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Schiller to Demo Snow Leopard at Macworld?

Eddyisgreat said:
We get it-you don't appreciate Apple's OS Lifecycle, but what can any of us do? I paid to upgrade my old MBP to Leopard while my new MBP came with leopard, and I'll probably wait in line for Snow Leopard unless I can snag a copy from work for "testing" reasons.
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If I was in that precise position, I would file a lawsuit against them in small claims court against them for failing to meet the 'general fitness' test for merchantability. At the time of sale, they provided security updates, and they did not disclose that they were going to yank them from you in 17 months when they had another product to sell you. And 17 months is not a reasonable time for them to provide updates, which is necessary to use the product for one of its primary purposes: accessing the Internet.

Let them come and explain themselves to a few dozen people in court, and they will reconsider their policy.
 
Amdahl said:
If I was in that precise position, I would file a lawsuit against them in small claims court against them for failing to meet the 'general fitness' test for merchantability. At the time of sale, they provided security updates, and they did not disclose that they were going to yank them from you in 17 months when they had another product to sell you. And 17 months is not a reasonable time for them to provide updates, which is necessary to use the product for one of its primary purposes: accessing the Internet.

Let them come and explain themselves to a few dozen people in court, and they will reconsider their policy.
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You can take Apple to court :rolleyes:, I'll give them $129 with a great big :D!
 
exactly what i was/am thinking!

macFanDave said:
is that Phil Schiller will be making several BIG announcements. I'm giving you all the specificity of a typical TV psychic. There will be "several" and they will be "big."

The last time I saw Jobs speak, he acted more as a master of ceremonies (or emcee or MC, to you youngsters!) than as the one-man show he used to do. He trotted up many others to discuss different things.

Also, there have been many of these big speeches that have been duds, partly because nothing really exciting was revealed and partly because the rumor mill was exactly right and stole Jobs' thunder.

My psychic revelation is based on the idea that if Apple wants to pull off this changing of the guard (at least replacing Jobs as the public face of Apple), they have to give Schiller some killer material to ease the sting of not seeing our hero.
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Amdahl said:
Frankly, I don't think Apple would sell very many computers if they had a sign at the checkout counter stating:

"THIS COMPUTER WILL BE SUBJECT TO INFECTION 17 MONTHS AFTER YOU BUY IT UNLESS YOU PAY US MORE MONEY."
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I'm still getting Security updates for Tiger. Usually Apple will keep updating the previous OS.
 
Just because they release a new version doesn't mean they stop supported the old one. :rolleyes: With that said, every product has to have a life-cycle or companies would go under, imagine Microsoft still releasing updates for DOS.
 
detz said:
Just because they release a new version doesn't mean they stop supported the old one. :rolleyes: With that said, every product has to have a life-cycle or companies would go under, imagine Microsoft still releasing updates for DOS.
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Apple usually supports the prior 10.x release until the next one comes out. :)
 
Schiller doing the keynote means nothing beyond the fact that Jobs isn't doing keynote. Schiller handled the Apple Expo when Jobs was ill, and he did a fine job of introducing the iMac G5. Schiller is capable of handling large product announcements. He may not be as charismatic as Jobs, but Schiller's presence does not put the kibosh on any big announcements. With that said, here are my predictions:

  • Revised iMac
  • New Mac mini
  • iLife and iWork '09
  • Unibody 17" MacBook Pro (May not be discussed.)
  • Perhaps a 20" and 30" Led Cinema Display
 
Tallest Skil said:
Since Snow Leopard is a rewrite of the OS itself and not the addition of new features, I'd much rather they take the extra months and make sure it works.
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It is not a rewrite. It is true that a vast majority of the work is under the hood but they are not rewriting the whole thing as your post implies. They are cleaning out legacy frameworks and supporting code. They are improving existing frameworks. They are pulling in iPhone spawned enhancements that benefit desktop environments. They are adding feature to help developers leverage the compute power in current and near future systems. They are going to a 64b kernel and most Apple applications using 64b. This is all be done by primarily improving existing code (a process they started well back in 10.4).

flottenheimer said:
Referring to this
200806182326.gif
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Note (as an example) that the executable for Mail.app on Leopard is 6 MiB in size while for Snow Leopard is 4 MiB. The rest of the size for Mail.app on both Snow Leopard and Leopard comes from the resources (images, help docs, localizations/languages, nibs, sounds, etc.). Some of the size saving you are seeing are a result of things we can already do on Leopard (or Tiger) if you use the latest developer tools and some is because localizations may not be fully complete yet, etc.

In general none of the size savings will result in a performance boost when the application is running and only have minor affects on load times (since only a small sub-set of the applications resources are load, only those needed for what you are doing and only for the language needed).

Other aspects of Snow Leopard will improve performance however...

Code: 
$ du -hd 2 /Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents 
5.7M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MacOS (executable lives here)
3.7M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MailTimeMachineHelper.app/Contents
3.7M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MailTimeMachineHelper.app
208K	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/PlugIns/MailWebPlugIn.bundle
168K	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/PlugIns/ToDoPlugIn.bundle
376K	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/PlugIns
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/da.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/Dutch.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/English.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/fi.lproj
 16M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/French.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/German.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/Italian.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/Japanese.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/ko.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/no.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/pl.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/pt.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/pt_PT.lproj
 16M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/ru.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/Spanish.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/sv.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/zh_CN.lproj
 15M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/zh_TW.lproj
279M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources
289M	/Volumes/Main/Applications/Mail.app/Contents

$ du -hd 2 /Applications/Mail.app/Contents 
 20K	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/_CodeSignature
3.9M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MacOS (executable lives here)
956K	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MailTimeMachineHelper.app/Contents
956K	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MailTimeMachineHelper.app
136K	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/PlugIns/MailWebPlugIn.webplugin
 76K	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/PlugIns/ToDoPlugIn.webplugin
212K	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/PlugIns
  0B	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/AccountTypes
1.5M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/da.lproj
1.5M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/Dutch.lproj
1.1M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/English.lproj
1.6M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/fi.lproj
1.6M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/French.lproj
1.6M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/German.lproj
1.6M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/Italian.lproj
1.5M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/Japanese.lproj
1.6M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/ko.lproj
512K	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/MailHelp.help
1.5M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/no.lproj
1.5M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/pl.lproj
1.6M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/pt.lproj
1.5M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/pt_PT.lproj
1.6M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/ru.lproj
1.6M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/Spanish.lproj
1.5M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/sv.lproj
1.6M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/zh_CN.lproj
1.6M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources/zh_TW.lproj
 30M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/Resources
 35M	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents
 
iDAG said:
Apple usually supports the prior 10.x release until the next one comes out. :)
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Well, define supports. Apple supports all of their products way back before OSX was released so you can still get help and support for OS 8 if you want. Updates are another story and those usually last a few version after the latest, I think Tiger is still get updates if I recall. Those will probably stop with 10.6 but if you haven't upgraded by then it's your fault. :p
 
Tallest Skil said:
1. No. No chips.
2. Probably.
3. Probably.
4. Probably.
5. 20" discontinued, 30" updated.
6. Heck no.
7. Yep.
8. Once a year, every year, September. Guess what month it is.
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Skil, I'm so glad you are here. You save me a lot of typing as I am less wordy than you.

Everything he says is true.

Blu-Ray folks. It's not coming. It is not in Apple's interest to provide it. Blu-Ray competes with iTunes. It would lose Apple money to provide Blu-Ray. There will be no Blu-Ray on Apple products in the forseeable future, unless it wins the format war. And by Format war, I mean outsells DVD and achieves near ubiquitous market penetration.
 
detz said:
Just because they release a new version doesn't mean they stop supported the old one. :rolleyes: With that said, every product has to have a life-cycle or companies would go under, imagine Microsoft still releasing updates for DOS.
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They do, it's called Windows Vista.
 
akm3 said:
Blu-Ray folks. It's not coming. It is not in Apple's interest to provide it. Blu-Ray competes with iTunes. It would lose Apple money to provide Blu-Ray.
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Macintosh systems are used by professionals to author content like DVDs, etc. The same would be true for Blu-Ray (local burns are helpful for demo and validation). Blu-Ray is also a useful storage format. The primary hold up for Blu-Ray is licensing requirements and fees, followed by market penetration. The competition factor is much lower down on the list for Apple, it isn't the main reason we haven't seen Blu-Ray yet.
 
pgifford said:
who is this "manufaturer" you speak of?

A manufacturer needs the equipment to produce the unibodies. I don't think it's as simple as flipping a switch from 15" to 17". There would have to be adjustments made to throughout the process. I'm not sure how easy of a job that would be - even if they do hire elves.
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Either Asus or Quanta, they're the main manufacturing contractors for Apple's notebooks.
 
BenRoethig said:
Still rumors but highly likely. I would even say there's a pretty good chance 32-bit intel machines might be left out as well.
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If they drop PPC support, I'm praying they drop 32bit Intel support too. No way in hell should a cheap Core Solo Mini be running 10.6 when a quad G5 can't.
 
parapup said:
I just hope that they do something about support for 3rd party hardware like Bluetooth Stereo Headsets, Expresscard adapter for eSATA etc.

I have a 64-bit Vista machine and it downloads and installs drivers for literally everything that I throw at it - obscure serial cards to bleeding edge wireless and everything in between. And all of them are reliable - haven't gotten a crash/hang/slowdown in a year.

The story with Leopard is different - 3rd party drivers are for the most part non-existent and when they exist they are very poor quality - case in point being Silicon Image eSATA Expresscards causing me several crashes. The wonderful Sony Bluetooth Stereo headset that works absolutely great with my Blackberry and Vista x64 - Leopard just has to be restarted to even keep getting the choppy sound.

Even if they invested a fraction of the amount of money they spend on ads they do defaming Vista into making more quality drivers available for 3rd party hardware - that would do great things for Apple :p

I bring this up because Snow Leopard is going to be true fully 64-bit kernel - and whatever existing drivers for 3rd party hardware exist - they aren't going to work, making the worse situation hopeless.
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Why is it Apple's fault that third parties can't get their act together and properly support their hardware? you really are as bad as those who complain that their windows computer keeps crashing after installing a new driver. If the company who produces the driver can't produce a decent driver - then the abuse should be directed at that said company - not at the operating system vendor.

Maybe instead of wasting your time here - you started to complain to the hardware vendors for putting out shoddy drivers.
 
milo said:
I sure hope you're wrong.

Charging full price for optimizations, particularly some that were promised in 10.5, would not be well received at all. It would be a PR nightmare and I doubt they'd sell many.
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You call turning Mac OS X to 64bit a 'minor upgrade' - stop lying and bashing Apple simply to justify your cheapskate nature. If you don't like it - don't bloody buy it! dear god, what a whiner you are.
 
detz said:
Well, define supports. Apple supports all of their products way back before OSX was released so you can still get help and support for OS 8 if you want. Updates are another story and those usually last a few version after the latest, I think Tiger is still get updates if I recall. Those will probably stop with 10.6 but if you haven't upgraded by then it's your fault. :p
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I thought that Apple said they wouldn't support OS 9.2, back to whatever, because they quit building machines that could run that OS, and wanted to phase it out in order to bridge people over to OS X. Then, i think around the time Apple was sifting to Tiger they said they would only 'Support' the older OS X revisions with Security Updates only.

At least that was my understanding.
 
Hear hear! Well spoken!

skellener said:
Snow Leopard is almost the first "real - full " release of OS X. Finally! Gutted carbon out like a fish! Amen! Fairwell "Adobe creakware". After all, it was only put in there mainly for Adobe, MS and the non-existent Macromedia. Finally we'll be free of the crud legacy code. On to a cleaner, more rock solid future. People may bitch and moan that Snow Leopard isn't much, but I'm looking forward to it.
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MacWorld Possibilities...

Eauboy said:
Based on past experience with OS upgrades, if I buy a new MBPro after the first of the year (still running 10.5) would I likely get a free upgrade to 10.6 when it comes out.

I'd rather wait a wee bit longer if that saves me from having to pay a $99 (or whatever) upgrade fee in just a few months.


Thanks...
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I doubt Snow Leopard will be a free update.

Is it like that the unibody 17'' MacBook Pro will debut at the MacWorld expo?
 
I cant wait for Phil Schiller.. heard he was banned from black turtlenecks from steve. Oppheimner can still wear them though.

seriously though...apple has a good team at cupertino.
 
Amdahl said:
...
DEMAND 5 years of security updates from last date of retail sale for their OS. That means Tiger security updates until August 2012.

Windows 2000 will have them until April 2009.
Windows XP will have them until April 2014.

Tiger is 6 years younger than Windows 2000 (which shipped in 99), and 4 years younger than Windows XP, which shipped October 2001.

Why does Apple get away with this? Because YOU let them!
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Apparently we are okay with that.

While I would like to see Apple keep older purchases up to date, at the same time, I wouldn't want Apple have to keep up with working on things from the past. I think Microsoft would be in a better position to innovate if they didn't have to keep supporting something that is 10 years old. It really takes manpower away from developing new features.

And Apple is in the business of getting people to upgrade, to buy new machines. So they are going to strike the right balance between supporting older stuff and getting rid of it. They are bound to upset some people.
 
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