Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I wonder if there ever will be a day when decisions, law, politics and society will be driven by science, data, logic and reason. One can only hope.
That's how this mess was sold to you to start with. 7 Signs You May be a Victim of Statism:
  1. You believe you need to be ruled
  2. You display excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to the state
  3. You never question, doubt, or practice dissent for fear of punishment
  4. You’ve been conditioned to believe that the ends justify militaristic means
  5. You are inflicted with feelings of shame or guilt used as methods of control
  6. Your cultish state is preoccupied with making money
  7. You have given into the elitism of the state
Statism in a Nutshell: From Thievery to Tyranny in Five Easy Steps

 
Anyone who wants to run for office should be viewed with suspicion. Isn't it about time we got rid of ALL politicians everywhere. We don't need a 'representative' any more, we have the internet. We can all decide whether something is right, rather than leaving it up to a few people who clearly have their own agendas. In case you can't tell from this rant - I'm 100% behind the tech companies on this. With the ever increasing spread of the internet, virtually everything is now online and because of this, we certainly do need unbreakable encryption and if this means that the authorities can't get their 'evidence' in a few very rare cases then, i'm very sorry but THAT is the price you pay for freedom.
 
Digital banking would be impossible without cryptography. Our entire 21st century relies on crypto. There's no turning back. This bill is not going anywhere because it literally would destroy the entire global economy.
We had digital banking way way before today and the end-to-end "uncrackable" encryption being rolled out now. Thats my point.
[doublepost=1460201023][/doublepost]
Are we really surprised? This is going to be a disaster... politicians don't understand technology.
You are right about them not understanding it thats how Apple has managed to dodge $80 billion in taxes on its business
[doublepost=1460201216][/doublepost]
Not sure if you are trolling or just don't understand how this works. Backdoor for government = backdoor for people much smarter than the retards in the government pushing this crap.

If this passes enjoy having your accounts and basically life stolen from you not by the government but by criminals.


Just so you know I could care less about the government spying on me I have nothing to hide but opening this door to everyone will be chaos so enjoy that.
Definitely not trolling and I have a reasonable understanding (post grad maths degree). We have had digital banking and online communcation for decades without "uncrackable" end to end encryption. Whats changed now ? The companies are rolling this out for other reasons - profit, to avoid responsibility for policing whats on their sites and tonavoid litigation in the event their service is proven to be a tool in illegal activity
 
Ah, the same organization that gave us our beloved abstract-as-hell DMCA with overly broad and restrictive powers that prevents "fair use" for anything that uses copy protection (like encryption) now gives the reverse-osmosis "We the government of 1984 must know everything there is to know when we demand it" Bill.

Above "The Law" ? Sometimes, laws are BAD, even EVIL. I recall this country being founded on the premise that the British had unfair laws that provided no representation of the colonies for their taxes. I would like to know where OUR (we the people) representation is in Congress for our HEAVY TAXES!!!!!! This government does not represent WE THE PEOPLE anymore, but WE THE CORPORATIONS, LOBBYISTS and CORRUPT CRONIES representing those corporations we call a "government". But seeing as we now have a rubber stamp obviously corrupted Supreme Court that declared corporations to be "people" (even a 5 year old knows better than that), I wouldn't trust that court system to tell the truth if my life depended on it!

I can't help but notice that the media pushing HARD against Bernie Sanders more than any other candidate (other than the extreme liberals against Trump and Republican Party against Trump) and I can only surmise that is because Hillary is in their back pocket (4-8 more years of the same) while Trump is a loose cannon and Bernie is an FDR style candidate who wants to put government back to work FOR THE PEOPLE. IMO, EITHER is preferable to another god damn tow-the-status quo corporate serving SHILL where nothing changes and the top 1% get richer and the middle class disappears and we become a 3rd world country (already well on the way there).

I don't care if this country goes back to the middle class of the 1950s-70s or becomes more like Germany. EITHER is preferable to the Corporate States of America where all the jobs are sent to cheap labor countries and then sent back to the USA with no tariffs or charges. Even an economic moron can see that will lead to the mass exodus of high paying US manufacturing jobs yet they continue to tell us free trade is the way to go. It IS the way to go for corporations! They are legal entities (not people) that have no allegiance to a given country since their stock holders can be from anywhere. Thus, PROFIT is their SOLE MOTIVE for doing ANYTHING! How can a corporation that has no country loyalties by default have unlimited money rights to try and RIG elections in this country when the share holders could be from Russia or Saudi Arabia or anywhere else on Earth??? That is the DUMBEST Supreme Court move of ALL TIME and clearly shows where the ones that voted for it loyalties lie, not to the people, but the corporations that make them RICH.

Capitalism without restraints = Oligarchy, not true Capitalism that is meant to BENEFIT the consumer, not remove their jobs and send them to a sweat shop in Panama or China. We need FAIR TRADE (that adjusts tariffs for unequal labor costs) not "FREE" trade (that always benefits the corporations sending factories there and 3rd world countries, but rarely the 1st world country. I see places like Forbes arguing HARD for free trade. Yes, no crap! Forbes is a corporation! It makes 100% economic sense for them to argue for FREE trade instead of FAIR trade. It makes ZERO sense for the citizens of this country who have those jobs to lose and then have to look for service jobs that pay NOTHING by comparison. "Get a degree" doesn't work when we outsource high-end jobs also (e.g. Computer Science jobs to India or worker programs that bring them here). There are a LOT of people that have degrees who are now in debt up to their armpits and STILL can't find a job. Let them get a different degree, Marie cries! Ah, but we won't pass any bills that help with job retraining or getting a different degree because we sent all our jobs overseas or to Mexico.

Let's face it. Corporations have a vested interest in doing ANYTHING to make money and that means screwing over the country or state they are currently in and all their blue-collar workers if need be to make MORE money. The shareholders not only generally like this; they LOVE it since it's not their jobs, lost tax revenue (from said workers) or life that is ruined by these souless "people" whose "sole" function is to serve Mamon (the money worshipers' deity of choice). Of course, the top 1% agree with corporations and a lot of clueless people that don't have a clue what this does to America or the national debt in turn as well.
 
Last edited:
So are you for Ted Cruz(44), and not Hillary Clinton(68), Donald Trump(69), or Bernie Sanders(74)?

I think I was referring to voters. But even so, there are always outliers so it is not possible to apply a generality to specific people. Unless of course they fit the general perception.
 
Now the goobers on the left will hopefully see just how dangerous the big government they support is and wake up to their mistakes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjm3
If this bill ever becomes law is the day I throw my cell phone in the trash and go "off the grid".

No you won't ;)

I would believe you if you said you would remove all personal data from your phone or modify the way you use it... But getting rid of any mobile phone?
Sorry, I struggle to believe that.
 
Are we really surprised? This is going to be a disaster... politicians don't understand technology.
Actually I think they do - or at least they completely believe the twisted logic the spy agencies tell them. Either way it seems like it's just a matter of time before Americans lose all their rights and privacy. The power hungry have an insatiable appetite and won't stop until they cause an irreparable social and economic collapse. I fear this is what the donor class has wanted for decades, so they can step in and install their own version of govt/totalitarian state - complete with a completely oppressed peasant class to serve them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rbrian
I must say, governments are literally turning into 1984. They want to see and listen to everything you do, monitor you 24 hours. Every single person, suspect or not.

2 problems :
1-There are people(voters) who actually agree that people should give up their privacy

2-Those who want to break the law can just go back to using code words. One of the easier methods is just to agree on a book "Wizard of Oz" , then just send numbers based on "page number-line number-letter number in sequence".
212-14-5.

Sure it will take longer to decode, but they can communicate none the less.

I have no problem with governments searching a suspect, just like they get a search warrant on homes. Mass surveillance is the problem.
 
and where are you from, that the government's any better?

I don't know what you expect when primates get democracy.
I didn't say other governments are better. Pulling straws?
Besides, just because other governments are not as good doesn't mean this is excusable.
[doublepost=1460211738][/doublepost]
It's amazing politicians can just draft bills and pass laws when they have 0 expertise on the particular subject.

I wonder if there ever will be a day when decisions, law, politics and society will be driven by science, data, logic and reason. One can only hope.
What's even more amazing is that the people keep voting for the same politicians again and again.
Kinda tells you who are the ones that not up to snuff in logic and science.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nt5672
Just like every other elected pitchman with "people skills", that are the most successful at winning elections, but once elected have no knowledge or capacity for understanding any of the things they're tasked with promoting, authoring, and voting on.

We have a 1700s agrarian government that is already and increasingly incapable of informed, rational, constructive governance in a highly technical and rapidly advancing time. If a government wants its decisions and laws to be laughed off, ignored completely and be seen as obsolete, this is how to go about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nt5672
We had digital banking way way before today and the end-to-end "uncrackable" encryption being rolled out now. Thats my point.
[doublepost=1460201023][/doublepost]
You are right about them not understanding it thats how Apple has managed to dodge $80 billion in taxes on its business
[doublepost=1460201216][/doublepost]
Definitely not trolling and I have a reasonable understanding (post grad maths degree). We have had digital banking and online communcation for decades without "uncrackable" end to end encryption. Whats changed now ? The companies are rolling this out for other reasons - profit, to avoid responsibility for policing whats on their sites and tonavoid litigation in the event their service is proven to be a tool in illegal activity

First of all, RSA has been around since 1977. I don't think there was much digital banking before then.

What's changed now? Everything. The internet is ubiquitous, cyber criminals and scammers are everywhere. Good luck trying to have any type of digital banking without cryptographic signatures for authentication. Nearly every single service and device on the internet uses cryptography.

How the hell is a network administrator supposed to manage their servers without SSH? You want us to go back to telnet? Might as well just hold up a huge sign that says "HACK ME NOW".


There's 800+ free and open source crypto libraries available on the internet. 500+ of them are made by people outside of the US. The cat is out of the bag and he is not going back in. This bill would do nothing but put law abiding people and companies at risk and would do nothing about "terrorists". ISIS has their own secure messaging system with their own e2e encryption.

If you take away guns from the good guys, only bad guys will have guns. Same thing for encryption.
 
Capitalism's restraint is the consumer. You don't want to support a company, then don't buy its products.

What is absurd is that people keep defending a system designed to completely **** them over. The brainless followers of the religion of Statism is what makes the psychopathic criminals in charge able to stay in office perpetually.

 
The real problem is that this kind of bill was created at all. This is just the first step is what in bound to be some kind of horrible legislation that will subject millions of people to having their bank accounts hacked, their personal messages read and medical information being up for sale to hackers.

Frankenstein .. I mean Feinstein will surely come back with some other nearly as bad legislation that does the same thing - just worded so it SEEMS less like they just tore up the constitution.:mad:


All that information is already available to hackers, data aggregation companies, and large tech corporations like Google. The government doesn't need to hack your phone at all. It's their Constitutional duty to address these issues in Congress as part of the legislative process. Would you rather they ignore the issue and let it be settled in the courts? This way the information is public and there can be a discussion. Is this bill crap? Yeah, but the mindless "government = bad" refrain is naive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: robeddie
My Project Management teacher used to work at the Pentagon. Her boss (I forgot his name) wanted to have everything under one single system, so he could check the billing and the progress of everything. She told him they needed 9 systems minimun (I do not remember why). The problem was that the Pentagon had 16 thousand isolated systems! There was in no way, a way to overview the spending.

She started the project and she was sabotaged by every department. After a year the project was 30% delayed. She left before the project was concluded after two years. Today she says... the project was completed and never used. Each branch and each office manage their budged and their contractors without supervision and no controls.

Imagine that. What can you expect?
 
That's how this mess was sold to you to start with. 7 Signs You May be a Victim of Statism:
  1. You believe you need to be ruled
  2. You display excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to the state
  3. You never question, doubt, or practice dissent for fear of punishment
  4. You’ve been conditioned to believe that the ends justify militaristic means
  5. You are inflicted with feelings of shame or guilt used as methods of control
  6. Your cultish state is preoccupied with making money
  7. You have given into the elitism of the state
Statism in a Nutshell: From Thievery to Tyranny in Five Easy Steps


Ok, im with ya on this particular issue, but that horrible 'conspiracy theorist' propoganda of a video just turns me off completely. Let me guess, you also believe it was Bush who took down the twin towers, that the government is hiding ufo's, and that bigfoot exists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: You are the One
These guys don't understand security at all!

If they open it up for law enforcement, they open it for everyone. There is no special case that does not compromise a user's security.

this is ludacris

Welcome to American politics. We have Joe Barton on a science committee. Farmers on Appropriations Committees, etc, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjm3
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.