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deevey

macrumors 65816
Dec 4, 2004
1,338
1,379
I can run badly engineered songs on my expensive monitors and they don't blow. :)

Badly engineered is one thing, run a badly distorted full frequency burst and up your gain to 100% on your inputs and Amp
But that does not apply here. Apple designed, or at least was supposed to design, the entire circuit to work together (amplifier and speaker). This should have included protection for the speakers, which are needed for class D amps during turn on. These same protections should also protect the speaker against large signals. These protection are build into amplifier chips these days, but they don't have to be used or they can be used incorrectly. Or if one is worried about cost the protections can be ignored.

Here is the thing. Computer engineers are not audio engineers, so my guess is that the circuit was not designed by someone who knew what they were doing, or else this would not be happening. It's a simple design calculation and a few components to prevent the problem. Something one would expect on a high end laptop.

If its happening only on this particular App, I would assume that Premier is using its own audio driver (or something of that nature) which is for some reason bypassing the "normal" amplifier limit and/or upping the preamp on the mic input to obscene, far above the stock levels probably causing some kind of feedback loop (hence the reason turning the mic off "solves" the issue).

Distortion kills speakers espessially ones with tiny coils almost as fast as an amp thats too big. I've worked in enough venues to know that despite even circuit protections, limiters, proper amp matching etc.. That there is always one DJ who can manage to blow a few speakers by redlining everything for a short while.

IMHO in this instance Adobe appears to be that DJ
 
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0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,820
If so, we'd be hearing more about this and not just on the MBP. Premiere Pro is run on a multitude of Windows setups, some on mobile workstations. I wouldn't put it past Apple to use inferior components in their product. Might be worth getting iFixIt to do a teardown and inspection of the top half and see what's going on.
 

Michaelhuisman

macrumors member
Oct 12, 2011
43
18
Netherlands
This actually happened to me, however, NO Adobe software. It was Apple’s MainStage. Spurious sound of probably 3 seconds, loudest thing I’ve ever heard come out of an Apple laptop and I’m a sound designer. It was something like 10 buzzers going off at once. Cat jumped in the air... it was a “moment”. Yeah, there’s just no way speakers survive that signal. Brand-new i9 2018 MBP. I was actually still discussing with Apple wether to take Apple Care here in EU or USA where I bought this machine. PRICY repair to say the least. Took two top cases to fix. Replacing motherboard resolved the problem. Now for the sad part: since this machine has now had an issue (although now repaired), this machine can never be added under Apple Care! (A sort of once had a pre-existing condition scenario - that’s when it’s clear that Apple Care is an insurance and not a warranty.).
 

Burger Thing

macrumors 65816
Jan 7, 2009
1,061
1,009
Around the World
If a software bug can cause the speaker to blow, it means that not only the hardware is poorly designed, but the operating system as well. Plain and simple.
 

cocoua

macrumors 6502a
May 19, 2014
917
536
madrid, spain
Yes.
Four Philips screws to remove the back cover. Two screws on each speaker attached to the topcase.
That would be it.

A sacrilege from the industrial designer POV!! That would be 0,15 cnts more on production cost, plus the extra cost transport added weight, plus the extra size... all this means a real mess!! Designers can’t afford all this.
The world don’t deserve all this cahos.
 

amaze1499

macrumors 6502a
Oct 16, 2014
963
946
This should be interesting. Who foots the bill? Apple? Adobe?

Good question. Lets take a look at the software agreements. I reckon the consumer needs to agree to cede all claims in case the software is causing hardware issues by confirming legal agreements before installation.
 

sracer

macrumors G4
Apr 9, 2010
10,284
13,017
where hip is spoken
Well, it does.
This is an example.
Right... this is why it is Apple's fault. The person I was responding to dismissed blaming Apple as simply something that MacRumors people do. I gave a short response as to why it is valid to place the blame at Apple's feet.

An operating system should not allow an application (firmware and low-level drivers excluded) to damage the hardware it is running on. If something like Adobe Premiere Pro can cause physical damage to the speakers or circuitry, then that is a failing on Apple's part.

The same would be true if Photoshop caused the LCD panel on the Macbook Pro to permanently display only grayscale.
 

Christian Jánský

macrumors newbie
Feb 7, 2019
1
0
I'm a full-time editor and use Premiere daily. This issue has presented itself with my 2016 MacBook Pro. I generally use headphones but recently needed to edit using the speakers and afterward was left with a damaged speaker (the right speaker specifically). It's out of warranty and I haven't taken it in to an Apple store but it's interesting to know that others are experiencing similar issues. If it's widespread, hopefully it generates a quality program. Fingers crossed.

This is PRECISELY what happened to me as well although I am not even aware I've used Premiere at all. My 2016 MBP has actually been repaired (= the top case incl. speakers) two times and the problem always came back (so the third time now). Seems like the last few generations have really, really botched speakers. Would be delighted to have it replaced under some Apple quality program, but pretty doubtful.
 

SarcasticJoe

macrumors 6502a
Nov 5, 2013
607
221
Finland
Bose is kind of infamous for using some pretty flimsy paper drivers in their overpriced speakers, but even their speakers are durable enough that a really horrid noise like this won't physically damage them.

Poor form Apple... Very poor form...
 

MacBH928

macrumors G3
May 17, 2008
8,303
3,706
I don't think Tim Cook ever heard of Sega... the one time #1 console vendor. Keep up the high prices and unreliable hardware. lets see where it takes you. even MacRumors are considering Razor Laptops (How is this for Emoji use?)
 

nt5672

macrumors 68040
Jun 30, 2007
3,326
7,001
Midwest USA
. . . .
Distortion kills speakers espessially ones with tiny coils almost as fast as an amp thats too big. I've worked in enough venues to know that despite even circuit protections, limiters, proper amp matching etc.. That there is always one DJ who can manage to blow a few speakers by redlining everything for a short while. . . .

I've never see a live system where the speakers and amps have been correctly matched. It is just not done. Big amps are bought to get the headroom without distortion (because that is easy to get for cheap these days) and speakers are bought to get the lowest possible price while still hopefully handling the power peaks (or small enough to be able to lug around). Full power, full excursion, speakers are expensive and take up a lot of room.

Speaker specs are often inflated and if one is not really experienced its easy to be fooled.

Distortion kills the cone, not the coil. The coil is only destroyed when over powered. Power is combination of time and energy. A blown coil makes no sound. The coil is an electrical wire, it does not melt until too much power is delivered. Like the wiring in a house, it does not melt by going from 0 to full voltage instantaneously (the worst kind of distortion).

A speaker with a blown cone can usually still be heard, but it is distorted and much much much lower volume. If not careful, it can seem like a blown coil, but it's not. A damaged cone occurs when the acceleration of the cone exceeds the ability of the cone media to react causing the cone to deform past its ability to recover. This causes distortion to be heard.

Both can be prevented by proper design; cone failures by limiting slew rates and coil failures by limiting absolute power. But proper design by the manufacturers means that their products will be expensive and may not get replaced as often. That is why you don't often get bulletproof designs in live audio systems. Performers or venues can't afford the proper design and the manufacturers don't want the proper design.

We know this because loud speakers do NOT have to distort, period. I have a pair that go well above 120 db (rock concert level) in a normal size listening room without noticeable distortion. But live venues almost always have excessive distortion. Even my speakers in live venue would distort if driven hard enough to produce 120 db in a club or outdoors. This is because correct speaker selection has to consider the air volume of the room.

Almost always live speakers are being driven harder than they were designed for (being overpowered). Sometimes, but much less often, its because the amplifiers are being overdriven.

In any case, blown speakers and usually distortion are the canonical definition of mismatched speakers, amps and room size.
 
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nikaru

macrumors 65816
Apr 23, 2009
1,119
1,395
This being MacRumors, of course Apple is at fault.
The mere fact that the speakers are able to autodestroy themself indicates whose fault it is. Properly designed speakers would not be able to reproduce high dB noise that could break the speaker's membrane. Properly designed laptop would not require changing half the laptop just to replace speaker. So yes, it is Apple's fault.
[doublepost=1549551674][/doublepost]
THIS IS WHY YOU NEED TO GET APPLECARE NO MATTER WHAT.

You can avoid the $600 bill altogether by using AppleCare. Speaker damaged and still in warranty under AppleCare? No charge.

Also use Final Cut Pro. It’s better anyway.

(Drinks more Apple Kool-Aid)

So, basically, you reward Apple for their faulty product by throwing more money to them? For 3.000$ laptop, Apple should offer 2 years standard warranty at least, as they do in European Union because the law obligates them.
 

mytdave

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2002
620
800
Software glitch? Sure. Obviously. Bad hardware design? Absolutely. Adobe might have a bug, but Apple has an engineering flaw.

There should be no case where the built-in audio amplifier can overload the built-in speakers. There is a design mismatch. Either the amplifier IC needs to be less powerful, or the speakers need to be designed to handle the full power output of the amplifier IC.

You can blame Adobe for the annoying software bug, but the blame for the blown speakers rests with Apple.
 

Marekul

Suspended
Jan 2, 2018
376
638
That's a lot of assumptions. Unsupported assumptions. We don't know enough to assess blame anywhere. Can other software trigger the conditions? I don't know. Neither do you. So that probably can happen is a bit premature dontcha think? We do that Adobe has been known to trigger it. Apple and Adobe need to work backward from there to see where fault lies, who's responsible, and ultimately what's the remedy.

If you want to crawl in Apple's colon, crawl in it about that topcase design.

Indeed it can happen under other circumstances. Happened to my 2016 Mbp after installing win10 bootcamp. I turned up the volume to max level, suddenly speaker gets 10x louder i quickly turned volume down but was left with one speakers blown.

Seems like a hw/driver issue software.
 

baryon

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2009
3,877
2,924
THIS IS WHY YOU NEED TO GET APPLECARE NO MATTER WHAT.

You can avoid the $600 bill altogether by using AppleCare. Speaker damaged and still in warranty under AppleCare? No charge.

Also use Final Cut Pro. It’s better anyway.

(Drinks more Apple Kool-Aid)

Whenever I buy a MacBook Pro, I always buy two instead of one. That way, when the first one dies, I can just start using the second one right away. I think anyone who doesn't do this is pretty much asking for trouble, and deserves the high price that Apple charges to repair their computer. I don't know why Apple even has a one year warranty, when all you have to do is just buy a second computer! Why should Apple pay for their own mistakes? It's not like it's their fault that they designed a bad product. Actually, I think $600 is a totally fair price for a pair of speakers. It's entirely the user's fault if their computer self destructs within the warranty period, anyway, and they should pay for it. If they had bought a second MacBook Pro, this would have been a total non-issue.
 

Tomkins!

macrumors regular
Jul 17, 2012
120
20
A few months ago my MacBook Pro 2017's speakers made a horrific sound when I started playing a video on Netflix in Safari, just after the Mac had woken up from sleep. The left speaker got blown out and I had to get it repaired. They replaced the entire top-case. This is on Apple, not Adobe.
 

OllieC

macrumors newbie
Feb 7, 2019
2
0
Los Angeles / London
I have had this issue twice within the last 6 months on my 2017 MacBookPro14,3 - fortunately i was within my warrenty (by a few weeks) and both times Apple repaired it free of charge.

Glad to hear that they're now admitting it's an issue!!
 

alexballvideos

macrumors member
Mar 11, 2017
72
43
Had this happen on a 2016 15" Left Speaker Blown after 4 months. Was emptying the trash when it happened. Have now muted all system sounds.
Happened again, left speaker ~ horrid screeching sound, on a 2017 15" after 14 months, was just scrolling a website in Safari which had videos on muted auto-play, top case replaced under Australian Consumer Law.

Don't use Premiere Pro.
 

Sirmausalot

macrumors 65816
Sep 1, 2007
1,135
320
Well said. Adobe software is super buggy and always has been. I've used Premiere on a few projects and always had problems, crashes etc. I moved to FCP X for the most recent (as it has finally matured) and I'd suggest Premiere users jump ship.

Badly engineered is one thing, run a badly distorted full frequency burst and up your gain to 100% on your inputs and Amp


If its happening only on this particular App, I would assume that Premier is using its own audio driver (or something of that nature) which is for some reason bypassing the "normal" amplifier limit and/or upping the preamp on the mic input to obscene, far above the stock levels probably causing some kind of feedback loop (hence the reason turning the mic off "solves" the issue).

Distortion kills speakers espessially ones with tiny coils almost as fast as an amp thats too big. I've worked in enough venues to know that despite even circuit protections, limiters, proper amp matching etc.. That there is always one DJ who can manage to blow a few speakers by redlining everything for a short while.

IMHO in this instance Adobe appears to be that DJ
 

AzureTea

macrumors newbie
Feb 8, 2019
1
0
This actually happened to me, however, NO Adobe software. It was Apple’s MainStage. Spurious sound of probably 3 seconds, loudest thing I’ve ever heard come out of an Apple laptop and I’m a sound designer. It was something like 10 buzzers going off at once. Cat jumped in the air... it was a “moment”. Yeah, there’s just no way speakers survive that signal. Brand-new i9 2018 MBP. I was actually still discussing with Apple wether to take Apple Care here in EU or USA where I bought this machine. PRICY repair to say the least. Took two top cases to fix. Replacing motherboard resolved the problem. Now for the sad part: since this machine has now had an issue (although now repaired), this machine can never be added under Apple Care! (A sort of once had a pre-existing condition scenario - that’s when it’s clear that Apple Care is an insurance and not a warranty.).

This is exactly what happened to me about 2 weeks ago on my 2018 15" MBP. I was watching a Twitch stream on low volume through the speakers when a horribly loud screeching noise suddenly started coming out of the speakers. I shut my Mac after a few seconds of it and that stopped the sound, but it was loud enough that my brother on the first floor heard it and called up to see if everything was okay. It scared the hell out of me.

I haven't had time to take it into an Apple Store to have it looked at. I'm not happy this is happening, but I'm relieved to see that there are others who have experienced the issue.
 

Candykane75

macrumors member
Jun 14, 2017
64
57
holland
THIS IS WHY YOU NEED TO GET APPLECARE NO MATTER WHAT.

You can avoid the $600 bill altogether by using AppleCare. Speaker damaged and still in warranty under AppleCare? No charge.

Also use Final Cut Pro. It’s better anyway.

(Drinks more Apple Kool-Aid)
Fun but so true always buy Apple care on a new Apple laptop!
 

merinoj

macrumors newbie
Aug 1, 2018
1
0
This is exactly what happened to me about 2 weeks ago on my 2018 15" MBP. I was watching a Twitch stream on low volume through the speakers when a horribly loud screeching noise suddenly started coming out of the speakers. I shut my Mac after a few seconds of it and that stopped the sound, but it was loud enough that my brother on the first floor heard it and called up to see if everything was okay. It scared the hell out of me.

I haven't had time to take it into an Apple Store to have it looked at. I'm not happy this is happening, but I'm relieved to see that there are others who have experienced the issue.

This happened to my 2018 15" MBP just this past weekend, I was watching a youtube video and then all of a sudden the screeching noise started. The audio was really distorted after, no matter how low the volume was set at. I took it to the Apple Store last night and they are sending it in to be repaired.
 
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