So wrong in trying to snag a few iPads for quick resale?

[TheWheelMan]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. There is obviously a market for them and likely are people that value their time more than say a hundred or two hundred dollar mark up, which let's be honest isn't much.

Everyone knows the game and has a fair shot, sans NYC. Get there at an obscene hour in the morning and wait. To begrudge someone for doing what "you" can't or won't is just silly IMO.

Filling up the lines and buying up stock so that I have to get up at ungodly hours or pay a $200 markup (A 40%+ markup on a $500 iPad isn't high? Not everyone has pockets full of cash as you clearly do), is still an underhanded and crappy thing to do. You can twist it any way you want so that you can keep your conscious clear, but the bottom line is that people doing this are not only taking advantage of the problem, they are helping to create it. I think it's just the fact these aren't people simply taking advantage of a situation they have no control over, but people who are in fact contributing to the problem in the first place.

No matter how much you justify it, these aren't examples of capitalism, these are outright leeches.

 

[manman]

Filling up the lines and buying up stock so that I have to get up at ungodly hours or pay a $200 markup (A 40%+ markup on a $500 iPad isn't high? Not everyone has pockets full of cash as you clearly do), is still an underhanded and crappy thing to do. You can twist it any way you want so that you can keep your conscious clear, but the bottom line is that people doing this are not only taking advantage of the problem, they are helping to create it. I think it's just the fact these aren't people simply taking advantage of a situation they have no control over, but people who are in fact contributing to the problem in the first place.

No matter how much you justify it, these aren't examples of capitalism, these are outright leeches.

yup- you HAVE to. You have no choice in your life but to own an iPad, and therefore you are forced to wake up early and pay mark-ups.

Supply and demand is not a problem, it's the normal order of the market. You're right- not everyone is rich. I'd love to own a multi-million dollar house on the water but I can't, so boo hoo, I better find some people to blame.

You think the reseller market for iPads has bad mark-up, look at the market for rare trading cards. You CAN get a rare and high value card at retail price if you get lucky, but it's HARD..hence the higher value. Or look at older cards; You think the card stock and ink for a Michael Jordan Fleer rookie card is worth thousands of dollars? Of course not... it's value is only determined by how much people want one vs how many exist. You don't hear people complaining "I can't believe the people that sell those things, they're forcing me to pay thousands of dollars- the scum!!" Yet somehow when it's a brand new toy with high demand and low supply it's different.

Other people besides you want an iPad...some are willing to get up earlier, stand in line longer, and/or pay more for it. Why do you 'deserve' one more than they do? iPads are getting into the hands of people who place the highest value on them, and resellers are just the method by which it's happening...call it justification if it makes you feel better blaming someone else than just sucking it up and admitting the reality of the market, but there's nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

EDIT:

Seems more like someone going into the area where a disaster has taken place and selling people water for $25 a bottle, ie, screwing people in need over for a profit. Not as bas as the water scenario, but still not good.

Wow....wish I would have seen this comment sooner. Then I would have realized there's no point in arguing with you lol. If don't see the flaw in this comparison then you need some help dude.

 

[OMGitworks]

So.... if you were going to resell and had a choice to pick up black wi-fi only either 16 or 32 GB which one would you by to resell? Just wonderin'

 

[faustfire]

Seems more like someone going into the area where a disaster has taken place and selling people water for $25 a bottle, ie, screwing people in need over for a profit. Not as bas as the water scenario, but still not good.

Uhhhhh...Not even close to the same thing.

Wow...just...Wow.

Are your parents brother and sister?

 

[TheWheelMan]

Are your parents brother and sister?

Ooh, just as mature as the other guy. Golly gee, you really made your point, huh?

Other people besides you want an iPad...some are willing to get up earlier, stand in line longer, and/or pay more for it. Why do you 'deserve' one more than they do? iPads are getting into the hands of people who place the highest value on them, and resellers are just the method by which it's happening...call it justification if it makes you feel better blaming someone else than just sucking it up and admitting the reality of the market, but there's nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

People whose sole goal is to take iPads off shelves just to sell them over retail price for profit don't "want iPads more," they want to profit at the expense of others. And those people don't value the iPads, they value taking money from people desperate enough to pay their prices to get one. I get that if people are willing to pay those prices, they share the blame. It still doesn't make scalping them (and that is exactly what they are doing) is right.

 

[manman]

Ooh, just as mature as the other guy. Golly gee, you really made your point, huh?



People whose sole goal is to take iPads off shelves just to sell them over retail price for profit don't "want iPads more," they want to profit at the expense of others. And those people don't value the iPads, they value taking money from people desperate enough to pay their prices to get one. I get that if people are willing to pay those prices, they share the blame. It still doesn't make scalping them (and that is exactly what they are doing) is right.

You missed the point there. I wasn't saying the resellers are the ones that want it more, I'm saying the people they are selling it to are. They are getting the ipad into the hands of people that want them enough to pay more than some others. Retail is not some magic price that is exactly what a product is worth... By your logic the stores are also scum because they are buying the iPad at a lower price and turning around and selling it at a mark up purely for profit. What, you think they're selling it to us because we really want an iPad and they just want to help make us happy?

I'm not saying the people willing to pay the higher prices 'share the blame'. I'm saying there is no blame to share. There's a product out in the market, and at the moment supply is low and demand is high. The 'value' of this item on the market has come to a point that is higher than the msrp...that's all. It's a normal thing it's not some horrible event we need to place blame for.

 

[grawk]

The sellers aren't the ones creating the market, the buyers are. Everyone willing to pay a $200 premium for a consumer device has created the demand that the resellers are exploiting. If people were willing to wait, the resellers would be stuck with their ipads, and the price would drop. Simple economics. There's no moral question here, it's just a consumer toy.

 

[TheWheelMan]

You missed the point there. I wasn't saying the resellers are the ones that want it more, I'm saying the people they are selling it to are. They are getting the ipad into the hands of people that want them enough to pay more than some others. Retail is not some magic price that is exactly what a product is worth... By your logic the stores are also scum because they are buying the iPad at a lower price and turning around and selling it at a mark up purely for profit. What, you think they're selling it to us because we really want an iPad and they just want to help make us happy?

I'm not saying the people willing to pay the higher prices 'share the blame'. I'm saying there is no blame to share. There's a product out in the market, and at the moment supply is low and demand is high. The 'value' of this item on the market has come to a point that is higher than the msrp...that's all. It's a normal thing it's not some horrible event we need to place blame for.

Yeah, well, I still don't like it. I think sometimes right and wrong don't have to involve some high moral dilemma to still have merit, and I think this is wrong. The store is a legit distribution channel. Those inserting themselves in between are not. But whatever.

 

[aluren]

I have no problems with resale, but I think Apple should implement something to let users buy first and scalpers second. Perhaps they should limit the same credit card purchases to 2 per week or something. That way at least the scalpers have to do some work to get those new credit cards. I just don't think Apple is doing enough.

 

[mwjd299]

Everyone is allowed to buy 2, so don't feel bad. That's Apples policy.
If you keep going back to buy 2, then you become a scalper.

 

[faustfire]

Ooh, just as mature as the other guy. Golly gee, you really made your point, huh?



People whose sole goal is to take iPads off shelves just to sell them over retail price for profit don't "want iPads more," they want to profit at the expense of others. And those people don't value the iPads, they value taking money from people desperate enough to pay their prices to get one. I get that if people are willing to pay those prices, they share the blame. It still doesn't make scalping them (and that is exactly what they are doing) is right.

Are you planning on marrying your iPad when you do finally procure one?

Are you leaving to live on the moon in the next month?

Your lack of success in finding an iPad to purchase is a minor inconvenience, get over it. It will fit the iPad shaped hole in your soul just as well in a few weeks when they are more plentiful.

 

[Tsuchiya]

In theory there is nothing wrong with it. You buy a product for a price, and due to supply and demand, you resell at a profit. Basic business.

However, in this case I do think it's selfish that you are potentially denying others who actually want an iPad and have invested a significant amount of time waiting in line for one. It's greedy and quite unfair.

Before anyone feels like flaming, yes I realise it's just another gadget, and yes I realise that everyone will eventually get hold of one if they have some patience. BUT, I would like to think that if I take some time out of my day to go and queue up for an iPad 2 this Friday, something that I've been looking forward to as long as anyone else on here, I would be able to get the model I want and not have to worry about a group of people ahead of me buying up stock just to make a quick buck. Simple courtesy.

 

[Photomax]

This tug of war "discussion" is being waged on several threads at once.

Basically I see both sides to this.

Some will say Apple is reaping the benefits of all this hyper demand for this product. There is one thing I would address if I was Apple: in these situations the whole high end buying experience is being compromised.

This is why Steve Jobs created the whole Apple Store concept: very stylish buying experience with lots of supportive assistance. Overall this iPad buying experience is giving a ton of buyers endless frustration. People are wasting endless time waiting in line, writing Python stock checking code, making phone calls, driving around, rambling endlessly on forums and slinging blame around. We now have name calling, racial slurs, profiling and anger to contend with. Its only a matter of time before someone boils over and commits violence. Its not pretty. It does not match well with the super cool concept that is the Apple Store. I wish Apple would figure out a better, more equitable system in these early days of hot product releases.

 

[coldpower27]

So we are now comparing selling iPads to people who didn't want to stand in line or wait as the same as selling water to people during a disaster?

The concept is the same...

The point of the example is that at what point does it become wrong to do this kind of behavior...

 

[Rafterman]

Simple courtesy.

Unfortunately, courtesy is unknown in the 21st century. As is honor and integrity. Only the mantra of "anything to make a buck" is followed anymore.

 

[coldpower27]

This tug of war "discussion" is being waged on several threads at once.

Basically I see both sides to this.

Some will say Apple is reaping the benefits of all this hyper demand for this product. There is one thing I would address if I was Apple: in these situations the whole high end buying experience is being compromised.

This is why Steve Jobs created the whole Apple Store concept: very stylish buying experience with lots of supportive assistance. Overall this iPad buying experience is giving a ton of buyers endless frustration. People are wasting endless time waiting in line, writing Python stock checking code, making phone calls, driving around, rambling endlessly on forums and slinging blame around. We now have name calling, racial slurs, profiling and anger to contend with. Its only a matter of time before someone boils over and commits violence. Its not pretty. It does not match well with the super cool concept that is the Apple Store. I wish Apple would figure out a better, more equitable system in these early days of hot product releases.

Ok, one limit it to only 1 per household...within the first month... and in order to enforce this your credit card info as well as where your staying information is taken down...

This database would have to be country wide though....

No cash purchases for now...

 

[Rafterman]

Ok, one limit it to only 1 per household...within the first month... and in order to enforce this your credit card info as well as where your staying information is taken down...

This database would have to be country wide though....

No cash purchases for now...

Actually, a simple "no cash for the first month" policy would have prevented most of these problems.

 

[manman]

people trying to make this about honor and dignity etc are just ridiculous. Anything to make a buck...including...*gasp* selling something to somebody that wants one! YOU MONSTER!!!

How dare you help someone get something they really want for a price they are completely willing to pay AND benefit in the process...I can think of no greater evil.


On a side note, I love how some people seem to have a problem with a guy being able to freely buy a product and sell it and whatever price he chooses, but no problem with a company dictating how you are allowed to pay for things and requiring you to give over a bunch of personally identifiable info in order to buy a freaking toy... seriously? Apple would much rather have things they way they are than lose sales and put people off by throwing a bunch of regulations into your purchase and making it a pain in the ass. They're not new to this- they know exactly what they're doing.

 

[deeddawg]

Actually, a simple "no cash for the first month" policy would have prevented most of these problems.

Yeah and look at the racial thing they got blamed for last time they did that.

 

[manman]

The concept is the same...

The point of the example is that at what point does it become wrong to do this kind of behavior...

No, the concepts are not even remotely the same. Water is a basic human survival need, iPads are not. If people want to stay alive, whether or not they consume water is not a choice. Whether you own an iPad is. Unfortunately this distinction seems difficult for a lot of people to make, because people are constantly saying stupid things like resellers are 'extorting' people, or 'forcing' them to pay over retail, when nobody has been forced to do anything. You want to make an analogy- compare it to people buying PS3's, turning around and trying to sell them for 300$ over retail. Yes, it's exactly like that...completely fine.

At what point does it become wrong? Exactly at the point where you do it with a product that people NEED and don't just want. See how easy that was?

 

[Rafterman]

people trying to make this about honor and dignity etc are just ridiculous. Anything to make a buck...including...*gasp* selling something to somebody that wants one! YOU MONSTER!!!

How dare you help someone get something they really want for a price they are completely willing to pay AND benefit in the process...I can think of no greater evil.


On a side note, I love how some people seem to have a problem with a guy being able to freely buy a product and sell it and whatever price he chooses, but no problem with a company dictating how you are allowed to pay for things and requiring you to give over a bunch of personally identifiable info in order to buy a freaking toy... seriously? Apple would much rather have things they way they are than lose sales and put people off by throwing a bunch of regulations into your purchase and making it a pain in the ass. They're not new to this- they know exactly what they're doing.

People like you don't get it and never will. If you don't see the difference with a company selling a product it makes for a small profit, vs scalpers, who take away product from these companies, make them unavailable to regular consumers who want to pay a reasonable price, and resell them for criminal prices (and I don't give one crud whether there are people willing to pay those prices), then I can't say anything to make you understand. Some Apple stores have been actively trying to discourage the scalping, so no, Apple isn't happy on how things are progressing with the scalping. It hurts their image to see thousands of people turned away.

And finally, if someone wants an iPad, no matter how much a "freaking toy" it may seem to you, its not your g-d business to criticize them. Who are you, the final decider of what is important in life or not? If they want an iPad, then they they want one and its not up to you to decide whether its a worthy purchase or not.

 

[jedivulcan]

Everyone is allowed to buy 2, so don't feel bad. That's Apples policy.
If you keep going back to buy 2, then you become a scalper.

A guy walked into a Target today and bought the entire stock of 16gb black wifi iPads ... three of them. Target's policy was five per person. No doubt the guy was a scalper. Honked off about it too.

 

[Apple OC]

I have bought eight iPad 2s. Sold seven one them, the 64 GB I kept for myself has been paid for already with the money I've made selling the others. I plan on going tomorrow to buy even more, and paying random people to buy some for me, I'll probably buy ten tomorrow.

sounds like a wishful dream ... thousands may believe this ... not me

 

[benhollberg]

sounds like a wishful dream ... thousands may believe this ... not me

Well it worked, and then I got banned.

 

[jdminpdx]

My better half and I are at odds on this...

They would like an iPad2 for themselves... and I admit that though under normal situations I would wait for the iPad3...

Spending some time browsing stores or waiting in line seems a nice way to get them one; and update mine...

Hate to say it... but I am tired of missing the boat on the wave of not making a profit - but but making the demand work in my favor... held of on all the other waves in the past... just did not feel right...

Karma does come around... and never really thought of doing this before...