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Star Wars Expanded Universe
- Thread starter Huntn
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- star wars star wars books
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WebHead
macrumors 6502a
While the sequel trilogy was inconsistent, I didn't mind the concept of a different generation for each trilogy.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
The Last Jedi, largely killed Star Wars for me, the Rise of Skywalker had potential, even with resurrecting Palpatine, there was hope. It was better then the Last Jedi. The Force Awakens wasn't bad, but after the inital joy of seeing it, the similarities of a New Hope make it such that its not a movie that has a high re-watchability - at least for me.
I do enjoy Dave Filoni's shows in general, but The Mandolorian/Grogu movie, has not really ignited any sort of desire to plunk money down. I know it will make hundreds of millions, but will it make enough to offset the high production costs? If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say it will
Bodhitree
macrumors 68030
I thought The Force Awakens was ok, The Last Jedi was catastrophic, and The Rise of Skywalker was nearly as bad. All the spin-offs that I saw were pretty terrible, bar maybe Rogue One… it killed the magic for me. I even get irritated by the original trilogy now — it’s like it’s trying to suck me in only to be dreadfully disappointed again.
Honestly, at this point I don’t expect anything even remotely fresh or original or ‘magical’ out of the Star Wars name, it’s just a giant corporate fubar. I was never a hardcore fan, but the OT was a treasured part of my childhood, I even had some of the toys. That’s over now… I gave it one last chance with The Rise of Skywalker, and have now left it behind forever.
Disappointed at Disney’s effort doesn’t begin to describe it.
Honestly, at this point I don’t expect anything even remotely fresh or original or ‘magical’ out of the Star Wars name, it’s just a giant corporate fubar. I was never a hardcore fan, but the OT was a treasured part of my childhood, I even had some of the toys. That’s over now… I gave it one last chance with The Rise of Skywalker, and have now left it behind forever.
Disappointed at Disney’s effort doesn’t begin to describe it.
Certificate of Excellence
macrumors 68020
I liked Rogue one because it tied perfectly into the original trilogy - explained the living sacrifice that was made for the first Death Star plans. I also actually liked Solo. I did not think I’d like it very much but I ended up really enjoying it as an exploration of Hans origins his relationship with Lando & Chewie etc. & how L3-37 “became” the Millennium Falcon. That was really cool imo. The next three were pretty bad. I’ve not watched them once outside of seeing them the first time. They’re like a really bad alternate universe version of the original trilogy.
The only part of all three that I admit to enjoying is when you hear the Millennium Falcons sublight engines & slam overdrive fire up for the first time in a long time under that tarp. I heard that in the theater and I admit that was pretty Fing awesome to hear 🙂
That was the highlight for me. I did not like a defeated old Han, I hated that he got offed by his whiny turned wannabe Sith Lord, Darth Vader fan boy son, that Chewie didn’t get to blow off his arm or leg at least in that scene, that they turned Luke Skywalker into some talking-to-the-trees, alien cow tit sucking, whacko hermit, that they crapped all over the Han & Leia love arc etc. that they took Po Dameron and made his Han Solo-esque shoot by the hip style a complete liability … I can go on and on.
It’s just really bad and that’s sad because it’s not the actors fault. Daisy Ridley wasn’t my fav I admit but I’m a legitimate fan of John Boyega and Adam Driver and Oscar Isaac’s other works they’ve done. The writing was pulled out of a sess pool. I mean even the best actors can’t fix that.
Anyways, hoping to see the Mando movie this weekend. I’m going into it as a light hearted “fun Mando shoot em up” movie. I’ll report back if we see it.
The only part of all three that I admit to enjoying is when you hear the Millennium Falcons sublight engines & slam overdrive fire up for the first time in a long time under that tarp. I heard that in the theater and I admit that was pretty Fing awesome to hear 🙂
That was the highlight for me. I did not like a defeated old Han, I hated that he got offed by his whiny turned wannabe Sith Lord, Darth Vader fan boy son, that Chewie didn’t get to blow off his arm or leg at least in that scene, that they turned Luke Skywalker into some talking-to-the-trees, alien cow tit sucking, whacko hermit, that they crapped all over the Han & Leia love arc etc. that they took Po Dameron and made his Han Solo-esque shoot by the hip style a complete liability … I can go on and on.
It’s just really bad and that’s sad because it’s not the actors fault. Daisy Ridley wasn’t my fav I admit but I’m a legitimate fan of John Boyega and Adam Driver and Oscar Isaac’s other works they’ve done. The writing was pulled out of a sess pool. I mean even the best actors can’t fix that.
Anyways, hoping to see the Mando movie this weekend. I’m going into it as a light hearted “fun Mando shoot em up” movie. I’ll report back if we see it.
Non-Euclidean
macrumors 6502a
Hah. I thought The Force Awakens was OK. I despise the godlike stupidity of the concept of the super weapon that can destroy targets in other solar systems. Its hard to be that dumb, but it is something that JJ Abrams regularly embraces. He comes up with stupid spectacle and doesn't care how impossible or wrong the concept is. Like Spock seeing Vulcan destroyed from another planet in that solar system. I also thought it was too much of a replay of SW IV. The new characters were good though.
I liked The Last Jedi. I enjoyed the teacher-student stuff with Luke & Rey and Yoda & Luke. The rest of it was much darker like SW V. It also had its share of dumb with the space bombers. Then it totally broke the entire model of space combat in the SW universe with the concept of jumping a ship through another. Congratulations. Now why aren't people making missiles that do this? Its a cheap way to destroy capital class vessels (large warships). But in general Rian Johnson crapped over what JJ Abrams had setup and I thought that was hilarious.
I though Rise of Skywalker had a good quest storyline, which was resolved in pile of vomit. JJ Abrams again. Shocker. The stupidity of unknown legions of Sith manufacturing fleets of warships with no one noticing? Where did the resources come from? Lets make it even dumber by arming these warships with a planet killing weapon. That totally destroys the concept that it takes a large amount of Kyber crystals to create planet killers which are hosted in moon sized battle stations. And Palpatine back. And if you don't surrender to use we will destroy all your planets. This movie reeks of bad ideas implemented out of desperation with a plot a 12 year old made up.
The entire issue with this trilogy is that Kathleen Kennedy let directors run wild with no restraint to make things consistent with the Star Wars universe. No one had the ability to say "No, you can't do this, things don't work this way in SW".
So we got 3 hot messes with varying issues. Solo was by and large consistent, and accomplished its main goals of showing how Han got his blaster and justifying George Lucas' silliness of saying parsecs are a measure of time. Lord and Miller had to be replaced and Ron Howard brought in to finish it. More director issues under Kennedy.
rhett7660
macrumors G5
The last three movies consisting of The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker were absolute dog crap... horrible from start to finish and turned me off from Star Wars. The only redeeming movie that has come out was Rogue One and to a much lesser degree was Solo. But those other three movies were absolute crap...
Season one and two of the Mandalorian were good, season three was crap. The Book of Boba Fett was crap... Obi-Wan Kenobi, ditch the whole Princess Leia story line and it was just ok, add in the Princess line and the show turns to crap. Ahsoka, wasn't too bad, actually one of the few shows I really liked. The Acolyte, utter crap.
Andor is the star of this one and I really enjoyed it... a lot.
Season one and two of the Mandalorian were good, season three was crap. The Book of Boba Fett was crap... Obi-Wan Kenobi, ditch the whole Princess Leia story line and it was just ok, add in the Princess line and the show turns to crap. Ahsoka, wasn't too bad, actually one of the few shows I really liked. The Acolyte, utter crap.
Andor is the star of this one and I really enjoyed it... a lot.
would agree with everything other then Ahsoka. That was horrible along with the rest you listed. While I don't like when studios say the fans are the problem when it comes to why people don't like their shows. In this case I do think fans are really the problem. So many get so excited over the dumb stuff. Look at the reactions to baby Yoda in that Mando movie. They could care less about the story and only want the fan service of seeing the characters they like. That goes beyond baby Yoda. Fans have become so dumb they accept slop so long as it has the characters they like in that slop. I think the most perfect example of this that is by and far dumber then anything else out there in this fandom sphere is that whole combo series of The Flash, Supergirl and Green Arrow. I could not stomach any complete series but have watched more then what is good for me on clips and reviews. Now they did not have spectacular numbers but they still had way more then they should and they still have people who openly, without shame I might add, admit to liking the show and what they did with all the characters they brought in. The most moronic writing writing that was all attempts at fan service had people drooling over it. I just don't understand how anyone can lower their standards to accept utter garbage like that. Anyways I have already typed over my quota, your post just got me thinking of all the slop out there.
rhett7660
macrumors G5
There is a lot of slop out there... a lot! Ahsoka, to me wasn't as bad as the others. It was ok... Don't get me wrong I was super excited to see her. 🙂
I haven't seen the latest movie, I am going to wait until it hits Disney+, IF I could go to the theater, I would... but I will wait.
And for the record, I did not like season three of Mando... ugh... and don't get me started on the other crap... outside of Andor...
TheIntruder
macrumors 68020
The issue is that IP is no good if it's not being utilized to keep the franchise going, even if there are no good stories to tell, or at least good attempts to tell them. It's just as much about the business as it is about the art. The cynical would say even more so.
Though it costs more upfront, a Mando movie has more potential to recoup its costs and make money than it does as a TV show, so that's the way it was bent, whether it serves the story or not. At a time when Disney is desperate to have some theatrical success with SW. It's also why the Fett Filler episodes exist at all.
I'm not even remotely invested the the Marvel universe, but it follows the same practice, albeit with better leadership and more success. But even with it, fatigue from the constant churn has set in.
Ultimately, the studios can, and do this only because fans buy into it. How many times has each franchise or character been reboot, or have their origin stories rehashed, oscillating between good and bad attempts?
Casting is underway for the next Bond, and I think they're gong to stay with the "angsty" Bond, at least until people tire of that, and they return to the "cool" Bond, and have that hailed as a return to form.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
Interesting take in this YT
The TL;DR this YTer breaks down who watched what on Star Wars day and NO ONE watched the Sequel trilogy,
The TL;DR this YTer breaks down who watched what on Star Wars day and NO ONE watched the Sequel trilogy,
Studios and the writers they use are lazy and are looking for a quick and easy buck. Lots of stories to tell, and lots of proven stories that are in various book series that could be adapted. Disney opted for literal slop with everything but essentially one series Rogue One and Andor. Rogue One and Andor don't sell toys unfortunately so Disney keeps trying to get something that will. Mando did at the beginning and it seems they are still banking on that.
I have not seen the Mando movie but from every critic and reviewer I have see it is total garbage and may be fighting with The Acolyte for the worst thing Disney has ever done with Star Wars.
Marvel is doing the same thing, though they had a better start. The Marvel. movies in the beginning were not great. What really pulled that all together was the build up towards End Game. It made those horrible Thor movies a little more watchable when you knew they had actually connected those and other movies all to one big storyline. I do believe there is some fatigue but I think it is more they are just putting out garbage stories, the fans would flock back if there was good story telling going on that made sense.
I don't believe studios actually give a damn about the fan base, they are looking at what they think will generate the most the easiest. If they did actually care about the fan base they would see the outrage when they ruin franchise after franchise with the messaging they try and shovel in, making them political, social and trying to sell ideals rather then just focus on telling a good story. The fans and critics seem to have a good eye for this as well, every movie that has been ratioed with their first trailer have all flopped, I can't think of one that people were all hating and then it came out and there was a big reversal of that attitude. Huge example is Rings of Power. They gambled on fans being mindless and just flocking to anything that said Tolkien and Lord of Rings. The viewership is abysmal and the price tag they are paying for each episode has got to be one of the most expensive shows ever made. From the first trailer fans were given all the clues they needed that this was not for people who actually care about stories and consistency and coherence with a bigger fictional world. Hollywood has to learn that they cannot write better than the greats did. Animal Farm is probably the most recent example, completely flipping for Orwell wrote thinking they can get the message across better then he did. A complete joke that does not seem to be ending.
decafjava
macrumors 603
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
Bodhitree
macrumors 68030
That does not surprise me. The sequel trilogy was an opportunity to tell a new generations story, and they completely failed to do anything significant with it.
What does surprise me is that so many people were watching the series, Mandalorian and Andor. About half the audience if his graphs are right.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
Nor me, I've already mentioned my issues with the sequels. What the Yter said (and I've heard it elsewhere), is that Disney wants to erase the sequels. Does that erasure mean they'll want to re-do it, or just scrub it from memory.
uacd
macrumors 68000
I didn't like last 3 movies at all. They killed the vibe and universe. It was weird that they built a plot around the fact that "rebel hero Luke Skywalker" randomly becomes mad old guy and tries to kill his own nephew because "he sensed evil in him", eventually giving Kylo Ren serious psychological trauma and driving him to the dark side (and who is Luke now, a traitor, a mentally unstable old man or Grey Jedi? No wonder he decided to go exile). While it has some deep philosophy to think about ("bad isn't inherently bad" or "white is not always white, and black is not always black"), but whole implementation is wrong: Luke was key protagonist in original trilogy, which had the main fan base, and Disney just goes and says "Ok, time for something new".
"Ahsoka" was something different tho, not as boring and doesn't revolve around Skywalker family drama at all
"Ahsoka" was something different tho, not as boring and doesn't revolve around Skywalker family drama at all
Non-Euclidean
macrumors 6502a
In the beginning Disney (via Marvel and SW) was trying to create as much content as possible to get streaming share. So a ton of projects were greenlighted. If you look at the announcements of what was in development, you can see that a huge portion of it was axed later. Of what they made it appears with SW, they were utilizing the throw **** against the wall and see what sticks technique. As a result we were left with the quality of the writing being a crapshoot.
Marvel is a completely different story. They have 10 times the source material from comic books. Some comics haven't done that well historically as movies (Hulk, Fantastic 4). But Marvel was knocking them out of the park with the origin stories: Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Guardians, Doc Strange, Black Widow. Yeah, some of the sequels weren't as good (Thor Dark World) but most were good or better (Ragnarok, Love & Thunder).
They did one great arc up to Endgame. That had the fortune of being simple to understand. Then they decided to go multiverse, which is a much more complex theme. And as mentioned, it got to a point where it was too interwoven with previous movies or series. They need to back off from that. I also really haven't given a crap about Secret Wars.
I am not going into the Marvel series. There is this pre-Disney period, where Marvel was letting Netflix do a bunch of stuff, most of which I am familiar with. That shifted over and with those Marvel series I think they have mostly been good and great (She-Hulk, Loki, Agent Carter) but some have been drek (Ms. Marvel) or OK (Hawkeye). Yeah, the messaging has been pushed here and there, and I am ok with some of it, I don't get triggered at the word "woke", but I also understand some characters I don't give a crap about and never will (Ms. Marvel).
I think your point about Rings of Power completely misses what Amazon was trying to do. Amazon was trying to get a tier one franchise going. Given the success of the LOTR ($280M/$3B) and Hobbit ($750M/$3B) trilogies, they decided on Tolkien and throw a ton of money at it. I watched S1 and enjoyed it. But I have not watched S2. I would say its probably the scale and complexity of the story that is hurting it, compared to the Middle Earth people have known of since the late 70's animated movies.
Non-Euclidean
macrumors 6502a
Hah, that graphic was so on for me and my wife (60/68). We rewatched Andor recently as a lead in to watching Rogue One and the Original Trilogy. Solo was also watched. But, by far if we are putting on SW content it would be Mando.
The Prequel trilogy hasn't been rewatched since at least 3 years ago.
The Original Trilogy gets watched once a year or so.
The Sequel, probably every 3 years or so.
Certificate of Excellence
macrumors 68020
I'm gen x. I liked Andor alot as well as Rogue one but the consistent rewatch for me was the Mandalorian. Ep1 & 2 were really well done. Season three was cool because even though the writing suffered alot, all the Mando armor, Mandalorians and Mandalor was broken out which was so cool to see. It also helps that my kids are also big Mando fans (especially my middle kiddo) And interestingly, the draw isnt baby yoda. It is the Mandalorians themselves, the loyalty towards each other/the tribe/Mandalor, the culture, the armor, the weaponry. It really was interesting because as under 9 kids, I would think they'd be into the cute green baby yoda but not at all. My oldest likes Boba Fett (although technically hes not Mandalorian) while my middle kiddo love loves Heavy Infantry Pas Vizsla.
Anyways, Andor is another fav of mine but Mando was the big series for my family.
I don't know how Disney can undo the sequel trilogy barf-fest they built other than try to ignore it and work around it. I think Thrawn is a great starting point though.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
I'm watching Revenge of the Sith, and I had noticed one thing
Palpatine appoints Anakin to the council to be the eyes/ears of the republic, that is be is "spy". He gladly accepts it (though he tells him the jedi appoint their masters). But when the council (through Obi Wan) asks Anakin to spy on the Chancellor, he bristles at it.
Palpatine appoints Anakin to the council to be the eyes/ears of the republic, that is be is "spy". He gladly accepts it (though he tells him the jedi appoint their masters). But when the council (through Obi Wan) asks Anakin to spy on the Chancellor, he bristles at it.
TheIntruder
macrumors 68020
Andor was a very well-written series addressing some serious (and timely) themes that just happened to be set in the SW universe. That give at a chance at broader appeal, and the almost complete lack of the mythology, and relatively little tech also helped it to be more approachable and relatable to the uninitiated.
Andor's story in the series, and the film, is easily one of my favorite, if not the favorite part of SW for me, especially given the current state of the franchise.
Luke ending up as an angry hermit, and Han Solo, of all people, effectively meeting his end by being shivved by his and Leia's emo son? I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the meeting when that pitch was made.
It might have seemed like a good idea to some people at time, but to me, that is probably the biggest crime, so to speak, of the sequel trilogy, having those characters meet fates I'd neither imagined, nor ever hoped that they would.
Even if the Skywalker tree had to serve as the bridge to the new generation, it could have been done differently.
I can't, or don't remember what effect Carrie Fisher's death had on the story, but I'd like to think those characters deserved better than that, regardless.
If a SW film is rerun on TV, I'll leave it on, even as background noise. Except for the last trilogy.
From the standpoint of only having watched the films and TV, Ahsoka was ok.
WebHead
macrumors 6502a
Funny you should mention that, I somehow managed to miss the blatant retreading of ANH and as soon as it was pointed out it spoiled it for me.
WebHead
macrumors 6502a
It's probably all down to the phrasing. Palpatine was a master manipulator and probably made it sound more innocuous than it was.
