So much anger and bitterness here and everywhere. Why ?

[Ethosik]

I seriously do not understand the obsession with MagSafe. Are you tripping over your cables THAT much? I prefer charging on any port vs MagSafe.
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Its not the pricing that bothers me - its the lack of Pro-ness. The "improvements" are not Pro-centric, they're totally anal and beyond stupid. Like trying to hit that 4lb and 3lb exact mark, the crazy needless emphasis on thinness, etc. Just build a proper PRO laptop and people won't be complaining like.

And that's just it - if you want to abandon the Mac, you're stuck moving to Windows. But there's no real pro Macs left - its all prosumer junk instead. The Mac Pro has been mostly abandoned again, the MBP has been prosumerized.

And the cost cutting in the name of greater profits well that's just downright sad to see. Like not including an extension cord for the power brick. So people complain about the Magsafe - heck Apple should have included a USB-C power cable with a Magsafe-like breakaway (its been done already).

The lack of ports and the ANAL levels of emphasis on thinness just grates on me. Put in a keyboard with proper travel. You want USB-C, add USB-C and keep the old ports. There was an illustration someone posted - put all those ports back in addition to USB-C.

At this point someone in Apple needs to keep Johnny away from the Macs, cause they're being turned into kids toys and he's just too anal and all form over function.

Lack of ports? These ports do EVERYTHING and can be CHAINED. We don't need dedicated video out ports anymore.
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People forget that Pros plug in external keyboards and mice to the mac. So having a touchbar is so useless. Having a touch screen is beneficial because I can hold the laptop with one hand while using my other hand and finger to interact with the machine. Or, use a pencil to draw on it. No one is going to use that touchbar after a month.

Um, when I am out and about I don't take a bulky keyboard and put that in my laptop bag. These are LAPTOPS. Yes sometimes I dock them and connect them to my desk setup, but these are mobile first systems.

And touch screens are the most useless thing ever introduced in windows laptops. I know nobody that uses them and we have a bunch of Surface Pro 3 systems. They are all docked, out of the way, and connected to big monitors which is far more beneficial that reaching up and tapping a button or two.

 

[BarracksSi]

You aren't a pro if you are using outdated stuff. Pros use current standards and methods of getting work done.

Pros might get stuck with outdated stuff because their shop refuses to replace anything that works just well enough.

I seriously do not understand the obsession with MagSafe. Are you tripping over your cables THAT much? I prefer charging on any port vs MagSafe.

I mentioned in an earlier post (maybe yesterday?) that I had tripped on the cord to my wife's MB Air, and also how fellow students had tripped a few times on cords in my coding class.

MagSafe was cool because it removed any consequences of accidentally pulling on a charging cable. Other peripheral cables usually stayed on the desk or table, but the charger would often get left trailing across the floor or something. I was lucky with my earlier, non-MagSafe Mac laptops in that I never yanked them to the floor -- but I tripped on their cords, too, and they got close to falling a few times. As soon as my first MagSafe connector popped free, I wished I could have it on every laptop into the future.

 

[therealseebs]

I seriously do not understand the obsession with MagSafe. Are you tripping over your cables THAT much? I prefer charging on any port vs MagSafe.

First off, it doesn't have to be "that much". Any tripping on a cable, even once, even if it's a pet doing it (animals are not always smart), can break the board the charge cable plugs into. On Apple's super-thin-super-compact designs, that could well be the main logic board. Whoops.

Secondly... I have probably seen at least a dozen laptops killed by people tripping on cables in my life. At least. Not one of them was magsafe. I have repaired so many laptop charging cables, and charging ports, and so on, for friends who are less able to use a soldering iron than I am. And none of them were magsafe, because that doesn't happen to magsafe cables or ports.

I would much prefer to have the option of a magsafe cable. I'm fine with the machine also being able to charge over the USB ports, but... I like the magsafe cable, and I am worried about its absence.

 

[bxsonic]

I think MagSafe is the biggest loss for me personally. That is such a useful feature. For the loss of ports, I'll just buy a few 3rd party dongles and move on. I don't get the "greed" argument for the dongles. It's USB-C, why would you buy Apple's overpriced dongles?

IMHO, a lot of anger over the price would have been alleviated had Apple increased the storage or RAM for the base config. A price drop next year would probably make a lot of people happy. Too bad for us early adopters

 

[unagimiyagi]

The one thing you can see Apple caring about the most is profit. This is OK, because that's what companies do. The issue is the hypocrisy, magnified by their constant press coverage and contrasted by their previous history as an innovative company. The hypocrisy lies in them continually saying they are different, they primarily want to improve the world through its products, their first priority is customer satisfaction, etc. It's none of these things because I can't think of any customer segment that is happy. Nerds aren't. Average consumers aren't because they have to pay an extra $500.

You can make a case for anything if you try hard enough, but looking at their actions, it is plainly evident to see that profit is goals #1,2 and 3. There's no need to overthink this.
They have essentially moved on to the fashion industry with its emphasis on looks, thinness, high prices, exclusivity, low availability, niche appeal.

If Apple is not moving towards becoming a fashion-oriented tech company, which reflects Ives personal interest in high-end everything, then it's even worse because Apple has no coherent strategy going forward. No amount of coherency from this point forward can erase the fact that these past five years have been random stabs at a strategy. I disagree with the amount of thought that went into the macbook pro's new design. You can slickly produce a video and tell us how hard it is without going into specifics, but at some point the teardowns don't lie. The innards of many top flight company's laptops are more similar than they are different.

Despite all of this, Apple will still continue to make lots of money because the well won't run dry for awhile.

I bet on history: no one is on top in the tech world for more than 25 years. Apple will not be the exception.

 

[ihatetoregister]

I seriously do not understand the obsession with MagSafe. Are you tripping over your cables THAT much? I prefer charging on any port vs MagSafe.

First : It takes exactly one time to trip over a charging cable and break a laptop. With warranty not covering such cases, and insanely high price, this hurts.
Second: While I'm careful with my stuff ( still, I've tripped on a few cables in my life , I can't say that much of my kid, my wife, my dog.
Third : That was one true immovation. Really, really practical. Why removing it ? I mean, you could even keep the USB-c charging and keep it anyway.

Lack of ports? These ports do EVERYTHING and can be CHAINED. We don't need dedicated video out ports anymore.

One more reason while having 2 USB-C instead of 4 would have been enough. Put normal connectors in the two others so we have some time to switch...

The one thing you can see Apple caring about the most is profit. This is OK, because that's what companies do. The issue is the hypocrisy, magnified by their constant press coverage and contrasted by their previous history as an innovative company. The hypocrisy lies in them continually saying they are different, they primarily want to improve the world through its products, their first priority is customer satisfaction, etc. It's none of these things because I can't think of any customer segment that is happy. Nerds aren't. Average consumers aren't because they have to pay an extra $500.

You can make a case for anything if you try hard enough, but looking at their actions, it is plainly evident to see that profit is goals #1,2 and 3. There's no need to overthink this.
They have essentially moved on to the fashion industry with its emphasis on looks, thinness, high prices, exclusivity, low availability, niche appeal.

If Apple is not moving towards becoming a fashion-oriented tech company, which reflects Ives personal interest in high-end everything, then it's even worse because Apple has no coherent strategy going forward. No amount of coherency from this point forward can erase the fact that these past five years have been random stabs at a strategy. I disagree with the amount of thought that went into the macbook pro's new design. You can slickly produce a video and tell us how hard it is without going into specifics, but at some point the teardowns don't lie. The innards of many top flight company's laptops are more similar than they are different.

Despite all of this, Apple will still continue to make lots of money because the well won't run dry for awhile.

I bet on history: no one is on top in the tech world for more than 25 years. Apple will not be the exception.

I agree with everything you say, but not sure about your last sentence. As long as there is no serious contender to macOS, this will be hard to switch for professional.
The feel of Windows is awful, Linux are still not ( and never will be ) "there", ChromeOS seems disappointing from what I've understood - but I haven't tried in all honesty.

 

[Rkuda]

One more reason while having 2 USB-C instead of 4 would have been enough. Put normal connectors in the two others so we have some time to switch...

As a semi-hypothetical. If I as a professional user need the full bandwidth from all 4 TB3 ports. Let's say to run a couple 5K Displays, eGPU, fancy external storage setup etc. How come my $3000-4000 purchase gets gimped? Just so someone else can feel more comfortable?So they can save $15 on a new cable/adaptor/hub?

With a HUB a single TB3 port can replace virtually every one of those legacy ports on the older systems.

 

[ihatetoregister]

As a semi-hypothetical. If I as a professional user need the full bandwidth from all 4 TB3 ports. Let's say to run a couple 5K Displays, eGPU, fancy external storage setup etc. How come my $3000-4000 purchase gets gimped? Just so someone else can feel more comfortable?So they can save $15 on a new cable/adaptor/hub?

With a HUB a single TB3 port can replace virtually every one of those legacy ports on the older systems.

So we agree ? If you had one or two TB3 that would have been enough, and we could still have the other ports and use our existing peripherals, until they're replaced by TB3 versions.
You literally cannot connect your Mac to a 4k TV and get the 60Hz. You can't.

 

[Ethosik]

First : It takes exactly one time to trip over a charging cable and break a laptop. With warranty not covering such cases, and insanely high price, this hurts.
Second: While I'm careful with my stuff ( still, I've tripped on a few cables in my life , I can't say that much of my kid, my wife, my dog.
Third : That was one true immovation. Really, really practical. Why removing it ? I mean, you could even keep the USB-c charging and keep it anyway.



One more reason while having 2 USB-C instead of 4 would have been enough. Put normal connectors in the two others so we have some time to switch...



I agree with everything you say, but not sure about your last sentence. As long as there is no serious contender to macOS, this will be hard to switch for professional.
The feel of Windows is awful, Linux are still not ( and never will be ) "there", ChromeOS seems disappointing from what I've understood - but I haven't tried in all honesty.

I have tripped over my monitor power cable and it fell from my desk. Does that need MagSafe too? Does everything need MagSafe? Just be careful. I never needed the MagSafe connection. Isn't there some adapter out there for USB-C MagSafe?
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So we agree ? If you had one or two TB3 that would have been enough, and we could still have the other ports and use our existing peripherals, until they're replaced by TB3 versions.
You literally cannot connect your Mac to a 4k TV and get the 60Hz. You can't.

Um, in his scenario, he would need FOUR TB3 ports, not just two. Why should we sacrifice the massive IO performance for the sake of legacy ports?

 

[ihatetoregister]

I have tripped over my monitor power cable and it fell from my desk. Does that need MagSafe too? Does everything need MagSafe? Just be careful. I never needed the MagSafe connection. Isn't there some adapter out there for USB-C MagSafe?

Absolutely, everything needs magsafe ! This being said, you don't bring your monitor on the coffee table in the living room, or at a conference, or in an hotel. Those are things that stay in one place, cable management is never a problem, thus can't be compared.
As for the adapter : This mbp is going to look ugly as hell, and I had to have over 400$ of adapters (because work + home) . Absolutely idiotic and greedy.

Um, in his scenario, he would need FOUR TB3 ports, not just two. Why should we sacrifice the massive IO performance for the sake of legacy ports?

Ok I didn't understand what you wrote at first. Can't you daisy chain stuff anyway ? Isn't that the whole point of TB ?
While would you need all 4TB ports ?

As to why : so we don't have to buy those stupid and exepensive adapters !

 

[redkamel]

Why is there so much anger and bitterness now ? Here and about elsewhere, from the news to my FB feed & more.
How is it any different from before ?

Nothing makes it different. This forum is full of complainers. A MacBook upgrade with an uninspiring GPU? Thats business as usual. No 32gb RAM? Thats actually intels fault. New form factor (thin, keyboard): ok, lets see, probably will be fine given that the MBP is their jewel of non iOS devices. Port change? Again, business as usual, and its going to cost less than 1% of the cost of the laptop to get any adapter/dock you need. Lack of Magsafe? That I understand but honestly...I charge my laptop when I am not using it.

 

[UltimateSyn]

I seriously do not understand the obsession with MagSafe. Are you tripping over your cables THAT much?

All it takes is one snag on the cable to bring your light machine off whatever surface it was on down to the ground.

 

[BarracksSi]

Despite what I said about how much I'll miss MagSafe (not that anyone can keep track of anybody's opinions here!), I'm all for the switch to USBC/TB.

I'm looking at my 2012 13" and I see a bunch of single-purpose ports and connectors I hardly use. Half the reason I got it was for its optical drive, expecting to rip my DVDs into iTunes; but in four years, I can't even remember IF I ripped a single DVD. Maybe I used the Ethernet jack a couple years ago at a hotel. For the FW800 port, I have an external drive, and… well, just that drive. For using the SD slot, I have exactly one SD card, but its camera can connect via USB anyway.

What do I "need" all these disparate ports for? Nothing, really, because I bought these peripherals only because I had the ports available. I could have done everything via USB (or AirPort). I can accomplish the same tasks without all those unique ports. I didn't buy a laptop with FW800 because I had a FW800 drive -- I bought the drive because I had an idle FW800 port on my new laptop.

It's a bit like a chicken-and-egg problem, but my old MBP was more like a chicken coop: I got a place to keep chickens, so I guess I should buy chickens.

Strange metaphor, I guess -- but does it make sense?

 

[Ethosik]

Does the headphone jack still offer optical line out like the current models? That might be one reason why that is staying for the moment.
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All it takes is one snag on the cable to bring your light machine off whatever surface it was on down to the ground.

Isn't it more worth it to have charging possible on any port, on either side? If you need MagSafe, you can get the adapter and it will still let you charge on any port on any side.

 

[BarracksSi]

Isn't it more worth it to have charging possible on any port, on either side? If you need MagSafe, you can get the adapter and it will still let you charge on any port on any side.

Almost -- but, at the moment, Griffin's adapter (the only one I know we can buy) isn't officially rated for the wattage of the new MBPs.

I'm sure a revision is on the way *soon().

 

[therealseebs]

Isn't it more worth it to have charging possible on any port, on either side?

Not to me, or to anyone else I've ever talked to. I have never in my life thought "gosh, I wish I could connect this charging cable to a different port instead of the one it's currently in", because all I care about is that I can connect it to a port at all.

On the other hand, I have often wished that other devices had magsafe ports.

If you need MagSafe, you can get the adapter and it will still let you charge on any port on any side.

If I can't have a thing where the actual physical connection to the laptop is the magnetic part that comes unstuck without damaging anything, I don't have magsafe. The point is to avoid having a thing that is inserted in the case and could damage something if yanked out.

 

[UltimateSyn]

If you need MagSafe, you can get the adapter and it will still let you charge on any port on any side.

By adapter do you mean the Griffin BreakSafe? If so, that one currently only supports 60W charging and the new 15" uses 87W.

I have to admit, I do like the ability to charge on either side but overall I would sacrifice that for a magnetic connection. Just gives me peace of mind about the state of my $3000 machine. Eventually someone will make an adapter that supports 87W and I'll buy that though.

I wish they made an official adapter.

 

[BarracksSi]

On the other hand, I have often wished that other devices had magsafe ports.

Let's also remember what happens when a cable gets disconnected by accident.

If a power cable pops off, it's no big deal. A mouse or keyboard, too, only creates an inconvenience if the plug pops loose.

If an external drive disconnects in the middle of writing a file, then you've got a corrupted file, or possibly a corrupted disk (at worst). If an Ethernet jack pops loose, you've interrupted any operation the computer was trying to do (I've read that an ISP might downgrade your connection if they detect frequent disconnects at your end, expecting that you have a substandard modem or something).

Creating a power socket with a magnetic connection gave a high benefit-to-consequence ratio. No flying laptop, no power loss. Other devices and peripherals can suffer more problems and should not be as easy to disconnect.

 

[therealseebs]

Let's also remember what happens when a cable gets disconnected by accident.

If a power cable pops off, it's no big deal. A mouse or keyboard, too, only creates an inconvenience if the plug pops loose.

If an external drive disconnects in the middle of writing a file, then you've got a corrupted file, or possibly a corrupted disk (at worst). If an Ethernet jack pops loose, you've interrupted any operation the computer was trying to do (I've read that an ISP might downgrade your connection if they detect frequent disconnects at your end, expecting that you have a substandard modem or something).

Creating a power socket with a magnetic connection gave a high benefit-to-consequence ratio. No flying laptop, no power loss. Other devices and peripherals can suffer more problems and should not be as easy to disconnect.

I would absolutely love a magsafe-style Ethernet port. My mac isn't connected to my ISP's hardware, it's connected to a local router, and it wouldn't be a problem, but ethernet cables are a pain. And sure, network interruption isn't ideal, but... That happens all the time anyway with wireless, and things do okay. And network interruption is way better than "machine yanked off desk".

 

[sgript]

People are upset about MagSafe, yet not realising that Apple has gotten rid of one of the most proprietary (and sh*t, yes, sh*t) cables known to man.

The replacements for MagSafe are ridiculous, now you can simply buy inexpensive decent/braided USB-C cables than having to go buy the entire brick/wire for MagSafe.

If MagSafe is such a big deal, there is an adapter out there that connects to USB-C and I'm sure there will be more. There's also issues with MagSafe working correctly as laptops get lighter.

 

[therealseebs]

People are upset about MagSafe, yet not realising that Apple has gotten rid of one of the most proprietary (and sh*t, yes, sh*t) cables known to man.

No, I'm fully aware of that. But what magsafe did was worth a lot to me, and there is no replacement for it. I will accept a proprietary cable that saves me thousands of dollars over a generic one that costs me thousands.

The replacements for MagSafe are ridiculous, now you can simply buy inexpensive decent/braided USB-C cables than having to go buy the entire brick/wire for MagSafe.

That's a completely separate question. Nothing prevented Apple from making a power brick with a separate cable with a magsafe end. They could have done that at any time and it would have worked fine.

If MagSafe is such a big deal, there is an adapter out there that connects to USB-C and I'm sure there will be more. There's also issues with MagSafe working correctly as laptops get lighter.

What are these "issues"?

And, again, unless the adapter means that the thing connected to the laptop is not inserted in it or in any way able to damage the laptop if yanked, it is not a replacement for magsafe.

 

[sgript]

No, I'm fully aware of that. But what magsafe did was worth a lot to me, and there is no replacement for it. I will accept a proprietary cable that saves me thousands of dollars over a generic one that costs me thousands.

To each their own, but the MagSafe like all iPhone wires frayed very easily. If you're half as careful around your Mac, the former is a bigger problem than not managing your cables. No one wants to pay a ridiculous price for a wire that is designed poorly. Many of which fray just over time.

That's a completely separate question. Nothing prevented Apple from making a power brick with a separate cable with a magsafe end. They could have done that at any time and it would have worked fine.

Nothing prevents them from doing anything, but that's what we had for years, with many issues of it detaching when on your lap (you know, with your lap-top) with the sightest movement. This wire is almost 10 times cheaper to buy than a MagSafe charger.

What are these "issues"?

And, again, unless the adapter means that the thing connected to the laptop is not inserted in it or in any way able to damage the laptop if yanked, it is not a replacement for magsafe.

The fact that as laptops that get lighter and lighter, eventually even a Magsafe won't protect it from getting a good tug before it detaches. It releasing is all down to the weight of machines.

The adapter comes with a MagSafe connected to the back of a solid USB-C to MagSafe cable, releasing it just as before.

 

[BarracksSi]

I would absolutely love a magsafe-style Ethernet port. My mac isn't connected to my ISP's hardware, it's connected to a local router, and it wouldn't be a problem, but ethernet cables are a pain. And sure, network interruption isn't ideal, but... That happens all the time anyway with wireless, and things do okay. And network interruption is way better than "machine yanked off desk".

The Ethernet port wasn't created for laptops, though -- it's been the standard connector for wired network devices. It was on laptops just because it could fit, not because it was great.

It's like screwed-down video connectors and SCSI. No, they weren't invented for portable devices, but we had them on laptops only because they were small enough to fit…

…and because we weren't ready to be weaned off of cables entirely. Because people still plugged their portables into power cords all the time, it was easy to think, hey, might as well keep plugging in everything else, too.

When I got my RevA iBook back in '99, I had to wait to get my first AirPort base station. In the meantime, but for only a couple months, I could only use the Internet near my phone line. It bugged me because the advent of simple-to-configure wireless networking was the entire reason I bought a laptop.

(well, now there's a tangent... lol)

I guess my point is, for almost two decades, we've seen the removal of desktop- and rack-friendly connectors from our portable computers. We're almost done. Moving to a single type of socket might be the last step.

 

[therealseebs]

The Ethernet port wasn't created for laptops, though -- it's been the standard connector for wired network devices. It was on laptops just because it could fit, not because it was great.

It's like screwed-down video connectors and SCSI. No, they weren't invented for portable devices, but we had them on laptops only because they were small enough to fit…

…and because we weren't ready to be weaned off of cables entirely. Because people still plugged their portables into power cords all the time, it was easy to think, hey, might as well keep plugging in everything else, too.

When I got my RevA iBook back in '99, I had to wait to get my first AirPort base station. In the meantime, but for only a couple months, I could only use the Internet near my phone line. It bugged me because the advent of simple-to-configure wireless networking was the entire reason I bought a laptop.

(well, now there's a tangent... lol)

I guess my point is, for almost two decades, we've seen the removal of desktop- and rack-friendly connectors from our portable computers. We're almost done. Moving to a single type of socket might be the last step.

I'm not totally convinced of this. We've certainly moved towards streamlining somewhat -- a whole bunch of ports got replaced by USB ports. But there's a distinction to make between "which ports are likely to be useful has changed" and "let's just drop everything".

I still really like functional docks: Put machine in, suddenly you have all the stuff plugged in. I like that. I like that a lot more than I like wireless, which has generally been a big pain for me.

Honestly, at the prices they're charging, Apple could just include the dock themselves. Give me a dock which can do Ethernet, USB 3.1, firewire, displayport, HDMI, and so on, and can deliver enough power to power the machine, put it in the box, and hey, close enough, right?
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To each their own, but the MagSafe like all iPhone wires frayed very easily. If you're half as careful around your Mac, the former is a bigger problem than not managing your cables. No one wants to pay a ridiculous price for a wire that is designed poorly. Many of which fray just over time.

The wire is a completely separate question, though.

Nothing prevents them from doing anything, but that's what we had for years, with many issues of it detaching when on your lap (you know, with your lap-top) with the sightest movement. This wire is almost 10 times cheaper to buy than a MagSafe charger.

Yes, but that's not a problem with magsafe, that's a problem with how Apple chose to build power adapters, a thing they've never been good at.

The fact that as laptops that get lighter and lighter, eventually even a Magsafe won't protect it from getting a good tug before it detaches. It releasing is all down to the weight of machines.

That might be an issue someday, but given how little pull you need to detach a magsafe, I'm not super concerned; my ipad mini wouldn't be yanked off a table by a magsafe connector.

The adapter comes with a MagSafe connected to the back of a solid USB-C to MagSafe cable, releasing it just as before.

There's still something sticking out of the side of the machine, though. I liked the part where the port was actually recessed a bit, so something going straight along the side would knock the cable out, and not damage anything.

 

[Abaganov]

Because of this