Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Skylake CPUs for next MB. (merged)
- Thread starter dubydoo
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
If people disagree with my opinion and are owed a reply, I reply to them.
This is a discussion forum. You know what that means, right? It's a place to share views and debate them. If you're looking to get a message to Apple about how desperately important Skylake is to you, hit them up on Twitter or Facebook. You know, two-way social media sites, direct to manufacturers. They're not reading this. I'm not some impediment to your objective. I'm just a RMB owner with an opinion.
BJ
If it weren't for Apple, innovation like Thunderbolt and Lightning wouldn't exist, or would take decades longer. I don't think Apple is niche by design, but they value innovation and "being different" more than market share. The day Apple changes its philosophy or culture is the day you will not have something as sleek as the rMB in your hands anymore. Regardless of your opinion about OS X, you still wouldn't trade your rMB in for a Dell right now. USB is king, not Thunderbolt, I agree, but without Thunderbolt, USB-C would not be where it is going now. I think you're quick to judge and put down. Not telling you how to "be," but a less grating tone would help you out here. Unless you like being flamed, then by all means continue...
I'm the one that's generally under attack here, I'm the lonely Windows guy in a forum of Apple zealots. As such, I don't think there is any way for me to avoid the flames. I can handle them though. They can be entertaining. But most people make assumptions and come after me, it's not the other way around.
As for Thunderbolt, I'd never heard of it, doesn't mean it's a bad thing, it's just not something universal like Lightning is right now. And, of course, that has to do with the tremendous popularity of iOS devices and the unpopularity of OSX devices.
Big picture, we're all fortunate to live in a world where a massively large company cares so much about niche products. It's truly Apple's biggest accomplishment. That said, Apple is successful because they pay attention to the features and the financials, and the financials say the RMB is just fine without Skylake and methinks they're going to delay its inclusion or skip it entirely. The things that move the needle for the RMB and would sell more units have to do with form factor, not processing speeds. I can see Apple stopping the production line if someone invented a new aluminum that was 50% lighter, or a new 1080p camera that was 50% thinner, or a new battery that weighed 50% less. Physical improvements to a device that's all about portability. Improvements that have to do with processors belong to the Pro and the Air, two conventional notebooks with conventional consumers.
BJ
You've got a long way to go, young one. When USB-C becomes mainstream because of connectivity made possible by Thunderbolt, you'll know who to thank. Just enjoy the benefits of all the contributions by all companies instead of spending time bashing, that might help.
It just makes more business sense to keep the rMB up to date with the latest processors than having it sit on the shelf being old for more than a year. It's not about speed, really. It makes more sense for them to update it rather than not. Think of the analogy like why some Walmarts stay open 24 hours. They've done their research. It costs more for them to close down everyday and then reopen than it does to just keep it open constantly. Same concept here.
I don't think it takes much imagination to see that the rMB will eventually take the role of the lower-cost Mac portable. Apple has always had a lower-cost Mac portable, and a high-performance Mac portable. iBook and PowerBook; later Macbook and Macbook Pro, and today Macbook Air and Macbook Pro.
The only time Apple added a third niche product in Mac portables lineup in the past was in anticipation of phasing out another. The MBA was introduced as a niche product, and within two years it was the mainstream low-cost Mac portable and the regular Macbook was phased out. The current rMB is in the same place, it is the niche, until Apple phases out the Air and the rMB will be the defacto lower-cost Mac Portable.
There are so many similarities this time around, and they have all been listed ad nauseam on this forum. The only question is when. Last time, Apple went 2 years between introducing the MBA and phasing out the MB. During that time, they bumped the processor specs of the MBA twice, though only once for a major generational improvement which was less than a year after initial introduction. This was when the MBA was very expensive, underpowered for most users on this forum, and lacked ports - and people had the MBP and MB options available as well.
If history repeats itself, the Apple will bump the rMB to Skylake this year. They might do another Skylake spec-bump again in a year when Intel refreshes the lineup a bit, though I doubt it. By the time Cannonlake arrives in late 2017 or so, with it's promises of energy efficiency and cost-reduction, the MBA will be phased out and the Cannonlake rMB will be the lower-cost Mac Portable.
However, I hope Apple doesn't wait that long. They also need to re-energize Mac sales now that they expect iPhone sale rates to fall for the first time soon. So, it would not be totally unreasonable to predict that Apple will phase out the MBA sooner and replace it with the rMB at some point in 2016.
As I understand it, Thunderbolt has nothing to do with USB-C as a standard, strictly speaking. USB-C is the physical port; the protocols it can carry are a separate issue. I don't see how Thunderbolt gets the credit for USB-C becoming standard. If anything, the future proliferation of USB-C might help Thunderbolt proliferate as well.
[doublepost=1454444614][/doublepost]
You bring up a good point here. Apple has obviously ridden the iPod/iPhone/iPad wave for a decade and a half. I don't think it's a stretch to say that those sales have fueled their computer sales to some degree too. But if we're reaching "peak iPhone" as some have called it, Apple might be motivated to dedicate a little more time and attention to their computers again, to include a larger marketing push to the general public.
USB-C will carry Thunderbolt 3, no? USB-C looks set to be the connectivity standard in the future and can harness the power of TB (high I/O speeds, daisy-chaining, and audio/video connectivity). In this way, wouldn't TB get some credit for USB-C becoming popular (and hopefully standard)?
Good post, the only thing that perhaps we'll disagree on is that I see the Air becoming the low-cost MacBook for emerging markets like India and China, it's bigger and heavier and older, no different than the iPhone 5C. Plus, the lack of legacy ports on the very-thin RMB wouldn't make it suitable for that low-end market, they still own wired mice, VGA monitors, USB thumb drives, etc.
BJ
Last edited by a moderator:
You're mixing up the physical port with the various protocols. USB-C is just a standard for the physical connection, just as USB-A and -B have been since the 90's. But note that the USB-A physical port has been used to carry the USB 1, 2, and 3 protocols. Thunderbolts 1 and 2 used the DisplayPort physical port, and incorporate the DisplayPort protocol to carry video. It was announced last June (or so) that Thunderbolt 3 (a protocol) would utilize the USB-C port; USB-C had already been announced officially in late summer of 2014. It came about because several computer manufacturers wanted a different physical port for, primarily, the USB 3.1 protocol.
And to answer your first question, a USB-C cable does not have to carry Thunderbolt 3; indeed, the current rMB USB-C port doesn't.
For more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C
I'm not mixing it up. I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure you're understanding what I'm saying.
To be clear, TB 1 and 2 use the Mini DisplayPort physical port, not DisplayPort as you mentioned.
I'm saying USB-C will be popular and the standard for years to come because of the advancements provided by TB. I'm fully aware that not all USB-C ports are capable of TB 3 right now.
As I see it, the thing that Skylake purportedly offers that will "move the needle" for the rMB is improved battery life. I agree with you that the main focus of the rMB is portability. Battery life is one of the biggest factors affecting portability (right after size/weight). Having the size/weight nailed, improving battery improves portability (just like the 2013 update to the previous portability king Mac--the MB Air). Although I agree that the current battery life is "enough," more is better. I routinely got 10 hours out of my MB Air. I get maybe 8 with the rMB, and that's a compromise I could and do live with. But if Apple can keep everything else the same and squeeze another hour of battery life out of the rMB by updating to Skylake, I believe they'll do it.
I am dumbfounded as to why some people think the rMB does not need a faster processor. Processor speed is never high enough. While the current processor may handle the present programs well, there's no guarantee how things will look like 2 years down the road. The general trend is that the programmes we run on our computers always become more resource hungry.
The present rMB resembles the MBA from late 2010. MBA 2011 received a twice faster processor which opened up a lot more use cases for the laptop. I agree that the 15-20% improvement the SkyLake may be seen as insignifficant but it's a step in the right direction - and it will help Apple sell more computers and that's actually what they want.
The present rMB resembles the MBA from late 2010. MBA 2011 received a twice faster processor which opened up a lot more use cases for the laptop. I agree that the 15-20% improvement the SkyLake may be seen as insignifficant but it's a step in the right direction - and it will help Apple sell more computers and that's actually what they want.
I agree. The current lineup doesn't make sense: The rMBP at the top, the rMB at the bottom (still an niche product), and the MBA in-between. The MBA is faster and has more ports than the rMB, but it lacks a Retina display and is a bit heavier. Adding a Retina screen to the MBA would push the rMB even deeper into its niche - I and, I suspect, many other buyers would choose an upgraded MBA over the rMB. It makes more sense to update the rMB and phase out the MBA at some point.
As Roller also noted if it was about sales the MBA would of got Retina enough users hoped for that for the last 2 years or more
The only consistency in Apple is the inconsistency, none of us can fathom or second guess what and why the come up with these days
I think it makes sense as a temporary arrangement. People are nervous about the rMB, so in the next year or two, the MBA will remain a safe and inexpensive choice for ultra-portable until the rMB is more widely accepted and proven and/or the rMBP have a redesign to make them a bit lighter.
The simple answer is this: The RMB is a notebook for those who don't care about processing power, so increasing it 15% or 20% or 50% doesn't matter. Getting to Facebook a few milliseconds faster means nothing to us.
You need to stop thinking of the RMB as some conventional notebook for the conventional Mac owner. It's an unconventional notebook for those of us who never stretch our machines to the limit and are tired of dragging around bulk and weight and fans and ports to support a use-case we simply don't have. The RMB is the iOS notebook. Think Different. Seriously.
BJ
I appreciate your opinion/position on the rMB and your reasons for why Apple won't upgrade it to Skylake. I think Apple will do a Skylake upgrade based simply on historical precedent, but more importantly, to drive sales. Yes, it's true that opening Safari millisecond faster to get to Facebook doesn't matter, but it's not about the objective improvements that Skylake will bring that matter. I think Apple is interested in an upgrade mainly for the marketing side of the equation in order to drive sales. This is especially true if they do release a larger, 14" version and replace the Air.
[doublepost=1454534185][/doublepost]
I don't see how TB brings any advancement to USB-C. If Intel/Apple decided to keep TB3 on the DP port, I don't think it would make any difference to the proliferation of USB-C as a connection standard; there's way to much gain from it besides TB3-level data transfer rates: DC power, 4K/5K graphics, and USB 3.1 data rates. Those 3 capabilities alone make USB-C an excellent single-cable docking solution or multi-use port that satisfies 95% of computer users. Most people just don't need TB3-level data transfer. But hey, I'm happy to agree to disagree.
[doublepost=1454535116][/doublepost]
I'm using a 2010 iMac as my home computer, and every time I sit down to use it, I'm more than satisfied with its processor power. I upgraded to an SSD and 8GB of RAM, and it's been more than adequate for my needs for the 3+ years I've owned it (bought it used off Craigslist). I can understand that power users and pros that actually do heavy tasks would want a faster processor, but for the market that the rMB is aimed at, processor power is fine and probably will be for a while. To put it another way: emailing, web browsing, and streaming Netflix is no faster on a Mac Pro than it is on an Air.
I agree it'll help them sell more computers, but more from a marketing perspective than anything else. Apple being able to tout a Skylake rMB as the fastest ultraportable computer out there will sell more rMBs than any objective advantage that Skylake might bring.
I agree with this statement don't know why people have such tantrums for an opinion. While we may care and hope for a high spec skylake processor I would say an overwhelming majority of rMB owners could care less what processor is in there machine. As long as it is not sluggish and beach balling / lagging when opening up safari, email, pages etc. most will not care if skylake could do it 25 milliseconds faster. The broad well core M offers more than enough performance and personally my 1.3ghz spec is very snappy for the simple task I use it for.
I'm a bit of a tech/spec geek and would love skylake for the increased performance that I don't really need for what I use the machine for anyway but I can understand I am in a very small group and the upgrade is not necessary at all. I guess time will tell which direction they go in I can see it going either way. The sleep/battery drain issues with skylake might push apple away from an upgrade since broad well is doing just fine and they might wait out for kaby lake core M's.
So was the Macbook Air.
So was the Macbook Air.
So was the Macbook Air.
I found this excerpt on Wikipedia regarding the MBA, give it a read.
"Following its introduction, the MacBook Air was greeted with a mixed reception. The portability of the MacBook Air was praised in reviews, but the compromise in features was criticized.[89][90][91] The full-sized keyboard, weight, thinness, and Multi-Touch trackpad were appreciated in reviews, while the limited configuration options and ports, slow speed (in non-SSD models), non-user-replaceable battery, small hard drive, and price were criticized.[89][90] The flip-down hatch on the side of the original MacBook Air is a tight fit for some headphone plugs and USB devices, requiring users to purchase an extension cable. Apple removed the flip-down hatch on the late 2010 model in favor of open connection ports, as is the case with most other laptops.[92][93] "
Does any of it sound familiar?
Here's the last part of the Wikipedia article:
"Most of these problems have been dismissed by now, following many revisions and speed enhancements, and with the addition of more portability and ports."
Seriously, BJ. Think Different.
Last edited:
The original MacBook Air with the non SSD drive was actually really slow though and it affected normal tasks. The rMB in my experience is much faster most likely due to the PCI SSD. The air needed the spec bump (especially an SSD) it was a gimped machine I do not experience that at all with the rMB. The Skylake iGPU gains due look very promising though and if I could do some light gaming on the go it would make the overall experience even better.
As long as it can run Civilization 4 and Baldurs Gate, then I am happy, I am quite sure even the current model does it just fine. 8)
Not sure what your point is. I believe you're saying that in the last 8 years Apple added ports and power to the Air as advances in technology and miniaturization allowed for more space to accommodate them.
Okay, well, 8 years ago there was no Cloud, there was no iOS dominance, there was no AirDrop, there was no Dropbox, there was no LTE cellular network, wi-fi crawled like a turtle. Ports were needed back then. We all used thumb drives to move files, we all used SD cards to move photos, we all used external drives for backup, we all used iTunes for iPod sync'ing.
Today, it's a completely different world. Ports aren't necessary, they're annoying, they're a reminder of how things used to be and not how things currently are. I haven't used an SD card for 5 years, never used Micro-USB, I don't want to carry these ports around all the time, adding weight, adding thickness, drawing battery.
And don't forget- the Air was the only alternative to the heavy Pro and White MacBook at the time. The RMB co-exists with the Air, it's got even more justification to be lighter/thinner/wireless. Consumers now have two ultralight's to choose from, if the RMB lacks ports and power, hello, just get an Air.
Your history lesson shows that the Air was ahead of its time and made people unhappy. Judging from how few complaints there are and how strong sales appear to be, the RMB is right on time and thrills its users.
BJ
Those last few pages with BJ's posts and quotes removed 1) look really funny and 2) make no sense whatsoever.
I'm leaving this thread but I'll be back when they announce new Skylake rMB in June or so
I'm leaving this thread but I'll be back when they announce new Skylake rMB in June or so
- Status