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So will Apple ever offer us the full web in a tablet device like the others do?
- Thread starter ApplesAOranges
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Do you know why HTML5 isn't an "agreed standard" yet?
Adobe gets royalties from Flash. HTML5 does not allow anyone to get royalties from the technology itself. Adobe has been trying to stall the standards committee on HTML5.
Also, your comment about usage is missing the point. Adobe has yet to demonstrate Flash running successfully on a mobile device. This has nothing to do with Steve not working with Adobe. Did you know that the first mobile Flash player was released in the summer of 2010? The iPhone came out in 2007. Do you know how many smartphones hit the market within that three-year window? Tons. Why couldn't Adobe have spotted a trend?
You say that Steve refuses to work with Adobe. Do you know that Apple is a huge customer for Adobe's products? Also, Adobe started to take Apple's exclusion of Flash seriously only when the iPad came without Flash. Before then, Adobe dismissed Apple altogether.
Adobe gets royalties from Flash. HTML5 does not allow anyone to get royalties from the technology itself. Adobe has been trying to stall the standards committee on HTML5.
Also, your comment about usage is missing the point. Adobe has yet to demonstrate Flash running successfully on a mobile device. This has nothing to do with Steve not working with Adobe. Did you know that the first mobile Flash player was released in the summer of 2010? The iPhone came out in 2007. Do you know how many smartphones hit the market within that three-year window? Tons. Why couldn't Adobe have spotted a trend?
You say that Steve refuses to work with Adobe. Do you know that Apple is a huge customer for Adobe's products? Also, Adobe started to take Apple's exclusion of Flash seriously only when the iPad came without Flash. Before then, Adobe dismissed Apple altogether.
Are you serious?
Let's talk about free online movies:
You say that Apple doesn't want Flash because it could compete with iTunes. Hmmm. Then what is Netflix doing on the iPad and the iPhone? Netflix was one of the first iPad apps and among the most popular?
Also, if Apple wants to skewer profits, that's called business. Apple's job is to make money and make tons of it, simple as that.
Let's talk about free online movies:
You say that Apple doesn't want Flash because it could compete with iTunes. Hmmm. Then what is Netflix doing on the iPad and the iPhone? Netflix was one of the first iPad apps and among the most popular?
Also, if Apple wants to skewer profits, that's called business. Apple's job is to make money and make tons of it, simple as that.
I'd say anyone who starts a thread with Adobe's marketing term "Full Web" is trolling. Full buggy battery-wasting web, maybe, on unreleased vaporware devices except for a few android phones. By the way I own an android phone that supposedly plays flash and it is very hit and miss. Before you assail Apple for not having the "Full Web," show us a device available for sale with half the battery life of an ipad, please.
Yup! Its about capitalizing on the market and securing future proceeds. Apple is a shroud company and will alway be looking for the next itunes, app store, and now mac store.
Why would they worry....?? You bought their products with eyes open..
Actually I didn´t, ´cause I just don´t find the iPad useful yet. But I´m waiting for iPad 2, if it just maybe would have F or other cool useful features.
I´m sure there isn´t, but for me F would be more useful than battery life. And if there would be an "F ON/OFF option", both parties would be happy, right?
This looks pretty good to me though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YiXlkiq8Y0
But then again, I like how Apple does other things and all my other machines are Macs, so I´d like to keep in the "Mac world". The MBA is probably tempting me the most at the moment.
Nonsense. Using the same logic HTML5 games threaten Apple's ability skim profits from everything served on an i-device too so Apple should not support HTML5. Along the same line, Apple wouldn't allow free apps on the App store because it costs them a lot to administer and provide bandwidth so less profit for them.
Apple's stance on this is pretty clear and logical: Flash couldn't provide adequate performance and battery life plus it's completely controlled by a single corporation outside Apple's command so they don't want to allow it on their device knowing that it'll foster the use of the said closed source, inefficient platform. Their OS, their rules.
The most hilarious side effect of all this is Apple haters, who usually LOVE to cite the "closeness" of iOS and praise the open source ideal of Android, have absolutely no problem backing up proprietary Flash rather than completely supporting the open and relatively democratic standard that is HTML5. Hypocrisy knows no bound.
Nonsense. Using the same logic HTML5 games threaten Apple's ability skim profits from everything served on an i-device too so Apple should not support HTML5. Along the same line, Apple wouldn't allow free apps on the App store because it costs them a lot to administer and provide bandwidth so less profit for them.
Apple's stance on this is pretty clear and logical: Flash couldn't provide adequate performance and battery life plus it's completely controlled by a single corporation outside Apple's command so they don't want to allow it on their device knowing that it'll foster use of the said closed source, inefficient platform.
The most hilarious side effect of all this is Apple haters, who usually LOVE to cite the "closeness" of iOS and praise the open source ideal of Android, have absolutely no problem backing up proprietary Flash rather than completely supporting the open and relatively democratic standard that is HTML5. What's worse, almost everyone had, at some point in their lives, their browsers slowed down and eventually crashed by Flash. Almost everyone cursed at the sluggish performance of Flash and wished people stop using it on websites, especially the techy types. Yet I see many of the same techies now support Flash because they hate Apple's "closeness." Hypocrisy knows no bound.
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Except HTML5 games are utter crap and probably will never reach the same depth as Flash games. So far, HTML5 videos are also utter crap. Only reason Apple did it is to provide some sort of reasoning for canceling out Flash. "Oh yeah, we think this new, relatively dead technology is better than Flash which is used in pretty much every dynamic site in existence." All games, all videos...off-limits to Apple users. But Apple loves you!
Depth? How can one put "depth" and "Flash games" in one sentence? If you depth, you don't really want Flash-made games. Also the level of even the so-called "casual games" has improved so much that I don't play Flash games anymore. Games like Cut the Rope, Angry Birds, etc are well beyond of the Flash games' polish.
"Oh yeah, we think this new, relatively dead technology is better than Flash which is used in pretty much every dynamic site in existence." All games, all videos...off-limits to Apple users. But Apple loves you!
HTML5 isn't just a "new technology," it's a new open web standard controlled by a committee. Eventually that's where the things are headed.
Apple doesn't love me. I don't love Apple. They make products that suit my purpose as they see fit so I love Apple products. If they stop making good products then I'll stop buying Apple products and buy someone else's. But a nice attempt to troll there.
Don't know how relevant it is to this argument, but I do recall someone saying it cane take like 1 page of HTML5 code to replicate 1 line of Flash code.
Flash was said to be so simple to create nice things with, which I guess is why it became so popular so quick.
Perhaps HTML5 is going to be so horrid and long winded that no-one will really want to use it, and Apple hope by the time everyone realises this it will be too late?
I'm talking technically. HTML5 technically couldn't achieve something that a simple Flash presentation like Farmville could. Also, running some HTML5 demos on the iPad, it's quite sad how slow and glitchy it all is. I'd believe Apple if HTML5 ran well on the iPad, but it doesn't.
Doesn't seem like it. More and more devices are getting Flash, and Flash is getting faster with every release. Right now, aside from the moral argument of closed vs. open (also, it's funny that Apple has any say when it comes to open vs. closed,) Flash is a much more capable, much more supported, much faster, and much more practical format. HTML5 could catch up in...5 years? Is it really a good idea to migrate everyone to a format so immature 5 years early? I disagree.
Troll? I really don't understand how you come up with the arguments that you spew. I have had an iPhone 3G, 3GS, 4, and an iPad, and I'm trolling? Trolling what, my own devices? You nuts? As somebody who enjoys content consumption past mere text (and I'm sure I'm not the only one,) I long for Flash. Frash showed everybody just how well Adobe has made Flash run on mobile devices. Apple said that Adobe didn't show them a fast appliance of Flash. Well, they're wrong. Frash came out a while back and it runs flawlessly. Hell, iOS runs it tons better than Android does in that windows don't lag when you scroll. But Apple is stuck to their childish roots and thus they're screwing millions of people out of rich web experience. I understand that Flash is a heaping file of crap on OSX, but that's not the case for iOS and Adobe's mobile flash. If only Adobe released Flash on Cydia. It would truly show the world how well they have it running on iOS. And you know what? I bet every single person who jailbreaks their devices would try and be properly impressed. Even those that make up the majority of the thread, those that want nothing to do with Flash.
I think it's only logical that Flash will get better.
Adobe will improve the code more and more.
Mobile GPU's will get more powerful, perhaps with hardware flash playback built into them.
Mobile CPU's will get more powerful over time.
Funnily enough, the longer time goes on the reason not to have flash will get less and less, and more and more obvious as a political than a technical argument.
Oh, I'm in 2020 with my 1 Thz iPad 9 and 256 core nvidea mobile chipset, and I still hate flash! lol
Adobe will improve the code more and more.
Mobile GPU's will get more powerful, perhaps with hardware flash playback built into them.
Mobile CPU's will get more powerful over time.
Funnily enough, the longer time goes on the reason not to have flash will get less and less, and more and more obvious as a political than a technical argument.
Oh, I'm in 2020 with my 1 Thz iPad 9 and 256 core nvidea mobile chipset, and I still hate flash! lol
That's a valid point. Flash/actionscript is pretty easy to develop for and mature, but that's part of reason why Apple doesn't want it on their devices, the complacency.
Look at the websites. Flash provided a ton of pre-made animations and a nice visual way of implementing dynamic page. However that led to an awful performance degradation and everybody hated using sites laced with Flash. Now unless you want "application on the web" type of page, most simple web animations are done through Ajax. But still, many people go with Flash rather than optimizing because it's so much easier to do.
If Flash is available, lazy developers will port applications without putting extra effort to optimize the user experience and performance, which will lower iOS experience to the point where it doesn't distinguish itself from other platforms. That's precisely what Apple is trying to avoid. They are forcing developers try harder and make better apps.
This is on the OSX side. I can't stress enough how simply perfect Flash has been on the Windows side. This is probably why there are people who swear by Flash and others who swear against it. I'm telling you that for 90% of the market, Flash runs excellently. Seems that it runs well on the iPad too, so I wish Apple would just reconsider. But it's too late, they've already made their choices. This is why Honeycomb/Playbook tablets now have a snowball's chance in hell of catching up to the iPad. They come out of the box with the full web. It's so sad too that Flash runs better on iPad than it does on those other two platforms, yet it's Apple that's unwilling to use it.
I'm writing this on a fairly new installation of Windows 7 on an HP. I use Chrome and when I have many many tabs open, it tend to die once in a while. It's always Flash.
mKTank, please. You're a person who attacked people who disagreed with "iPhone colors suck" by calling them "(Apple) fanboys" while ignoring objective data. And here you are saying "All games, all videos...off-limits to Apple users. But Apple loves you!" If you don't think you're trolling, you should know that you're trolling.
No. It's a known problem with Chrome and how it handles Flash. Otherwise, this never happens on Firefox. Even Internet Explorer runs it well.
Oh look, it's this argument again.
egg, please. You're a person who attacked people who agreed with "iPhone colors suck" by calling them "(anti-Apple) trolls" while ignoring common sense. And here you are saying "[Flash is slow and crashes frequently.]" If you don't think you're a fanboy, you should know that you're a fanboy.
See how easy it is? Disagreeing with something is not trolling. I'm sure you'd rather that everybody here just didn't argue and instead stroked Apple and each other, but that's simply not the case.
Not at all. There was no "people" only you. I didn't attack the OP at all in that thread. I attacked your trollish behavior of saying "if you don't admit the iPhone colors suck it's because of your fanboyism." If you don't think that's trolling, again, it's trolling.
The colors do suck, though. They're too weak. It's pretty damn obvious. I like how you think I'd troll something that I actually own and use. It's admitting the fault with the screen, it's just not colorful enough. I'm not saying the SAMOLED screen is good while the Retina is bad, I'm saying, for the million and first time that I like exaggerated colors more than weak colors, and so did the OP. That's what I meant when I uttered the term 'subjective' half a million times but you were too busy crying over my opinion to realize that it's a valid one, and it's just that - an opinion.
Yes, that's trolling. If things are as "subjective" as you've claimed then you cannot say the words like "suck" "too weak" "obvious."
According to your expert, he also said that the colors were too weak.
Hypocrisy at its finest.
And stated that lower gamut has better visuals than higher gamut. Oh and the wrong color balance too.
But this goes right to the beginning of your hypocrisy. Why did you call someone "fanboy" when they didn't agree that iPhone color "sucks"? Why?
In his opinion. Again, it's subjective. Can't say that word enough.
And I never said that. Let's keep the colors argument in the other thread, seems you got some face to save.
It's not argument about colors but your odd attack on people when they disagree with your "subjective" opinion. Yes, you stated "fanboyism" was making him not thinking the iPhone colors suck. Then a mod edited your post and got rid of that personal attack. If that's not trolling, I don't know what is.
God I'm sick and tired of the words "troll" or "trolling". Can't we have a discussion without throwing those words every second post?
I don't know which is worse, someone calling someone a troll or someone actually trolling... Wait, I do know. It's someone calling someone a troll. I don't actually mind some trolling/provocation, makes life interesting. I've never been offended by anyone's trolling. I just laugh it off.
But I guess the internet is full of sensitive people. I can't stand sensitive people. <--- Is this "trolling"?
Now please, could everyone get back on topic!
I don't know which is worse, someone calling someone a troll or someone actually trolling... Wait, I do know. It's someone calling someone a troll. I don't actually mind some trolling/provocation, makes life interesting. I've never been offended by anyone's trolling. I just laugh it off.
But I guess the internet is full of sensitive people. I can't stand sensitive people. <--- Is this "trolling"?
Now please, could everyone get back on topic!