Scott Forstall

[lk400]

Put TC back in accounting and put Forstall in charge for a while. It could make things a lot better and certainly wouldn't make them any worse.

Ya know the people that couldn't stand working with Forstall? They're the corporate bureaucrat douchebag types that love endless committee meetings and protocol and lunch -- and they're destroying Apple from within they way middle management douchebags and their haughty attitudes and endless meetings always do. Put Forestall in and let the firings begin!!!!!

Then why did Jobs tap Cook to replace him, and not Forstall?

 

[Damolee]

Then why did Jobs tap Cook to replace him, and not Forstall?

There isn't any evidence to suggest that's what happened but Forstall isn't the CEO type. He's a project guy.

I don't think much of Cook myself.

Just gone out to see what the competition are doing then get Ive to Apple it up.

The first year where iPhone sales don't match the last, he will be gone.

 

[Bathplug]

I'd take crap maps over crap iOS7/8 any day. It's not even about the design anymore but the overall experience.

 

[I7guy]

There isn't any evidence to suggest that's what happened but Forstall isn't the CEO type. He's a project guy.

I don't think much of Cook myself.

Just gone out to see what the competition are doing then get Ive to Apple it up.

The first year where iPhone sales don't match the last, he will be gone.

Judging from sales of the iPhone 6 not gonna happen.

 

[Dan70]

I prefer the flat over skeumorphic.

Agreed.

UI is much cleaner and easier to see things.

 

[petererr]

Judging from sales of the iPhone 6 not gonna happen.

iPhone 6 is still in momentum. It will happen.

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I'd take crap maps over crap iOS7/8 any day. It's not even about the design anymore but the overall experience.

I second this. Actually this is as obvious as the how good the iPhone was when it came out. However people would always need a couple of years to realise.

 

[I7guy]

iPhone 6 is still in momentum. It will happen.

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I second this. Actually this is as obvious as the how good the iPhone was when it came out. However people would always need a couple of years to realise.

IMO unbiased opinion, "not gonna happen". You're correct as Apple is in a momentum.

Not having cut and paste is an example of Apple failure. Of course the apple fanboy* totally ignores that. If the absence of cut and paste didn't slow things down, the minor hiccup in IOS 8 won't either.

*i dislike using pejorative words like fanboy, however in this instance I could not figure out a good synonym.

 

[Merkie]

I'd take crap maps over crap iOS7/8 any day. It's not even about the design anymore but the overall experience.

Maps is fine to me. The only problem is that it contains about 0.001% of the POI's that Google Maps has (at least in Europe). So for anything other than address search, I don't even bother and open Google Maps instead.

 

[Arran]

Then why did Jobs tap Cook to replace him, and not Forstall?

Forstall wasn't quite ready? Still had a few rough edges to smooth out?

 

[Ambush083]

Still had a few rough edges to smooth out?

I read this as like some kind of inside Apple joke. Like you were not just referring to him getting CEO, but the iOS UI he created. Which is why someone else took over his job and made a flatter design.

 

[Richardgm]

The debug podcast often has former Apple employees on the show talking about their previous work at Apple. They all typically speak very highly of Forstall, his drive, vision and around-the-clock devotion to projects. The take home being he was a PITA to report to and work with if you wanted to enjoy your evenings and weekends. But if you really wanted to push yourself and achieve great things at Apple, Forstall was someone who would help you achieve your goals.

So while he gets trashed often on here nowadays since leaving and for the maps debacle, the fact some very highly respected former Apple engineers speak so highly of him - it tells me he was a very big asset for Apple, and his departure maybe not such a good thing.

Came here to post this. For those who want to listen (it's long).

 

[I7guy]

The debug podcast often has former Apple employees on the show talking about their previous work at Apple. They all typically speak very highly of Forstall, his drive, vision and around-the-clock devotion to projects. The take home being he was a PITA to report to and work with if you wanted to enjoy your evenings and weekends. But if you really wanted to push yourself and achieve great things at Apple, Forstall was someone who would help you achieve your goals.

So while he gets trashed often on here nowadays since leaving and for the maps debacle, the fact some very highly respected former Apple engineers speak so highly of him - it tells me he was a very big asset for Apple, and his departure maybe not such a good thing.

Timmy sees it differently. Of course those who are not happy with Apple and are current customers, thank goodness for choices. Those who are not happy with Apple but are not customers, business as usual.

 

[Arran]

Timmy sees it differently.

Never mind what Tim thinks. He could be wrong.

What do you think?

 

[I7guy]

Never mind what Tim thinks. He could be wrong.

What do you think?

Sure he could be wrong all great CEOs make a misstep, we'll know in a few years.

Me, I like most of IOS 7 and 8 better than IOS 6. I have no emotional investment to skeumorphism or to Apple, and if IOS 7 had not been introduced IOS 6 would have been fine.

But having seen IOS 7 I like the interface better than IOS 6.

 

[Arran]

Came here to post this. For those who want to listen (it's long).

Thanks for posting that. Yeah, it's 2 hours - but I think I'll work my way through it in sections. The synopsis looks great. Covers some UI topics very close to my heart:

Don Melton, former Director of Internet Technologies at Apple, and Nitin Ganatra, former Director of iOS Apps at Apple, talk about presenting to Steve Jobs, web vs. native, implementing gestures, the importance of affordances, and more.

 

[Gregintosh]

Yes. Steve's compensation at Apple was $1 per year and employee health insurance. The board made a jet available for his use after a few years.

A bargain!

He also had a ton of shares of Apple which were worth billions and he could cash in little by little as needed to support his daily needs (including a private jet if he wanted to). Shares grow in value the higher the stock price so the better of a job he did as CEO the more money he was worth.

This $1 a year salary b.s. being used by many to try to show that Steve Jobs wasn't in it for the money is nonsense (not saying you were trying to show it necessarily but I have seen this in other places).

Letting the company pay for the private jet makes it a tax-deductible expense though, where as if Steve were to pay for it personally he would have had to pay income tax on the shares he cashed in to pay for it. So having the company let executives use the private jet is one way to just minimize the tax burden for the executives.

Also, once you have billions of dollars in assets, health insurance is a moot point. You really don't need it, you can pay for literally the best in the world treatment at every turn entirely out of pocket and barely feel the difference in your bank account, and yes, even with Steve's condition which required a lot of expensive treatment.

 

[SusanK]

He also had a ton of shares of Apple which were worth billions and he could cash in little by little as needed to support his daily needs (including a private jet if he wanted to). Shares grow in value the higher the stock price so the better of a job he did as CEO the more money he was worth.

This $1 a year salary b.s. being used by many to try to show that Steve Jobs wasn't in it for the money is nonsense (not saying you were trying to show it necessarily but I have seen this in other places).

Letting the company pay for the private jet makes it a tax-deductible expense though, where as if Steve were to pay for it personally he would have had to pay income tax on the shares he cashed in to pay for it. So having the company let executives use the private jet is one way to just minimize the tax burden for the executives.

Also, once you have billions of dollars in assets, health insurance is a moot point. You really don't need it, you can pay for literally the best in the world treatment at every turn entirely out of pocket and barely feel the difference in your bank account, and yes, even with Steve's condition which required a lot of expensive treatment.

Difficult to know where to begin to respond.

Steve's compensation was $1 per year. Yes, Apple executives earn shares.

Health insurance is a different matter. Until recently is was just about impossible for an individual to purchase private health insurance if there were preexisting conditions. Cancer would just about rule the applicant out.

Group health provided by a company includes all employees regardless of health history.

Apple did provide a jet. I don't know the details of the arrangement. Tax laws do address personal use of company cars. Maybe there is something about aircraft too.

We (endusers, shareholders) got a good deal with Steve's $1 plus benefits.


Again, I really don't know where your post was going. Not criticizing, just not understanding.

What is the Apple CEO compensation package now? I honestly don't know.

 

[I7guy]

Difficult to know where to begin to respond.

Steve's compensation was $1 per year. Yes, Apple executives earn shares.

Health insurance is a different matter. Until recently is was just about impossible for an individual to purchase private health insurance if there were preexisting conditions. Cancer would just about rule the applicant out.

Group health provided by a company includes all employees regardless of health history.

Apple did provide a jet. I don't know the details of the arrangement. Tax laws do address personal use of company cars. Maybe there is something about aircraft too.

We (endusers, shareholders) got a good deal with Steve's $1 plus benefits.


Again, I really don't know where your post was going. Not criticizing, just not understanding.

What is the Apple CEO compensation package now? I honestly don't know.

Not understanding what Steve's compensation package, or his tax liabilities or the companies tax liabilities or Steve's health care plan or his pre-existing condition or Timmy's compensation package has anything to do with Scott Forstall. Unless of course, Steve knew he would eventually die and wanted to do something with Scott.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323530404578205430471522020

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14...m-in-2013-topping-all-but-one-sp-500-tech-ceo

 

[SusanK]

Not understanding what Steve's compensation package, or his tax liabilities or the companies tax liabilities or Steve's health care plan or his pre-existing condition or Timmy's compensation package has anything to do with Scott Forstall. Unless of course, Steve knew he would eventually die and wanted to do something with Scott.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323530404578205430471522020

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14...m-in-2013-topping-all-but-one-sp-500-tech-ceo

Thanks for the links. I knew Apple's CEO was highly compensated but I had no desire to search for that info.

The topic of Scott Forstall on this board usually ends up with something to the effect that Steve ( not the board) installed Cook as CEO. Some poster have posted repeatedly that Steve is responsible for supervising Cook from the grave.

I realize that is outrageous and not based in reality. I've blocked one poster due the the repetitive posting of such nonsense. It just got old.

Executive compensation is not on topic when Scott Forstall is being discussed. Just the way the thread usually goes.

Thanks again for the links.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Needs to return to

Just saying...

No thanks. Stay away.

I prefer the flat over skeumorphic.

Same.

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There isn't any evidence to suggest that's what happened but Forstall isn't the CEO type. He's a project guy.

I don't think much of Cook myself.

Just gone out to see what the competition are doing then get Ive to Apple it up.

The first year where iPhone sales don't match the last, he will be gone.

There's about zero chance any iPhone will ever outsell the 6/6 Plus. The numbers for it are just too massive. 30,000,000+ preorders in the US and China alone.

 

[KPOM]

My understanding was that Forstall was not directly responsible for Maps, the reason he paid the price in the end and used as a scapegoat was because he would not apologise to customers for the inconvenience it caused - as part of Apple senior management. Had he not been so determined that it wasn't his department that caused it so did not think he should apologise he most likely would still be working at Apple.

Well, that's a problem. His group was responsible for Maps. And if it didn't work, it was on him. It's not as if the CEO refused to sign a public apology carried in major newspapers around the country. At that point, it's not an issue whose "fault" it is. Apple had a major PR issue on their hands, and they needed a united front from senior management acknowledging the issue and what they were doing to fix it.

 

[notrack]

The debug podcast often has former Apple employees on the show talking about their previous work at Apple. They all typically speak very highly of Forstall, his drive, vision and around-the-clock devotion to projects. The take home being he was a PITA to report to and work with if you wanted to enjoy your evenings and weekends. But if you really wanted to push yourself and achieve great things at Apple, Forstall was someone who would help you achieve your goals.

So while he gets trashed often on here nowadays since leaving and for the maps debacle, the fact some very highly respected former Apple engineers speak so highly of him - it tells me he was a very big asset for Apple, and his departure maybe not such a good thing.

And according to them he must have been excellent in improving the usability in the UI.

 

[kissnoob]

oh, NOOO. Thanks for your past services. However, please stay away.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Forstall had so much more to do with iOS than just skeumorphism:

Forstall's name is on 166 pending patent applications. That's more than anyone at the company, according to data from investment bank MDB Capital.

"He's one of, if not the most prolific inventors at Apple,"

I'm certain Forstall would've eventually adapted iOS to a flat design, and I'm certain that a lot of his ideas are used in iOS 7 & iOS 8. The guy and his team created iOS, Safari, and Aqua for Pete's sake, and got fired for a Maps app that still sucks to this day?

Maps was a monumental task to undertake and I applaud him for not apologizing to the pencil pusher Tim Cook and standing his ground. Cook fired him to show the world that he was fully in charge at Apple; it was an ego contest. Now we get garbage like iOS 8.0.1 and Healthkit that doesn't work most of the time.

agreed

 

[ToroidalZeus]

There's about zero chance any iPhone will ever outsell the 6/6 Plus. The numbers for it are just too massive. 30,000,000+ preorders in the US and China alone.

People thought the 5S wouldn't sell well because it was almost identical to the 5 but ended up far outselling the estimates.

With that said you do have a good point. It's quite possible Apple has destroyed the incentives to upgrade by introducing such large displays.

It will be interesting to see what happens.