But Apple has deliberately made it so that web apps are 2nd class citizens on iOS. And people prefer apps in general (although this might be because web apps don’t feel great because of my first point).
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Spotify Submits iOS App Update With Out-of-App Purchase Options
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So you’d be happy with no Apple, and having to use Android or a dozen other small and random providers instead? Why are you even on these forums?
Yes you can. You can use Spotify for free. Also you can pay any artist anything you want.
How did you get from 'Apple should stop rentseeking and abusing the developers that help make their platforms what they are' to ' Apple doesn't exist' ?
Do you think that someone should have to agree with all of Apple's behaviours and policies to use their platform or products?
There's two somewhat different issues at stake - Apple's refusal to allow sideloading and/or independent App Stores so that consumers can choose what software to run on the hardware that they bought - which is what the EU rules are mainly about - and this nonsense about the App Store from the Land Of Regulatory Capture which lets big developers use Apple's distribution/propmotion network without paying for it, and will be of zero advantage to consumers. In fact, it will probably reduce the App Store to a collection of "free" apps that you have to pay the developer directly to use.
You sell a product in someone else's store, they take a slice of the revenue. 30% isn't unusual. If you're big enough to sell direct (which costs you money) you can keep more of the revenue - but you don't expect the stores to stock your product and let the buyers pay you direct.
...and Spotify, of all people. There's never been any problem with signing up for a Spotify subscription on the web and then using it on the iOS App.
No. US users, but apps have to be updated to support it.
In 2025 smartphones are general-purpose devices. There is no discussion about that whatsoever. As a developer you are forced to develop for the duopoly iOS and Android, and there is no discussion about that either. It is not worth questioning whether the reality is real!
They are only using 'Apple's distribution/promotion network' because there is no other choice on iOS.
I've no doubt that a lot of the bigger devs would choose to distribute their own software if they could. As i pointed out, on macOS Spotify distribute their app via download from their own site not the mac app store, because on macOS they have the freedom to do so.
Why does Apple not allow developers to distribute from their own site on ios? So they can gatekeep and rentseek from third parties on the platform. They are now being brought to account for that rentseeking.
I’d argue the App Store model is absolutely better for most consumers than the MacOS model. Not better for power users like you and me (and certainly not for developers). There’s a reason the App Store model blew up the way it did and led to far, far, far more “normal” users buying software than they did before.
Whether or not being better for most consumers is worth the drawbacks for developers is a different discussion. I think it is, most here don’t.
But I don’t think you can argue that it’s just about “rent seeking”. Of course the money is a huge part of it, but I think Apple truly believes that its model is better for its customers.
Nice win for developers. Only question I have is will this means of avoiding Apple taking a cut of the subscription fee translate to a cheaper price for the customer overall.
Or is this just a means for Epic, Spotify and others to take more of the profits for themselves of which only benefits them and not their users.
Or is this just a means for Epic, Spotify and others to take more of the profits for themselves of which only benefits them and not their users.
That’s not what I said.
I’d be happy with a less greedy apple.
I’m on these forums as I first started buying apple products in 2003 - the iPod. I now have an mba, iPhone, watch, Apple TV and AirPods.
I’ve gone from seeing a tech industry dominated by Microsoft who tried to strangle and ruin the web - and all the while produce software that was bug ridden and had an awful UX.
Apple in the 00s felt like the good guy. They seemed to get the web and were finally producing products that were a joy to use, extremely innovative and priced reasonably.
I felt very happy to support what seemed like the good guy in tech - the company that made the best products was now getting the best market share. It felt amazing.
Then when the App Store appeared - wow, it was seriously incredible. Software was easy and simple to buy and to delete. It really was such a revelation.
Ditto the iTunes Store for the iPod. And if I wanted I could buy mp3s from other music stores and load them on my iPod. You can see where I’m going here.
Anyway. It was exciting seeing the iPhone get better and better each year as we went into the teens of this century.
The Mac… thanks to intel and the butterfly keyboard, less so!
But as time went on and Apple’s insistence on making as much $ as it could do out of the App Store grated with me.
I guess philosophically I feel that first movers should absolutely be able to profit from their innovations - initially.
But after a while & when their innovations become an essential part of modern day life, I feel that any company cannot keep the grip on profits that they did originally. It stifles innovation and is basically mafia like rent seeking.
So I’m here as I do love what Apple do. But like the saying goes, the fish always rots from the head down. And I think the same is happening to Apple.
I guess my rants here won’t change that. Nothing that anyone says here will.
And if Apple continues down this route, sure I’d be ok about getting some sort of android variant (likely a degoogled version). But I still have hope & am very much hoping that Tim Cook is soon shown the door.
Spoiler alert: No. it’s just a redistribution of money from Apple to other large companies.
Exactly.
I've no issue with the app store, per se, i think Apple have lost their minds with some of the policy around it.
I think it's obviously hugely inappropriate for them to be seeking a 30% cut from companies like Netflix, Spotify, Meta etc they are obviously not providing that level of value to these companies. They would all be huge without Apple. In this instance it seems like rentseeking.
Also Apple inserting themselves in between the dev and their customer (preventing Spotify etc from talking about promotions or linking to their own site in an app that they built) is also completely unreasonable, this adds nothing to the customer experience at all. Apple also pick and choose when they want to do this, they think individual developers should handle age verification for example.
Apple even tried to charge a 30% commission on links to third party sites. This has nothing to do with user experience and everything about rentseeking. They even tried to reserve the right to audit developers books, this is outrageous, Apple is acting like a government and are finding out that they are not.
Not sure if this was already discussed here, but why would apple host the spotify or other apps on the app store for free and not get any revenue? I guess we will see very soon that apple charges spotify and others a fee for being on the app store. That fee will be passed on to customers as price you have to pay when you get the app. Apple will probably also charge spotify and others a monthly fee to be on the app store and use apples servers and bandwith. This could mean you will have to pay a monthly subscription fee for pretty much every app you use as this will be the only revenue that apple will get. All other in app purchases will be outside the apple ecosystem directly to the app developers.
Every app developer on the store already pays a yearly fee. There are plenty of free apps that Apple has never and will never get direct revenue from. Not every app is a business and profit center.
Buddy, for example, has about a dozen apps on the store, and all are completely free with no in-app pay options or ads/advertising/tracking. He does it for fun. What would happen there? Should my smoke detector app pay fees when they don't make any money other than selling the hardware?
Apple already makes a 40-50% profit on the hardware so I don't feel bad for them getting less from the App Store...which, if you remember, was supposed to be a break-even venture instead of a profit-center, according to Steve Jobs.
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I agree! A change like this often benefits the companies rather than the end user.
That is just my prerogative.
If that happens and Apple loses the market has chosen and Apple will lose.
After an inventory on my phone I have more apps than I thought. Nine of them paid for, none of them will leave the App Store. All of them make my digital life more convenient. I won’t care.
People who play games might care. But I suspect there will be additional fees, and call them junk, if you want for those apps using apples IP and collecting IAP outside of the App Store.
Why is it inappropriate? Sony takes a 30% cut from EA every time someone buys Madden on the PlayStation store, and before you say “you don’t have to use the PlayStation store” 1) you do if you want to by digitally and 2) if you buy physically the retailer takes a 30% cut.
Agree 100% on the prohibitions of saying or linking are bad (although I don’t have an issue with charging a commission for facilitating a sale). And also agree 100% that Apple should be handling the age verification.
Again, I don’t have an issue with Apple getting a commission for facilitating a sale. Especially when the reason for linking out is to get around having to compensate Apple for its IP.
I’m not saying Apple are saints, or they’re doing everything out of a fervent love of their customers. But I do think developers, large and small, either have forgotten or don’t realize how big of a role Apple has played in their success and just look at them like vultures who provide no value whatsoever.
Madden is different than Spotify, Netflix or Meta; they are services and providing 100% of their content from their servers and their infrastructure. All you are downloading is a customized browser.
Although Apple can be a dictator sometimes i prefer in app purchases for subscriptions because apple makes it easy to keep track of all of them in one place.
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Why does that matter? If we take what everyone on here is saying about Apple and apply it to Sony (and remember, there are millions of digitally-only PS5s out there that only have the ability to buy from the PlayStation store.)
- Sony is just a middleman for EA that does nothing but rent seek from developers who want to use Sony's devices to sell digital products to Sony's customers while locking out competition.
- Sony does not allow you to buy/download games from EA's website (You can no longer even buy / redeem a code that lets you download the game from the PlayStation store).
- If EA wants to reach the entire market, they have to write their games for Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft. They don't have a choice to write for just one of them.
- If EA wants to sell Madden to digital PS5 owners, they have to use the PlayStation Store. The customers bought those devices! Shouldn't they get to choose what runs on it without interference from the platform owner?
- Sony doesn't allow developers to advertise they can get games from cheaper elsewhere.
- Sony doesn't allow consumers to download a free demo and then buy the unlock code elsewhere and avoid going through Sony's payment processing
The last console I owned was a Nintendo 64, so I don't know...but I don't think 30% is fair in the case you listed either.
Which is the problem that needs to be fixed. Breaking the App Store is not the solution and won't help users in any way (we'll just have to register our payment cards on a dozen different payment services).
Not sure that I'd choose to sideload/install alternate app stores on a phone that I was using for banking/ID - I trust the Apple Store a bit more than Google Play - but maybe people should have that choice. OTOH, maybe then I could install Kodi on my Apple TV...