Psystar to Challenge Mac OS X EULA?

[Trip.Tucker]

Totally Agree!

Those people who want Apple to "smash" Psystar (who tries to break the Monopoly of Apple with its overly-pompous EULA) are the people who became jealous they bought a couple thousand dollar computers only because of MacOS X . And now it seems that we will be able to get it twice cheaper, so they try to justify their current and much loved purchase

As someone else said, it is a win/win situation for consumers, why would you support the giant (i.e. Apple) when that small company is doing it for YOUR OWN good!

Young and Canadian and free... must be so nice to live in a dream world

 

[xbjllb]

No it's not! Just look at the spot Microsoft is in with Windows. So many drivers, compatibility issues and bloat. That's one of the reasons I switched to the Mac.


I'm not deaf, I'm just not stupid.

I never said nor implied YOU were deaf or stupid; I was referring to Apple.

 

[surferfromuk]

seriously folks, why would anyone want cheaper, nastier, shabbier, tattier macs - all of Apple's computer are beautiful pieces of design and engineering - anyone wanting to run OSS on some tatty piece of crap to save a couple of hundred bucks ought to just buy a PC and just come to terms with their own lack of good taste, perception of quality and general lack of good taste.
I seriously hope Apple never start thinking that people want a cheap and nasty mac cos down that road lies a cheap and nasty operating system. Once the standard slides it takes everything else with it.
I hope Apple shut em down - besides you can run the OSX hack on any number of PC's so I don't see why this is really news.

 

[synergy]

Since when does any company implicitly have the LEGAL right to "protect their business model" ? Do you realize how draconian and monopolistic that sounds?

Since when? Since we started accepting corporations as legal entities with rights. Thats just the way it is.

My guess is you will not even see Apple attempt to fight this in court based on the EULA at all because in all likelihood the EULA will lose. Of course, Apple has enough money to drag this case out on many fronts until this company is broke, but who in their right mind is cheering for that? Geez, that's like cheering for Microsoft IMHO!

What is your guess based on? A study of EULA lawsuits? I am not seeing a point there.

Where Apple has a case is with copyright infringement of the Apple or Mac name or DMCA due to the EFI emulator. This is where Apple legal will pounce. But I'm not even sure I'd cheer for Apple in this regard either. What if IBM had attempted to close the PC market from clones based on its copyrights? Of course IBM, unlike Apple, was too stupid to copyright a lot of things they should have back then, but what if they had? Boy would the world be different.

Are you confusing patent with copyright? Compaq reverse engineered the BIOS. Reverse engineering was ok then under patent law. Copyright pertains to art, music, movies etc. etc.

If Apple were smart from a marketing and PR perspective, they'd get off their asses and just release a similar product that hits this niche market. It's not like people haven't been clamoring for a mid-range, somewhat expandable tower for years! Geesh! That is how Apple got hurt by the previous Mac clone market, not hitting key markets and price points. Then no one will even remember who this Psystar is anymore and no legal challenge will even be necessary. Why would Apple want to even risk losing in court on EULA or anything really. If they did lose, the Mac clone market would once again be wide open and even Dell could jump in if they wanted.

Finally, here's a more interesting scenario...
What if Apple sues them on multiple fronts in such a way that Psystar has no way of fighting from a money standpoint. Then Apple quietly settles the lawsuit by BUYING Psystar for a measly million and then releases a nicer version of the product designed by Apple! Case closed.

Again what is the basis of claiming Apple would lose in court on the EULA? Apple has been succeeding by not making a mid-level tower, would I like one? Possibly. At this point my Mac Book Pro serves all my needs.

And as for your scenario it also is off the wall. First they sue them for all they are worth and then they buy them so they can repackage their product? In case you forgot apple is the original maker of the Mac OS X compatible towers. They can at anytime cut costs trim features and make a mid-level tower. Why would they need to buy some clone maker to do what they already do?

 

[QuarterSwede]

I never said nor implied YOU were deaf or stupid; I was referring to Apple.

Oh oops! Then I agree with you. Sorry about that.

 

[xbjllb]

seriously folks, why would anyone want cheaper, nastier, shabbier, tattier macs - all of Apple's computer are beautiful pieces of design and engineering - anyone wanting to run OSS on some tatty piece of crap to save a couple of hundred bucks ought to just buy a PC and just come to terms with their own lack of good taste, perception of quality and general lack of good taste.
I seriously hope Apple never start thinking that people want a cheap and nasty mac cos down that road lies a cheap and nasty operating system. Once the standard slides it takes everything else with it.
I hope Apple shut em down - besides you can run the OSX hack on any number of PC's so I don't see why this is really news.

"a cheap and nasty operating system"... Hmmm, obviously you don't frequent the Apple Mac forums very much, do you? No more clear evidence of Apple using its early adopters as beta testers can be found.

Now that's what I call "cheap and nasty". And I wish Apple would stop.

 

[ChrisA]

seriously folks, why would anyone want cheaper, nastier, shabbier, tattier macs

Right about that. No reason to buy bottom dollar junk.

But I'd like to run Mac OS X on a high quality ASUS quad core mainboard with 8GB of ECC RAM and placed in a silent desktop chassis. But I can't because Apple does not make this. I could build a really nice quad core system comparable in quality to Apple for $1,000. If Apple sold them for $1,400 they'd have a huge hit but We all know it would cabbolize sales of imac and MP.

 

[Krafty]

What if Honda said that, after you buy their car, you could only drive it on the roads they said you could?

Go to a different dealer then?

 

[Clive At Five]

No it's not! Just look at the spot Microsoft is in with Windows. So many drivers, compatibility issues and bloat. That's one of the reasons I switched to the Mac.

No, Windows is bloated because their software still has legacy support dating back to 1995 or maybe even earlier. And since when is driver support Apple's responsibility? If a card doesn't work on my PC, I take it up with the manufacturer, not Microsoft. A lot of times, they have a newer driver for me to install.

Besides, developers are going about this driver business all the wrong way. A computer should connect to a server, find the drivers that apply to the hardware within the case, and download them. It's Apple/Microsoft's idiocy that haven't implemented this sort of system yet. Why on earth would someone install 27,000 drivers when they'll likely only use 10 or 12? That's just poor planning.

If Apple cannot keep up with and open hardware system like this, they are no better than MS. In fact, with the number of hardware permutations out there, it's a miracle Windows is as good as it is, especially considering their general disarray. An organized, driven company like Apple should be able to handle it.

IANAP (programmer) so I could be completely off-base.

-Clive

 

[Vulpinemac]

It's too bad this point was made very early in the thread ... of course, no one is reading it.


I think he meant hardware updates.

If so, then I apologize to him. However, on the average even then hardware updates are reasonably frequent, though mostly internal rather than external. Just look back at the early 90s to see what too-frequent visible upgrades to hardware did to Apple. Just wait two months and a new, better model is out; when do you decide to choose one? How soon will it be obsolete?

Talk about a mistake! It's no wonder the "business" CEOs nearly drove Apple into the ground!!

 

[Tallest Skil]

Me either. After ruining about 10 chrome cheese graters in the dishwasher, I found that if you wash them by hand (soak them with detergent and the cheese just comes right off) they'll last forever.

I like chrome now. I wouldn't be putting my PsyStar Open Pro in the dishwasher anyway.

The Mac Pro, I HAVE put in the dishwasher, since it's not chrome; it's the ONLY way to get the cheese off.

Just... leave. Now. You have nothing to contribute. Troll in a Microsoft forum.

 

[xbjllb]

Geez, wish the Apple stock owners would quit panic-posting kneejerk defenses

Look, competition, REAL competition, will only make Apple stronger and more responsive to its customers needs (and ALL its customers, from the 13 year old with an iPod to the 40 year old pro video editor to the 70 year old web/forum surfer to everyone in between.)

That's IF Apple gets back to the business of making real cutting edge hardware that DESERVES the premium prices they charge.

And if they could learn from other folks how to make them more attractive to consumers (good Lord, don't they do ANY market research or do they rely on public forums to get the word {skewed by scared Apple stockholders} for free?), that can only be a good thing too in the long run.

PsyStar is not going to destroy Apple or "drive it to the level of a Microsoft"; just give them a BADLY needed wake-up call, one they've needed for A LONG TIME.

 

[surferfromuk]

"a cheap and nasty operating system"... Hmmm, obviously you don't frequent the Apple Mac forums very much, do you? No more clear evidence of Apple using its early adopters as beta testers can be found.

Now that's what I call "cheap and nasty". And I wish Apple would stop.

I run logic pro 8 and final cut studio 2 on a white iMac running leopard - never had a single crash yet - and I run them hard to the max of the CPU.
My immediate family have about six macs - all with leopard - and equally have never exerienced a single problem.
I know a ton of people running leopard - again not one has had a single problem.
only junk s/w I know of is microsoft 08 - so I think your talking smack - like all the other kiddies who think running a stolen copy of leopard on some home made piece of junk sh$t computer is an aspirationall goal.
I don't think their is a company in the world can hold a candle to Apple's quality and standard of excellence.

 

[xbjllb]

Just... leave. Now. You have nothing to contribute. Troll in a Microsoft forum.

Must have hit a nerve...

 

[Roderick Usher]

the idiots known as professional gamers

What?

 

[xbjllb]

I run logic pro 8 and final cut studio 2 on a white iMac running leopard - never had a single crash yet - and I run them hard to the max of the CPU.
My immediate family have about six macs - all with leopard - and equally have never exerienced a single problem.
I know a ton of people running leopard - again not one has had a so god problem.
only junk s/w I know of is microsoft 08 - so I think your talking smack - like all the other kiddies who think running a stolen copy of leopard on some home made piece of junk sh$t computer is an aspirationsl goal.
I don't think their is a company in the world can hold a candle to Apple's quality and standard of excellenc.

Must be strange around your house, what with all the candles around the computers and the prostrating yourselves eight times a day before them and incense burning and stuff. Which framed posters of Steve Jobs do you have on the walls behind the computers... do you have different ones or are they all the same?

APPLE'S A BIG BOY. They don't need your worship, or your over-the-top defense. Nor do they deserve it. They're quite capable of taking criticism, Lord knows they've done nothing but completely ignore it for a few years now.

 

[hiptobesquare]

Right about that. No reason to buy bottom dollar junk.

But I'd like to run Mac OS X on a high quality ASUS quad core mainboard with 8GB of ECC RAM and placed in a silent desktop chassis. But I can't because Apple does not make this. I could build a really nice quad core system comparable in quality to Apple for $1,000. If Apple sold them for $1,400 they'd have a huge hit but We all know it would cabbolize sales of imac and MP.

I have never understood the "cannibalize" argument.

If Apple currently sells an All-in-One iMac, and a more expensive, full-tower, two and a half laptop lines, and a bargain machine, why would apple selling another product or two cannibalize anything?

A system like you, and I previously have described would be priced similar to an iMac, without a screen, although probably outputs for two external screens, which nothing short of a Mac Pro can currently do. A mini or mid-tower would differentiate itself by using desktop-style full-size hardware, in a case marginally larger than MacMini, and smaller than Mac Pro, and more versatile than iMac.

If APPLE sells all of those things, APPLE gets all of those sales. It isn't as if some other company would get them, and Apple would lose them. (that will happen if Psystar is successful at offering a product that Apple does not)

Maybe the sales figures for the product matrix might shift around a bit, but so what? Doesn't Apple want to make the sales? They aren't right now, at least not to me.

Mac Mini is nearly there, but under equipped, and not upgradeable. iMac has better specs, but is not configured physically as I want, and even less upgradeable by having a fixed screen. Mac Pro is overkill like swatting a fly with a Louisville Slugger, and too expensive for what I would like to use it for.

All of those products fit other roles well, but they surround a big gap in the middle.

Psystar's machines don't fit the role quite right either (no optical audio, no IR remote, no/iffy support or upgrades by not being official) But maybe they'll give Apple enough of a nudge to get a clue that there are some of us out here waiting for another product. And selling us something that we are not buying as of yet, is MORE SALES, not somehow losing or diverting sales.

Apple selling more products doesn't diminish other Apple products, if the products are profitable, which they most certainly can be.

 

[Clive At Five]

!!FANBOY ALERT!!

seriously folks, why would anyone want cheaper, nastier, shabbier, tattier macs - all of Apple's computer are beautiful pieces of design and engineering - anyone wanting to run OSS on some tatty piece of crap to save a couple of hundred bucks ought to just buy a PC and just come to terms with their own lack of good taste, perception of quality and general lack of good taste.

Bravo! Spoken like a true fanboy! Before your brilliant post, I had no idea that any piece of 3rd-party hardware was automatically a "tatty piece of crap."

Look buddy, I don't know who you're trying to convince, but I (and many others, it seems from the reports in this thread) have had just as much success with 3rd-party tech as with Apple's tech... and in some cases, more.

Personally, I've had my iMac for 6 years and around year 3, it developed a problem interacting with the optical drive, where it "forgot" if there was a disk inside and it would ultimately freeze the computer. Even a new drive wouldn't fix it. No one has been able to offer a solution for my problem so I have to remember to remove CDs/DVDs the instant they are done burning. It's extremely annoying. Meanwhile, I've had a home-built PC for 4 years, and it has had literally no hardware problems.

Anyone who knows a s**t about computers can pair together hardware that will work well with OS X. If you build a computer with crappy components, most likely it will run Windows and OS X with equal quality: crappily.

only junk s/w I know of is microsoft 08 - so I think your talking smack - like all the other kiddies who think running a stolen copy of leopard on some home made piece of junk sh$t computer is an aspirationall goal.
I don't think their is a company in the world can hold a candle to Apple's quality and standard of excellence.

Again, assumptions of piracy where there is none. Get your facts straight, fanboy. The OSx86 community's goal is to LEGALLY bring the benefits of OS X to those who refuse to sell their soul for design frills and status symbols. I applaud that.

-Clive

 

[spydr]

only end users can break EULA, they didn't break any EULA, nor laws.

They also sell OS X preinstalled – which would mean EULA already broken when you order such machines.

 

[surferfromuk]

Must be strange around your house, what with all the candles around the computers and the prostrating yourselves eight times a day before them and incense burning and stuff. Which framed posters of Steve Jobs do you have on the walls behind the computers... do you have different ones or are they all the same?

APPLE'S A BIG BOY. They don't need your worship, or your over-the-top defense. Nor do they deserve it. They're quite capable of taking criticism, Lord knows they've done nothing but completely ignore it for a few years now.

Criticism is one thing - a multitude of thieves and homebrew XP 'toe-dippers' running a dual boot copy of Leopard on their PC junk box so they can run a stolen copy of Logic is an entirely different thing.
Apple make fantastic products matched in their excellence by only a handful of companies - they deserve my respect and I value their commitment to great products and beautiful design - if you can understand how opening the doors to the chaos of 'any old sh&t will do' then you simply live in a world with significantly lower expectations than me - but each to their own I suppose.

 

[HLdan]

Buyers or Smoke Blowers?

Okay I have kept up with these posts for since yesterday and what I have noticed is there are a LOT of Windows users and some switchers and even a few Mac users who seem to be all for this Hackintosh presented by Psystar. Many of the posters are now saying that Apple has conned it's customers into buying overpriced, outdated and restricted hardware

So after all of this BIG talk about how great this idea is has anyone actually bought one? It's still available on the website. Back up your statements by buying one rather than blowing so much smoke.

 

[dsnort]

Look, competition, REAL competition, will only make Apple stronger and more responsive to its customers needs

If it was real competition, wouldn't Psystar develop their own OS? What kind of competition is it where this podunk company gets to use the product Apple spent millions of dollars developing to sell Psystar comps?

Get your facts straight, fanboy. The OSx86 community's goal is to LEGALLY bring the benefits of OS X to those who refuse to sell their soul for design frills and status symbols. I applaud that.

-Clive

I'd like a Testarossa for under $20k, can the OSx86 group get me one?

 

[Clive At Five]

Okay I have kept up with these posts for since yesterday and what I have noticed is there are a LOT of Windows users and some switchers and even a few Mac users who seem to be all for this Hackintosh presented by Psystar. Many of the posters are now saying that Apple has conned it's customers into buying overpriced, outdated and restricted hardware

So after all of this BIG talk about how great this idea is has anyone actually bought one? It's still available on the website. Back up your statements by buying one rather than blowing so much smoke.

Long-time-mac-user here. I'm with those who say Apple neglects its customers' needs in favor of higher profits. As a long-time xMac advocate, I've been simply unable to upgrade because Apple doesn't offer a computer that will meet my needs for the next 4 years. Certainly I'm aware that any Mac I buy today will smoke my 800MHz G4 iMac but this was also the case when I first bought that iMac. I still managed to grow out of it in just a couple years. Gone are the $1499 PowerMacs, a computer that would've fit me perfectly. As someone before me said, the el-capitan G3/G4 was never replaced. Instead, high-end servers were disguised as desktops and prices were launched into space, effectively killing modestly-powerful towers for prosumers.

Finally I'm fed up and will be building a hackintosh in the very near future. I will not purchase an OpenMac as I can do it myself cheaper and better, plus including a hacked OS X is piracy, which I don't condone.

Nevertheless, Psystar is on the right track with challenging Apple's EULA. Apple has been very imperialistic about their users, especially since the Intel switch.

The perfect solution, however, would be for Apple to just give a s**t about their customers and listen to the huge congregations of users who are begging for an upgradable tower. Customer satisfaction is more important that further lining the pockets of a stable billion-dollar company... especially one who makes as outstanding products as Apple.

-Clive

 

[Consultant]

A more expensive OS that installs on generic hardware is the best solution... and I am confident that users will embrace it. Meanwhile, there will remain a challenge for Apple to create superior products... which is good.

Someone said it before, and I will echo it: If I could purchase OS X for >$129 and install it on hardware of my choice, I would. Apple won't meet my hardware needs and so any purchase from me is going to be few and far-between. Quite honestly, it'd probably work out better for Apple to just sell me OS X every two years for $300 than rely on me as a source of hardware income. I've gone for 6 years on an iMac, and I'm *thinking* of getting a MacMini this year...

-Clive

If you have the skills, you can use your mac to make you money so that you an actually afford whatever toys you want, take girls out to nice restaurants, etc.

Gone are the $1499 PowerMacs, a computer that would've fit me perfectly.

So $1499 PowerMac would fit your needs. Do you know refurb MacPros go for as low as $1799??? You can't afford an extra $300? Nevermind that the MacPro will run circles around the PowerMac.

If you cannot afford it, it's not for you. Pros who make a living using Macs have no problem upgrading to the latest MacPros every year or every other year.

 

[Clive At Five]

I'd like a Testarossa for under $20k, can the OSx86 group get me one?

No, but they can help you find a legally-purchased copy of OS X running on generic hardware.

I'd bet if you did your research, you could build a car with the power of a Testarossa and put it in the body of another vehicle for about that price.

-Clive