Conversely - if you don't think that Apple is looking at what the industry or rumors are swirling around other companies (like Samsung) are up to - you're also naive.
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Samsung Reveals Galaxy S5 With Home Button Fingerprint Sensor, Accompanying 'Gear Fit' Band
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Conversely - if you don't think that Apple is looking at what the industry or rumors are swirling around other companies (like Samsung) are up to - you're also naive.
Yeap, sums up what I've said about you already. I would call you ignorant actually. Makes me laugh how people believe multi nationals build products after reading Mac Rumors story's hahaha.
Didn't you know - they don't need to read rumors. Since they produce chips for Apple - they know everything about every device - including OS changes and design changes. Because you can tell EVERYTHING about a device by the chip
Didn't you know - they don't need to read rumors. Since they produce chips for Apple - they know everything about every device - including OS changes and design changes. Because you can tell EVERYTHING about a device by the chip
Oh yeah, I forgot that one, I read a post on here somewhere stating and defending that very fact. That's fall of your chair laughing that one is...
You seemed to have totally neglected my post where i have strongly refuted the useage of the word "copy". Did you notice the mass introduction of portable mp3 players post ipod success? Was that due to everyone else working on portable mp3 players all along or was it because the ipod showed the industry the way of how things are done? Their were tablets and "slate" like devices in existence before the iPad...Yet all these nexus, samsung galaxy pads we see post iPad owe their existence to a market which apple essentially created. OEM's take notice when a big brand such as google or apple make strategic acquisitions. They look to see where these companies are heading and plan accordingly. The writing was on the wall when authentech was acquired for 380 million dollars. The fact that HTC and Samsung introduce biometrics into their devices was not because they had been working on it for "years" like others (motorola, LG etc) but because apple implemented it so successfully that these brands felt that their customers would demand or "like to have" a similar level of biometric integration. They then scrambled to licence or procure what ever technology was available. If you read the news storied post-5s launch you can dig up someone from samsung that claimed that authentech had a clear lead in the capacitive touch technology and that it would take a year two for the number 2 and number 3 players in this tech to catch up to authentec's work. The likes of Samsung passed on authentech's smart sensor, and could have licensed it (as fujitsu did) if they saw utility in it...apple did and they lapped the entire company to gain a "strategic advantage".
Despite its unreal size, Samsung of South Korea is an extremely agile company, one that moves at a blistering pace. The conglomerate has been called many things and is perhaps best-known as a fast-follower. The press attached that nickname to the Samsung brand due to the company’s ability to swiftly apply what others are doing to its own lineup and flood the market with countless products with small variations to them.
For example, Samsung announced its own gold Galaxy S4 variants merely two weeks following Apple’s September 10 iPhone 5s/5c keynote. And just 48 hours into Apple’s double iPhone announcement, Samsung co-CEO Kim Yoo-chul was quick to confirm his company’s next smartphones will have 64-bit processing functionality, even if “not in the shortest time”.
But now, Samsung has incomprehensibly decided to sit on the sidelines and watch instead how this fingerprint scanning thing on mobile unfolds…
Samsung exec who spoke to The Korea Herald maintains the company isn’t interested in adding fingerprint scanning technology to its next major Galaxy device (Galaxy S5, anyone?) because it considers the technology to be in its early stages “and unnecessary for its current lineup of devices”.
For now, the company will rely on the Knox software for added security.
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2013/09/26/samsung-no-fingerprint-sensor/
You do not need to go and design a finger-print sensor. You go out and licence one and build it or use one that is already offered by a third company. Authentech was essentially making finger-print sensors both swipe and capacitive for other cell phone makers to use..LG, Motorola and Fujitsu all used their sensors instead of going into a lab and asking their own engineers to make sensors for their phones. Guess who samsung wanted to hire to do security for their mobile devices? It was the good old Authentech...I believe authentech's NFC efforts have also wound up in most brands (samsung, LG and the likes)...
Following apple's 5s launch the swedish firm, Fingerprint Cards AB claimed it was in talks with several OEM's that wanted solutions for biometric sensors on their devices. Rapid adoption of technology into electronic devices is usually through licencing tech into your device from a company that is an expert in this field, unless you have the vision and the pocket to lap up a company which was clearly the DOMINANT company in its line of business such as authentech..
Currently, Crucialtec is known as the only Korean company specializing in fingerprint scanners for smartphones.
“Samsung has to rely on the company for fingerprint functions, but its technology level is still behind Authentec in terms of patents and solutions. It will take a year more for the company to supply stable technology,” said Seoul-based Woori Investment & Securities analyst Kim Hye-yong. Apple acquired Authentec, a mobile security solutions company, last year for the fingerprint sensor on the iPhone 5S.
Currently, Pantech’s Vega LTE-A uses Crucialtec’s swipe-type technology. The iPhone 5S’ area type is known to be more accurate and faster though the size still remains a challenge to overcome.
Crucialtec may have developed the technologies to a certain level as it has experiences working with Authentec in the past. The company has been building references through Pantech and some Chinese handset makers to ultimately supply to Samsung, an industry source said.
“Samsung will certainly adopt the fingerprint technologies down the road. Fingerprint scanners are a trend rather than a necessity. There seems to be few things that can be added to handsets. Smartphone makers now face an innovation hurdle,” Hyundai Securities’ researcher Yoon Jung-sun said.
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130925000840
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Samsung Reveals Galaxy S5 With Home Button Fingerprint Sensor, Accompanying '...
Where did I say that HTC copied Apple? That's right I didn't, it only reads that way in your head, not my problem. I looked on Google and there's many reviews from various sites all saying the HTC fingerprint scanner was rubbish, ergo failure. Additionally the fact that pretty much no one really knew about the HTC having a fingerprint scanner on one of their devices screams they failed. I'm a big tech geek, but I also have a life so I don't know every single model of phone ever released. If you do, you need to get out more.
Apple have implemented it well, as the scanner reads fingerprints much better than the existing tech and even samsungs S5. So that, for starters, is how apple has done it right. As for bypassing apples Touch ID, do you mean that impractical way back at the tail end of last year that went around? If so, man you are desperate! As that's not a real world way to bypass it.
I'm not the one ignoring rational evidence and now you're hurt and all huffy about it like a child. Additionally I don't just read macrumors, I read varying sites, but since you appear to know me so well, you should know that surely....
Apple aren't perfect, there's many things they don't do right. Just for a start, Bluetooth file transfer and airdrop not being compatible between mac and iOS. So as I say, I'm not claiming the sun shines out of apples perfectly crafted buttocks.
I'll leave you to your histrionics.
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Never said that they didn't. It's just some people around here seem naive or just don't like to be wrong. I'd say Samsung are lower into the curb, what with them faking reviews and forum posts....
I'm ignorant! Ha. Wow. You definitely are naive. Santa isn't real you know too.
Can you honestly say that you are certain Samsung does not pay attention to rumours, hiring news, analyst reports and even tech sites/forums for information, even after knowing that Samsung have been fined for posing fake posts on forums/comments on sites along with fake reviews?
Where did I say that HTC copied Apple? That's right I didn't, it only reads that way in your head, not my problem. I looked on Google and there's many reviews from various sites all saying the HTC fingerprint scanner was rubbish, ergo failure. Additionally the fact that pretty much no one really knew about the HTC having a fingerprint scanner on one of their devices screams they failed. I'm a big tech geek, but I also have a life so I don't know every single model of phone ever released. If you do, you need to get out more.
Apple have implemented it well, as the scanner reads fingerprints much better than the existing tech and even samsungs S5. So that, for starters, is how apple has done it right. As for bypassing apples Touch ID, do you mean that impractical way back at the tail end of last year that went around? If so, man you are desperate! As that's not a real world way to bypass it.
I'm not the one ignoring rational evidence and now you're hurt and all huffy about it like a child. Additionally I don't just read macrumors, I read varying sites, but since you appear to know me so well, you should know that surely....
Apple aren't perfect, there's many things they don't do right. Just for a start, Bluetooth file transfer and airdrop not being compatible between mac and iOS. So as I say, I'm not claiming the sun shines out of apples perfectly crafted buttocks.
I'll leave you to your histrionics.
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Never said that they didn't. It's just some people around here seem naive or just don't like to be wrong. I'd say Samsung are lower into the curb, what with them faking reviews and forum posts....
I'm ignorant! Ha. Wow. You definitely are naive. Santa isn't real you know too.
Can you honestly say that you are certain Samsung does not pay attention to rumours, hiring news, analyst reports and even tech sites/forums for information, even after knowing that Samsung have been fined for posing fake posts on forums/comments on sites along with fake reviews?
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So, first you state you refuted the usage of the word 'copy', then you state that HTC and Samsung ONLY put finger print scanners on their devices BECAUSE of Apples success, and lets not forget in HTC's case this is 2 months, because their is NO WAY HTC would know, how apparently 'Apple successfully implemented the tech' until AFTER the iPhone 5S was launched.
Very contradictory, and forget the rest of your post as it has nothing to do with what we are discussing.
woah calm down.
I think you got worked up
Influenced by is NOT the same as Copying. Never read this guy say they're copycats, just that its likely that there was a change in direction of the industry towards fingerprint scanners in devices because of the way Apple managed to do theirs.
I think that its a fair assumption. I dont think he's claiming at all that Apple wasn't influenced either by previous devices and that they didn't exist.
I think you were confusing it for a few confused folk a few pages back.
No, if you think for one second a company the size of Samsung makes products based on fan websites, then I can't help you. They read analyst reports and monitor company buy outs and try to find out about contracts. They are a bit more professional in how to read the market, then reading Mac Rumors. I would imagine what selective text you read on Mac Rumors, they get the entire report sent to them, or they would have means to get it I would think.
Macrumors are not exclusively reporting the rumours/news etc, hell a lot of it is getting into the general proper news sites too. also macrumours isn't a fan website, it's a tech news site, there's a difference. how can you claim they are professional when they've been fined for going on tech sites comments/forums and posting fake posts. The rumours being reported come from sources, they know this. It's no different than analyst reports.
Samsung themselves claimed that they hadn't anything on their own R&D plate that would yeild a scanner in a few months. They had to go out and get the tech probably from the companies cited by the Koreaherald report.
Its entirely possible that HTC could have hustled and found a place for the scanner on the MAX given that the sensor used by them was marketed by more than one company (probably 3 or 4) and they could have sourced it from anywhere in a short time given that the production runs for the MAX are not giant. This could explain why it is so poorly implemented and totally "not well thought out". In fact HTC have made the same mistake with its implementation that motorola did with the atrix by placing it in the back. Majority of its customers would probably end up swiping the camera on the way to the scanner.
The HTC One MAX's scanner is actually a validity/synaptic scanner mass produced by them for various markets and products (Laptops mostly) and is in no way something designed by this company from scratch for the MAX or any mobile product. GS5's swipe sensor is probably the first product that they have designed specificly for mobile phone application and this is the reason its implementation is much better than that of the HTC One MAX's sensor.
HTC One Max review: A fingerprint scanner that just doesn't work
http://www.financialexpress.com/new...erprint-scanner-that-just-doesnt-work/1210350
Reacting and doing so quickly to changing market dynamics is a legitimate business strategy in most businesses and especially mobile computing, phones and consumer electronics where a few months late could kill the market prospective. I think the 5s announcement was perfect for HTC given that they were probably in the design stage of a phablet and could source a more widely available biometric technology from multiple sources to be the first android device post 5s launch to offer such a feature. The rumours which suggest that the One M8 (one replacement) will not have a finger print sensor probably shows HTC is taking its time to develop a more competent solution for a later date.
The rest of my post showed how companies do not have to scramble their own engineering and R&D teams ( the scenario that you seem to suggest) to take months to come up with a technology solution that matches or bests the other company that has just introduced a new feature. Its much easier to go out and source the "solution" from a company that specializes in such a product so that you get it quickly and on time. This is a very common practice in computers and electronics. HTC's sensor is a validity sensor that was already in mass production months before (if not years) it was put into the MAX..HTC just sourced it and found a spot for it in the back (a poor choice, but clearly a compromise for a company that could benefit from the rushed implementation)
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Researching the matter further i can point out that the HTC max's finger print sensor was made by Validity (a Synaptics company). Validity was acquired by Synaptics soon after the launch of apple's 5s. Synaptics is also rumoured to have worked with samsung although it is not known whether they supply the swipe scanner on the GS5 or not.
Synaptics is now looking to incorporate fingerprint sensors directly into the glass of the screen, which probably spurred rumours of this feature being present on the GS5. Apple is also working on such a system and apparently has patents to the same effect.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13...-to-take-on-apples-authentec-touch-id-feature
NOTE: This news report strongly suggests that synaptics is the effort behind samsung's finger print scanner, and it seems that this company has made quite an effort in this dommain since making some strategic acquisitions in october of 2013.
Needham & Company analyst Rajvindra Gill reiterated a Buy rating and $70 price target on Synaptics (NASDAQ: SYNA) Tuesday after Samsung unveiled its Galaxy S5 in Barcelona last night. The analyst said the GS5 is likely the first of many fingerprint-enabled smartphones that Synaptics will be included in.
http://www.streetinsider.com/Analys...More+to+Come+-+Needham+&+Company/9211814.html
Synaptics is now looking to incorporate fingerprint sensors directly into the glass of the screen, which probably spurred rumours of this feature being present on the GS5. Apple is also working on such a system and apparently has patents to the same effect.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13...-to-take-on-apples-authentec-touch-id-feature
NOTE: This news report strongly suggests that synaptics is the effort behind samsung's finger print scanner, and it seems that this company has made quite an effort in this dommain since making some strategic acquisitions in october of 2013.
Needham & Company analyst Rajvindra Gill reiterated a Buy rating and $70 price target on Synaptics (NASDAQ: SYNA) Tuesday after Samsung unveiled its Galaxy S5 in Barcelona last night. The analyst said the GS5 is likely the first of many fingerprint-enabled smartphones that Synaptics will be included in.
http://www.streetinsider.com/Analys...More+to+Come+-+Needham+&+Company/9211814.html
Here is a neat video of Validity showing off its finger print scanner retro fitted onto the Galaxy S2 for demonstration purposes. This was done around Jan 2013..Companies were sleeping when engineers and leaders in companies like validity were saying that writing is on the WALL and someone needs to come and give us the dollars to catch up to authentec's capacitive technology as apple will be putting it onto its devices...Unfortunately it seems most did not bother till much later in 2013 (closer to Q3 and Q4) so finger print sensors which are simpler to use (finger that need not be swiped or finger that can be placed on the sensor in any orientation either on saphire home button or screen) would not be available to android OEM's till perhaps 2015. Synaptics played their cards right and acquired validity before an OEM could do the same (Someone like a samsung or LG) and will no have a virtual monopoly on mass prouced custom sensors for the likes of HTC, LG, Samsung going forward (now that authentech is out of the picture)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esnuP_iJTzY
Here is a patent application done by apple for the touch ID and other matters..Interestingly there is a patent about incorporating the biometrics right into the screen as mentioned by me earlier.
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patent...ication-built-right-into-the-home-button.html
This just goes to show what the "strategic acquisition" of authentec by apple allowed them to acheive and how it has revived an application and an entire industry with OEM's looking for at par or better solutions and more strategic acquisitions happening to provide these companies. It puts the entire debate about "Apple not innovating, or stagnating as a company" into prospective.
And this was just an S varient can't wait for the industry to react and re-position assets (Both phone makers and peer companies) as they evaluate apple's plans with primesense.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/shelisrael/2013/11/25/why-would-apple-buy-primesense/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esnuP_iJTzY
Here is a patent application done by apple for the touch ID and other matters..Interestingly there is a patent about incorporating the biometrics right into the screen as mentioned by me earlier.
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patent...ication-built-right-into-the-home-button.html
This just goes to show what the "strategic acquisition" of authentec by apple allowed them to acheive and how it has revived an application and an entire industry with OEM's looking for at par or better solutions and more strategic acquisitions happening to provide these companies. It puts the entire debate about "Apple not innovating, or stagnating as a company" into prospective.
And this was just an S varient
can't wait for the industry to react and re-position assets (Both phone makers and peer companies) as they evaluate apple's plans with primesense.http://www.forbes.com/sites/shelisrael/2013/11/25/why-would-apple-buy-primesense/
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Sam, you can't be possibly surprised to be accused of being Anti-Apple. I know, you would like to see yourself as being 'Neutral', 'Tech Agnostic', etc.
But you in particular don't come across that way. Personally, I find you one of the most annoying forums members here. Blocking you doesn't matter, because you are posting so much (you seem to have incredible much time available during normal working hours) that it will generate tons of replies anyway.
Here is what I find annoying, what I pointed out previously: whenever there is a controversial thread, and some hardcore
Fanboys post some nonsense, you will jump in and engage, if not attack them, in a kind of patronizing way. However, whenever I see some nonsense replies in terms of being Anti, you will *NEVER* *EVER*, engaging them. If people start to criticize Samsung, you will *ALWAYS* have a defending position and your poor keyboard will have an extremely busy day.
There are good things about Samsung phones and there are not so good things about them. However, it seems here in this forum one can hardly point out some of the shortcomings, without getting 'engaged'.
Does Samsung really need your help? I mean, a company which has been proven to be involved in numerous corruption scandals, artificially inflating benchmarks, paying people to criticize other companies in forums, etc, etc ?
If I didn't do you justice, please forgive me. But maybe you should think over your attitude.
But as a general remark, I find these Apple vs. Samsung threads increasingly tiring. Some people are not interested in other companies besides Apple here (which is fine, because it is an Apple Rumor site after all) and other forum members are interested in other tech companies as well. I personal belong to the latter, but I have to wonder why this focusing on Samsung? I personally think they are given way too much credit
Talking about phones in the Android World, there are equal, more interesting, if not better alternatives out there. But probably they don't have the 'controversial factor', which generates clicks.
Sam, you can't be possibly surprised to be accused of being Anti-Apple. I know, you would like to see yourself as being 'Neutral', 'Tech Agnostic', etc.
But you in particular don't come across that way. Personally, I find you one of the most annoying forums members here. Blocking you doesn't matter, because you are posting so much (you seem to have incredible much time available during normal working hours) that it will generate tons of replies anyway.
Here is what I find annoying, what I pointed out previously: whenever there is a controversial thread, and some hardcore
If people start to criticize Samsung, you will *ALWAYS* have a defending position and your poor keyboard will have an extremely busy day.
There are good things about Samsung phones and there are not so good things about them. However, it seems here in this forum one can hardly point out some of the shortcomings, without getting 'engaged'.
Does Samsung really need your help? I mean, a company which has been proven to be involved in numerous corruption scandals, artificially inflating benchmarks, paying people to criticize other companies in forums, etc, etc ?
If I didn't do you justice, please forgive me. But maybe you should think over your attitude.
But as a general remark, I find these Apple vs. Samsung threads increasingly tiring. Some people are not interested in other companies besides Apple here (which is fine, because it is an Apple Rumor site after all) and other forum members are interested in other tech companies as well. I personal belong to the latter, but I have to wonder why this focusing on Samsung? I personally think they are given way too much credit
Talking about phones in the Android World, there are equal, more interesting, if not better alternatives out there. But probably they don't have the 'controversial factor', which generates clicks.
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't need to rethink my attitude. There's little need for me to jump on android stupidity on here because so many people are chomping at the bit to do that already. However - there's fewer people who will correct the crap that's spewed about Android or Samsung or Google because, this IS an Apple biased (and rightfully so) forum. Does Samsung need my help? No. But Apple doesn't need those that "refuse" to speak ill about them and bash every single company out there "just because" they aren't Apple.
It really is tedious. (addressing the last section of your posts). I like the fact that I can come here and not have to bounce around to other sites to get some additional tech news. Samsung gets the most "news" because they are most likely the largest competition for Apple. And yes - it's linkbait.
Also - I think you and others confuse being tech agnostic with having opinions. I am, indeed, tech agnostic. I own 2 iMacs, a MacBook Pro, iPhone 5, iPod Touch, 2 Apple TVs and an iPad (original). I also own 2 Samsung TVs, a Roku, a Chromebook, a Samsung S4 and HP laptop (to name most of my tech). Point is - I buy based on my needs regardless of who makes what. I am not only in one "camp." I don't believe any one device is best for all - but that the devices I bought are best for me. I think several companies offer great products, software, solutions and experiences and I am glad there is a choice to choose from.
That's a large part of my tech agnostic belief. It doesn't mean I will post "fairly" or balance my posts to make sure that for every + I have an - or that I even measure any metric of my postings.
I hope that clears things up on being "neutral" or "tech agnostic".
Others invented the finger print scanner, some put it in their phones ... BUT ... for whatever reason it failed to catch on with the consumer ... then sort of got forgotten about.
Apple obviously took a look at the technology and have now implemented in a way that's both appealing and being used by millions of consumers.
That is the point here, many are trying to explain this to you but you don't seem to get it.
Basically, kudos to Apple for taking 'another' technology and implementing it in a way that's appealing to many consumers. And since Apple has brought light to it, and done it reasonably well.
BOO to Samsung and all the others sure to follow for riding Apple's shirt tails again on a job that Apple has done well enough to be a usable and desirable feature to millions of consumers.
Apple didn't invent a gold colored phone either. But they did introduce the gold color with the 5S. Quite a few people liked it, the phone was hard to find for a while. Oddly, soon after this Samsung and now HTC offer a gold colored phone ... riding Apple's shirt tails again, lol.
That's Samsung's MO in every industry they enter. Ask the Japanese.
IMO of course.
Carsten Haitzler, aka Raster, one of the better known developers on Tizen and employed by Samsung even admits that as a company they like to play it safe and follow the lead of others. (IRC log #tizen - highlighting mine)
Also don't forget the Samsung document from 2010 which shows their innovative approach to product development: http://allthingsd.com/20120807/sams...ld-be-better-if-it-were-more-like-the-iphone/
Also don't forget the Samsung document from 2010 which shows their innovative approach to product development: http://allthingsd.com/20120807/sams...ld-be-better-if-it-were-more-like-the-iphone/
iTouch is so seamless. I wake my iPhone up the same as always.
The S4 fingerprint sensor is nowhere near as intuitive.
The S4 fingerprint sensor is nowhere near as intuitive.
In a way samsung also wakes up as always..instead of swiping sideways, you swipe vertically
good luck unlocking the phone with one hand, when that requires the thumb or finger to be aligned , flat and moved at a constant speed.
Don't worry fella, I'll watch you shoot that goalpost far far far far far far far far far far far far far far off into the distance once Apple launch a big screen iPhone
Whatever I'm not going to buy an iPhone with a ridiculously huge 5.5" display ....
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As you can easily check I didn't name calling to anyone ... I'm just amazed on how much time someone spend on a forum regarding a brand they hate so much .... I can't see myself spending hours on a Samsung forum l....
I never said Apple does everything first. Should try reading the comment again. I just find it funny that it took them longer than Apple to release, yet it looks worse.
I guess no one here has worked in any research&development department...
Looking at what the competitors are doing is an essential part. For expample in order to decide what you spend resources on - it's called "Benchmark"
If something can't be patented, anyone's free to use/copy it.
Back on topic:
I really like the Phase-detection-AF on the S5 and hope Apple combines it with their f2.0 Aperture lens in the iPhone6
That should give a really awesome camera - fast and good in lowlight situation!
And once again rather than having a HR-sensor i would prefer ANT+ compatibility so you can use prober HR-sensors from third party!
Looking at what the competitors are doing is an essential part. For expample in order to decide what you spend resources on - it's called "Benchmark"
If something can't be patented, anyone's free to use/copy it.
Back on topic:
I really like the Phase-detection-AF on the S5 and hope Apple combines it with their f2.0 Aperture lens in the iPhone6
That should give a really awesome camera - fast and good in lowlight situation!
And once again rather than having a HR-sensor i would prefer ANT+ compatibility so you can use prober HR-sensors from third party!
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It's not fair to compare Samsung numbers with Apple numbers remember, Samsung compete with a lot more companies