Did you try any 2.6Ghz models by chance? Also, could you kill-task whatever that store scheduling software is that people above mentioned?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Retina MBP UI performance - with video
- Thread starter CausticPuppy
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Well, turns out they actually did have one in stock and I bought it. I'm typing this on it now. It's a base model (2.3 GHz), running at default retina resolution right now with automatic graphics switching on.
The problem is definitely not happening, and I can say this with confidence because I witnessed it in person at the Apple store. Transitions look absolutely fine, no lagginess or choppiness at all.
Safari is still a bit laggy for my taste, but the issue demonstrated in the OP's video is not there.
Case closed: it's the store software.
Good to know that it is better without that store software but it should not slow down a new computer that much. The MBAs I looked at yesterday had no scroll lag at all.
Enjoy the new toy!
Good to know that it is better without that store software but it should not slow down a new computer that much. The MBAs I looked at yesterday had no scroll lag at all.
Enjoy the new toy!
My guess is it's some sort of graphics display issue rather than it's slowing it down due to raw resources used. If you look on a new RMBP in store, it's quite clear the store software hasn't been updated yet because the icons don't have Retina-level graphics and the text is all blocky and pixelated.
It will probably be fixed, I'm just relieved that it isn't an inherent issue with the device.
I got a 210.4ms on Safari (5.1.7), I have a late 2009 27' 2.66 Ghz i5 iMac.
and
209.3ms on Safari (5.1.7) on a late 2009 3.06 Ghz C2D Macbook Pro.
Guess Apple optimized Safari like anything, so like machine power is pretty irrelevant.
Its sad that there isn't much difference in javascript performance on such a monster of a machine (Retina Macbook Pro).
Laggy scrolling is a known problem
Try Mail on the RMBP with one of the image-heavy conversations. I did that this morning in the apple store, and it was truly awful, with < 10fps animation.
Laggy scrolling is nothing new or surprising though - it's due to limitations of the AppKit framework.
I'm hoping that Apple will take the opportunity in Mountain Lion to upgrade the legacy scroll views they are using to use Core Animation. Specifically, AppKit really needs to be altered/superseded to be something more like UIKit on iOS, whose elements are based on Core Animation. That's why the iPhone and iPad are so slick, despite having high resolutions with relatively weak hardware. I think they highlighted Safari as getting CA support, which will certainly help scrolling on the RMBP, but it really needs to be included across the board.
Personally, I'll be waiting until ML is around and will take another look at the hardware then.
(For those interested, this article explains the situation well http://blog.maybeapps.com/post/4004878826/the-rude-awakening-for-ios-devs)
Try Mail on the RMBP with one of the image-heavy conversations. I did that this morning in the apple store, and it was truly awful, with < 10fps animation.
Laggy scrolling is nothing new or surprising though - it's due to limitations of the AppKit framework.
I'm hoping that Apple will take the opportunity in Mountain Lion to upgrade the legacy scroll views they are using to use Core Animation. Specifically, AppKit really needs to be altered/superseded to be something more like UIKit on iOS, whose elements are based on Core Animation. That's why the iPhone and iPad are so slick, despite having high resolutions with relatively weak hardware. I think they highlighted Safari as getting CA support, which will certainly help scrolling on the RMBP, but it really needs to be included across the board.
Personally, I'll be waiting until ML is around and will take another look at the hardware then.
(For those interested, this article explains the situation well http://blog.maybeapps.com/post/4004878826/the-rude-awakening-for-ios-devs)
Last edited:
All Macs in Apple Store having problems?
I've got a 2.6GHz, 512GB SSD, 16GB RAM Retina MBP on order to replace my aging early 2008 17" MBP. I'm extremely stoked about this upgrade, so you can imagine my disappointment when I started to hear mention of issues relating to UI lag!
I couldn't bare not seeing this Retina MBP in person any longer, and seeing first hand if these issues were truly a problem or not. So off I was to the Plano, TX Willow Bend Apple store during my lunch break.
As soon as I entered the store, I circled the table of RMBP's like a Moutain Lion stalking it's prey. My mouth was salivating. It truly is a sexy machine. Coming from a 17" MBP, the light weight and super slim form factor are like night and day! The build quality is top notch, the screen is absolutely gorgeous! If you have a chance to check one out, open Aperature and pan around on one of the super high resolution photos they've pre-loaded - simply stunning.
After drooling over the aesthetics, I figured it was time to get on with actually using this beast! I shut it down, and booted it up. Just as the reviews had been saying, about 17 seconds from after my finger was lifted from the power button to when the desktop appeared. Awesome! I was very, very, very pleasantly surprised to see that what others were saying about the 'scaled modes' was true - the display looks insanely great not only in retina mode (1440x900), but also in every single other display mode offered. That's kick-ass.
That's when I began to perform some of the tasks that have been discussed in this thread. I swiped from space to space. I put apps in and out of full screen mode. I invoked mission control. I dragged windows around. I added the "Applications" directory to the dock and after clicking on it, tried to scroll up and down through the list of apps. I loaded pages like apple.com and theverge.com in Safari doing a fair bit of scrolling(both full screen and partial screen modes). I performed all of these tests in every single resolution(or display mode as Apple is calling it now). I performed all of these tests with both automatic graphics switching on and off(yes I rebooted after making the change). I rebooted several times, I made sure no other apps were running. I made sure all of the system updates were installed. Unfortunately, there is some bad news. Fortunately there is also some good news.
The bad news - animations looked positively *horrible*. Stuttering, extremely low frame rates. Tearing. Windows not animating at all in some cases and just appearing in their new position rather than moving. My early 2008 MBP (1920x1200) ran circles around this thing when it came to animating general Mac OS X UI stuff(e.g. expose). The results were all exactly the same, no matter which combination of these modes I had the machine in. Some people have commented that it has something to do with the background apps that Apple is running on these machines in the stores, so I spent some time investigating that very thing. At one point I had Activity Monitor open, and I saw one of these store background services(I think the concierge service) spike and stay at 100% CPU usage for a while when I was going in and out of mission control. I killed both this service and the "Desktop Icons" app using Activity Monitor. Unfortunately, It didn't seem to make a difference, however, there might be other services/apps running in the background with more obscure names that are chewing up GPU cycles(but ostensibly not CPU)? I began taking some videos, all the while seriously, for the first time considering the possibility of cancelling my order. I took three videos before an Apple Store Employee told me I wasn't allowed to take 'photos' in the store - is this true? that's seriously lame. I was prepared to upload them so that others in this thread could see for themselves the problems I encountered. Worried yet? Don't worry, there is a light at the end of this tunnel...
The good news - I visited at least one model of each product line in the store. I wanted to see if any of the other machines suffered from the same symptoms. Guess what? They all did! I tried the same suite of tests on a: MacBook Air 11", MacBook Air 13", MacBook Pro 13", MacBook Pro 15"(Non-retina, fully loaded), iMac, and even a Mac Pro. Every single machine suffered from the exact same issues. I don't know exactly what is different about the machines in their stores as of late, but my god, it's bad. It's a *horrible* experience. I don't recall ever experiencing this while playing with the macs in the stores before. The upside to all of this is that it now makes complete sense to me as to why people who have actually purchased and received their RMBP are not experiencing these problems.
Long story long - I wouldn't worry about this. I think it's a non-issue. Apple retail execs should be worried though, as this is a horrible experience for potential buyers.
I can't wait until I receive my new RMBP. Apologies in advance for the long posting.
I've got a 2.6GHz, 512GB SSD, 16GB RAM Retina MBP on order to replace my aging early 2008 17" MBP. I'm extremely stoked about this upgrade, so you can imagine my disappointment when I started to hear mention of issues relating to UI lag!
I couldn't bare not seeing this Retina MBP in person any longer, and seeing first hand if these issues were truly a problem or not. So off I was to the Plano, TX Willow Bend Apple store during my lunch break.
As soon as I entered the store, I circled the table of RMBP's like a Moutain Lion stalking it's prey. My mouth was salivating. It truly is a sexy machine. Coming from a 17" MBP, the light weight and super slim form factor are like night and day! The build quality is top notch, the screen is absolutely gorgeous! If you have a chance to check one out, open Aperature and pan around on one of the super high resolution photos they've pre-loaded - simply stunning.
After drooling over the aesthetics, I figured it was time to get on with actually using this beast! I shut it down, and booted it up. Just as the reviews had been saying, about 17 seconds from after my finger was lifted from the power button to when the desktop appeared. Awesome! I was very, very, very pleasantly surprised to see that what others were saying about the 'scaled modes' was true - the display looks insanely great not only in retina mode (1440x900), but also in every single other display mode offered. That's kick-ass.
That's when I began to perform some of the tasks that have been discussed in this thread. I swiped from space to space. I put apps in and out of full screen mode. I invoked mission control. I dragged windows around. I added the "Applications" directory to the dock and after clicking on it, tried to scroll up and down through the list of apps. I loaded pages like apple.com and theverge.com in Safari doing a fair bit of scrolling(both full screen and partial screen modes). I performed all of these tests in every single resolution(or display mode as Apple is calling it now). I performed all of these tests with both automatic graphics switching on and off(yes I rebooted after making the change). I rebooted several times, I made sure no other apps were running. I made sure all of the system updates were installed. Unfortunately, there is some bad news. Fortunately there is also some good news.
The bad news - animations looked positively *horrible*. Stuttering, extremely low frame rates. Tearing. Windows not animating at all in some cases and just appearing in their new position rather than moving. My early 2008 MBP (1920x1200) ran circles around this thing when it came to animating general Mac OS X UI stuff(e.g. expose). The results were all exactly the same, no matter which combination of these modes I had the machine in. Some people have commented that it has something to do with the background apps that Apple is running on these machines in the stores, so I spent some time investigating that very thing. At one point I had Activity Monitor open, and I saw one of these store background services(I think the concierge service) spike and stay at 100% CPU usage for a while when I was going in and out of mission control. I killed both this service and the "Desktop Icons" app using Activity Monitor. Unfortunately, It didn't seem to make a difference, however, there might be other services/apps running in the background with more obscure names that are chewing up GPU cycles(but ostensibly not CPU)? I began taking some videos, all the while seriously, for the first time considering the possibility of cancelling my order. I took three videos before an Apple Store Employee told me I wasn't allowed to take 'photos' in the store - is this true? that's seriously lame. I was prepared to upload them so that others in this thread could see for themselves the problems I encountered. Worried yet? Don't worry, there is a light at the end of this tunnel...
The good news - I visited at least one model of each product line in the store. I wanted to see if any of the other machines suffered from the same symptoms. Guess what? They all did! I tried the same suite of tests on a: MacBook Air 11", MacBook Air 13", MacBook Pro 13", MacBook Pro 15"(Non-retina, fully loaded), iMac, and even a Mac Pro. Every single machine suffered from the exact same issues. I don't know exactly what is different about the machines in their stores as of late, but my god, it's bad. It's a *horrible* experience. I don't recall ever experiencing this while playing with the macs in the stores before. The upside to all of this is that it now makes complete sense to me as to why people who have actually purchased and received their RMBP are not experiencing these problems.
Long story long - I wouldn't worry about this. I think it's a non-issue. Apple retail execs should be worried though, as this is a horrible experience for potential buyers.
I can't wait until I receive my new RMBP. Apologies in advance for the long posting.
Thanks so much for that. Can't wait for you to get your 2.6Ghz, as you're clearly a thorough person with a good eye for these kind of things. Really curious to hear if 2.6 fares any better with Safari/Itunes laggy scrolling for example, which is something real users have reported at their homes, despite never seeing the UI choppiness that you saw in store display models. If what someone above said is right that the scrollviews are CPU rendered, 2.6 might actually help, and be worth the investment.
For others following this thread, I want to add that I had the exact same experience as Cronus at the local Apple store this morning. I tried various machines (Air / Mac Pro etc) and they were all awful, especially when I tried going to full screen and back in iPhoto.
It's a disappointing experience in the store, but I think I'm going to go ahead and buy one anyway - they really must have some bug in the store software.
It's a disappointing experience in the store, but I think I'm going to go ahead and buy one anyway - they really must have some bug in the store software.
My new MBPR does not have the slowdown in the original video.... but lots of webpages (noticed it on espn.com and msnbc.com) have really laggy scrolling.
My new MBPR does not have the slowdown in the original video.... but lots of webpages (noticed it on espn.com and msnbc.com) have really laggy scrolling.
Just curious, but how does it compare from your previous computer that you're replacing with the new MBPR?
I get some laggy scrolling on msnbc.com on my 2010 MBA. However, the worst offender I've ever seen is Steam's store page. It's literally horrible. Would you mind trying it if you have steam account and client downloaded?My new MBPR does not have the slowdown in the original video.... but lots of webpages (noticed it on espn.com and msnbc.com) have really laggy scrolling.
Also, you should try these pages with Chrome, see if it makes any difference.
Previous computer was a late 2010 MacBook Air, I never even noticed scrolling lag on it. Certainly not on those sites.
The performance of this computer seems great besides the lag, it kind of reminds me of using Android to be honest... lol
That's what I have, and the scroll lag is noticeable to me on many websites with it. If MBPR is worse than that...
Which MBPR model do you have? 2.3, 2.6 or 2.7Ghz?
So I just want to put the video bashing to rest. On the HD4000 card it should run smooth. We image those computers and sometimes the images are absolutely plauged with issues. Try doing the same thing on a 27" iMac. It doesn't do it on your own but in our store it will always be choppy.
2.3Ghz. Also, I had a higher-end configuration MBA so maybe that accounts for the difference? But, the lag for me is signfiicantly worse on the MBPR which seems odd. There's also a lot of blurriness in the text of webpages, but I guess thats just an issue until web designers get with the times...
I unfortunately don't have Steam to test the steam store, but if there's any other website you want me to try i can. I'll record a video later if someone doesn't beat me to it (I have a very very very slow connection so hopefully someone else with the 2.3Ghz model can do this)
Damnit, noone with 2.6Ghz to try this out
Try those page with latest Chrome Canary maybe, see if lag persists with it.
Also, yeah, I'd imagine any pages that use any intricate images for layout design, will suffer with this screen for a LONG time. Same thing with anything that's using canvas or flash or unity games or whatnot. I doubt people would be jumping ahead to update websites just so that they look better on a single computer out there, no matter how popular it is.
Try those page with latest Chrome Canary maybe, see if lag persists with it.
Also, yeah, I'd imagine any pages that use any intricate images for layout design, will suffer with this screen for a LONG time. Same thing with anything that's using canvas or flash or unity games or whatnot. I doubt people would be jumping ahead to update websites just so that they look better on a single computer out there, no matter how popular it is.
This is exactly what's causing the lag you're seeing in store on the floor models. Last year I tested a 17" MacBook Pro in store and saw the same exact poor performance and lag with expose and other animations on the floor model. Ended up buying one, and upon using it at home have NEVER seen any lag whatsoever.
I'm a firm believe that it's that store concierge app they have running. I've noticed this behavior on every laptop they offer in store.
Why on earth would you do that? Yeah it uses a lot of power when indexing but that's pretty much only when you just get the computer
I guess the next logical step is for someone to try a display model at a best buy to confirm if it's the apple concierge software.
Does it really matter though? The point is it's NOT an inherent issue with the product. Buy one and you will not experience the same thing. So people worried purchasing a unit because of this thread really shouldn't be - you won't experience the same thing on your RMBP. UI transitions are fine, although Safari scrolling IS a bit laggy on my 2.3. I'm about to try Chrome Canary to find out if it's Safari - I have a hunch that it is.
Fair enough, though it can't hurt to be 100% sure when dropping 2k on a laptop.
Just tried out Chrome Canary... It is just as laggy as Safari when the page and images are loading, but once the page is completely loaded (and I assume the images are loaded into cache/RAM), then the scrolling is much smoother. I could make a video for you if you want.
The whole laggy scrolling thing is a bit annoying but nothing that makes me regret my purchase. I'm sure it will be fixed in Mountain Lion if not soon. I've experienced much worse performance on many Windows-based computers, and overall I think it's a rather small thing to be nitpicking about.
The whole laggy scrolling thing is a bit annoying but nothing that makes me regret my purchase. I'm sure it will be fixed in Mountain Lion if not soon. I've experienced much worse performance on many Windows-based computers, and overall I think it's a rather small thing to be nitpicking about.