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Is Virtual/Mixed Reality even ready as a mainstream marketable thing yet? I don’t know anyone who uses it. But I guess you gotta start somewhere. I’m just not sold on the idea yet. Seems very niche at best. Especially for $3,000! But what do I know? 🤷‍♂️

Some people are using it already. Not many due to cost, but for some industries the cost is inconsequential.

We've been using $5k (AUD) HoloLens units for remote support on some of our mines because:
  • downtime on machinery can be 10s of 100s of thousand dollars per hour
  • getting somebody to fly to site can be several days or even week(s)
  • the day rate for a tech to fly to site is about the cost of a HoloLens unit without any transport costs and in most cases you'd be paying for multiple days to get to/from site and do the work
If the unit can help fix ONE problem and prevent a tech visit to site in its lifetime, it has paid for itself several times over.
 
I'm torn between sharing some of the collective skepticism, AND the hindsight that Apple does have a habit of inventing the future, whether it takes a couple of generations of product or not. Hoping they can crack this Metaverse nonsense once and for all, and if not, that it dies a quick death.
 
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You have a point but I wouldn't put anything pass Apple. You know what makes sense. I know what makes sense. But Apple doesn't always do what makes sense. So I have no idea.
Before Apple started to sell AS Macs they had the DTK Mac Mini with a A12z to test native apps, that’s the last something like that worked out nicely before the first M1 Macs arrived November 2020, they were available WWDC 2020. That was also the example they got full reimbursement too later on. Where as in this similar example the distinct lack of AR enhanced online content will take years for it to fly well. You can’t justify the rumored price at all.
 
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I would have interest, but 1) content will be a huge issue. I don’t want tech demo video games and VR worlds/homes. Show me front row seats to any concert or ball game. 2) I’m not a buyer at even $500 let alone 3 GRAND. I have a fantastic PS5 and that was $500.
 
Apple is the only company with bugs in their software obviously.
No, surely not.

However, Apple is the only Trillion dollar company that I know that routinely has serious software regressions on a + 0.1 release, that asks for bug reports from developers and the public (which it then keeps secret), then ignores these reports, keeps not fixing the bugs for 3+ months, and releases the new version with a regression anyway.

I love Apple, but if you have come here to defend Apple's history with breaking regression bugs... I wish you luck!
 
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Health and activity trackers were an easy sell then and now.

As were cell phones and pda computers (before iPhone/smartphones took over).

But AR/VR has been out for a while and is still very(!) niche for several good reasons.

What experience or activity can only be done through Apple’s headset and isn’t done better on a Mac or other current Apple or competitor product?

I really struggle to guess what this could be.
Cellphones took 15 years to take off so they were not an easy sell. PDAs never became mainstream.

To answer your last question, a headset would be good for immersive entertainment and media viewing, fitness, telepresence/live events, communication, training and education.
 
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At a basic level, this is a really easy sell. Once again, a company is over complicating it and delivering features no one but silicon valley execs need. Talk about an echo chamber. Avatars blah blah blah. How about:

- Infinite screens of any size either floating in your field of view or GPS pinned
- Floating iOS apps
- Extension of the Apple Watch and iPhone - Watch the holographic images zip out and enhance those experiences
- Enhanced personal assistant - talking more smart ChatGPT than dumb as hell Siri. It needs to be flawless and impressive on day 1 or people won't care - just like apple maps has the rep for sucking to this day
- Prescription lenses? Ugh. Jobs would've seen the amazing opportunity to have revolutionary lenses that adjust according to your vision. This would upend the glasses industry too.
- Light custom frames in various should be a starting point not an end point. Bring them out with limited features - an apple watch for your eyes, and build from there over a few years

Insisting on this stupid avatar metaverse stuff is really something no on in the world cares one iota about. Why simply replicate real life? Enhance it! Not to mention the avatars apple makes now (Memoji) have messed up proportions - arms too long and all sorts of other weirdness. Uncanny valley and overpriced useless hardware - here we come!
 
They sure make a crapload of money for doing things that “make no sense”
Yep. That's how many things work. Often products or design decisions that make no sense still make money. And that is why companies will continue to do things that don't make sense for users. And this is why from their own perspective, it makes sense to push nonsense out.
 
It’s not that I don’t like the product. It’s just I don’t think the world is ready yet. The biggest factor is the $3000 price point. It’s already starting off overly expensive. Niche market product!
I was using touch screens at an aquarium in 1992. It was obvious they were a fantastic idea. The world was just not ready for them then. It's not only the one device or technology. Other things have to be ready in order for that one device or technology to work in the market. Content, supporting technology like batteries, sharper screens and suitable materials to make the device easy, comfortable and affordable, content delivery infrastructure....
 
At a basic level, this is a really easy sell. Once again, a company is over complicating it and delivering features no one but silicon valley execs need. Talk about an echo chamber. Avatars blah blah blah. How about:

- Infinite screens of any size either floating in your field of view or GPS pinned
- Floating iOS apps
- Extension of the Apple Watch and iPhone - Watch the holographic images zip out and enhance those experiences
- Enhanced personal assistant - talking more smart ChatGPT than dumb as hell Siri. It needs to be flawless and impressive on day 1 or people won't care - just like apple maps has the rep for sucking to this day
- Prescription lenses? Ugh. Jobs would've seen the amazing opportunity to have revolutionary lenses that adjust according to your vision. This would upend the glasses industry too.
- Light custom frames in various should be a starting point not an end point. Bring them out with limited features - an apple watch for your eyes, and build from there over a few years

Insisting on this stupid avatar metaverse stuff is really something no on in the world cares one iota about. Why simply replicate real life? Enhance it! Not to mention the avatars apple makes now (Memoji) have messed up proportions - arms too long and all sorts of other weirdness. Uncanny valley and overpriced useless hardware - here we come!


Indeed. Enhanced night vision; colour mapping for colour blind people to make it easy for them to see things that they would normally not be able to see. The possibilities really are limitless.
The only real problem is size and cost. Presumably both will come down.
The reality is that we have to start somewhere. Still, if it costs $3,000 there is no way I will buy one unless the use case is absolutely indispensable.
 
I'm hoping it does because recent rumors have indicated that Apple is diverting resources and manpower from other products and divisions to focus on this thing, and for someone completely uninterested in it, that sucks.
I didn't really want it to flop, but I know there's no way I'd buy it, but you have a very good point...
 
Without a killer app, these will fail. No software company will invest in porting apps to it unless they see a big enough market to justify the cost. None of the vr/ar games are going to port to Mac, let alone to a $3k headset. If apples smart, they’ll just launch it as a developer preview, not a ga product.
 
Sounds like these issues have been largely solved. Assume Apple did their homework. https://vrlowdown.com/why-is-vr-blurry/
Nothing in that article is a solves the fact that a pixel (even a really small one) 2 inches from your eye will cover too large an area in your field of view to make it useful as a high resolution workspace. The article has some good explanations and suggestions for anyone who is not getting optimal performance from their VR gear, but “acceptable” detail in a game is far from what is needed for the “virtual workspace“ scenario.
 
When the Apple Watch Ultra came out, it was marketed to those who operate in extreme/remote conditions. In SoCal, I see every basic joe-shmo wearing one of those.

The point is, there are always people who complain about the price, but there are likely more people willing to spend buckets of money on whatever Apple makes.
 
Nothing in that article is a solves the fact that a pixel (even a really small one) 2 inches from your eye will cover too large an area in your field of view to make it useful as a high resolution workspace. The article has some good explanations and suggestions for anyone who is not getting optimal performance from their VR gear, but “acceptable” detail in a game is far from what is needed for the “virtual workspace“ scenario.
You need the right pixel density per degree and optical clarity to resolve that resolution, which means that there will be a headset in the next 5-10 years that is exactly as crisp as a 4K monitor and will be capable of producing a virtual work setup at exactly the same image quality.

It may not be this Apple headset, but it will be a future headset down the road.
 


Some Apple employees are concerned about the usefulness and price point of the company's upcoming mixed-reality headset, The New York Times reports.


apple-mixed-reality-headset-concept-by-david-lewis-and-marcus-kane.jpg


Apple headset concept by David Lewis and Marcus Kane

Initial enthusiasm around the device at the company has apparently become skepticism, according to eight current and former Apple employees speaking to The New York Times. The change of tone reportedly marks an unprecedented level of concern about a new Apple product inside the company, in stark contrast to previous product launches that were pursued with single-mindedness and enthusiasm.

The first-generation headset is purportedly seen as a bridge to future products that require technological breakthroughs, but many employees are said to have worries about the device's $3,000 price point, utility, and unproven market. Skeptics have questioned if the device is "a solution in search of a problem," unlike the iPod and iPhone. The headset has apparently not been "driven by the same clarity" as Apple's other products.

Some Apple employees have defected from the project due to doubts about its potential, while others have been fired over lack of progress with some of the device's functionality, including Siri. The discontent is said to extend to members of Apple's leadership, some of whom have questioned the device's prospects.

The headset was apparently presented to many of Apple's top 100 executives via a video at a corporate retreat five years ago made by design chief Jony Ive. The video depicted a man in a London taxi wearing an augmented reality headset calling his wife in San Francisco, sharing the sights of London through the husband's eyes.

The New York Times reaffirmed previous reports that the headset will feature a carbon fiber frame, a hip-mounted battery, outward-facing cameras, two 4K displays, prescription lenses for wearers of glasses, and a "reality dial" to increase or decrease real-time video pass-through from the surrounding environment.

Apple has focused on ensuring that the device excels at videoconferencing and time spent as virtual avatars, calling the headset's main application "copresence." There will also be custom high-resolution TV content from Hollywood filmmakers including Jon Favreau. Despite similarities with Meta's headsets and the "metaverse," Apple is expected to pitch the device as something that differs from existing offerings.

The device will also offer tools for artists, designers, and engineers, enabling drawing and image editing in 3D space. There will also be applications for editing virtual reality video using hand gestures. As a result, it is expected to appeal to businesses and design companies more than ordinary consumers. Some employees have allegedly speculated that Apple could again delay the headset's launch, even though manufacturing is now underway for an unveiling in June.

Article Link: Some Apple Employees Seriously Concerned About Mixed-Reality Headset as Announcement Draws Closer
Even if it does something incredibly useful the price point is going to be way too high for me to consider it. Every other attempt by Google and Amazon and Microsoft to develop a headset has proven expensive and limited in ability. I've tried to use several, and my brother in law still has them put away because they were novelty items not really useful tools but he was unwilling to sell his for the pennies on the dollar that he could get for them. I sold mine. With the price rumored to be around $3K I'm not even curious. Maybe there are niche applications for such a device but I have never seen any games/apps that you can control using goggles and gloves or other input devices that justify the cost. If this is the future of Apple, buy Tesla I guess. They have a working power table like the mat Apple tried to introduce a few years ago about to go on the market. I'm not sure how badly I need THAT either but at least it has a functionality I can see a use for me as long as the price isn't ridiculous.
 
Nobody asked for the Ipad , Iphone , AirPods .. etc etc . People don’t know what they want until somebody releases it .
Let them take their chance
 
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I'm concerned only because I'm a stockholder. As for myself, I have yet to see the point of things like this. If they had gotten the NFL contract and let you be anywhere in the virtual stadium during the game I would have paid $10k for that without a blink. But that has gone by the wayside. I'll continue to enjoy the stock and ignore the rest of it all. 😀
 
I didn't know I personally had that much influence over Apple and the successes or failures of their products, but cool, I guess. 🤷‍♂️

Let's see, what else: I hope M3 and the next iMac will be colossal failures!

(Did I just guarantee the success of those products? I admit I have an ulterior motive here... 😉) Or does Apple know I'm being sarcastic? 😳
Please hope I go bankrupt!
 
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