People forget that Pros plug in external keyboards and mice to the mac. So having a touchbar is so useless. Having a touch screen is beneficial because I can hold the laptop with one hand while using my other hand and finger to interact with the machine. Or, use a pencil to draw on it. No one is going to use that touchbar after a month.
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So much anger and bitterness here and everywhere. Why ?
- Thread starter ihatetoregister
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Agreed. Thats why I actually thought that pencil support was a given after seeing the size of the new trackpad. I waited for them to address it and it never came. I would have used that far more than the touch pad for photography work. Would be nice to basically have a small wacom tablet built in.
Its not the pricing that bothers me - its the lack of Pro-ness. The "improvements" are not Pro-centric, they're totally anal and beyond stupid. Like trying to hit that 4lb and 3lb exact mark, the crazy needless emphasis on thinness, etc. Just build a proper PRO laptop and people won't be complaining like.
And that's just it - if you want to abandon the Mac, you're stuck moving to Windows. But there's no real pro Macs left - its all prosumer junk instead. The Mac Pro has been mostly abandoned again, the MBP has been prosumerized.
And the cost cutting in the name of greater profits well that's just downright sad to see. Like not including an extension cord for the power brick. So people complain about the Magsafe - heck Apple should have included a USB-C power cable with a Magsafe-like breakaway (its been done already).
The lack of ports and the ANAL levels of emphasis on thinness just grates on me. Put in a keyboard with proper travel. You want USB-C, add USB-C and keep the old ports. There was an illustration someone posted - put all those ports back in addition to USB-C.
At this point someone in Apple needs to keep Johnny away from the Macs, cause they're being turned into kids toys and he's just too anal and all form over function.
I really doubt I will be getting another Apple to replace my 2014 MBP (which I got to replace my 2010 MPB, due to retina). I just don't think these things offer a good experience, and I bought Apple devices because they offer a good experience. I don't like how everything goes through USB-C. I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars for a dock to replace ports they took out. I don't like the decreased key travel on the keyboard. I don't like the lack of MagSafe.
I started buying MBPs because Windows computers were in a bad place and the MBPs were polished, wonderful devices with top notch parts and the best OS. They were just a pleasure to use, and mine still is. Nowadays, Windows computer designs caught up in a major way. If I were to go Apple I'd get less ports, a slower Cpu, a worse GPU, an annoying keyboard with poor travel, a tiny strip instead of full touch screen, and a midrange resolution (4K screens are out there). The only advantage is the OS, but I'm not sure it outweighs all that.
I read somewhere that Apple seems to have decided their "core" market is people surfing Facebook at Starbucks, and that sounds about right.
I started buying MBPs because Windows computers were in a bad place and the MBPs were polished, wonderful devices with top notch parts and the best OS. They were just a pleasure to use, and mine still is. Nowadays, Windows computer designs caught up in a major way. If I were to go Apple I'd get less ports, a slower Cpu, a worse GPU, an annoying keyboard with poor travel, a tiny strip instead of full touch screen, and a midrange resolution (4K screens are out there). The only advantage is the OS, but I'm not sure it outweighs all that.
I read somewhere that Apple seems to have decided their "core" market is people surfing Facebook at Starbucks, and that sounds about right.
I still love Apple, and don't see myself every buying anything other than Apple for my personal phone/tablet/computer needs.
But...the Apple I buy today isn't the Apple I bought in 2000. In 2000, Apple was the underdog. They were a niche company and acted like it. They innovated in design and capitalized on existing markets by benchmarking available products/services and then absolutely crushing competitors by the vertical integration of elegantly designed hardware and "it just works" software.
The landscape in which Apple finds itself competing is different now. Its competitors don't see design as an afterthought any longer. Companies like Google are now leveraging platform-agnostic services that are good enough to rival the services that Apple offers. Put enough Google stuff on your iPhone, and you could make the jump to Android more easily.
There's also the slow down in the rate of technological advancement of chips and batteries. It's harder to innovate when technological improvements get closer to plateauing. How do you compete with competitors' (and your own) devices that basically already do everything instantaneously?
Maybe there is a great "one more thing" on the horizon. But in an age where my watch can make phone calls, text, pull up news headlines, track my heart rate and movement, pay for my coffee, and control my car...it's going to take a helluva lot of convincing people that it is the next big thing.
But...the Apple I buy today isn't the Apple I bought in 2000. In 2000, Apple was the underdog. They were a niche company and acted like it. They innovated in design and capitalized on existing markets by benchmarking available products/services and then absolutely crushing competitors by the vertical integration of elegantly designed hardware and "it just works" software.
The landscape in which Apple finds itself competing is different now. Its competitors don't see design as an afterthought any longer. Companies like Google are now leveraging platform-agnostic services that are good enough to rival the services that Apple offers. Put enough Google stuff on your iPhone, and you could make the jump to Android more easily.
There's also the slow down in the rate of technological advancement of chips and batteries. It's harder to innovate when technological improvements get closer to plateauing. How do you compete with competitors' (and your own) devices that basically already do everything instantaneously?
Maybe there is a great "one more thing" on the horizon. But in an age where my watch can make phone calls, text, pull up news headlines, track my heart rate and movement, pay for my coffee, and control my car...it's going to take a helluva lot of convincing people that it is the next big thing.
The iPhone and retina Macbook Pro (which they inherited) were legitimately life improving for me. I enjoy using my 2012 rMBP and it's made my job better when working from home. No other laptop comes close, period.
To see it squandered in such a way for arbitrary reasons (at best) by a company turned toxic and antagonistic towards its fans is a shame.
To see it squandered in such a way for arbitrary reasons (at best) by a company turned toxic and antagonistic towards its fans is a shame.
Thanks for all the answers. It seems for some it's the price hike and the greed ( Extension cables, adapters ), for other the low specs / mishaps (low bandwidth on TB3 etc), and for others the lack of pro-ness.
Not a great combination.
Work is paying for this machine but I feel so embarrassed presenting the bill (I just started), while knowing it's not great or even practical - I usually use an external keyboard and mouse, so the Touch Bar won't be too useful.
The ~2000 in adapters only feels also embarrassing.
Not a great combination.
Work is paying for this machine but I feel so embarrassed presenting the bill (I just started), while knowing it's not great or even practical - I usually use an external keyboard and mouse, so the Touch Bar won't be too useful.
The ~2000 in adapters only feels also embarrassing.
I dont get why people are angry. Apple is doing what its always being doing.
I expected exactly what happened here, and so should all old Apple users.
This is nothing new with Tim, people need to refresh their memory.
Only USB-C: Apple is jumping on new tech and ditching tech that on its way out, for most users, too soon.
Have been doing this forever.
Thin and light: Surprise! Apple, as always really care about this, often more so than other things.
Price: Apple is usually raising price with redesigns, nothing new here.
To be an Apple Pro user you need to expect to pay up, be ready to jump on the
newest tech, and be ready for a surprise or two.
Take Lenovo, the opposite:
Just dropped VGA now because Intel forced everyone to by not supporting it.
No USB-C in the new T/X ThinkPad line.
Ugly old design
Im so glad Apple is trying to push the industry as fast as it can over on new better tech.
If you think of a computer just as a work tool that need to get the job done, and care about most GHz and GB for your buck, Apple is not for you.
I expected exactly what happened here, and so should all old Apple users.
This is nothing new with Tim, people need to refresh their memory.
Only USB-C: Apple is jumping on new tech and ditching tech that on its way out, for most users, too soon.
Have been doing this forever.
Thin and light: Surprise! Apple, as always really care about this, often more so than other things.
Price: Apple is usually raising price with redesigns, nothing new here.
To be an Apple Pro user you need to expect to pay up, be ready to jump on the
newest tech, and be ready for a surprise or two.
Take Lenovo, the opposite:
Just dropped VGA now because Intel forced everyone to by not supporting it.
No USB-C in the new T/X ThinkPad line.
Ugly old design
Im so glad Apple is trying to push the industry as fast as it can over on new better tech.
If you think of a computer just as a work tool that need to get the job done, and care about most GHz and GB for your buck, Apple is not for you.
Honestly, its history repeating over again.
No one remembers when Apple first removed CD ROM from rMBP 2012? Now look at the market and see whether we use as much CDs as before?
We will adjust to it. (talking about ports). However I hate the fact that the specs are low. THAT'S LOW
No one remembers when Apple first removed CD ROM from rMBP 2012? Now look at the market and see whether we use as much CDs as before?
We will adjust to it. (talking about ports). However I hate the fact that the specs are low. THAT'S LOW
I've said that all along, in fact if you're going to use Photoshop for your job 8 hours a day, I suspect you'll be hooking up the laptop to a monitor, keyboard, mouse and watcom tablet. Of course if you're using PS all day, I suspect the MacBook Pro wouldn't be your first choice to use anyways..
I personally think the missing MagSafe is a the most overlooked loss. Mag safe should have been the standard for all connectors.
Maybe it impossible but a data transfer over MagSafe would have all the singles worth it.
I said to my friends and wife when they switch from 30pin to Lightening, "why not a new MagSafe style connector" that solves the upside down connector issue and also would solve the connector getting stuck in the phone issue.
But alas Apple seems to have lost their way. I only hope a new MacMini come soon.
Anger and bitterness? I think it's more disappointment coupled with the lack or Pro-ness and design over function mantra.
I'm sure the new machines are built nicely, the RD for "inventing" the touchbar has cost a lot of money and that the HDR ready display wasn't cheap to produce either but the fact of the matter is, Apple compromised on a lot of things and rasied the price by $ 300 (even 400 € in Europe!).
Sure you can just buy a hub, dongles and whatever but why are people forced to do that on a pro machine? I'm sure professional photo editors are thrilled to carry their hub on the go just to get their photos on the new machine. I mean Apple has one of the best engineers in the world did nobody think of that? I just don't get it and if the USB C ports are so great and are the future fine, why not have 2 of them and 2 USB Type B ones so people could still use all the gadgets without the need for dongles? And worse people that have the latest IP 7 can't plug it in without extra cables? Seriously?
The future may be wireless (I doubt some people prefer to spend less time being connected and like to work "offline"), USB type C and what not...but the fact is this future is years away. Apple wants to ahead of time that's fine, but there should be some benefit to that and right now they are too far ahead of time. Also something missing in this whole discussion is the fact that thinner also means harder to repair and more soldered on stuff (= bad for customers).
It seems getting a highend notebook without gimmicks (touchbar, touchscreen) is becoming more and more an impossible task *lol*.
btw. look at the ebay prices for the old MBP some are going through the roof wow.
Apple's lineup could be so simple:
Budget: MBA
Design > function: retina Macbook
Portable Powerhouse: MBP 15'inch
Portable Students dream: MBP 13'inch
Stationary beast: Mac Pro
fragmentation is hardly a great thing. Heck I've already spend some time telling people about the difference between the 2 13'inch MBPs. Apple really should have called it the MBA Plus or the rMB Plus.
I'm sure the new machines are built nicely, the RD for "inventing" the touchbar has cost a lot of money and that the HDR ready display wasn't cheap to produce either but the fact of the matter is, Apple compromised on a lot of things and rasied the price by $ 300 (even 400 € in Europe!).
Sure you can just buy a hub, dongles and whatever but why are people forced to do that on a pro machine? I'm sure professional photo editors are thrilled to carry their hub on the go just to get their photos on the new machine. I mean Apple has one of the best engineers in the world did nobody think of that? I just don't get it and if the USB C ports are so great and are the future fine, why not have 2 of them and 2 USB Type B ones so people could still use all the gadgets without the need for dongles? And worse people that have the latest IP 7 can't plug it in without extra cables? Seriously?
The future may be wireless (I doubt some people prefer to spend less time being connected and like to work "offline"), USB type C and what not...but the fact is this future is years away. Apple wants to ahead of time that's fine, but there should be some benefit to that and right now they are too far ahead of time. Also something missing in this whole discussion is the fact that thinner also means harder to repair and more soldered on stuff (= bad for customers).
It seems getting a highend notebook without gimmicks (touchbar, touchscreen) is becoming more and more an impossible task *lol*.
btw. look at the ebay prices for the old MBP some are going through the roof wow.
Apple's lineup could be so simple:
Budget: MBA
Design > function: retina Macbook
Portable Powerhouse: MBP 15'inch
Portable Students dream: MBP 13'inch
Stationary beast: Mac Pro
fragmentation is hardly a great thing. Heck I've already spend some time telling people about the difference between the 2 13'inch MBPs. Apple really should have called it the MBA Plus or the rMB Plus.
Yeah that's what I said in my original post. It has always been this way.
But when you read what is post here and there, I think I get it. And now that I'm ordering, I really get it. As someone said, it's the perfect storm : People waited for a long time, and the update is really disappointing. And the price. And the accessories that make you look stupid.
Some of the choices feel unnecessary/ backward like removing the magsafe port.
Price is really nuts, even for Apple.
Greed on adapters, and not including the extension power cable ?!? wtf.
I had to max out the 13", and the final bill includes about 450$ of accessories : 2 TB3 hub, one for home and one for work, extra charger, ethernet adapter, usb adapter, a usb-c to lightning adapter (that one I could have passed but it's smaller that the hub + regular lightning when on the go ), 2 extension power cable.
Oh, and touch bar is useless if you use a stand and a separate keyboard / mouse. You know, like pros do
Bill is at 4180 dollars . This is just ridiculous. For a low-specs 13" computer. No screens, stand, separate keyboard and mouse. looking stupid with a lot of adapters, which for some can't even do the job properly (no hdmi2.0a, so no 4k@60Hz and HDR).
To be compared to 2000 dollars (actually, a bit more, since I'm in Europe, 2200$) the maxed out Razer Blade Stealth costs.
Which also has a better CPU, a better screen and the possibility for Razer Core, and can output on a real 4k TV with the right frequency & HDR.
Against it, the Mac has only the argument of being 250grams lighter, which no one cares, and running macOS which is the sole reason I'm still talking here.
I'm annoyed, but if I was directly paying for that... man I'd be angry !
Yeah, base RAM 8GB ? WTF. DDR3, old cpu, mid-range screen ... Why ?!?
I think it is mostly price. I don't care about the ports... I simply use my MBP to browse Facebook at Starbucks. What does disappoint me is the specs of the base models and the prices of upgrades. I have no problem with the base prices but it is beginning to feel that 256GB is the new 16GB model like with the iPhone last year.
I know we use the cloud more and that is one of their reasonings. However 256 just doesn't quite cut it. Many people have older MBP that are 512 and you really shouldn't need to spend more just to match what your older laptop had. It is also painful to downgrade your storage and have to move around files to make things work.
You can get an external drive but now you need an adapter or a new drive with usb c. This doesn't seem to be the wireless world Apple is promoting. If you have an iPhone that is 256 it seems you should have more space on a computer to actually be able to store more than just the contents of your phone.
Also I am on a MBP with 8 RAM right now and it works perfectly fine for me. However I wonder if that will be the case in the future?
So the way I see it is the base models should have been 512 storage and 16 memory standard on the touchpad models. As far as the dongles go that is fine with me and I accept it as change. People who have an iPhone 7 should get the lightning to usb c cable for free upon showing their phone. This is timed too close together to be excusable.
Cutting out the extension cable is also a bad thing as it makes Apple look greedy. If you live outside of the USA or travel frequently you know how useful these are. Not a big deal because I am guessing my old ones will work on the new bricks.
I can't justify the price of getting the specs I want on the 15" so I will compromise and bump up the 13" to 512 and 16. But Apple has always done this with their RAM and storage. You could never have your cake and eat it too. Just feel that 256 on the 15" model in particular is as bad as 16GB was in a phone. It shouldn't be in this line up.
I will eventually get one but like others who don't really need one will hold off. It will be interesting to see what percentage of sales are from people like me that would normally upgrade just because they enjoy doing so rather than out of necessity.
I wouldn't say I am angry more like a bit disappointed and frustrated.
What does disappoint me is the specs of the base models and the prices of upgrades. I have no problem with the base prices but it is beginning to feel that 256GB is the new 16GB model like with the iPhone last year.I know we use the cloud more and that is one of their reasonings. However 256 just doesn't quite cut it. Many people have older MBP that are 512 and you really shouldn't need to spend more just to match what your older laptop had. It is also painful to downgrade your storage and have to move around files to make things work.
You can get an external drive but now you need an adapter or a new drive with usb c. This doesn't seem to be the wireless world Apple is promoting. If you have an iPhone that is 256 it seems you should have more space on a computer to actually be able to store more than just the contents of your phone.
Also I am on a MBP with 8 RAM right now and it works perfectly fine for me. However I wonder if that will be the case in the future?
So the way I see it is the base models should have been 512 storage and 16 memory standard on the touchpad models. As far as the dongles go that is fine with me and I accept it as change. People who have an iPhone 7 should get the lightning to usb c cable for free upon showing their phone. This is timed too close together to be excusable.
Cutting out the extension cable is also a bad thing as it makes Apple look greedy. If you live outside of the USA or travel frequently you know how useful these are. Not a big deal because I am guessing my old ones will work on the new bricks.
I can't justify the price of getting the specs I want on the 15" so I will compromise and bump up the 13" to 512 and 16. But Apple has always done this with their RAM and storage. You could never have your cake and eat it too. Just feel that 256 on the 15" model in particular is as bad as 16GB was in a phone. It shouldn't be in this line up.
I will eventually get one but like others who don't really need one will hold off. It will be interesting to see what percentage of sales are from people like me that would normally upgrade just because they enjoy doing so rather than out of necessity.
I wouldn't say I am angry more like a bit disappointed and frustrated.
I'm on a MBP ( the latest before this iteration ) with 8GB, and it's horrible. I do a lot less than before, swap is being used all the time... It's really bad. I seriously regret my older but maxed out 2013 MBP.
I'm not too sure what you do with your pro, but I can tell you many developers don't have enough with 8GB.
I read Macrumors with mine and idly wonder if 8GB will cut it for my next laptop. In my spare time I browse porn. Though being serious the only reason I wonder if 8GB will cut it next time is because of future proofing for operating systems.
I only consume content I do not create anything and am not a pro.
I only consume content I do not create anything and am not a pro.
How many times a month were you using the CDROM in 2012? I used mine once a month max. How often were you using the floppy? At the time they removed it, it was basicly only used for drivers for windows. When they removed ethernet almost everyone was using wifi, ethernet was nice to have, but did you actually use it? I plug in USB-A devices daily.
I was actually at college at the time. I had to use CD software given from my courses for some homework and such. So I did use it quite frequently. Luckily I had spare external cd rom and iMac at the time.
Paying the premium of apple tax was a no brainer for most of the users here. Sure you're playing more but you were getting the best designed laptop with near perfect compatibility and customer support.
With this new MacBook Pro though. Yikes. The four USB-C is forward thinking it's inconvenient now but a few years from now it'll be great having them. But why couldn't apple fit in a MagSafe? A lot of laptops that can charge though USBC still rock a separate charging port.
Why even thinner? No one asked for this. Especially the power users. Use that extra space for more battery, higher thermal load for a better GPU, or what about a keyboard with some travel?
The new laptops are nothing but compromises with a premium price tag.
To make matters worse they release this thing when the market for premium laptops has been saturated with worthy alternatives.
With this new MacBook Pro though. Yikes. The four USB-C is forward thinking it's inconvenient now but a few years from now it'll be great having them. But why couldn't apple fit in a MagSafe? A lot of laptops that can charge though USBC still rock a separate charging port.
Why even thinner? No one asked for this. Especially the power users. Use that extra space for more battery, higher thermal load for a better GPU, or what about a keyboard with some travel?
The new laptops are nothing but compromises with a premium price tag.
To make matters worse they release this thing when the market for premium laptops has been saturated with worthy alternatives.
These same people complained when the retina MacBooks came out. This is just how MacRumors rolls. The machines most of these pro users from the 1990's and early 2000's were overpriced and completely inferior in terms of performance to everything else on the market. I don't want to hear it.
You aren't a pro if you are using outdated stuff. Pros use current standards and methods of getting work done.
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Exactly.
Correction: Not only did Apple create USB-C, they were first to market with the 12" MacBook in 2015. I know I was one of the first people to get mine in April 2015.