Scott Forstall

[I7guy]

It is a question in general.



Why do you limit your answer to Macrumors?
Is it a negativity in your eyes when some of the people don't nod out of blind loyalty to cardinal changes that are considered ***** by them?

People are entitled to their opinions. Apple seems to go in a specific way. Im pointing out its way more dramatic and attracting to post a "I hate IOS" thread than an "I love IOS" thread.

----------

Read my previous post about Jobs' vision and his "failures".
(He has become THE Steve Jobs because he was visionless and had a bunch of failures heading one of the most successful companies in the world.)
I advise you to read (http://books.simonandschuster.com/Steve-Jobs/Walter-Isaacson/9781451648546)



The market as per consumers in this context, is not it? So, consumers buy Apple products because they like the current management and how the company performs? Absolutely unorthodox approach, to say the least.

I will more likely consider an apple product in the future due to the above.

 

[One13Truck]

In other words: pay for me to change because I personally don't like something.

Good to know we're dealing with people who are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

It's been told to us before. In the Yosemite thread we were told if we don't like the way iOS and Yosemite is to go buy a Windows computer. Well that's fine for people with income available to do that. Not all of us has that kind of $ laying around to be able to do that.
My hatred for the iOS7/8 and Yosemite is pushing me to that point but I can't just go out tonight and replace everything. As a 30 year Apple user and previous fanboy of the company up until a few years ago it pains me to say but I only keep my current items limping along for budgetary reasons or I would replace them with the competition. I've rolled back as much as I can and did my JB to at least skin the old iOS6 look and done as much as I can to that train wreck that is Yosemite to at least make it almost useable while I hold on.

Get rid of Cook and Ive and bring back or bring in people that can actually make a decent iOS/OS and I'd be more than happy to go back to being a fanboy again with my faith in the company restored. Unfortunately with Ive running things these last few years have been a disaster and there are no signs of any hope in the near future.

 

[I7guy]

It's been told to us before. In the Yosemite thread we were told if we don't like the way iOS and Yosemite is to go buy a Windows computer. Well that's fine for people with income available to do that. Not all of us has that kind of $ laying around to be able to do that.
My hatred for the iOS7/8 and Yosemite is pushing me to that point but I can't just go out tonight and replace everything. As a 30 year Apple user and previous fanboy of the company up until a few years ago it pains me to say but I only keep my current items limping along for budgetary reasons or I would replace them with the competition. I've rolled back as much as I can and did my JB to at least skin the old iOS6 look and done as much as I can to that train wreck that is Yosemite to at least make it almost useable while I hold on.

Get rid of Cook and Ive and bring back or bring in people that can actually make a decent iOS/OS and I'd be more than happy to go back to being a fanboy again with my faith in the company restored. Unfortunately with Ive running things these last few years have been a disaster and there are no signs of any hope in the near future.

I like IOS 8 and like the mgmt team and the direction the company is headed. As this has been beaten to the ground already, Apple certainly isn't pleasing everyone. But they didn't prior to ive and cook either.

 

[daijholt]

So let's look at this logically..

The competition today are at the top of their game; Samsung have great products, Motorola have great products, even Microsoft have some great products. Despite this onslaught of opponents, Apple are still annihilating everybody else's sales figures, are selling everything they are able to produce, and are watching as the company stock fires toward heights that no other company in history has ever reached.

This isn't to say they haven't had a few blunders along the way, but the numbers speak for themselves.

Apple is under exactly the right executive team at the moment, and if & when that changes, I'm sure they'll do exactly what needs to be done to keep moving forward, just like they did when they dropped Forstall.

 

[sunking101]

So let's look at this logically..

The competition today are at the top of their game; Samsung have great products, Motorola have great products, even Microsoft have some great products. Despite this onslaught of opponents, Apple are still annihilating everybody else's sales figures, are selling everything they are able to produce, and are watching as the company stock fires toward heights that no other company in history has ever reached.

This isn't to say they haven't had a few blunders along the way, but the numbers speak for themselves.

Apple is under exactly the right executive team at the moment, and if & when that changes, I'm sure they'll do exactly what needs to be done to keep moving forward, just like they did when they dropped Forstall.

Living on past reputation and former glories doesn't mean that everything is going swimmingly. Sales are up and all that but since Jobs died we've had a lacklustre iPhone 6 and two extremely buggy mobile operating systems. Apple release half-finished software to market and expect customers to run beta products for months on end. That is beginning to turn some diehards away so what hope have they of keeping the Android switchers who have come to see what the 6+ is like?
1GB of RAM in the 6/6+ is criminal for the amount they charge, and then there's iOS8 on top! If Apple don't watch out their empire will soon come crashing down. People have to live with these phones for 12-24 months and if they end up hating them then it's pretty sure that their next contract phone won't be made by Apple. Loyalty works both ways and Apple need to release good, finished, products in order to keep their customers loyal.
Let's face it, Apple have such a good rep and image that Cook could make a complete pig's ear of thing for a good few years before it all goes pear shaped. Anyone could. He's doing nothing special IMO. It's like a football manager coming to Real Madrid, anyone could do the job up to a point and certainly for the first few months.

 

[I7guy]

So let's look at this logically..

The competition today are at the top of their game; Samsung have great products, Motorola have great products, even Microsoft have some great products. Despite this onslaught of opponents, Apple are still annihilating everybody else's sales figures, are selling everything they are able to produce, and are watching as the company stock fires toward heights that no other company in history has ever reached.

This isn't to say they haven't had a few blunders along the way, but the numbers speak for themselves.

Apple is under exactly the right executive team at the moment, and if & when that changes, I'm sure they'll do exactly what needs to be done to keep moving forward, just like they did when they dropped Forstall.

Couldn't agree more. Apple got two wildly successful models out the door; even now, 3 months after release, it may be tough to snag the model you want. IOS 8 was released and unfortunately it had the same quality issues of 6 and 7 but apple will fix. IOS 8.1.2 to me is as good as 7.1.2.

Just got myself and i6 even though I said I wouldn't and am waiting for Santa to give it to me.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Living on past reputation and former glories doesn't mean that everything is going swimmingly. Loyalty works both ways and Apple need to release good, finished, products in order to keep their customers loyal.
Let's face it, Apple have such a good rep and image that Cook could make a complete pig's ear of thing for a good few years before it all goes pear shaped. Anyone could. He's doing nothing special IMO.

Exactly, that is what some of us are talking about, who are not completely blinded by loyalty. Nothing has been done since 2011 just living on the interest of the past. But that won't last forever.
"It's sometimes easy to forget that king of the hill isn't a permanent position, and companies that seem invincible might not be around forever in their current form—or, in some cases, any form." (Chris Morris, CNBC)

 

[I7guy]

Exactly, that is what some of us are talking about, who are not completely blinded by loyalty. Nothing has been done since 2011 just living on the interest of the past. But that won't last forever.
"It's sometimes easy to forget that king of the hill isn't a permanent position, and companies that seem invincible might not be around forever in their current form—or, in some cases, any form." (Chris Morris, CNBC)

Not really: some of us are not blinded by loyalty as you say and might see things clearly.

i really like the doom and quote; my favorite is "what goes up must come down". Maybe a thread should be started with these types of euphemisms. Of course the other side is "the meek shall inherit the earth".

 

[Ledgem]

Let's face it, Apple have such a good rep and image that Cook could make a complete pig's ear of thing for a good few years before it all goes pear shaped. Anyone could. He's doing nothing special IMO. It's like a football manager coming to Real Madrid, anyone could do the job up to a point and certainly for the first few months.

You're definitely not giving Tim Cook enough credit. When Steve Jobs was alive, Apple didn't fully stand on its own. Part of the confidence behind Apple was the confidence in Steve Jobs. When Tim Cook took the reigns, the amount of pessimism and over-analyzation about Apple multiplied dramatically. Even today, three years after Jobs' death, the amount of complaining from self-proclaimed Apple fans and enthusiasts about how "this wouldn't have happened if Steve were here" and "Apple is doomed" continues in large numbers. Even the stock market seems to carry this philosophy, decreasing Apple's stock price (temporarily) even as Apple announces that it has made record profit and smashed sales records.

The reality is that the misses we're seeing now were more acceptable with Steve "you're holding it wrong" Jobs. His charisma made it seem as if these mistakes weren't a big deal, or perhaps that they were acceptable. Tim Cook doesn't seem to have that charisma, or perhaps that's just not his style. Yet instead of buckling under the pressure where investors and consumers alike seem to be prophesying that he would fail, he has continued on and is leading Apple to the proverbial "new heights."

How much of that has to do with Tim Cook, and how much of that has to do with Apple (and/or Steve Jobs)? It's debatable. Personally, I don't think that I'd be able to handle the combination of working with strong personalities, driving the highest-profile technology company in the world, all while having a multitude of people telling me that I was going to fail. Realistically speaking, I think most people would be fooling themselves if they think that they could handle that.

So give the man some credit. He's earned it and continues to earn it. He doesn't have to be perfect for us to recognize that.

 

[sunking101]

You're definitely not giving Tim Cook enough credit. When Steve Jobs was alive, Apple didn't fully stand on its own. Part of the confidence behind Apple was the confidence in Steve Jobs. When Tim Cook took the reigns, the amount of pessimism and over-analyzation about Apple multiplied dramatically. Even today, three years after Jobs' death, the amount of complaining from self-proclaimed Apple fans and enthusiasts about how "this wouldn't have happened if Steve were here" and "Apple is doomed" continues in large numbers. Even the stock market seems to carry this philosophy, decreasing Apple's stock price (temporarily) even as Apple announces that it has made record profit and smashed sales records.

The reality is that the misses we're seeing now were more acceptable with Steve "you're holding it wrong" Jobs. His charisma made it seem as if these mistakes weren't a big deal, or perhaps that they were acceptable. Tim Cook doesn't seem to have that charisma, or perhaps that's just not his style. Yet instead of buckling under the pressure where investors and consumers alike seem to be prophesying that he would fail, he has continued on and is leading Apple to the proverbial "new heights."

How much of that has to do with Tim Cook, and how much of that has to do with Apple (and/or Steve Jobs)? It's debatable. Personally, I don't think that I'd be able to handle the combination of working with strong personalities, driving the highest-profile technology company in the world, all while having a multitude of people telling me that I was going to fail. Realistically speaking, I think most people would be fooling themselves if they think that they could handle that.

So give the man some credit. He's earned it and continues to earn it. He doesn't have to be perfect for us to recognize that.

He signed off 1GB of RAM on the 5S & i6 and, inexplicably, the 6+. He also signed off the BETA that is iOS8. You're praising his beancounting, but what about his products?
Apple used to innovate but now they can't even keep apace with other manufacturers and are instead incorporating Android features into their o/s. The iPhone 6 could be a great product but beancounting and bad decisions at the top has made it a lacklustre offering IMO. I love iPhones but the 6 and 6+ are a major disappointment.

 

[Tubamajuba]

But outside of this thread, and a few others, I hear nothing but positivity about apple products in the real world.

Exactly. The vast majority of Apple's customers are happy with their products. MacRumors, on the other hand, is full of people who come here for the sole purpose of complaining about Apple. So of course people around here have a doom and gloom perspective about Cook and Ive- they look around and see that many people feel the same way as they do, and extrapolate that to the general public. If the general public felt the same way about Apple as the average MacRumors user did, Apple would indeed be doomed and both Cook and Ive would be gone.

 

[GigabitEthernet]

I'd quite like to see Craig Federighi in charge of iOS. He's been doing really well on the OS X side.

 

[Ledgem]

He signed off 1GB of RAM on the 5S & i6 and, inexplicably, the 6+. He also signed off the BETA that is iOS8. You're praising his beancounting, but what about his products?

I use Apple's products every day. I use them at home and I rely on them at work. These are the best computing devices I have ever used in my history of computing, and I'm including a few comparisons to other modern-day devices in that statement. I'm not telling you that they're perfect, but I think it's important to keep our complaints grounded. iOS 8 is far from being beta quality (although I recognize that your install and/or device might have issues that mine do not), and 1 GB of RAM has worked just fine on my iPhone 5S.

Would you have been satisfied with 2 GB on the iPhone 6 models? I'd like 16 GB, myself, but 1 GB has gotten the job done nicely on my 5S. My phone is still more responsive and stable than many of my friends' Android phones that boast more RAM and a higher clock rate. Bean counting or not, Apple is still delivering on the user experience for me and practically everyone I talk to offline.

Apple used to innovate but now they can't even keep apace with other manufacturers and are instead incorporating Android features into their o/s. The iPhone 6 could be a great product but beancounting and bad decisions at the top has made it a lacklustre offering IMO. I love iPhones but the 6 and 6+ are a major disappointment.

Apple is innovating on a massive scale, actually. I was amazed when they implemented iPods and the iTunes Music Store in the early 2000's; it seemed like a masterful vision that was carried out with strategic precision. Now they're further merging how their devices work together (Continuity), and they've laid the groundwork for an amazing amount of things to come (HomeKit, HealthKit, and the more high-profile Apple Pay, the full capability of which we haven't yet seen). This is amazing innovation. It isn't all here yet, but you can see the direction that Apple is going... and you can see some other manufacturers scrambling to try and replicate it.

Apple will not always be ahead of everyone in every field, and there's nothing wrong with criticizing when they're behind in a certain area. But to say that Apple isn't innovating, as a whole? You're in a negative slump, my friend, and are focusing on perceived negatives in a very pessimistic view. If you step back and try to view it objectively, we have some amazing things here and now, and a lot more coming our way.

 

[I7guy]

I use Apple's products every day. I use them at home and I rely on them at work. These are the best computing devices I have ever used in my history of computing, and I'm including a few comparisons to other modern-day devices in that statement. I'm not telling you that they're perfect, but I think it's important to keep our complaints grounded. iOS 8 is far from being beta quality (although I recognize that your install and/or device might have issues that mine do not), and 1 GB of RAM has worked just fine on my iPhone 5S.

Would you have been satisfied with 2 GB on the iPhone 6 models? I'd like 16 GB, myself, but 1 GB has gotten the job done nicely on my 5S. My phone is still more responsive and stable than many of my friends' Android phones that boast more RAM and a higher clock rate. Bean counting or not, Apple is still delivering on the user experience for me and practically everyone I talk to offline.


Apple is innovating on a massive scale, actually. I was amazed when they implemented iPods and the iTunes Music Store in the early 2000's; it seemed like a masterful vision that was carried out with strategic precision. Now they're further merging how their devices work together (Continuity), and they've laid the groundwork for an amazing amount of things to come (HomeKit, HealthKit, and the more high-profile Apple Pay, the full capability of which we haven't yet seen). This is amazing innovation. It isn't all here yet, but you can see the direction that Apple is going... and you can see some other manufacturers scrambling to try and replicate it.

Apple will not always be ahead of everyone in every field, and there's nothing wrong with criticizing when they're behind in a certain area. But to say that Apple isn't innovating, as a whole? You're in a negative slump, my friend, and are focusing on perceived negatives in a very pessimistic view. If you step back and try to view it objectively, we have some amazing things here and now, and a lot more coming our way.

Great post and I agree with the broader view. Unfortunately the customer experience on the 100s of millions of idevices will never be 100%. What you see is apple laying the ground work for some ground breaking stuff. Due to the popularity of their products, they won't have trouble getting third parties to use their new frameworks.

 

[sunking101]

I use Apple's products every day. I use them at home and I rely on them at work. These are the best computing devices I have ever used in my history of computing, and I'm including a few comparisons to other modern-day devices in that statement. I'm not telling you that they're perfect, but I think it's important to keep our complaints grounded. iOS 8 is far from being beta quality (although I recognize that your install and/or device might have issues that mine do not), and 1 GB of RAM has worked just fine on my iPhone 5S.

Would you have been satisfied with 2 GB on the iPhone 6 models? I'd like 16 GB, myself, but 1 GB has gotten the job done nicely on my 5S. My phone is still more responsive and stable than many of my friends' Android phones that boast more RAM and a higher clock rate. Bean counting or not, Apple is still delivering on the user experience for me and practically everyone I talk to offline.


Apple is innovating on a massive scale, actually. I was amazed when they implemented iPods and the iTunes Music Store in the early 2000's; it seemed like a masterful vision that was carried out with strategic precision. Now they're further merging how their devices work together (Continuity), and they've laid the groundwork for an amazing amount of things to come (HomeKit, HealthKit, and the more high-profile Apple Pay, the full capability of which we haven't yet seen). This is amazing innovation. It isn't all here yet, but you can see the direction that Apple is going... and you can see some other manufacturers scrambling to try and replicate it.

Apple will not always be ahead of everyone in every field, and there's nothing wrong with criticizing when they're behind in a certain area. But to say that Apple isn't innovating, as a whole? You're in a negative slump, my friend, and are focusing on perceived negatives in a very pessimistic view. If you step back and try to view it objectively, we have some amazing things here and now, and a lot more coming our way.

I would still take an iPhone over any other phone, but they could be so much better. Unlike your goodself, I was experiencing RAM deficiencies on my iPhone 5 and the 6+ has magnified it. A phone two years newer, and current, should not be experiencing worse tab reloads and app reloads. Also, iOS8 was released a buggy mess. Better QC/testing of the software and an extra gig of RAM would have made this latest iPhone a killer, and that's my beef.

I do take onboard some of your points regarding pessimism but this year I feel that I've chosen the iPhone because I dislike the current crop of Android phones, rather than it being because I love the new iPhone. I want to love my phone, not view it as the best of a bad bunch, and that's the problem for me this year. For the first time in four years I seriously considered Android.

 

[im_to_hyper]

It's been told to us before. In the Yosemite thread we were told if we don't like the way iOS and Yosemite is to go buy a Windows computer. Well that's fine for people with income available to do that. Not all of us has that kind of $ laying around to be able to do that.
My hatred for the iOS7/8 and Yosemite is pushing me to that point but I can't just go out tonight and replace everything. As a 30 year Apple user and previous fanboy of the company up until a few years ago it pains me to say but I only keep my current items limping along for budgetary reasons or I would replace them with the competition. I've rolled back as much as I can and did my JB to at least skin the old iOS6 look and done as much as I can to that train wreck that is Yosemite to at least make it almost useable while I hold on.

Get rid of Cook and Ive and bring back or bring in people that can actually make a decent iOS/OS and I'd be more than happy to go back to being a fanboy again with my faith in the company restored. Unfortunately with Ive running things these last few years have been a disaster and there are no signs of any hope in the near future.

Could always just stick to a PowerPC, Core Duo machine, or keep using any previous OS X version and not upgrade for awhile...

Why hate the OS? Because its evolving? Windows 10 will be doing the same thing -- modernizing everything across the board.

If you look at OS X 10.0 Beta through 10.9 you will see some serious changes... its hard to believe its the same OS. 10.10 is just a different visual leap.

---

As far as iOS goes... for someone who has issues with focus, the cleaner iOS versions have been easier for me to use. I stuck to Android with simple themes until iOS 7 came out... then I've been in love since!

Overall, its a matter of opinion and taste. The majority of people like the design direction, and that's the way it will continue. If you don't like it, keep using a retro product, stick on your current OS, or jailbreak and install a different theme, or home someone comes up with a "classic theme" for Yosemite!

 

[Ulenspiegel]

...Apple is innovating on a massive scale, actually. I was amazed when they implemented iPods and the iTunes Music Store in the early 2000's; it seemed like a masterful vision that was carried out with strategic precision. Now they're further merging how their devices work together (Continuity), and they've laid the groundwork for an amazing amount of things to come (HomeKit, HealthKit, and the more high-profile Apple Pay, the full capability of which we haven't yet seen). This is amazing innovation. It isn't all here yet, but you can see the direction that Apple is going...

I really respect and appreciate your attitude and as you present your arguments.
Nevertheless I dare disagree with you on one count: Apple has not been innovating since 2011. Upgrading and facelifting products or catching up with the competitors I would not call innovation. As you have mentioned yourself Apple made revolution(s) in many fields till 2011. No significant steps forward since then.
You have a point: Tim Cook has to be given time. That is absolutely fair. But, don't forget at the same time that he has been number one already 3 years.

 

[I7guy]

I really respect and appreciate your attitude and as you present your arguments.
Nevertheless I dare disagree with you on one count: Apple has not been innovating since 2011. Upgrading and facelifting products or catching up with the competitors I would not call innovation. As you have mentioned yourself Apple made revolution(s) in many fields till 2011. No significant steps forward since then.
You have a point: Tim Cook has to be given time. That is absolutely fair. But, don't forget at the same time that he has been number one already 3 years.

I guess innovation means different things to different people. Touch ID, 64 bit, a7, Apple pay off the top of my head. Innovation is not invention. 64 bit is the most important, it lays the groundwork moving forward.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

I guess innovation means different things to different people. Touch ID, 64 bit, a7, Apple pay off the top of my head. Innovation is not invention. 64 bit is the most important, it lays the groundwork moving forward.

New Oxford American Dictionary sheds light on what innovation is:

"innovation |ˌinəˈvāSHən|
noun
the action or process of innovating.
• a new method, idea, product..."

"innovate |ˈinəˌvāt|
verb [ no obj. ]
• [ with obj. ] introduce (something new, esp. a product): innovating new products...
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: from Latin innovat- ‘renewed, altered,’ from the verb innovare, from in- ‘into’ + novare ‘make new’ (from novus ‘new’)."

The idea of paying with your phone, using it as a wallet does not belong to Apple. Google Wallet was introduced on September 19, 2011. It is cross-platform and not restricted to two models.

 

[I7guy]

New Oxford American Dictionary sheds light on what innovation is:

"innovation |ˌinəˈvāSHən|
noun
the action or process of innovating.
• a new method, idea, product..."

"innovate |ˈinəˌvāt|
verb [ no obj. ]
• [ with obj. ] introduce (something new, esp. a product): innovating new products...
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: from Latin innovat- ‘renewed, altered,’ from the verb innovare, from in- ‘into’ + novare ‘make new’ (from novus ‘new’)."

The idea of paying with your phone, using it as a wallet does not belong to Apple. Google Wallet was introduced on September 19, 2011. It is cross-platform and not restricted to two models.

Glad you posted that definition, let's focus on "a new method". Apple didn't invent the mp3 player. (you can websearch for more information on what was available when the ipod was released). It "innovated" the mp3 player into something called an ipod. No, they didn't do anything anybody didn't do, but they put the whole system together in such a way that was different than what was existing prior, and allowed for a system of sharing music that people wanted.

TouchID: Apple didn't invent anything here either. The innovation was putting together a system around the fingerprint reader that made it super-easy to use and nearly flawless.

Apple didn't invent 64 bit either, however they were the first to apply new technology to a mobile phone, besting the competition for a year 1.3 years now, and laying the groundwork for future innovations.

The difference between innovation and invention can be websearched. I've included one link out of hundreds that delve into the topic.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/04/20/using-apples-iphone-to-explain-the-difference-between-invention-and-innovation/

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Glad you posted that definition, let's focus on "a new method". Apple didn't invent the mp3 player. (you can websearch for more information on what was available when the ipod was released). It "innovated" the mp3 player into something called an ipod. No, they didn't do anything anybody didn't do, but they put the whole system together in such a way that was different than what was existing prior, and allowed for a system of sharing music that people wanted.

TouchID: Apple didn't invent anything here either. The innovation was putting together a system around the fingerprint reader that made it super-easy to use and nearly flawless.

Apple didn't invent 64 bit either, however they were the first to apply new technology to a mobile phone, besting the competition for a year 1.3 years now, and laying the groundwork for future innovations.

The difference between innovation and invention can be websearched. I've included one link out of hundreds that delve into the topic.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/04/20/using-apples-iphone-to-explain-the-difference-between-invention-and-innovation/

Again like many times - and in numerous threads - questions are evaded or not answered. I am getting used to it.

Better focus on:

"innovate |ˈinəˌvāt|
verb [ no obj. ]
• [ with obj. ] introduce (something new, esp. a product): innovating new products..."

 

[I7guy]

Again like many times - and in numerous threads - questions are evaded or not answered. I am getting used to it.

Better focus on:

"innovate |ˈinəˌvāt|
verb [ no obj. ]
• [ with obj. ] introduce (something new, esp. a product): innovating new products..."

So when a cogent discussion is happening a snarky and trite answer is given because an Internet point is lost?

It's okay the universe is against you in this one. The stock price won't go down, market cap won't be lost, cook and ive will still be in charge.

The reason Apple is the most valuable tech company is the investors feel Apple is worth it; in spite of your own opinions.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Deleted.

 

[I7guy]

1. You again deliberately and "smartly" evaded to reflect on a certain question. You were kindly asked to focus on a specific aspect. Nota Bene: innovation as per innovating new products. But you employed the same trick like in case of this questions:



2. Many MacRumors members whom you consistently consider to be a minority have an - objective - advantage over you. They have been using a wide range of Apple products for many many years. And loving Apple (the Company) as well as its products does not bother them to be objective. They have been already over the "Apple Fanboy" (my sincere apologies as you don't like this expression) stage. This kind of evolution is still before you.

This will be my last reply on this particular point to avoid having the mods close down the thread due to repetiveness or bickering. You can have the last word.

I am not so entrenched in the Apple ecosystem that I can't see the forest from the trees and admire from afar what Apple has accomplished.

You smartly sidestepped the entire content of my post, which means you are not really Interested in a discussion, which is fine. I kindly asked to you take a look at the link to see what the universe thinks of invention vs innovation that is clearly 180 from what you think of those concepts. I posted a link from a reputable source and even focused on your own definition.

Also posting "this type of evolution is before you" is a thinly veiled insult.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

This will be my last reply on this particular point to avoid having the mods close down the thread due to repetiveness or bickering. You can have the last word.

I am not so entrenched in the Apple ecosystem that I can't see the forest from the trees and admire from afar what Apple has accomplished.

You smartly sidestepped the entire content of my post, which means you are not really Interested in a discussion, which is fine. I kindly asked to you take a look at the link to see what the universe thinks of invention vs innovation that is clearly 180 from what you think of those concepts. I posted a link from a reputable source and even focused on your own definition.

Also posting "this type of evolution is before you" is a thinly veiled insult.

Let me point out at the very outset. Absolutely no insult was meant. I wanted to draw your attention to a process that many Apple fans went through over the years. To show my respect the post will be deleted.

The link that you have provided was interesting and thought-provoking, nevertheless I was interested in your opinion for the sake of discussion on this very question.