Safari 1.2 Released

[beg_ne]

Overall I really like the newest version of Safari.

+Java Applets load faster
+Scolling is smother
+Resumable downloads
+Cool new icon for downloads with load bar!
+More specific time remaining on downloads

-No Kbps/sec indicator on downloads anymore
Id like the downloads readout to be something like (450K of 23.4MB @ 3.2KB - 3:12 remaining)

-It seems timed out downloads cannot be resumed. 🙁 Only if you press the stop button on the download can you resume. Kind of a bummer since i'm stuck on dial up and 99% of the time if a download were to fail it would be because of a time out(eg. modem was disconnected). Ah well, atleast if its a media file it can be played from what was downloaded so it's not a total loss, but redownload of the entire thing is still required.

 

[Lucky736]

Safari still sucks at Java anything. This is disappointing. I buy a new Powerbook, upgrading from my Cube, and many macs before that. 1 gig of RAM, and I can't even get a damn browser to load Java right? That's sad. MS IE for OS9 was the best mac browser, and if it wasn't for the fact that I don't care too much for OS9 I would just load it, use it, and call it a day. It's sad when I have to use MS IE, Safari, and Netscape at times just to get certain pages to load right....... I may as well use that old performa 6400-250 in the closet to surf the web, least I get a decent browser that way..........

Anyone have experience with OMNIWEB 5 yet? Good or bad?


UGH!!!!! THIS SUCKS!

 

[stingerman]

Re: Finally Fandango!

Originally posted by jshep
Still don't have banking but at least Fandango.Com is now working!!!!😀

Fandango is 10X faster now. As is Flash! This seems more like a 2.0 release.

 

[Armsreach]

Re: tabbing thru forms

Originally posted by maxtrax
Why is it that you still can't tab to a drop down menu? Does anyone care about tabbing to a link? I just want to tab thru a form without having to use the mouse for the dropdown menus. I really thought that would be addressed in this build.

<snip>

To take both sides of the issue (haven't downloaded it yet. Learned that lesson when I had final projects to finish, upgraded to 10.3.2 and suitcase wouldn't open.)....

Yes, it would be wonderful to be able to tab to dropdown menus and then to be able to type in the letters to get to various selections, like when choosing a state in a form, however, to completely write off the positive aspects of tabbing order of links is very short sighted. First off, it's an accessibility must to supply tabbing to links for those people who can't control mice all that well. Secondly, an experienced website developer can manipulate the order that the links get tabbed to using CSS so that the important links are always the first in the order, saving lots of time.

Anyone know if you can tab to links that are in mouseover menus but hidden via CSS? I doubt it, but would be a nice nifty feature.

 

[beg_ne]

Oh and BTW you can (pretty much) tab to and control combo boxes via keyboard. You have to hit the down arrow once you're tabbed to one to drop the list then you can type a key to navigate down to that point.

it seems a bit buggy/incomplete as of yet however. Sometimes it simply will not jump down to a point even though you should be able to. Also you cant cycle though entries that start with the same letter. So if there are 6 entries that start with E you have to live with whichever one it pics.

 

[Chef Ramen]

Re: Now...

Originally posted by hulugu
Panther made my old 233 iMac work faster than it had under Jaguar. I actually use it now.

too bad my equally-"fast" beige G3 is unsupported by panther because it lacks USB on the mobo. anybody know if it would work with a third-party USB PCI card? i tend to doubt it, and dont want to risk screwing this piece of **** up AGAIN, like it seems to do every few weeks, but if it would finally run well i'd be happy.

 

[WM.]

Re: Tabbing to drop-down menus

Originally posted by pwrst2
While you can tab to a drop down menu, and you can then use the arrow keys to navigate it, you *cannot* type a letter on the keyboard to select the first menu item that begins with that letter.

Assuming you're using Panther, this really should work. Arrow-key and first-letter navigation of pop-up menus was added with Panther (we had a big discussion about this in the 10.3.3/Safari 1.2 seeding thread). Since, according to posts after yours, you can get into pop-up menus without the keyboard in 1.2, you should then be able to start typing and have the selection jump down the menu...I'm downloading Safari right now and I'll give it a shot when I'm done.

(looks like posts after I started typing this have made it a bit redundant...sorry...)

WM

 

[stingerman]

Originally posted by crees!
I hate the mouse too.. but sometimes you have to give in.

What are you guys talking about, I opt-Tab through the various Bookmark Bar menus and hit the Space Bar to bring them down just fine.

Control(^)-F2 brings down the Apple menu and Tab will allow you to Tab through each menu as well.

^-F3 Takes you to the Dock and you can Tab through each Dock item.

<Space> allows you to click. <Up> and <Down> allows you to select Menu items.

 

[stingerman]

Originally posted by multifinder
It figures they wouldn't bother--Safari has less than 1 percent of the browser market. I hear it all the time at work--"no one uses Macs so that's why we don't test on them". You could write them a letter/email if you haven't already, but Macs are such a niche product it's hard to get most companies to care. Thank God for Firebird, it works with every website I need, unlike Safari--and when I want a new version I don't need to shell out $129 for an OS upgrade that for what I do on the Mac is worth maybe $1.29 to me. I love my Mac, but I hate Apple for trying to milk its fanatics for every dollar they're worth--they may make money in the short run, but IMHO in the long term they'll just become even more irrelevant.

It's true Microsoft is doing the same thing post-IE 6...but they're not exactly what I'd call the gold standard for customer service...

It's better said that Bank of America has 1% of mac users. Ignoring a market of 25 Million+ loyal and money spending prime consumers is not too business savvy. Over 30% of Adobe's revenue is from the Mac (boy that 3% market share is pretty powerful) and Macromedia derives close to 50% of their revenue from Mac users. Adobe used to be 50% as well but they lost the Video editing war to Apple's FCP and FC Express. Not to mention Apple's built in PDF support.

 

[joemama]

Tabbing does NOT work!

My access level may say Newbie but a newbie I am not. Of COURSE I tested it first - on the defacto standard - Orbitz and Expedia. - BOTH don't work.

I tried that Amazon link and same thing - does NOT tab to pulldown menus - just goes to input boxes.

...next you;ll be telling us it's because I am on a G4.

 

[stingerman]

Originally posted by stingerman
What are you guys talking about, I opt-Tab through the various Bookmark Bar menus and hit the Space Bar to bring them down just fine.

Control(^)-F2 brings down the Apple menu and Tab will allow you to Tab through each menu as well.

^-F3 Takes you to the Dock and you can Tab through each Dock item.

<Space> allows you to click. <Up> and <Down> allows you to select Menu items.

Another thing you might prefer to be on is Preferences->Keyboard->Keyboard Shortcurts->Turn on full keyboard access

In addition to creating your own keyboard shortcuts on that pane. Make sure you restart Safari to activate the new Keyboard shortcuts you create.

 

[elgruga]

Originally posted by Lucky736
Safari still sucks at Java anything. I may as well use that old performa 6400-250 in the closet to surf the web, least I get a decent browser that way..........

This kind of post helps no-one. Its inaccurate (Safari does some Java things fine).
Its negative and comes across as a TROLL.

If you are looking for perfection, look inside first.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Regarding Java 2 1.4.2 and Safari

In case you haven't read this note in developer.apple.com

http://developer.apple.com/java/index.html

Excerpt...

Please note that Java 1.4.2 will overwrite the Java 1.4.1 installation on Panther systems and is not removable. A developer package with updated headers, documentation, and tools is also available. [Feb 02 2003]

Regarding Safari 1.2. If you haven't noticed Safari 1.2 utilizes WebCore that is Objective-C++ with ObjC interfaces.

Apple has said since 1997 that it plans to wean people off of Carbon legacy and move to a pure Cocoa OO Operating System.

Expect the applications to eventually be 100% Cocoa from Apple and the operating system to drop Carbon within a 18 months or so.

Besides performance gains of having Foundation and AppKit no longer having to account for Carbon events it makes it much more streamlined to improve the OS and reduces SQA cycles on making sure any updates don't break legacy issues.

When Microsoft eventually releases Longhorn, expect the legacy folks to either upgrade or be forced to choose a new platform.

As always no one forces you to upgrade to utilize all the "Free Apps" but even in the Linux world one must update core frameworks, etc., in order to use new applications. It's a technological expectation and reality.

I for one will be ecstatic once Carbon is completely ripped from the Operating System.

Then I'll feel like I did when I worked at NeXT and Apple and was excited for the future.

 

[stingerman]

Originally posted by joemama
Tabbing does NOT work!

My access level may say Newbie but a newbie I am not. Of COURSE I tested it first - on the defacto standard - Orbitz and Expedia. - BOTH don't work.

I tried that Amazon link and same thing - does NOT tab to pulldown menus - just goes to input boxes.

...next you;ll be telling us it's because I am on a G4.

"Turn on full keyboard access" in the "Keyboard Shortcuts" of the Keyboard Preference pain works fine for me on the Orbitz site.

 

[stingerman]

Re: Regarding Java 2 1.4.2 and Safari

Originally posted by mdriftmeyer


I for one will be ecstatic once Carbon is completely ripped from the Operating System.

Then I'll feel like I did when I worked at NeXT and Apple and was excited for the future.

I recall at the WWDC 2003 Apple stated that Carbon will always be a part of OS X, it is the Procedural API of OS X and it has its place. They showed a picture where two API's (Carbon and Cocoa) would merge into one road.

I think it is a best practice to stick with OO wherever you can and go to Carbon only when constraints force you to.

 

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by Nermal
Needs Panther, doesn't run on Jaguar! 😱

thanks apple for leaving us behind again...

Come on, what gives, not EVERYONE updated yet...

Booo.

Arg, what the hell apple.

How about you want half a year before you move on to the next operating system only?

Errr.

 

[kcmac]

joemama,

Safari preferences>advanced

Then select the option using the tab key to highlight links. If the other button is selected, that uses the option+tab keys to highlight the links.

I think option+tab is the default setting.

 

[bryanzak]

Originally posted by iMeowbot
Late-model Safari uses Core Graphics functions that weren't available before Panther. Doing those features conditionally is basically the same idea as maintaining multiple branches; that's almost an invitation for additional bugs to sneak in, so it's probably for the best that they're doing things the way they are.

Not only that, but Safari is built on top of all kinds of core OS technologies like Java, WebKit, CFNetwork, Keychain (for certificate support, etc.) And all of those have dependencies on even lower layers in the OS.

Safari can't be ported back to 10.2 unless Apple were to bring a lot of those core "frameworks" back to 10.2 and that's not a trivial undertaking. It's a huge chunk of what makes Panther Panther. In fact, the time and effort is simply better spent moving the platform forward, not holding it back.

At the end of the day, do you want Apple to waste time adding new features to Jaguar (i.e. Safari 1.2) or do you want them to spend time adding new value to Safari itself? If you wanted Jaguar support as well, you could never have had 1.2 right now: it would have taken far longer to develop it for 1.2 and certify it on 1.2.

If you don't want to upgrade to Panther, fine that's your choice, but Apple shouldn't waste their time and resources (which are already spread so thin) on you then when there are much better uses for that time and those resources.

Just my two cents.

Bryan

 

[bryanzak]

The web browser is NOT part of the OS (no matter how much MS says it is). I completly understand no more features added to 10.2.x but developing software as standard as a browser for 10.2.x is a must. I am a recent switcher, and expected MUCH more from Apple... was I wrong to expect Apple to value thier customers?

Sorry if this comes across harsh, I just am amazed at the lack of support for an OS as recent as 10.2.x [/B]

Sorry, but you clearly don't understand browser technologies. They may not be part of the OS itself, but they rely on a signficant number of OS technologies. The simple fact is those dependent technologies (look at my post just before this one) are rapidly changing on Mac OS X -- each major release brings major changes to the "plumbing" of OS X. Because this plumbing changes so drastically, it's just not reasonably to trivially support something like Safari 1.2 on 10.2 and 10.3.

Microsoft actually has an advantage here due to being the more mature technology: their plumbing is much more stable from release to release simply because they've had more time to refine it. Apple's been moving at an incredible pace on OS X and this is one of those penalties for moving so fast: to move this fast means to focus on the future, not the past.

I think Apple has no choice really. They don't have thousands (literally) of engineers like MS does to throw at problems like this. Apple has to carefully allocate their engineering resources and make decisions about where to best spend the time and effort.

Is that bad? That's your judgement. In my opinion, no, it's good for the future of Mac OS X.

Bryan

 

[bryanzak]

Originally posted by Mason
Still can't use safari for MS exchange servers. I'd like to use safari to access my school's webmail, but I'm stuck with IE instead. However, ign.com seems to load properly now.

I use Safari with Exchange WebMail with no problem -- though you must turn off pop-up window blocking as that does cause problems.

Bryan

 

[Grimace]

Why so many negative ratings?? Apple has the most difficult to please audience EVER!!

 

[j33pd0g]

Did I read somewhere that you can click on a URL in mail now, and have it open in a new tab? 'Cause I'm not seeing that option.

EDIT: Never mind... I got it to work now.

 

[bryanzak]

Re: Regarding Java 2 1.4.2 and Safari

Apple has said since 1997 that it plans to wean people off of Carbon legacy and move to a pure Cocoa OO Operating System.

Apple has never said that. Never, not once.

Expect the applications to eventually be 100% Cocoa from Apple and the operating system to drop Carbon within a 18 months or so

Mod poster down.

You have no idea what you speak of. Join the carbon-dev list. Read the posts from dozens of Apple folks adding very cool new technologies like HIViews and the entire new HIFramework.

Cocoa is Apple's preferred object orientated environment.

Carbon is Apple's only C/C++ based environment.

It's safe to say that Carbon is here for the long haul. (And not only because Apple has said that, but because of all the apps that use it.)

(Now if you are confusing Carbon with CFM, that's a different thing. CFM is dead. It's a legacy technology and Apple will support it for quite a while I imagine, but all new stuff is purely mach-o and framework based.)

Besides performance gains of having Foundation and AppKit no longer having to account for Carbon events it makes it much more streamlined to improve the OS and reduces SQA cycles on making sure any updates don't break legacy issues.

OK, now you are just making things up using keywords.

I for one will be ecstatic once Carbon is completely ripped from the Operating System.

Why? Without carbon you wouldn't have any menu bars! That's right, every single Cocoa app uses the Carbon menu manager.

Carbon is nothing more than a set of C based APIs. It's also the only lightwieght GUI API on Mac OS X.

I don't think you're mean spirited or dumb or anything, but you are spreading misinformation and not painting an accurate picture.

Bryan

 

[hulugu]

Re: Re: Now...

Originally posted by Chef Ramen
too bad my equally-"fast" beige G3 is unsupported by panther because it lacks USB on the mobo. anybody know if it would work with a third-party USB PCI card? i tend to doubt it, and dont want to risk screwing this piece of **** up AGAIN, like it seems to do every few weeks, but if it would finally run well i'd be happy.

No unfortunately to run Panther a machine must have had original USB, my sysadmin has an old Wallstreet Powerbook without USB and he can't get Panther to run at all, it simply refuses to install.

 

[wwworry]

still no contextual menu "back" item
so firebird it remains