look at the hardware that both systems come with, the eMac is actually much better for the price you pay when compared to the iMac. You can get a 17" screen 800 Mhz eMac with a Superdrive for $1499, while a comparable iMac will cost you $1699. So if the iMacs get this new technology, surely the better equipped eMac will get it as well. Isn't that the purpose of having the eMac: a trade between the esthetics of an iMac for a performance improvement? Sure, it may not look better than an iMac, but its definitely better when it comes to the technology inside (except the screen, which is what you're giving up for a more esthetically pleasing iMac).
 
Re: Small changes coming soon

Originally posted by Bregalad


The fact that Blue & White G3's are still commanding $400 is proof that Mac users all over the world have more money than brains. There is no reason for Macs to depreciate so much slower than PCs. Heck you can put a faster G4 upgrade into a PowerMac 8500 than you can into a B&W. Anyone think the 8500 should still be worth $400?
Click to expand...

Okay let me think about this say I have an 8500. And I want to build it to compete with a B/W G3400.

First off lets raise the base price of the G3400 to $700 this will get you an upgrade to a G4550. Okay B/W is now $700.

8500
G4 450 or 700 $300
USB and firewire for about $120
IDE controller $100
Hard drive $75
Graphics card $120
total $715.

Oh wait the 8500 still won't compete with the B/W after these upgrades for one simple reason it has a 50MHz system bus and slow RAM. B/W has a 100MHz bus and PC100 ram.

Guess the B/W is a better deal. Besides the fact that it has a much better form factor for upgrading and all the hardware is integrated in the system and will not cause glitches and hangs like the aftermarket cards will in the old system. Also you don't need a hack to get OSX running. The list goes on and on.
 
Originally posted by locovaca


Wrong on two accounts.

1. PCMCIA is a 16 bit bus running at 10 MHz. So, it's capable of 16 * 10= 160 Mb/s, or 20 MB/s. This is well within 54 Mb/s.

2. You will never see 802.11g working at 54 Mb. Just as 802.11b only gets about 1/3 to 1/2 of the 11Mb it's rated at, the same can be expected with 802.11g, which equates to about 25 Mb/s. This too is well within 16bit PCMCIA spec, and is well under a Cardbus spec of 133 MB/s (Cardbus is essentially the same as PCI and miniPCI).

A good read
Click to expand...

I agree with you by the specs and I am not trying to flame you butt as I have been told the PCMCIA bus is capable of a max throuput in the real world in/out of 2-3MB/s. This is very close to the real world throuput of the 802.11g standard. It could be that the tests of the 802.11g cards have been tested using the PCMCIA bus and therefore is being limited to that number.

All I know is that Apple went with there own interface which is very similar to a compact PCI slot because of the limitations of PCMCIA. There slot is supposed to be much faster in real world throuput. I don't have any numbers for you and we won't be able to test this theory until someone receives a new powerbook and tests it using a Airport Extreme station. It will be interesting to see how the numbers come out as compared to the pcmcia 802.11g cards.

Lastly who is using card bus? It's not in use yet is it? Maybe this is what the slot is that Apple is using. I do know of card bus and know that it has a much higher throuput then PCMCIA and you are correct is basically a mini-PCI slot.
 
Intentionally holding back the speed of machines is only re-enforcing the belief thay Macs are slow. I think there are an awful lot of people who would buy a 1ghz 12" PB. Why is this machine slower than either the 15 or 17" version. Doesn't Apple understand that people will buy 12" machines not because they are cheaper, but because they are smaller, they still want the performance, particulally those with SuperDrives.
 
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