Scott Forstall

[Ledgem]

Cook is CEO. Anything that happens at Apple good or not so good is his responsibility. No reason Bono should apologize for Cook pushing an album to devices. That was Cook's boneheaded decision.

All the commotion about Maps is silly. People with pricy phones could not make calls because of buggy OS. That is ok but a silly app is reason for discharge.

Amazing

This thought occurred to me recently and I found it weird, too. The Maps issue wasn't really that big a deal, but I thought it was good of Apple to come forward and apologize when they realized that the product wasn't up to their standards. It would have been better if they had waited until they were certain that it was up to their standards, but the apology made it clear that they still had those standards. So iOS 8.01, which rendered some new phones unusable... that's a big deal. Was that not deserving of an apology?

Granted, there's a difference between the two in that customers were stuck with Maps and no viable alternative (Google Maps, which had previously been the iOS default, did not yet exist as a separate app that could be downloaded), whereas the iOS 8.01 update was pulled and instructions were provided on how to undo the update (with mixed reports as to how successful the outcomes were)... but if they were going to issue an apology over Maps, surely iOS 8.01 deserved one, as well?

 

[SusanK]

no service apology

I think there was a sentence or two that Apple is sorry or inconvenience. Something to that effect. Not at all like the federal case that was made for Maps. The apology on the homepage was overkill IMHO.

The iOS 8 got of to a rocky start. Hope it is working well for all 8 users now. The 6 and 6+ look like nice phones. I was impressed with the 6+. Not certain I would want to carry a phone that size but it looked good.

 

[One13Truck]

Needs to return to

Just saying...

I agree with this 100%. But that tool Jony Ive needs to go first. I've used Apple since the 80's and they're coming closer to pushing me away with each new update. Yosemite is great as for added features and most improvements but the look of it is just as terrible as the garbage that is iOS 7 and 8. Do I regret upgrading to Yosemite? Not really. But I am spending the weekend tweaking it and changing the look of it to bring it back to looking like the older and MUCH better looking OSXs along with bringing my much beloved skeuomorphism back to the icons. This flat pastely stuff is garbage. Jony can have it and take it with him on his way out the door. Give me my felt and paper and leather back.

 

[BillyMatt87]

I agree with this 100%. But that tool Jony Ive needs to go first. I've used Apple since the 80's and they're coming closer to pushing me away with each new update. Yosemite is great as for added features and most improvements but the look of it is just as terrible as the garbage that is iOS 7 and 8. Do I regret upgrading to Yosemite? Not really. But I am spending the weekend tweaking it and changing the look of it to bring it back to looking like the older and MUCH better looking OSXs along with bringing my much beloved skeuomorphism back to the icons. This flat pastely stuff is garbage. Jony can have it and take it with him on his way out the door. Give me my felt and paper and leather back.

Don't fire Jony! Just have him focus on hardware which is what he excels at and he's too important to Apple's success to fire because of iOS 7/8 but Ive's Yosemite UI definitely looks better than Ive's iOS UI so maybe we'll see further refinements to both platforms.

 

[Dmaynard83]

I agree with this 100%. But that tool Jony Ive needs to go first. I've used Apple since the 80's and they're coming closer to pushing me away with each new update. Yosemite is great as for added features and most improvements but the look of it is just as terrible as the garbage that is iOS 7 and 8. Do I regret upgrading to Yosemite? Not really. But I am spending the weekend tweaking it and changing the look of it to bring it back to looking like the older and MUCH better looking OSXs along with bringing my much beloved skeuomorphism back to the icons. This flat pastely stuff is garbage. Jony can have it and take it with him on his way out the door. Give me my felt and paper and leather back.

Well, thats just your opinion..man.

In all seriousness I do like the new design of yosemite. But I do know not everyone likes the new iOS 8 design either. Anyways to each his own.

 

[Abazigal]

Don't fire Jony! Just have him focus on hardware which is what he excels at and he's too important to Apple's success to fire because of iOS 7/8 but Ive's Yosemite UI definitely looks better than Ive's iOS UI so maybe we'll see further refinements to both platforms.

I don't know about that. I do feel that the new look of iOS does seem to fit the hardware better. Prior to ios 7, we had all this industrial looking hardware, which looked out of place with the more skeumorphic software.

I am honestly liking the new look of iOS, to be honest. If not for the new, clean and minimalistic look, features like extensions would not have been possible (because all those 3D share buttons would look out of place against a felt background).

I don't daresay it's perfect or the best, but I don't think Scott would have done a better job. They are just worlds apart philosophically.

 

[SusanK]

This thought occurred to me recently and I found it weird, too. The Maps issue wasn't really that big a deal, but I thought it was good of Apple to come forward and apologize when they realized that the product wasn't up to their standards. It would have been better if they had waited until they were certain that it was up to their standards, but the apology made it clear that they still had those standards. So iOS 8.01, which rendered some new phones unusable... that's a big deal. Was that not deserving of an apology?

Granted, there's a difference between the two in that customers were stuck with Maps and no viable alternative (Google Maps, which had previously been the iOS default, did not yet exist as a separate app that could be downloaded), whereas the iOS 8.01 update was pulled and instructions were provided on how to undo the update (with mixed reports as to how successful the outcomes were)... but if they were going to issue an apology over Maps, surely iOS 8.01 deserved one, as well?

I think there was a data loss issue in 8.0.2. If memory serves resetting all settings resulted in erasing iCloud data. The sync feature also erased the data from the Mac.

I'm not using 8 so others who are may have better information.

Data loss definitely deserves an apology INHO.

 

[I7guy]

I think there was a data loss issue in 8.0.2. If memory serves resetting all settings resulted in erasing iCloud data. The sync feature also erased the data from the Mac.

I'm not using 8 so others who are may have better information.

Data loss definitely deserves an apology INHO.

If in fact there were such an issue, I can't verify, an apology hasn't been issued yet, therefore probably not forthcoming.

 

[SusanK]

This link may address data loss issue.



https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1787223/

 

[One13Truck]

Well, thats just your opinion..man.

In all seriousness I do like the new design of yosemite. But I do know not everyone likes the new iOS 8 design either. Anyways to each his own.

True. And my opinion differs from most. I know this. But I guess it's like arguing Chevy vs Ford or any other similar argument. I hate what Jony and the teams have done with the looks of iOS 7 and iOS 8 and Yosemite. I hate the flat pastel look. And, yes, I prefer skeuomorphic designs. I spent the evening fixing what I could to bring Yosemite back to as many of those as I could.

I hate the visual direction Apple is still going in for all of the OS and I hope it's a trend that ends soon. It's not quite enough to push me away as a customer yet but I am looking at a new phone and for the first time ever would consider not getting an iPhone and going with a Droid or at least going with a JB for the first time ever if they can skin and clone the iOS 6 look.
Same for the home computer. It's old and needing to be replaced. I'm considering going with a Windows instead of Apple for the first time ever. My leaving wouldn't come close to being felt by the company but as an Apple user for 30 years it should be a sign they are failing somewhere.

 

[Dmaynard83]

True. And my opinion differs from most. I know this. But I guess it's like arguing Chevy vs Ford or any other similar argument. I hate what Jony and the teams have done with the looks of iOS 7 and iOS 8 and Yosemite. I hate the flat pastel look. And, yes, I prefer skeuomorphic designs. I spent the evening fixing what I could to bring Yosemite back to as many of those as I could.

I hate the visual direction Apple is still going in for all of the OS and I hope it's a trend that ends soon. It's not quite enough to push me away as a customer yet but I am looking at a new phone and for the first time ever would consider not getting an iPhone and going with a Droid or at least going with a JB for the first time ever if they can skin and clone the iOS 6 look.
Same for the home computer. It's old and needing to be replaced. I'm considering going with a Windows instead of Apple for the first time ever. My leaving wouldn't come close to being felt by the company but as an Apple user for 30 years it should be a sign they are failing somewhere.

Sometimes you need to just try out the competition and see what your best fit is.

Last year I had to try the S4 and note 2 to see what I was missing (coming from a iPhone 4s). After getting sick of touchwiz I had to go back to the iPhone. I honestly just prefer the simplicity of iOS over android, but maybe the candycane update will come with a design overhaul.

 

[I7guy]

This link may address data loss issue.



https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1787223/

I stopped reading as soon as I saw Yosemite, because im Mac illiterate. But still, is there a widespread issue?

 

[SusanK]

I stopped reading as soon as I saw Yosemite, because im Mac illiterate. But still, is there a widespread issue?

I have no idea. I'm not using 8 or Yosemite. Sorry.

I try to stay within reason of the system that was preinstalled on my devices. I live by the adage if you want to keep your old hardware, keep your old software.

There were items on the local broadcast news about data loss at that time. The new phones and OS were just introduced so iPhone and some of the software glitches were news du jour.

 

[I7guy]

I have no idea. I'm not using 8 or Yosemite. Sorry.

I try to stay within reason of the system that was preinstalled on my devices. I live by the adage if you want to keep your old hardware, keep your old software.

There were items on the local broadcast news about data loss at that time. The new phones and OS were just introduced so iPhone and some of the software glitches were news du jour.

A lot of what happens around apple launches are sensationalized and overblown.

As far as I go, I always upgrade my devices with the latest software available for them.

 

[cjmillsnun]

This thought occurred to me recently and I found it weird, too. The Maps issue wasn't really that big a deal, but I thought it was good of Apple to come forward and apologize when they realized that the product wasn't up to their standards. It would have been better if they had waited until they were certain that it was up to their standards, but the apology made it clear that they still had those standards. So iOS 8.01, which rendered some new phones unusable... that's a big deal. Was that not deserving of an apology?

Granted, there's a difference between the two in that customers were stuck with Maps and no viable alternative (Google Maps, which had previously been the iOS default, did not yet exist as a separate app that could be downloaded), whereas the iOS 8.01 update was pulled and instructions were provided on how to undo the update (with mixed reports as to how successful the outcomes were)... but if they were going to issue an apology over Maps, surely iOS 8.01 deserved one, as well?

Maps was one hell of a big deal.

They pushed a downgrade on customers. Even now it isn't to the standards of G Maps (and G maps isn't brilliant IMO).

Now most of the problems were backend, however iOS was Forsall's responsibility and that includes maps. Many people left feedback about how poor maps was before iOS 6 went GM.

iOS 8.01 deserved an apology too. The code itself was fine (anyone who updated through iTunes was fine - including iPhone 6 and 6 plus users.) The problem was a script for the OTA update. 8.02 is the same as 8.01 with that script changed and the version number incremented.

 

[grahamperrin]

Usability or GTFO: if Forstall can curb the butchery that is Yosemite, bring it on

Needs to return to

Just saying...

For BillyMatt87 saying just that,

without me reading any of the responses,

five.
​

Just starring …

 

[grahamperrin]

What's wrong with Apple? (link)

Thanks God none of you actually work at Apple nor are in any position to make any sort of decisions at the company.

I can't say thanks for that attempt to denigrate the opinions of others. Unless I'm missing something, none of those people expressed a wish to work for, or made a decision at, Apple.

I don't want Forstall back.
I just want someone in the job who knows how to a UI is supposed to work.
Anybody but whoever the guy that is in there now.

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20338406#post20338406 under 'What's wrong with Apple?' picks up on that point and others.

 

[dannyyankou]

There isn't any evidence to suggest that's what happened but Forstall isn't the CEO type. He's a project guy.

I don't think much of Cook myself.

Just gone out to see what the competition are doing then get Ive to Apple it up.

The first year where iPhone sales don't match the last, he will be gone.

Kind of an old post to bump, but here's the evidence straight from the man himself.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/08/24Steve-Jobs-Resigns-as-CEO-of-Apple.html

“The Board has complete confidence that Tim is the right person to be our next CEO,” added Levinson. “Tim’s 13 years of service to Apple have been marked by outstanding performance, and he has demonstrated remarkable talent and sound judgment in everything he does.”

Jobs submitted his resignation to the Board today and strongly recommended that the Board implement its succession plan and name Tim Cook as CEO.

 

[grahamperrin]

Don't believe everything that you hear/see in the media

… why did pretty much anyone who ever had to work with him also think he was a prick to work with? …

Scott Forstall, the Sorcerer's Apprentice at Apple - Businessweek (2011-10-12, page one of six)

"… He’s won the intense loyalty and allegiance of many of his underlings, and his engineers are among the hardest workers at the company. …"

Former Apple folks sing praises of Scott Forstall, say he ‘was the best approximation of Steve Jobs that Apple had left’ | 9to5Mac (2012)

 

[LordQ]

Needs to return to

Just saying...

lol no thanks.

 

[treichert]

Scott Forstall, the Sorcerer's Apprentice at Apple - Businessweek (2011-10-12, page one of six)

You should've read the entire sentence.

At the same time, according to several former Apple employees, a number of high-ranking executives have left the company because they found working with Forstall so difficult. That sentiment, it seems, has not been limited to fellow executives. One former member of the iOS team, a senior engineer, describes leaving Apple after growing tired of working with Forstall and hearing his common refrain: “Steve wouldn’t like that.” Similarly frustrated engineers from Forstall’s group have been hired by other Silicon Valley companies, according to one CEO.

 

[C DM]

lol no thanks.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

 

[grahamperrin]

Don't believe everything that you hear/see in the media

You should've read the entire sentence.

I did

The chosen quote was to emphasise the subject – Don't believe everything that you hear/see in the media

I assume that SlCKB0Y's statement "… pretty much anyone who ever had to work with him also think he was a prick to work with*…" was an interpretation of what had been read in the media.

 

[Sy7ygy]

Jobs kept Forstall for good reasons.

We are seeing those reasons now..

'nuff said. /thread

 

[grahamperrin]

I found September's mock-up misleading, lacking in refinement

lol no thanks.

Check out my portfolio! https://www.behance.net/CarlosQG

OK, something from that portfolio, created to have fun at the expense of another person:

If iOS 8 used iOS 6 Design Language... on Behance

– screenshot below.

What if Scott Forstall was still leading iOS develpment?

Dedicated to those who say iOS 7/8 is ugly

I use a different version, not 6.

Given the dedication to mockery of a group, I'm tempted to attempt a laugh at the expense of Carlos Quijano.

Instead, two simple observations on the mock-up below:

1. it is misleading
2. it lacks refinement.

It is, I believe, the the product of someone who has (or had) no relevant cultural bellwether. Either that, or the bellwether was ignored.

In fairness, my point of reference for those observations was not published until some time after Carlos published his mock-up.