PSA: Apple Mail Bugs Can Lead to Data Loss in macOS Catalina

[ConfluxNZ]

When did Apple software releases become so buggy? I’ve had major issues with random freezes and restarts on my iPhone 8+ since installing iOS 13, and had similar bugs with iPadOS on the iPad Pro gen 2. In light of that, plus everything I’ve been reading about how much of a train wreck Catalina is, I’m not even going anywhere near it for another 4-6 months.

 

[Macula]

As an engineer I was trained to prioritize responsibility and reliability. I suppose I’m out of fashion.

 

[dracobdn]

Catalina is in a weird state for me.

It stopped the flickering of my MacBook Pro on an external display (colour depth changes) but Mail activates itself from time to time forcing me out of the current app I'm using (or out of a yotube video).

The Mail app on iOS 13 is problematic too. Not only showing you: "Hey, I have new emails for you" (and then taking up to 20 seconds to actually show these emails) but also a dark mode I dislike.
Have you tried Microsofts' Outlook app in dark mode? That's how a dark mode should look like!

I don't want to be biased: Microsoft is having a lot of issues with Windows 10 too - Catalina for now feels like: 60% of my apps aren't working anymore (Games most likely) for features I don't need or are coming "This spring"

 

[2013.1]

Now I’m glad to have abandoned Apple Mail already. (ios and macos)
What it did to fonts and attachments was a nightmare.

 

[thecastle]

No issues here at all with my me.com mail. Seems to be affecting 3rd party users, unacceptable.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

So much facepalm Catalina. No wonder you are a tiny island nobody wants to live on.

 

[mrkite77]

[automerge]1570889593[/automerge]
I haven't used a Windows based operating system in many years but im curious. Does Microsoft have this many issued when a new OS or even an upgraded build is released??? I'm hesitant to do an upgrade on any Apple device 2 year or older.

Yes and no. Microsoft has definitely had some problems, but they're almost exclusively constrained to the Windows Insider program... which you can think of as Microsoft's public beta program.

The key is that Microsoft beta tests for an *extremely* long time. I won't get into how there are different "rings" of betas running simultaneously or anything, I'll just focus on newest release.

On Feb 14, 2019, Microsoft released a beta version of Windows called 20H1. If you've heard about the new Terminal and how Windows will now include a Linux kernel as part of WSL2, that's all part of the 20H1 release. It is due to be released to the public in May 2020.

So far, Microsoft has put out 33 betas of 20H1.. and by the time it finally gets released, it will have been in *public* beta testing for 15 months.

 

[Peter Resele]

Have you waited for one or two days after the upgrade? Have you tried re-indexing with Spotlight?
I had problems with my 60.000 items mailbox almost during every MacOS upgrade before; and the symptom was missing emails. In the end, I suspected it has to do with Spotlight: The list of mails in mail is created using a Spotlight query, and upgrading mail.app leads to re-indexing all mails in Spotlight - which takes time (and there is *no kind if indication* from MacOS which is really a pain, and, yes, severe oversight on the side of Apple). During that indexing, a lot of mails will simply be missing.
In particular tough cases I used the „Restore Mailbox“ function in mail.app (it copies the mails from the server again, which takes time) and launched re-indexing with Spotlight (https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/rebuild-spotlight-search-index-on-mac/) and that helped (and you can see whether it is finished by looking into Activity Monitor).
Can‘t say yet anything about Catalina, but it would be interesting to know if anyone who already dared to do this can solve it in this way?

 

[otternonsense]

This is one thing i dont understand. I mean i like OSX and of course there are ups and downs but Mail....Thats always a disaster with milion issues. I cant remember having mail on all computers working properly (same with iOS). Just rewrite that. Or buy someone!!!

It could have been a different story had Apple bought and incorporated the excellent Sparrow before Google poached and killed it. Alas..

 

[Jim Lahey]

Does Microsoft have this many issued when a new OS or even an upgraded build is released???

Windows just permanently sucks year-round year after year. It can barely update itself without turning it into a massive multi-stage chore. I use it for business applications that don't run under macOS, and I hate it. Can't shut it down quick enough. Sometimes literally.

The above is just my personal opinion and anyone is free to disagree

 

[Heat_Fan89]

I don't think it is a problem with the Mac Mini.

It's simply the fact that programs nowadays require more memory.

This wouldn't be that bad if Apple sells reasonable RAM prices for their computers.

Thankfully, the 2018 Mac Mini can be expanded. The same could not be said of their laptops.

I don't doubt that but it doesn't seem to affect Windows 10 as much as MacOS. Why is that? I even had a 2007 Dell laptop running Windows 10 x64 with 2GB of RAM. With MacOS Mojave just sitting at the desktop puts me in the 4.7GB range. Opening Safari with 2-4 tabs starts to hit close to 6.5GB. And if you by chance think that i'm stretching things a bit go have a look at the Mac mini forums where other users had to upgrade their RAM to either 16GB or 32GB because MacOS would easily start to hit high memory pressure, memory compression and memory swaps with 8GB of memory.

With 8GB of RAM in my Lenovo ThinkCentre Tiny, I can have Microsoft Edge, Chrome and Firefox all with several tabs open including the Windows 10 email client and i'm in the 5.5-6GB range. Good luck trying that with MacOS.

IMO, it appears to me that Windows 10 has become more optimized and efficient running and operating vs MacOS. Because if that were the case, I would not have had to upgrade the memory in my 2018 Mini.
[automerge]1570961245[/automerge]

Windows just permanently sucks year-round year after year. It can barely update itself without turning it into a massive multi-stage chore. I use it for business applications that don't run under macOS, and I hate it. Can't shut it down quick enough. Sometimes literally.

The above is just my personal opinion and anyone is free to disagree

I use Windows 10 along with Linux and MacOS and I don't share your experiences. Sure, the Windows 10 update delivery system can get annoying but out of the several machines running it, I have not encountered and major problems or issues.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

I am going to wait on Catalina for another 6 months until most of the annoying issues are cleaned up such as HDMI issues which affect the display. Some are saying in the Catalina forums it could be a firmware issue that only affects MacOS and not Windows 10 if they are running Bootcamp.

 

[jennyp]

Since the data is synced to the server, these problems can also propagate to other computers and devices

This seems like a good reason to hold off on this OS for the time being: could affect other Macs still running Mojave ?

 

[ColdShadow]

Apple Mail always sucked,I’ve been using Spark instead for over a year on both Mac and iOS.

Much better,more elegant,more functional and more user friendly interface and it’s free.

 

[loekf]

Using Thunderbird already for 15 years, first on Windows, now on Mac.

I see it every year with family members specially those with exchange accounts.

 

[citysnaps]

Apple missed the chance again for a groundbreaking redesign of the old fashioned email concept. No innovation in the main tools we all use everyday like mail, calender, adressbook and browser. This would really be a reason to stay or even switch to an OS. The first competitor who offers this could count me in.

Also they loose the competition to MS surface while still bringing no grown up laptop functionality to the iPad. This handicapped mouse support is a joke. The whole multitasking gestures are hard to learn.

and last but not least: the MacPro. Who should afford this?? Your pricing is a joke.

„Innovate my a**?“ Yes, you better should start.

And then there would have been a MR whine-n-moan-fest of biblical proportions with a hearty mixture of: who asked for this, regular mail was fine....jeeez can't Apple do anything right....and the always crowd pleaser, SJW Tim Cook needs to fired.

There's no forum cred to be had without a hand-wringing sky-is-falling moan about how bad Apple OS releases currently are, and how it was wonderful years ago.

 

[Vjosullivan]

...from time to time, mail launches by itself...

I lunch by myself from time to time, too. It's really not a problem.

 

[FlyingDutch]

macOS Catalina is one OS to skip. Never read about so many bugs and other problems with a release of a fresh new macOS.

Every single year I read the same words. Every. Single. Year.

 

[Jim Lahey]

That’s why they are worth a trillion dollars... they are cheap on their resources, have everything made for the cheapest price in China, then massively inflate their RRP on products that rarely go on sale. Throw in the odd scandle to up sell new phones and tax dodging and that’s how you become a trillion dollar company.
But remember iOS and Mac OS are made by Apple themselves, and you read beta testers on here claiming how long this or that bug has existed in the beta’s and they report them, yet they are still in the final releases.. I think Apple needs to follow Google’s model, release critical updates at any point in the year, but then I’d suggest major updates once every two years, Apple can save as many penny‘s as they like then on their skeleton software staff, and possibly make products that work.

Most people don’t think about these things, but Apple will force OS upgrades onto all its customers by messages popping up or automatic updates, and then they will see these bugs.. they will certainly care about that!

All in all I fully expect that arrogant hypocrite Cook to get on stage and gloat about how many users have updated to the latest iOS and Mac OS, compared to the competition... conveniently ignoring all the bugs..

With respect, that is possibly the first most irrational forum contribution I have ever seen anywhere on the internet. It's based on nothing but your own internal narrative. Obviously you're entitled to a voice your opinion, but it is only opinion. I'm going to go out on a limb and presume you know little or nothing about product development, software development, manufacturing, or tax law?

 

[NaimNut]

I simply love Jobs final response.

Oh wow. What did the original email say?
[automerge]1570944387[/automerge]

This

Subject: Re: Mr. Jobs - Student Journalist Concerned about Apple's MediaRelations Dept.

Dear Mr. Jobs,"

As a college student, I can honestly say that Apple has treated me very well; my iPod is basically the lifeline that gets me through the day, and thanks to Apple's Final Cut Pro, I aced last semester's video editing project. I was planning to buy a new Apple computer to add to my list of Apple favorites. Because I have had such good experiences as a college student using Apple products, I was incredibly surprised to find Apple's Media Relations Department to be absolutely unresponsive to my questions, which (as I had repeatedly told them in voicemail after voicemail) are vital to my academic grade as a student journalist.

For my journalism course, I am writing an article about the implementation of an iPad program at my school, the CW Post Campus of Long Island University.

The completion of this article is crucial to my grade in the class, and it may potentially get published in our university's newspaper. I had 3 quick questions regarding iPads, and wanted to obtain answers from the most credible source: Apple's Media Relations Department. I have called countless times throughout the week, leaving short, but detailed, messages which included my contact information and the date of my deadline. Today, I left my 6th message, which stressed the increasingly more urgent nature of the situation. It is now the end of the business day, and I have not received a call back. My deadline is tomorrow.

Mr. Jobs, I humbly ask why Apple is so wonderfully attentive to the needs of students, whether it be with the latest, greatest invention or the company's helpful customer service line, and yet, ironically, the Media Relations Department fails to answer any of my questions which are, as I have repeatedly told them, essential to my academic performance.

For colleges nationwide, Apple is at the forefront of improving the way we function in the academic environment, increasing the efficiency of conducting academic research, as well as sharing and communicating with our college communities. With such an emphasis on advancing our education system, why, then, has Apple's Media Relations team ignored my needs as a student journalist who is just trying to get a good grade?

In addition to the hypocrisy of ignoring student needs when they represent a company that does so much for our schools, the Media Relations reps are apparently, also failing to responsibly handle the inquiries of professional journalists on deadlines. Unfortunately, for a journalist in the professional world, lacking the answers they need on deadline day won't just cost them a grade; it could cost them their job.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

Chelsea Kate Isaacs, Senior, CW Post - Long Island University

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

The answer pings back at 16:19 (57 minutes later):

From: Steve Jobs [address and header confirmed - CA]

To: Chelsea Isaacs

Subject: Re: Mr. Jobs - Student Journalist Concerned about Apple's Media Relations Dept.

Our goals do not include helping you get a good grade. Sorry.

Sent from my iPhone

Gathering herself, Chelsea emails back at 4.37 (she's taken 18 minutes over this):

Thank you for your reply. I never said that your goal should be to "help me get a good grade." Rather, I politely asked why your media relations team does not respond to emails, which consequently, decreases my chances of getting a good grade. But, forget about my individual situation; what about common courtesy, in general --- if you get a message from a client or customer, as an employee, isn't it your job to return the call? That's what I always thought. But I guess that's not one of your goals. Yes, you do have a creative approach, indeed.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Is she slightly annoyed? Yes, I think that might be the case.


Back comes the response at 17.10 (33 minutes, if you're counting)

From: Steve Jobs

To: Chelsea Isaacs

Subject: Re: Mr. Jobs - Student Journalist Concerned about Apple's Media Relations Dept.

Nope. We have over 300 million users and we can't respond to their requests unless they involve a problem of some kind. Sorry.

Sent from my iPhone

And at 5.32 (22 minutes later) Chelsea has her answer:

You're absolutely right, and I do meet your criteria for being a customer who deserves a response:

1. I AM one of your 300 million users.

2. I DO have a problem; I need answers that only Apple Media Relations can answer.

Now, can they kindly respond to my request (my polite and friendly voice can be heard in the first 5 or 10 messages in their inbox). Please, I am on deadline.

I appreciate your help.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Long pause. Perhaps he's contacting the PR people, having realised that Isaacs only has three questions, that they're about iPads, and that the media relations people might be able to sort it out.

Ya think?

At 18.27, just under an hour since Isaacs's last email, comes the final reply:

From: Steve Jobs

To: Chelsea Isaacs

Subject: Re: Mr. Jobs - Student Journalist Concerned about Apple's MediaRelations Dept.

Please leave us alone.

Sent from my iPhone

 

[dernhelm]

Maybe there is a peak on Catalina that isn't named after a CBD fueled nightmare (High Catalina anyone?) that they can use for the name of their bug fix release in another few months.

 

[NaimNut]

I upgraded to Catalina without a single issue.
If I was using my mac mini for business I would have waited a couple of months before upgrading to ensure all the 3rd party 64 bit apps & Apple Apps had all the kinks worked out.

 

[MacBird]

My search function no longer works

I had the same problem, restarting the computer fixed it for me.

 

[alexhardaker]

I simply love Jobs final response.


















The answer pings back at 16:19 (57 minutes later):






Gathering herself, Chelsea emails back at 4.37 (she's taken 18 minutes over this):




Is she slightly annoyed? Yes, I think that might be the case.


Back comes the response at 17.10 (33 minutes, if you're counting)






And at 5.32 (22 minutes later) Chelsea has her answer:








Long pause. Perhaps he's contacting the PR people, having realised that Isaacs only has three questions, that they're about iPads, and that the media relations people might be able to sort it out.

Ya think?

At 18.27, just under an hour since Isaacs's last email, comes the final reply:

Haha wow. What do you think of the whole thing?

 

[MacBird]

Search doesn’t work at all for me in Mail.

Have you tried to restart the computer? That fixed the issue for me.