Psystar Files for Bankruptcy

[Ansuz]

Hey, no problemo. I'm sure that you supported Bill gates then in the 90's, right? That's all he was doing. If you didn't support him then you are a hypocrite now.

If all Microsoft was doing was protecting their OS from being used in ways that they did not allow per the licence then I would have supported him but that is not what they were doing at all.

Microsoft was not trying to protect its property in the 90s, they were using their dominate possition in the OS market to force users to accept IE rather than its rivals - in the case, it was Netscape - by threatening to pull their rights to sell the Windows operating system. If they had succeeded, it would have meant that no other browser would have been able to compete with IE. That is a violation of copyright laws.

Please look into the actual case before you make false comparisons.

 

[smurfjammer]

Hey, no problemo. I'm sure that you supported Bill gates then in the 90's, right? That's all he was doing. If you didn't support him then you are a hypocrite now.

I sure did - especially when he brought all that cash to Apple. Microsoft is a completely different case..
EDIT: Damm you Ansuz, you must type faster than me.. ;-)

 

[Veri]

Psystar could sell OS X & a Box without an issues but as soon as they opened the box and used modified software makes it an actionable offense.

So what Psystar II needs to do is to sell:
(1) One still shrink-wrapped copy of OS X (already available from Apple);
(2) One bootable installer binary on an otherwise empty hard drive, containing no unlicensed Apple code, which will enable completely automated installation of OS X in 10 minutes when it's first inserted in the DVD drive (already available from Hackintosh community).

Are we all agreed that selling this set-up is legally completely acceptable, and only the customer has to then worry about the EULA?

Oh, and while I'm here, why don't people just use DUET from the Tianocore project?

 

[*LTD*]

Apple's worse with portables than desktops.

- No cheap (under $1000) 15 or 16 inch notebook So?
- No netbook/tablet (I don't really care but some people do) Again, so what?
- Way too expensive, unbelievably expensive maybe for you
- Bad battery life Macbook/Pro battery life rates among the highest
- Not enough configurations (again) Again, your problem
- No matte screen for 15-inch (and I think the Unibody MacBook) Ok, I could perhaps agree with this.

Bolded my answers. Why do you assume you reflect Apple's market? Apple's market seems to have no problem at all with their offerings, and their price points. Apple is experiencing among the smallest computer sale contraction in the entire industry. And posting record quarters.

Your problems seem to be . . . just your own. And really, the problems of the forum posting community (and a minority of that community, to boot) hardly reflects the average.

Apple's notebook sales far outpace their desktop sales, and are consistently rated top in quality and customer satisfaction. Macs account for nearly half of Apple's revenue; they're Apple's biggest moneymaker.

You mean they're "worse" for YOU? Because Apple seems to be doing very, very well with their notebooks.

Build a hackintosh, then.

 

[Ansuz]

I sure did - especially when he brought all that cash to Apple. Microsoft is a completely different case..
EDIT: Damm you Ansuz, you must type faster than me.. ;-)

Don't blame me, blame my 7th grade typing teacher

 

[beg_ne]

Total rubbish? Why bother posting a comment like that if you've got such little experience with (or even just looking in a shop...) hardware.

Do you really need someone to describe the benefits and differences of screen sizes to you?

Unless you have vision problems there is no benefit at all if the screen has the same resolution.

You cannot fit more information on a 15" display at 1280x800 than you can with 13" at 1280x800.

Most consumers are completely ignorant about screen resolution and simply buy because "bigger is better"

 

[Tallest Skil]

Apple sells like 8 million Macs a year compared to 260 million PCs lol.

Excellent rebuttal. Please tell me when you have some evidence proving me wrong.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176104 H-IPS for $550.

Speakers, microphone, webcam, laptop charger.

OH, AND IT ISN'T LED BACKLIT.

Nice try.

 

[macUser2007]

Psystar could sell OS X & a Box without an issues but as soon as they opened the box and used modified software makes it an actionable offense.
....

Nice shill job for Apple, dude. Do they pay you by the hour?

Now, do you think Apple has actionable claim against Hackintosh.org, too?

Apple purposefully locks out competing hardware, by otherwise unnecessary code. If MS went out of its way to block Windows installation through Boot Camp, I am sure all the shills here will be screaming for the courts to block it.

 

[JohnnyLemonhead]

Psystar could sell OS X & a Box without an issues but as soon as they opened the box and used modified software makes it an actionable offense.
Also using the excuse that you love macs isn't going to make your comments any more reasonable.

Oh--OK. It's actionable because Jobs said not to do it. What if the license agreement in the OSX box said that using this product means that you agree to let Steve Jobs have access to all of your personal files at any time. Would that mean that he could have that access, and you could do nothing about it? Just because a license agreement specifies usage of the item, does not mean that whatever it says is iron-clad or even enforceable. If the OSX license said that Steve Jobs gets your first-born child trust me he wouldn't get any. Just because an agreement says something doesn't mean it is legal or enforceable, even after someone buys the product. If it were then there wouldn't be any need for lawyers, would there? Similarly, you can not sign away your rights to sue for negligence even though many people will try to get you to do just that in your life (permission slips for kid's field trips, medical procedures, etc) Even signing a contract saying "I have no rights" does not necessarily mean that you have no rights. Again this is what we have lawyers for. So again, just because an agreement says something does not make it law. Jobs can put whatever he wishes to in the agreement but it doesn't make it right or fair.

Again it is disheartening to know that all of you would do a complete 180 if it were Gates/Ballmer pulling this crap. All of you.

 

[smurfjammer]

Don't blame me, blame my 7th grade typing teacher

Maybe I should of listened to my teacher and spent more time in class than hang out at the mall.

 

[iMacmatician]

And of course Apple will never use Core i7 - they like selling underpowered hardware for "premium" prices.

They don't use Core i7 in the iMac due to heat restrictions. But even there they could be using better CPUs than what they are using now.

 

[macUser2007]

...
Build a hackintosh, then.

But that would be illegal, wouldn't it?

 

[*LTD*]

I sure did - especially when he brought all that cash to Apple. Microsoft is a completely different case..
EDIT: Damm you Ansuz, you must type faster than me.. ;-)

Apple received that cash as part of a settlement. Not because MS was being generous. Apple had MS in a legal headlock over patent infringements, and had Apple pressed the case, MS would have lost. Apple essentially blackmailed MS.

 

[IWantItThatWay]

- No cheap (under $1000) 15 or 16 inch notebook So? - Some people actually want a 15 inch laptop for under $1000
- No netbook/tablet (I don't really care but some people do) Again, so what? - obviously there is demand considering half of the MacRumors "news" deals with Apple netbooks/tablets (and then the iphone)
- Way too expensive, unbelievably expensive maybe for you - maybe for most of the population? Compared to PCs.
- Bad battery life Macbook/Pro battery life rates among the highest - they rate among the highest for Mac PCs, yes, but not overall
- Not enough configurations (again) Again, your problem - A 9600GT is great, for 2007.
- No matte screen for 15-inch (and I think the Unibody MacBook) Ok, I could perhaps agree with this.

Bolded my answers. Why do you assume you reflect Apple's market? Apple's market seems to have no problem at all with their offerings, and their price points. Apple is experiencing among the smallest computer sale contraction in the entire industry. And posting record quarters.

They could post better quarters if they would stop thinking they are selling Ferrari's.

Your problems seem to be . . . just your own. And really, the problems of the forum posting community (and a minority of that community, to boot) hardly reflects the average.

No, not just my own. You do realize Apple only has 3 (maybe 4)% of the market share right?

Apple's notebook sales far outpace their desktop sales, and are consistently rated top in quality and customer satisfaction. Macs account for nearly half of Apple's revenue; they're Apple's biggest moneymaker.

When you drop $1999 for a should-be $899 notebook you try to justify it.

You mean they're "worse" for YOU? Because Apple seems to be doing very, very well with their notebooks.

Build a hackintosh, then.

A Hackintosh runs 20 times better than Apple's crapware anyways.

 

[smurfjammer]

Now, do you think Apple has actionable claim against Hackintosh.org, too?

They could if wanted to but they aren't making money out of it and they are pissed at Psystar for stealing their coding.

 

[Veri]

Apple is experiencing among the smallest computer sale contraction in the entire industry.

That, quite simply, is because Apple sells to the rich and their student offspring, and the rich and their student offspring are always least affected by recession. The guy who could only afford a Dell will now get no new Dell, while the guy who could before afford a Mac can still afford a Mac.

Apple and the Knights of the One Infinite Loop will, of course, spin this into something about the quality of their products.

Speakers, microphone, webcam, laptop charger.

OH, AND IT ISN'T LED BACKLIT.

Speakers, microphone, webcam and laptop charger as prerequisites for choice of a display? I am a developer of 12 years and what is this?

(Also, I know there are other advantages, but are LCD backlit displays finally more energy-efficient than CFL as promised now?)

 

[*LTD*]

But that would be illegal, wouldn't it?

They won't go after you. Unless you want to run a business behind it a la Psystar.

 

[Tallest Skil]

No, not just my own. You do realize Apple only has 3 (maybe 4)% of the market share right?

Okay, please don't post again until you stop lying.

Apple has ~10%. End of story.

A Hackintosh runs 20 times better than Apple's crapware anyways.

Again, don't post until you stop lying. This subjective nonsense can easily be proven wrong.

I believe that your argument has just been handed back to you on a PCB platter.

 

[JohnnyLemonhead]

If all Microsoft was doing was protecting their OS from being used in ways that they did not allow per the licence then I would have supported him but that is not what they were doing at all.

Microsoft was not trying to protect its property in the 90s, they were using their dominate possition in the OS market to force users to accept IE rather than its rivals - in the case, it was Netscape - by threatening to pull their rights to sell the Windows operating system. If they had succeeded, it would have meant that no other browser would have been able to compete with IE. That is a violation of copyright laws.

Please look into the actual case before you make false comparisons.

If anything the comparison isn't fair to MS. Seriously, what Apple is doing here is so much worse. The only reason they are getting away with it is that they are so small in comparison to others. As others have said, if Apple pulled this same crap with a 90% market share instead of whatever share they do have, this would not be tolerated and it would probably be on the front page of the NYT. Apple gets to unfairly harass a company out of business just because they are flying (relatively speaking) under the radar. Oh and big shock that all the Jobs fanboys sycophantically rush to defend him. Jobs could open concentration camps for Windows users and you would find a way to support him.

 

[*LTD*]

That, quite simply, is because Apple sells to the rich and their student offspring, and the rich and their student offspring are always least affected by recession. The guy who could only afford a Dell will now get no new Dell, while the guy who could before afford a Mac can still afford a Mac.

So? Apple hits the Premium end of the market, and virtually owns that space now.

What are you trying to say?

 

[redrabbit]

seems like the people getting screwed here are the ones that bought a computer from pystar. When the next OS update breaks the OSX installation, who will they turn to get it fixed? pystar got their money, apple doesn't need to support them, I guess they are on their own to research and get their hackintosh fixed.

hmmm I don't know. if ONLY there was some, I don't know, massive network for computers to connect to available where you can post and ask questions to recieve help from other similar users? How much easier our lives would be with such a magnificient, magical invention!

 

[HLdan]

I never realized MR had so many members that were lawyers.

Yep, and most of them are under the age of 12.

 

[beg_ne]

That, quite simply, is because Apple sells to the rich and their student offspring, and the rich and their student offspring are always least affected by recession. The guy who could only afford a Dell will now get no new Dell, while the guy who could before afford a Mac can still afford a Mac.

Apple and the Knights of the One Infinite Loop will, of course, spin this into something about the quality of their products.

No, they sell to smart consumers who are willing to pay for a quality product when they see it.

I am far from rich, and so is my family yet I've still managed to buy Macs for the past 5+ years.

It's simple, save, be smart with your money and buy something of quality when you are capable.

Perhaps those that can only afford Dell simply lack self-control and discipline.

 

[gnasher729]

Oh--OK. It's actionable because Jobs said not to do it. What if the license agreement in the OSX box said that using this product means that you agree to let Steve Jobs have access to all of your personal files at any time. Would that mean that he could have that access, and you could do nothing about it? Just because a license agreement specifies usage of the item, does not mean that whatever it says is iron-clad or even enforceable. If the OSX license said that Steve Jobs gets your first-born child trust me he wouldn't get any. Just because an agreement says something doesn't mean it is legal or enforceable, even after someone buys the product.

I explained that in a previous post: The sale of a software license with a license agreement is a contract, and contracts are enforceable unless there is a specific situation that makes it unenforceable. And as you so eloquently showed, there are plenty of terms that one _could_ theoretically put into a license that would not be enforceable.

You can download Apple's MacOS X license at http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf . You should download and carefully read it; if you find anything that in your opinion is not enforceable, please tell us. I'm quite sure that first-born children are not mentioned anywhere.

If anything the comparison isn't fair to MS. Seriously, what Apple is doing here is so much worse. The only reason they are getting away with it is that they are so small in comparison to others. As others have said, if Apple pulled this same crap with a 90% market share instead of whatever share they do have, this would not be tolerated and it would probably be on the front page of the NYT.

Congratulations for realizing how laws about unfair competition work. The same action is illegal when a company with market power does it and legal when a company without market power does it. That is absolutely as it is intended and as it should be. So Apple didn't allow Psystar to sell computers with MacOS X. There are lots of success stories (Dell, HP, Acer and so on) that prove you can make a lot of money by selling computers without MacOS X, and a few of these outsell Apple. Instead of competing by building good computers for a decent price, Psystar had to sell MacOS X, which cost Apple hundreds of millions of dollars to develop, without a valid license and then had to take the matter to court, instead of selling their computers with one of several operating systems that they could have got a license for. That is just stupid. Now to make you see how monopoly laws fit in here: What if Microsoft didn't allow Dell to sell computers with any version of Windows? Dell would be wiped out.

Apple gets to unfairly harass a company out of business just because they are flying (relatively speaking) under the radar. Oh and big shock that all the Jobs fanboys sycophantically rush to defend him.

How clever of you. You come out with the biggest nonsense, and if anyone calls it nonsense then you say "uhh its all the Jobs fanboys who sycophantically rush to defend him".

Jobs could open concentration camps for Windows users and you would find a way to support him.

You are crossing a line now that shouldn't be crossed.

 

[*LTD*]

- No cheap (under $1000) 15 or 16 inch notebook So? - Some people actually want a 15 inch laptop for under $1000
- No netbook/tablet (I don't really care but some people do) Again, so what? - obviously there is demand considering half of the MacRumors "news" deals with Apple netbooks/tablets (and then the iphone)
- Way too expensive, unbelievably expensive maybe for you - maybe for most of the population? Compared to PCs.
- Bad battery life Macbook/Pro battery life rates among the highest - they rate among the highest for Mac PCs, yes, but not overall
- Not enough configurations (again) Again, your problem - A 9600GT is great, for 2007.
- No matte screen for 15-inch (and I think the Unibody MacBook) Ok, I could perhaps agree with this.


They could post better quarters if they would stop thinking they are selling Ferrari's.


No, not just my own. You do realize Apple only has 3 (maybe 4)% of the market share right?


When you drop $1999 for a should-be $899 notebook you try to justify it.


A Hackintosh runs 20 times better than Apple's crapware anyways.

Selling on volume is a losing game. Apple makes a killing on margins. The rest are struggling. Margins vs. Volume. You sell less but get a helluva lot more per unit. It's assumed that you can command more because of quality. And the quality is certainly there. Apple's market says it is with each sale.

Your market share numbers are a bit off. There are 35-40 million OS X users anyway.

I have no problem dropping $1999 for an Apple notebook. I prefer it. It's a very well put-together package. And it's the real deal. I actually *feel* better about it. And I feel quite good about it months later. Every penny is worth it. I recognize real value in Mac/OS X, as do millions upon millions of others, from all walks of life, especially professions, those in academia, medicine, you name it.

Keep running OS X on your hackintosh then. If you are running OS X on a hackintosh and are happy with that, why are you here complaining??? Your problems are solved.

Your manufactured problems, again, are your own. Stop projecting them onto everyone else, LOL.