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Samsung Executive Calls Apple vs. Samsung Ruling 'Worst Scenario for Us'
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Engadget has an excellent editorial piece on the implications of this decision. I think they sum it up far better than I ever could. Well worth a read if you like intelligent, informed opinion.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/25/editorial-engadget-on-the-apple-vs-samsung-ruling/
http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/25/editorial-engadget-on-the-apple-vs-samsung-ruling/
You apparently believe there's no other way to make a smartphone?
And if that's the case, why shouldn't Apple get royalties for coming up with the one true way to make a smartphone?
Mucking Forons, *DUH*
Apparently, the patent office didn't think so.
Indeed. And when the patent office awards Google the patent for the notification bar, I'm guessing we will all be cheering for Google when they use the patent to sue apple for the notification center, right?
What would lead you to think anyone here likes those?
The triumph of hope over experience
You have to love the extreme views that always get posted here. It's either:
(a) It's so obvious Samsung never had an original thought and they need to pay through the nose for copying Apple's ideas, and anyone who can't see this is an idiot, OR
(b) All Apple's patents are ridiculous and this is doomsday for the consumer, and anyone who can't see this is an idiot.
Does no one else think that protecting intellectual property and encouraging further innovation is a really complex issue, with more grey than black and white? If no one can protect their ideas, there is little financial incentive to innovate in the first place (apart from being first to market with something—but that is never going to protect the little guy from big companies with the resources to copy and implement an idea within months). On the other hand, if every nuance of an implementation is patented, people can't evolve the ideas of others (which is the cornerstone of all technological progress), and everything comes to a grinding halt amid the endless lawsuits.
I tend to agree that it's a shame Apple have been awarded some questionable patents. On the other hand, I have a lot of respect for the designers at Apple who really did bring so many great ideas together with the iPhone, while I don't believe the word 'innovation' so aptly applies to Samsung. I'd like to see Apple appropriately awarded for their creativity and innovation (and looking at their cash reserves, perhaps they already have been?), but I don't like the anti-competitive spirit that seems also to be on display.
I'm not sure what the answer is.
(a) It's so obvious Samsung never had an original thought and they need to pay through the nose for copying Apple's ideas, and anyone who can't see this is an idiot, OR
(b) All Apple's patents are ridiculous and this is doomsday for the consumer, and anyone who can't see this is an idiot.
Does no one else think that protecting intellectual property and encouraging further innovation is a really complex issue, with more grey than black and white? If no one can protect their ideas, there is little financial incentive to innovate in the first place (apart from being first to market with something—but that is never going to protect the little guy from big companies with the resources to copy and implement an idea within months). On the other hand, if every nuance of an implementation is patented, people can't evolve the ideas of others (which is the cornerstone of all technological progress), and everything comes to a grinding halt amid the endless lawsuits.
I tend to agree that it's a shame Apple have been awarded some questionable patents. On the other hand, I have a lot of respect for the designers at Apple who really did bring so many great ideas together with the iPhone, while I don't believe the word 'innovation' so aptly applies to Samsung. I'd like to see Apple appropriately awarded for their creativity and innovation (and looking at their cash reserves, perhaps they already have been?), but I don't like the anti-competitive spirit that seems also to be on display.
I'm not sure what the answer is.
I absolutely agree these "brilliant dillusions" are more common then one might think. But in case like this, I can't believe that sammy would be shocked at all. It went on for so long, they were warned many times, & they knew they were stealing patents. To be shocked at the outcome is ludicrous.
Btw, learn and apply what to my life?
I had a mid 2006 HP iPAQ, I can go dig it out of the basement and find the exact model number tomorrow or tuesday if you want. I have not seen it in a few years.
But, it had the following.
MMS
GPS with voice activation
full touch screen ( it had a pen, but I never used it )
3G
Third Party Apps.
The first iPhone did NOT have 3G, it did NOT have Third Party Apps, it had sub standard hardware, it did NOT have GPS, and it could not send or receive pictures.
The only " new " thing about it was the multi touch. The first iPhone was a feature phone, Not a smart phone.
It was not until Apple unlocked iOS for alot of third party developers, added MMS, 3G, and GPS and Maps, then it became a true smart phone, and it went totally insane ( the first iPhone was actually sales wise, worse than RIM's numbers ). And once it became a real smart phone, with the 3/3GS. Thats when I bought my 3GS. And I used that until I had a crappy freebie from sprint ( they just mailed it to me without asking, I used that for a few months, it sucked ), then I went to a S3. If Apple can impress with the Next iPhone, I'll buy that. But I don't see that happening. Apple impressed me with the 3/3GS, and thats why I bought one, I always buy what impresses me.
And yes Windows Mobile 5, supported its own full fledged web browser, as well as many third party options. So did RIM, and so did Palm.
I am NOT denying that Apple made some great products, they have. But to think they were the first onto the smart phone market is insane, RIM, Palm, and Microsoft laid lots of the groundwork for the smartphone explosion.
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I wouldn't call them a well informed jury. They had no touch development experience, and they didn't ask any questions about the patent.
Heck, those jurors knew far less than many regulars in this forum do, since the latter have been debating these topics for the past five years.
As for me, I started programming with touchpads in 1982, working my way up to capacitive touch screens ten years later, and mobile touch devices before the turn of the century.
Apple does not have a patent on pinch-to-zoom itself. What they managed to get was a vaguely worded patent about being able to discern the difference between one finger scrolling and multi-finger gestures.
Here is the exact patent claim that Apple sought a $2 royalty for, and which reporters keep calling the "pinch zoom patent". Note that all the conditions must be met to infringe:
"8. A machine readable storage medium storing executable program instructions which when executed cause a data processing system to perform a method comprising: receiving a user input, the user input is one or more input points applied to a touch-sensitive display that is integrated with the data processing system; creating an event object in response to the user input; determining whether the event object invokes a scroll or gesture operation by distinguishing between a single input point applied to the touch-sensitive display that is interpreted as the scroll operation and two or more input points applied to the touch-sensitive display that are interpreted as the gesture operation; issuing at least one scroll or gesture call based on invoking the scroll or gesture operation; responding to at least one scroll call, if issued, by scrolling a window having a view associated with the event object; and responding to at least one gesture call, if issued, by scaling the view associated with the event object based on receiving the two or more input points in the form of the user input."
Apple's acquired Fingerworks in 2005 and applied for patent protection of their work that year. Jeff Hans and fingerworks systems use very different methods of detecting the touches. So very different Implementations, which would explain how it's gone to court but Apple patents survived.
I would certainly recommend the following video from TED. It certainly made me think about things a little more.
http://www.ted.com/talks/kirby_ferguson_embrace_the_remix.html
Let me save you a bunch of pointless grief: I finally left Android for the iPhone 4s last December, and it was like taking the clothespins off my eyelids - there is NO COMPARISON in the quality of the user experience between Android & iOS. When I see people bashing Apple, I just figure that most or all of them were NOT iOS users who switched to Android in frustration...I've never actually met one of these. On the other hand, I know several completely satisfied Android-to-iOS switchers. If you still want to do this, PLEASE go try an Android phone for a couple hours first. I bet you won't be able to bring yourself to switch.
I would never want to see a complete lack of competition in any sector, but tell me this: if we could only have ONE mobile platform, is there a single one of you that would seriously choose Android over iOS? SERIOUSLY??
Everything is obvious at the end... the problem is to "come up" with these "obvious" things
It's like when you learn an amazing magic trick. After you do, you can't believe how simple and obvious it is. But before, you were astounded.
Apparently you know what's in peeps heads.
YES, I WOULD SWITCH. If that means I can have a Galaxy S3 with the Apple app store and....no force closing!
Meet one. I have no problems really with the iPhone 4 which I own or iOS. But I love my Samsung Skyrocket that I've used since Feb. I use it 90 percent of the time and there are pluses and minuses to each phone. The one biggest thing that makes the Skyrocket (for me) my primary phone and far more usable now is the screen. While the 4 has a GREAT screen - it's small now in comparison. Almost to the point of unusable. After using a bigger screen for awhile, the iPhone 4 screen just looks and reads tiny. My .02 and my use case. I understand other people have different experiences.
When I switched I thought it might only be for 30 days. I've read and heard all the Android bashing and quite frankly - for me and my use case - it seems completely unfounded. Both phones have had glitches, crashes, app issues, etc - and on par with each other. To each their own.
"You're holding it the wrong way!"
What does that sophomoric comment have to do with this topic ?
I never said Apple invented the smartphone.
The fact that we're talking about the direction smartphones were moving to is proof that they already existed before the iPhone.
And speaking of direction... is the lone LG Prada out of hundreds of other phones an indicator of the "what's to come" in smartphones? I fail to see the correlation.
The LG Prada wasn't even a smartphone. It DID have a capacitive touch screen... so bravo to LG for that.
But the mere existence of the LG Prada does NOT prove the "what's to come" that you stated earlier. The LG Prada was NOT the reason all smartphones eventually got touchscreens, multitouch, pinch-to-zoom, rubberbanding, etc.
I don't think ANY manufacturer looked at the LG Prada and said "Eureka! This is the next generation of smartphone!"
You say Apple popularized the touchscreen smartphone. Well... isn't that exactly what we're talking about?
Everybody was making crappy QWERTY smartphones... then Apple drops the iPhone onto the world... and only THEN does everyone else start making touchscreen smartphones.
See that? Smartphones changed AFTER the iPhone.
I still see NO proof that smartphones would have evolved to full touchscreens, pinch-to-zoom and all that other stuff if it wasn't for the iPhone.
I can give LG credit for having the first capacitive touchscreen on a dumbphone... but that's about it.
Everything else in the supposed "what's to come" category can be credited to the iPhone.
To go back to your earlier comment... Apple didn't predict "what's to come" as much as they stormed ahead and showed everyone else what to do
Which is really sad because the other guys have been making phones for years... while Apple was the new guy.
I've got a friends who made the switch to the S2 or the S3 and are very happy with it. I would prefer to stay with the iPhone but I'm really not liking the mockups of the tall iPhone 5. If it looks that bad in the flesh so to speak I'm seriously going to have to think about whether to switch or not.
It's not an essential component. The only reason you think it is, is because its so widely accepted as the standard. Truth is, apple patented it, and its theirs. Samsung can use many other methods to zoom. tap and drag, a zoom button, etc. They better think of something. Apple is setting standards that are becoming so popular, and second nature, that u think that's the way it should be for every other device. Gonna be a tough road ahead for Sammy.
This might be the worst for Samsung, but consumers will be impacted in a negative way as well.
Most will live in denial till they feel the pain. Then their gloating & cheering may cease so fast, it will shake some to the core. Others, not so much.
Most will live in denial till they feel the pain. Then their gloating & cheering may cease so fast, it will shake some to the core. Others, not so much.
It's time to expand the claim
It's time to expand the claim based on the win, to those patent claims dismissed without prejudice to simplify the trial.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/15521811/
"In pre-trial motions the judge insisted Apple narrow its patent claims from dozens to a couple of the "top 5", to "simplify the trial". That reduced the award amount by at least 100%.
The $1B award is literally trivial for Samsung and Apple, and especially how much both parties have invested in legal expenses. This is, after all is said and done, a PR outcome far more than a monetary one."
There were dozens of claims all of which would have similar damages that could be awarded based on the result of the first case.
That said, this case is far from over on other grounds anyway.
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120822133019225
The only winner in a lawsuit is the lawyers on both sides.
Rocketman
It's time to expand the claim based on the win, to those patent claims dismissed without prejudice to simplify the trial.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/15521811/
"In pre-trial motions the judge insisted Apple narrow its patent claims from dozens to a couple of the "top 5", to "simplify the trial". That reduced the award amount by at least 100%.
The $1B award is literally trivial for Samsung and Apple, and especially how much both parties have invested in legal expenses. This is, after all is said and done, a PR outcome far more than a monetary one."
There were dozens of claims all of which would have similar damages that could be awarded based on the result of the first case.
That said, this case is far from over on other grounds anyway.
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120822133019225
The only winner in a lawsuit is the lawyers on both sides.
Rocketman
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