SJ and Ryan Tate go at it via email at 2AM!

[Cloudane]

I do find Jobs somewhat arrogant in many cases (don't get me wrong I love the products etc etc) but major credit to him for bothering to reply and not stooping to the other guy's level. I don't think if I was in his shoes I'd have taken the guy seriously.

The blogger lost my respect when he started swearing all over the place. Anyone with some decent skill in argument and conversation shouldn't need to swear at people to get their point across, IMO.

Therefore Jobs wins the argument by default.

 

[s1m]

I think the "you have a choice not to buy or use apple products" is a little shaky at the moment.

If you want a mobile tablet/slate type device you actually don't have a choice - you can pretty much only buy the iPad right now. Other products will come but people don't have a choice other than to not have this category of product at all.

Saying that - I couldnt give a dash about Flash - I want to use games that work when I am not connected to the internet, productivity apps that work and don't crash my machine and I don't want to slow down my device by having to install antivirus software because suspect products and software may allow "nasties" onto my platform.

 

[wovel]

We can defer to Steve's vision as the Apple mobile platform gets overwhelmed by Google. Android is growing much faster than iPad/iPhone. That has a lot to do with the open nature of Android.

First your statement is inaccurate overall. Second, any growth Android phones have seen has a lot more to do with being free. People that are willing to but phones are still choosing the iPhone.

I really am, I see it this serious, honestly.

This stuff is getting out of hand now, why should I buy hardware that I own and be told what I can view and when I can view it. Just because I'm a Flash user and want to develop? for Flash means I can't because of who I am.

So if you get your iPad home and it does not support flash, return it. No one made you buy it. If you were ignorant of its capabilities when your purchased it, return it.

Comparing not being able to use flash on the iPhone/pad to racism is perhaps the most insulting thing ever posted on this forum. You have belittled the millions of people that have suffered at the hands of racism.

Let me make this easy for you, people do not choose their race, you have chosen flash. I think you owe an apology to everyone on the planet who has ever experienced racism.

I can not continue my post without violating the ToS. (Something I am pretty sure you have already done).

 

[yiswitched]

What creative things have you contributed? Pot, kettle, black.

I've authored over 100 published songs and countless ques and stingers for broadcast radio and televesion, that should count for something shouldn't it? I may not be Steve Jobs but I've made my living out of being creative. There's nothing wrong with my kettle. And you?

 

[dbwie]

By 'freedom' Jobs means 'restriction'. The guy is sounding more and more like a modern age fascist.


He leads singularly.
He believes his values and belief system are the only ones that are right.
He wages war on opposing technology to his values, shutting them out instead of competing side by side.

All successful companies start with values and beliefs, and make products that are tangible proof of their values and beliefs. Most other less successful companies have lost sight of their values and beliefs, or why they do what they do, and end up competing in the commodities market. Most iPhone users cannot name the third party developers who make each of the apps on their phone, and if any part of the iPhone/App Store experience is subpar or objectionable, it is a reflection of Apple. If Flash is allowed and runs poorly on the iPhone, most iPhone users will conclude that there is something wrong with the phone. Apple is just defending/upholding their brand with the app store approval and flash controversies, and making sure that their products are a reflection of their purpose for existence as a company.

 

[itotah]

choice

i think a lot of people are too. but we should be given our own choice to decide what we want to do.

You do have a choice: There's the internet, there's Android phones, there's the magazine rack at the late night liquor store, are certain cable channels... Your argument is as silly as demanding porn on NBC so you could have a "choice." Change the channel dude. Buy another phone... please.

I, for one, am thrilled to have a phone minus the porn.

 

[roxnadz]

As others told you over and over, there is no need for you to buy them then. Many of us appreciate what they are doing. People seem to think by having flash on there we would have a choice to use it or not. That is not true, if flash were used then websites would FORCE us to use it.

You mean like how having Windows on the Mac via BootCamp has forced us to use Windows?

Yeah this is something that drives me nuts. One of my favorite shows is Criminal Minds. However it deals in very serious matter with serial killers and really depraved stuff. This is on during the second hour of primetime in the United States. It is a very gruesome and disturbing show, and for the life of me can't figure out why it is on at 8:00pm where I live. I would be much more worried about kids watching that then some show with a girl with big boobs in a bikini.

It's on because it sells, duh. And you can't see boobs in the paper in America because any talk about sex or sexuality in this country is wrong, evil, nasty, etc. unless it's about creating germ-infested babies that poop all over the place but look cute.

This has to be one of Jobs's personal crusades, and one I'm completely in disagreement with. Technology is one thing - I don't care if you don't want Flash running on your products. But don't you dare tell me what external content I can or can't look at just because I use your device to do it, and because you don't like that kind of content.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I've authored over 100 published songs and countless ques and stingers for broadcast radio and televesion, that should count for something shouldn't it?

Then you sure sound like an authority in media publishing, but not an authority on anything relevant to this thread.

And you?

I'm not the one who is saying that a person who isn't as prolific of a creator doesn't have the right to critique their work.

 

[nooaah]

Excuse me but however anybody puts it, it's still control. People keep saying that 'don't buy it if you want Flash', now if I opened a club saying nobody but whites are allowed in would people say 'just go elsewhere' NO, it's controlling and me stopping people who want to come into the club.

I'm sick of these idiotic moves that have been allowed recently... first the internet piracy crack down and now this... why should I be told what I can do and where I can do it.

No Flash is only affecting it's users... Flash is very powerful, and users should have a flippin choice what they want to use... the app store is another thing. Also you have to pay for a license to develop software for the Mac? I heard this and if it's true that's ridiculous and Mac is much more money hungry than Microsoft... people need to stop bumlicking Apple.

Hahahaha.

 

[SteveSparks]

Excuse me but however anybody puts it, it's still control. People keep saying that 'don't buy it if you want Flash', now if I opened a club saying nobody but whites are allowed in would people say 'just go elsewhere' NO, it's controlling and me stopping people who want to come into the club.

I'm sick of these idiotic moves that have been allowed recently... first the internet piracy crack down and now this... why should I be told what I can do and where I can do it.

No Flash is only affecting it's users... Flash is very powerful, and users should have a flippin choice what they want to use... the app store is another thing. Also you have to pay for a license to develop software for the Mac? I heard this and if it's true that's ridiculous and Mac is much more money hungry than Microsoft... people need to stop bumlicking Apple.

No other mobile devices support flash. Have adobe beta test somewhere else.

 

[yiswitched]

Some part of me thinks that this whole conversation was fabricated by Ryan to make Steve Jobs look like a coldhearted "dictator" to try and wipe away some of the "cool factor" Apple has. After all, his place of business is about to get their ass sued off the face of the earth, and that could mean a loss of a job for him.

In the process he just made himself look like a self important *******.

Tell him what he's won Dave!

Note to the people who can't see the obvious, if you're going to tug on Superman's cape have the juice to do so. Steve made him look like the idiot he is by simply having the superior IQ.

 

[Krauser]

Yeah, the one thing I say to myself when I sift through the endless pages of worthlessness on the app store to get to something worthwhile is "gee... I think this needs more worthless crap and porn..."

Jobs is right... I mean, yeah denying some apps, like the recent wi-fi sync, is disappointing but it's their company and if you really want porn that bad, just go to a page in safari because pretty much any porn site has a mobile non-flash version, and make an icon on your screen that links to it. It's that simple. I would understand if there was restriction of the sites safari can view, but there isn't. The app store is regulated by Apple; it's their creation. The internet is not under their control. Use that if you want porn that bad on your iPod/iPhone/iPad.

 

[yiswitched]

Then you sure sound like an authority in media publishing, but not an authority on anything relevant to this thread.


I'm not the one who is saying that a person who isn't as prolific of a creator doesn't have the right to critique their work.

No what you said was I was the pot calling the kettle black, now your just a pathetic liar. It's not very difficult for even the most challenged of people to click back a few pages.

 

[macbookpro13]

I think the "you have a choice not to buy or use apple products" is a little shaky at the moment.

If you want a mobile tablet/slate type device you actually don't have a choice - you can pretty much only buy the iPad right now. Other products will come but people don't have a choice other than to not have this category of product at all.

Saying that - I couldnt give a dash about Flash - I want to use games that work when I am not connected to the internet, productivity apps that work and don't crash my machine and I don't want to slow down my device by having to install antivirus software because suspect products and software may allow "nasties" onto my platform.

Yes you do have a choice still. It's "buy ipad or don't buy ipad". This is how things work. Apple makes a product. You read up about it, play around with it. You decide if it's worth your money or not. It isn't. You don't buy it. Done.

 

[MacBookDan]

First your statement is inaccurate overall. Second, any growth Android phones have seen has a lot more to do with being free. People that are willing to but phones are still choosing the iPhone.



So if you get your iPad home and it does not support flash, return it. No one made you buy it. If you were ignorant of its capabilities when your purchased it, return it.

Comparing not being able to use flash on the iPhone/pad to racism is perhaps the most insulting thing ever posted on this forum. You have belittled the millions of people that have suffered at the hands of racism.

Let me make this easy for you, people do not choose their race, you have chosen flash. I think you owe an apology to everyone on the planet who has ever experienced racism.

I can not continue my post without violating the ToS. (Something I am pretty sure you have already done).

There was no racism in my post whatsoever, talking about race is not racism... if so there is more control in which you're under... now I can't even talk about how life is? I've suffered racial attacks myself, do I get offended by someone saying something about it? Nope...

I'm not going to apologies for something that I've used as an example... you can't even talk about Hitler in schools anymore since it's classed as racism... again more control.

You say you can't choose your race, well I had no choice on whether or not the iPad had Flash did I?

 

[macbookpro13]

First your statement is inaccurate overall. Second, any growth Android phones have seen has a lot more to do with being free. People that are willing to but phones are still choosing the iPhone.



So if you get your iPad home and it does not support flash, return it. No one made you buy it. If you were ignorant of its capabilities when your purchased it, return it.

Comparing not being able to use flash on the iPhone/pad to racism is perhaps the most insulting thing ever posted on this forum. You have belittled the millions of people that have suffered at the hands of racism.

Let me make this easy for you, people do not choose their race, you have chosen flash. I think you owe an apology to everyone on the planet who has ever experienced racism.

I can not continue my post without violating the ToS. (Something I am pretty sure you have already done).

And his analogy is completely wrong too. It would be correct only if Apple allowed white people to buy their stuff.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

you can't even talk about Hitler in schools anymore since it's classed as racism... again more control.

I graduated high school last year and this is far from the truth.

 

[Xibalba]

Ryan Tate sounds like a 12 year old in his emails to a world-famous CEO.

agree.

not smart to take on Jobs head-to-head on anything Apple, but especially if you are gonna sound like an immature idiot...

 

[MacBookDan]

I graduated high school last year and this is far from the truth.

Not in the UK when you get to high school. My cousin just joined and they refused to talk about World War and German history.

 

[gnasher729]

Apple wont let developers make dedicated porn apps? How many dedicated porn apps are you running on your Mac or PC? Oh that right...it's called a browser. The fact is, there's plenty of porn to be found for the iPad and porn sites will offer non flash porn content if enough people want it. If your still not getting the porn you want on the iPad then take a break from you "hobby" and create an iPad friendly porn site yourself.

On your Mac or PC, there is no way you would ever want to run a "porn" application. Such an application would come from a highly untrustworthy source and would be able to do lots of things with your computer that you wouldn't want it to do. No way you could allow that as a user. On the iPhone, well, as far as I know it is quite hard for one application to access things on your iPhone that it shouldn't access. But still, downloading a dedicated "porn" application would just be asking for trouble.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Not in the UK when you get to high school. My cousin just joined and they refused to talk about World War and German history.

Those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it. I'll see you in WWIII.

 

[awmazz]

Awful, awful "article".

Still, Jobs' replies are pretty pathetic too. Freedom from porn? What a joke. Way to completely fail to understand what freedom means. Maybe I should move to China so I can get freedom from porn, foreign news, and government opposition! I love how he speaks like porn, information theft, and high battery drain apps are only associated with the "PC", LOL!

Is this guy turning senile or does he just get more and more out of touch with the world with each passing day?

What the heck are you talking about? Freedom is choice. You can choose no porn on iPad or porn-a-plenty on another platform. Nobody's infringing on your freedom to choose. Just like freedom from religion and freedom of religion.

What do you want? To force Apple to include porn? Where's the freedom in that scenario? 'Everyone must comply' is actually the communist scenario you are using.

 

[SFC Archer]

Nono lol, I do not aree with piracy, but the fact that all bandwidth is now monitored and I'm being told to not use torrents (I do download legally you know). People get wrongly accused.

Since you do not condone piracy then you must understand that many, many people do and feel all that I posted should be free to them and thus the creation and enforcement of copy-write laws. It is the bad apples that ruin it for the rest and those torrent p2p sites are the main reason so much media is pirated. Putting a control or restriction on bandwidth is not a bad thing as long as it is not misused. The laws will determine what misuse is but to protect programmers like you, and all of the others, it is currently a necessity.

I'm a coder myself, I mainly code in VB.NET and C++, I do get paid for my work of course but I'm saying that I thought the tools for the Mac were £££, I've never programmed for another platform you see, I've always been Windows based.

I would also love to program for the iPhone but I am unwilling to buy a Mac and Apple has not seen fit to release programming tools for Windows users to use. I have accepted this and feel that it is Steve's right to release his development software to only Mac users. This is my choice, not an infringement of my rights or freedoms.

Nope, all should be paid, my point is that control has gone crazy recently... in the UK we have to pay for a TV license, which we have no choice and costs £££ and if you don't have a license (yes a license for a TV?) you get fined ££££ and go to prison... control?

And all programming content in the U.S. is also controlled by the respective media companies. If we do not purchase cable or satellite TV then we may if we are lucky be able to pick up a channel or three. The content we view is also controlled. I cannot go on at anytime and watch anything I want. Life and the things we do in life are controlled and will always be. Being told what to do will remain a societal factor for eons. Someone or something will always be there to restrict, control or tell you what to do.

Nope, controlling who can use the application when everybody needs it (which they do with Flash) is stupid.

But it is a choice made by a "private" company. This is not a government agency or publicly controlled company that can demand certain things take place. This is a private company owned by a business group that have determined what their product will be and how it is released. If the product stops selling because it does not have flash or porn apps (which seems to be the major discussion of this thread) then Apple will either change policy or they will stop selling the product. It is their choice as owners and stockholders of the company...not ours, the consumer. We can only buy and use what is available and either adapt to it or find the product that meets our exact needs and then purchase it. No one is saying its right or wrong but we are saying that we all have to make choices on what we use if it meets our expectations then great, if not, then do not buy any more Apple products.


Again, hopefully you were not offended as I did not intend it and know that you are not pirating.

 

[marksman]

Would this make everyone happy?

No because the people who hit that switch would lie cry and moan to apple when something went wrong and claim the machine flipped itself and they didn't do it.


People want the freedom to do anything but take responsibility for their own actions.

I graduated high school last year and this is far from the truth.

Ah...

 

[makingdots]

zzz