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I was such a huge Star Trek TNG fan growing up. HUGE. And it saddens me to say that this show is a huge letdown. The writing is actually horrible (not sure how anyone can say this is great writing), the plot feels weak, the supporting characters are weak. Patrick Stewart is having a tough time convincingly bringing Picard back to life, and I'm thinking I might even cancel my All Access subscription and not finish watching this series. I thought by Episode 3, things would be turning around for me, but nope. o_O
 
I was such a huge Star Trek TNG fan growing up. HUGE. And it saddens me to say that this show is a huge letdown. The writing is actually horrible (not sure how anyone can say this is great writing), the plot feels weak, the supporting characters are weak. Patrick Stewart is having a tough time convincingly bringing Picard back to life, and I'm thinking I might even cancel my All Access subscription and not finish watching this series. I thought by Episode 3, things would be turning around for me, but nope. o_O

Star Trek is why I got into computers and am working in that field today. Star Trek fueled my love for science and reading. I'm a huge Star Trek fan. TNG, DS9, VOY, TOS. I haven't watched Enterprise yet. I hated Discovery. Picard I can tolerate. I dislike what they're doing with the Federation. It doesn't feel like Star Trek but I'm not coming to Picard looking for Star Trek.

Picard = Federation is this big evil self interested entity overrun with foreign government influence and it must be fought with. We need heroes to rise above and save the wor... galaxy! :p Not terribly keen on this as it doesn't feel Star Trek but... we're watching it. Seeing Data again made it worth it. :)
 
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I dislike what they're doing with the Federation. It doesn't feel like Star Trek but I'm not coming to Picard looking for Star Trek.

I have this hope that in later seasons - 2 is already confirmed - Picard will save the Federation and bring everything back to its ideals.
 
Spoiler Alert!! Not for viewing if you haven't seen episode 3.

This guy covers all the details on each episode. I've been watching the episodes, then his review, and then watching the episode again. So far I'm loving Picard!! Really enjoying the mystery pieces of the plot!

 
I view TOS and TNG as lynchpins in the Star Trek universe, with DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise (which I barely watched) as spinoffs. In TOS, the Federation was a mostly unknown but benevolent entity. That changed somewhat in TNG, when it was portrayed as somewhat flawed. Picard furthers the theme by showing the Federation, or at least Starfleet, as infiltrated and less than benign. As uncomfortable as that is, it's perhaps more realistic, and it gives Picard (the admiral) a different kind of adversary.
 
The holographic screens seem dated for Star Trek post-TNG era, they have holographic tech and I would expect them to be able to produce something solid on the fly for the user.

Earth seems to be quite dated compared to how it has been shown before.

And we know who the bad guys are... that seems a bit odd to just show the audience in the first three episodes that there is a new bad, here they are, and here are their motives. I would have liked to discover more as Picard discovers it.

Also odd, The Romulan Star Empire was so heavily reliant on one system? They didn't have countless other worlds that they could inhabit in their empire? With fleets of ships, they needed help from a lower race?

The single world Star Trek makes very little sense, previously we have seen that there are many colonies that might not match the homeworlds in population, surely they are not solely dependent on one planet.
 
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The way the federation is portrayed is poor. Back in the TNG and DS9 days, the Federation always had the happy honest face on it. But every so often you got a peak behind the curtain and there was shady stuff going on. Only little bits here and there in TNG, and similarly early on in DS9. As DS9 progressed and Section 31 was talked about, you realised that the Federation was just really good at hiding the corruption.

In Picard, they appear to have given up hiding the corruption. Everyone is corrupt. Everyone is a dick. The Head Security Officer is clearly a spy and has a worse disguise than Clark Kent taking off his glasses and becoming Superman. It's just bad. Suddenly the Federation is the Romulan Empire in how transparent the corruption is. I agree that the Federation corruption should be a part of it, but not just "lol, we're clearly evil bad guys now".

This was done wrongly in Discovery too. In DS9, Section 31 was top secret stuff and had to be unmasked. In Discovery, Section 31 is common knowledge to the point where everyone knows what the black badge is. So did everyone just magically forget that?

The new shows have potential, but they appear to struggle with how to deal with the Federation the most.

Also, this "they make them in pairs" stuff is bollocks. That's a terrible plot device. It was purely to introduce us to the plot and the person involved, so come up with a better device than that for god sake.
 
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I was such a huge Star Trek TNG fan growing up. HUGE. And it saddens me to say that this show is a huge letdown. The writing is actually horrible (not sure how anyone can say this is great writing), the plot feels weak, the supporting characters are weak. Patrick Stewart is having a tough time convincingly bringing Picard back to life, and I'm thinking I might even cancel my All Access subscription and not finish watching this series. I thought by Episode 3, things would be turning around for me, but nope. o_O

Wow! I 100% disagree with this, and I, too, was a big Star Trek: TNG fan! A *lot* of time has passed since that show aired, so I don't understand all the people upset with the idea that the Federation became more corrupt as years passed? In fact, I know a lot of people who always disliked the concept of "The Federation" being the end-all, be-all of controlling the known universe and trying to keep everything together. In that sense, I find it refreshing to see that it wasn't such a picture perfect thing having this one ruling body for everyone.

Picard is old, retired, and grumpy. It's exactly how I'd expect a former commander of starships to be after he was basically kicked out of doing the one thing he loved.

Not buying the idea of making the advanced synthetic in pairs? Ok, fine. But that just doesn't bother me any more than accepting the ability to create endless foods, drinks and other goods from replicators. (Why does the show always seem to place value on obtaining the "real" versions of these things, if a replicator is recreating them at the molecular level? Should be absolutely no scientific difference in the product at that point, making it silly to do something like use a vast amount of land to grow grapes for wine, right?)
 
Wow! I 100% disagree with this, and I, too, was a big Star Trek: TNG fan! A *lot* of time has passed since that show aired, so I don't understand all the people upset with the idea that the Federation became more corrupt as years passed? In fact, I know a lot of people who always disliked the concept of "The Federation" being the end-all, be-all of controlling the known universe and trying to keep everything together. In that sense, I find it refreshing to see that it wasn't such a picture perfect thing having this one ruling body for everyone.

Picard is old, retired, and grumpy. It's exactly how I'd expect a former commander of starships to be after he was basically kicked out of doing the one thing he loved.

Not buying the idea of making the advanced synthetic in pairs? Ok, fine. But that just doesn't bother me any more than accepting the ability to create endless foods, drinks and other goods from replicators. (Why does the show always seem to place value on obtaining the "real" versions of these things, if a replicator is recreating them at the molecular level? Should be absolutely no scientific difference in the product at that point, making it silly to do something like use a vast amount of land to grow grapes for wine, right?)

Interesting points - thanks for taking the time to write them. To answer the last part - according to the books anyway, the replicators never got the taste exactly right - it wasn't as good as the real thing.

I AM a huge Star Trek TNG fan - my favorite Star Trek. Followed by DS9, VOY, TOS, --- ...

Discovery put me off because of the endless conflict and various other things that I felt tried to mirror political events / things way too obviously. Everyone was always at conflict - there was no stability. We're told at the start that the two officers in the beginning episode were together for years and years... yet a second later MUTINY! Really? Discovery = I had more Klingon dialog in 1 episode than all of TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ... combined ... about skin color... of all things.

Picard being old and grumpy is definitely hard to believe coming from TNG - he always rose above that stuff.

The Romulans saved the Alpha Quadrant from the Dominion... Why would the Federation pull back from helping them because of ... racism? Like another poster here said - the Romulan empire is massive - many planets... why would they need help?

As a self proclaimed hard core trekkie I have a problem with some of the things CBS Trek tries to pass as Star Trek.

That said, I like Picard and I'm watching it.
 
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The way the federation is portrayed is poor. Back in the TNG and DS9 days, the Federation always had the happy honest face on it. But every so often you got a peak behind the curtain and there was shady stuff going on. Only little bits here and there in TNG, and similarly early on in DS9. As DS9 progressed and Section 31 was talked about, you realised that the Federation was just really good at hiding the corruption.

In Picard, they appear to have given up hiding the corruption. Everyone is corrupt. Everyone is a dick. The Head Security Officer is clearly a spy and has a worse disguise than Clark Kent taking off his glasses and becoming Superman. It's just bad. Suddenly the Federation is the Romulan Empire in how transparent the corruption is. I agree that the Federation corruption should be a part of it, but not just "lol, we're clearly evil bad guys now".

This was done wrongly in Discovery too. In DS9, Section 31 was top secret stuff and had to be unmasked. In Discovery, Section 31 is common knowledge to the point where everyone knows what the black badge is. So did everyone just magically forget that?

The new shows have potential, but they appear to struggle with how to deal with the Federation the most.

Also, this "they make them in pairs" stuff is bollocks. That's a terrible plot device. It was purely to introduce us to the plot and the person involved, so come up with a better device than that for god sake.
As I’m holding off on watching till I can binge it, I’m not following this thread closely, but this post stands out. I understand differing opinions and different tastes, and since I’ve not watched any of it, I can’t judge but this post alarms me.

IMO, one of the characteristics of the Federation how it was originally conceived by Gene Roddenberry is basically an idealized portrayal of humanity, what we aspire to be. This is distinctly different than all of those dystopian future stories and was a source of positive vibes and inspiration, as in we’ll get over the bumps and not destroy ourselves.

Yeah sure, there where some bad apples, or a group of admirals infected with alien critters, but the core of the Federation was solid. Even though I bailed on Discovery after Season 1 for it’s weekly rollercoaster rides (S2), I still did not feel too bad about the Federation.

If the powers that be, have decided to take the Federation into a new corrupt direction possibly to play on viewer’s angst as to mirror real life events, without yet seeing it, I maybe disappointed in this too. Hopefully this is not another case of you can never go home. 😔
 
As I’m holding off on watching till I can binge it, I’m not following this thread closely, but this post stands out. I understand differing opinions and different tastes, and since I’ve not watched any of it, I can’t judge but this post alarms me.

IMO, one of the characteristics of the Federation how it was originally conceived by Gene Roddenberry is basically an idealized portrayal of humanity, what we aspire to be. This is distinctly different than all of those dystopian future stories and was a source of positive vibes and inspiration, as in we’ll get over the bumps and not destroy ourselves.

Yeah sure, there where some bad apples, or a group of admirals infected with alien critters, but the core of the Federation was solid. Even though I bailed on Discovery after Season 1 for it’s weekly rollercoaster rides (S2), I still did not feel too bad about the Federation.

If the powers that be, have decided to take the Federation into a new corrupt direction possibly to play on viewer’s angst as to mirror real life events, without yet seeing it, I maybe disappointed in this too. Hopefully this is not another case of you can never go home. 😔

I've not seen Discovery, but I am watching Picard, and it is very good. It's well written, with interesting characters and a lot of easter eggs for the cognoscenti. Don't let a few negative voices put you off.

Wasn't keen on the 'F-Bomb'. However, a single word slip up over 3 episodes is entirely forgivable.

There are no Ryan Johnsons or JJ Abrahms here.

This is the Trek you're looking for. No need to move along. You want to go home and watch Picard.
 
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I've not seen Discovery, but I am watching Picard, and it is very good. It's well written, with interesting characters and a lot of easter eggs for the cognoscenti. Don't let a few negative voices put you off.

Wasn't keen on the 'F-Bomb'. However, a single word slip up over 3 episodes is entirely forgivable.

There are no Rain Johnsons or JJ Abrahms here.

This is the Trek you're looking for. No need to move along. You want to go home and watch Picard.

When the writers think the audience is so obtuse that they won’t understand the working relationship between Picard and Raffi unless they have her call him “JL” about 10 times in a row... that is the antithesis of “well written.”

Some parts of this show feel like community theater.
 
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I've not seen Discovery, but I am watching Picard, and it is very good. It's well written, with interesting characters and a lot of easter eggs for the cognoscenti. Don't let a few negative voices put you off.

Wasn't keen on the 'F-Bomb'. However, a single word slip up over 3 episodes is entirely forgivable.

There are no Rain Johnsons or JJ Abrahms here.

This is the Trek you're looking for. No need to move along. You want to go home and watch Picard.
I’ll give it a chance.

The first season of Discovery was incredibly good, it was war. The second season after the war became weekly rollercoaster rides, which became too normalized for my tastes. It seemed that the writers started relying on this mechanism so I bailed on the series. So for no particular reason, I take it Picard has a different tempo. :)
 
Why does the show always seem to place value on obtaining the "real" versions of these things, if a replicator is recreating them at the molecular level? Should be absolutely no scientific difference in the product at that point, making it silly to do something like use a vast amount of land to grow grapes for wine, right?

Its the 21st century - we have cars (even electric ones if you don't like the fumes) yet some people still ride horses. We have quiet, efficient electric trains - yet people will travel miles to ride on a steam engine. We have high quality digital sound recording, yet some people are still buying vinyl records. You can simulate virtually any musical instrument with a computer, yet people still blow into pipes and pluck strings... because these activities aren't supposed to be practical, they're recreation and nostalgia.

Now fast-forward to the 25th century and the post-scarcity, money-free utopia of the Federation, specifically Earth. Anybody who's idea of fun is exploring strange new worlds or attending a Vulcan monastery has already warped off to the Final Frontier so, outside Star Fleet HQ and its hinterland, there are going to be a disproportionate traditionalists left behind - like Jean-Luc's tech-phobic brother (...a phobia that he unfortunately extended to fire alarms) as introduced in TNG. Everybody who's not a Starship Officer or Warp Drive Scientist is going to need something to stave off the boredom...

Chateau Picard probably isn't there as a viable business serving a market need - but it provides recreation for the "owners" (yeah... Trek really hasn't thought through this whole post-scarcity socialism thing) and doubtless many locals who pitch in at harvest time (and are probably paid in wine). On top of that, they're preserving culture and craft knowledge, preserving biodiversity (the grapes, the insects that pollinate them, various bacteria, moulds...) and the character of the local landscape (this is Europe where the vineyards and farms have been part of the "natural" ecology for millennia).

Or, if you want a realist explanation for some of the anachronisms, remember the parable of the salt shakers from TOS: the props department needed a salt pots to use as bait for the salt-sucking monster, they went out and bought a bunch of ultra-modern stainless steel cruet sets, then realised that the audience wouldn't recognise what they were meant to be, so they grabbed a generic salt pot from the canteen and used the futuristic cruet as McCoy's operating instruments...

So, while in the 25th century, vice disillusioned ex-Star Fleet first officers who let themselves go might turn to esoteric futuristic vices that would require 10 minutes of exposition to explain, its a lot quicker and easier to show them chopping up some leaves and vaping the result (sparking up a joint would have been even better, but I guess Generation Z have already lost the secret of man's red flower...)

(...in Iain Banks' Culture novels - in many ways, the Federation turned up to 11 and given an R-rating - they all have 'drug glands' in their brain which can deliver a huge range of recreational pharmaceuticals on demand - easy to depict in prose, could be tricky to depict on screen. They also catch colds as recreation...)

Why would the Federation pull back from helping them because of ... racism?

It's been implied that there's a Romulan-led anti-AI/racial purity conspiracy behind this (...any bets that its going to turn out that they nova-bombed their own sun?) - also, ISTR that it was actually mentioned that some of the other Federation member races who had suffered more directly at the hands of the Romulans were strongly opposed to the support.

the Romulan empire is massive - many planets... why would they need help?

Well, empires tend to be pretty top-down affairs that fall into chaos if their capital is threatened - 'all those planets' are mainly occupied territory and most of Romulus' military resources will be needed to keep them in line. Even in the TNG universe, full planetary evacuation would be a big deal. Then you've also got the 'reunification' movement gathering power and influence on Romulus - with Vulcan (and hence Fedration) support.
 
Its the 21st century - we have cars (even electric ones if you don't like the fumes) yet some people still ride horses. We have quiet, efficient electric trains - yet people will travel miles to ride on a steam engine. We have high quality digital sound recording, yet some people are still buying vinyl records. You can simulate virtually any musical instrument with a computer, yet people still blow into pipes and pluck strings... because these activities aren't supposed to be practical, they're recreation and nostalgia.

Now fast-forward to the 25th century and the post-scarcity, money-free utopia of the Federation, specifically Earth. Anybody who's idea of fun is exploring strange new worlds or attending a Vulcan monastery has already warped off to the Final Frontier so, outside Star Fleet HQ and its hinterland, there are going to be a disproportionate traditionalists left behind - like Jean-Luc's tech-phobic brother (...a phobia that he unfortunately extended to fire alarms) as introduced in TNG. Everybody who's not a Starship Officer or Warp Drive Scientist is going to need something to stave off the boredom...

Chateau Picard probably isn't there as a viable business serving a market need - but it provides recreation for the "owners" (yeah... Trek really hasn't thought through this whole post-scarcity socialism thing) and doubtless many locals who pitch in at harvest time (and are probably paid in wine). On top of that, they're preserving culture and craft knowledge, preserving biodiversity (the grapes, the insects that pollinate them, various bacteria, moulds...) and the character of the local landscape (this is Europe where the vineyards and farms have been part of the "natural" ecology for millennia).

Or, if you want a realist explanation for some of the anachronisms, remember the parable of the salt shakers from TOS: the props department needed a salt pots to use as bait for the salt-sucking monster, they went out and bought a bunch of ultra-modern stainless steel cruet sets, then realised that the audience wouldn't recognise what they were meant to be, so they grabbed a generic salt pot from the canteen and used the futuristic cruet as McCoy's operating instruments...

So, while in the 25th century, vice disillusioned ex-Star Fleet first officers who let themselves go might turn to esoteric futuristic vices that would require 10 minutes of exposition to explain, its a lot quicker and easier to show them chopping up some leaves and vaping the result (sparking up a joint would have been even better, but I guess Generation Z have already lost the secret of man's red flower...)

(...in Iain Banks' Culture novels - in many ways, the Federation turned up to 11 and given an R-rating - they all have 'drug glands' in their brain which can deliver a huge range of recreational pharmaceuticals on demand - easy to depict in prose, could be tricky to depict on screen. They also catch colds as recreation...)



It's been implied that there's a Romulan-led anti-AI/racial purity conspiracy behind this (...any bets that its going to turn out that they nova-bombed their own sun?) - also, ISTR that it was actually mentioned that some of the other Federation member races who had suffered more directly at the hands of the Romulans were strongly opposed to the support.



Well, empires tend to be pretty top-down affairs that fall into chaos if their capital is threatened - 'all those planets' are mainly occupied territory and most of Romulus' military resources will be needed to keep them in line. Even in the TNG universe, full planetary evacuation would be a big deal. Then you've also got the 'reunification' movement gathering power and influence on Romulus - with Vulcan (and hence Fedration) support.

Wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading your post. Thanks for taking the time to write it. Thanks also for the insight on the effect of the Romulans on other Federation members - that makes sense.
 
Consider Picard's anger in the First Contact movie:


He's definitely capable of losing control of his emotions.....

But that said? Yeah, I'm not much of a Discovery fan. Really never watched more than a few episodes because I didn't like so many things about it.

Picard being old and grumpy is definitely hard to believe coming from TNG - he always rose above that stuff.
 
Hopefully they stop calling him JL. That is completely out of 24th century dialog that we know off, it is far to USA for my liking.
 
Third episode was interesting. Not much to really say about it other than I'm still getting used to the Scientist character. Loved the time spent on the ship, even if some if it was on the holodeck. The part at the end was definitely a shocker... Still trying to wrap my head around that one (the ships fighting scene). Definitely peaked my interest quite a bit and I can't wait for the next episode. :)

Definitely wish I had waited to buy this on Apple (if possible?) and watch it on my own time instead of waiting with anticipation for each episode. But ... you know what they say about anticipation. :p
 
Definitely wish I had waited to buy this on Apple (if possible?) and watch it on my own time instead of waiting with anticipation for each episode. But ... you know what they say about anticipation. :p

I really prefer a episode a week. I hate having twenty episodes launch in a day, I feel compelled to watch them all at once, less be left behind in the office conversations.
 
Nice to see someone more like myself! Same here. I don't binge watch but I usually hate getting stuck at an episode and normally do 1-2-3 episodes a sitting (usually only 2).
If there is a plot element unraveling we’ll watch 3 episodes, especially if they are 40 min each. :) For The Sinner season 1, we actually binged all eight, 40ish minute long episodes in one afternoon, evening. It was that riveting.
 
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Yeah.... I've done the binge watching only a few times. The series has to be *really* compelling for me to commit that kind of time to it though. I did it back when "Jericho" came out, and I've done it for "Black Mirror" (relatively easy though, when they don't release many episodes in a season in the first place!).

Most of the time, I'm in the same boat as a few of you where I'd rather watch between 1 and maybe 3 episodes at a time.
 
I'm feeling a little let down so far. TNG was always my favourite Star Trek, and I recently watched DS9, Voyager and Enterprise. DS9 for me is a very close second. I actually really enjoy watching Discovery; it's sort of in the style of the Abrams 2009 movie. It's not timeless like TNG, but an enjoyable watch nonetheless.

Star Trek, and TNG in particular have a very utopian view of the future. I'm not sure I like, or even can buy this future where humanity has been through 3 world wars, eugenics wars, created the federation, learned tolerance of all kinds over a large period of time, and then all of a sudden, this thing with the synthetics and Romulans. And now there's money and privilege?

Apart from that, it seems forced and yet moves along very slow at the same time.
 
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