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Ok, let's reverse this, approach it backwards. Bear with me as I prepare the setup and it's a doozy:

If, during the next few days or next few weeks - anytime, really - Apple releases a firmware update, the so-called still completely unofficial iOS 4.0.1, and it specifically addresses and resolves the issue(s) that I and others are reporting with respect to signal degradation and service loss, issues with holding the phone being the potential cause, skin-on-metal conduct causes vastly more severe signal degradation and service loss or faster loss at least, in fact it fixes every damned thing that all of us are complaining about, and in consideration that every single iPhone 4 is exactly the same (or they damned sure should be), would that - by definition - not constitute the fact that the problems exist on every single iPhone 4 since the firmware is for all of them?

Would Apple release an iOS 4.0.1 update and say "Only install this if you're having problems"?

We all know the iPhone OS 3.1.3 update specifically addressed one issue on one model of iPhone: the lack of accuracy in the battery meter on the iPhone 3GS, but it also had a secondary purpose: it "broke" the ability to Jailbreak those devices running 3.1.3 meaning not just the iPhone 3GS but iPod touchs as well.

When this so-called still completely unofficial "fix" is released, if it specifically addresses the issues we iPhone 4 owners experiencing and it actually resolves them, on every single iPhone 4 that has the demonstrated the issue, that makes it an issue on all of them by default because they are all the same devices.

Hence by definition - since they all would benefit from a firmware update designed for them - the iPhone 4 was defective from the factory. If all of them, after leaving the factory, require the "fix" that means they're all broken, from the gitgo.

So far, Apple has - by way of Steve Jobs and his terse emails - avoided admission that there is anything wrong with the iPhone at all except he didn't - he acknowledged that something is amiss, at least for one owner (samcraig) that confronted him by email and said his phone isn't working when he holds it in his left hand. Jobs' response of "Just avoid holding it in that way" is the "shot heard round the world" one could say because it acknowledges something is very wrong.

If nothing were wrong, Jobs should have replied "No idea what you're talking about" or something equally as terse. But he didn't - he provided a reply that is an absolutely incontrovertible statement of fact that yes, something is amiss, and he knows it, so "Just avoid holding it in that way (and it'll work just fine)" - my addition to the incomplete statement, as I understand his curt reply to have been understood.

So, riddle me this, kids:

If there's nothing wrong, why the implied admission and instruction to alter yourself to make the device work? And if a firmware fix is actually coming, whenever that may be, it'll be designed for each and every iPhone 4 out there, like mine and many others, with no respect to whether someone has made a post complaining about it not functioning as advertised or not.

The "fix" will be for every device running iOS 4.0.1, but it comes so closely on the release of the iPhone 4 which is the device the majority of us are complaining about, that simple deduction would bring one to conclude that, "Houston, we have a problem."

Unless suddenly every single device running iOS 4.0.0 is now having issues, and I know a ton of people with 3GS models are complaining too about very similar but not quite precisely the same issues, then this is something specific to the iPhone 4 because some of the issues are iPhone 4-centric since it has a metal antenna band that comes into contact with our skin
.

Such issues are hardware related, not software - touching the phone causes a malfunction, that's hardware even though my skin is relatively soft. ;)

There's some logic for you. Think about it. I'm going to bed...
 
Philosophers, however, are my kind of folk.

Philosophers often don't grok statistical methods of finding "truth". That's why they got pushed out of much of science and engineering early in the 20th century.

Statistics now runs the world, including the quantum mechanics behind the transistors inside the chips running whatever you are now using to post your counter reply... that capacity management that allocates your tcp/ip traffic though internet... and whatever FDA approved medications you might be taking for your condition...
 
@broadband
Just consider the fact that AT&T works on two different bands, and that antennas from AT&T are not exactly on the same frequencies. There you have your answer. People running their phones on frequency number 1 get a problem, those who don't do not.
Or it could be : those who get REALLY good signal can't notice the problem as there doesn't seem to be any, because even if their signal is lower than usual, it is still very high. Those who have medium signal... well it just dies.

I'm not a technical guy at all but those two explanations do make sense.
 
Steve is right.

"There is no reception issue" means "There is no (hardware) reception issue".
"Stay tuned" means "We will fix (software) reception issues".

iPhone 3GS with iOS 4.0 has the same issue. :cool:

YAY! :D

I think the statement Apple released is true, all phones will normally have SOME reception loss when the antenna is blocked by flesh, BUT I think this is really software related like you say and the hardware is no more at fault than any other cell phone!

Now, have I been hearing problems with the proximity sensor(s)???..... Are there still 2 on the iPhone 4??? Anybody hear about issues with those on iPhone 4? :confused:
 
Steve should emplement a time bomb in the phone for people who have nothing better to do than create data clog with their up you ass texting and social activities! I really don't care what your doing @ the moment and if you do... join at the cranium and open up the networks please!!!! They need to put a cap on bandwidth too. It's slow for us who really need it and the ones who's parents pay the bill, saturate the network with their up your ass actoins.

uuhhhh .... it's a .... uhhhh ....

WTF?! Was that English? Did you stop taking your meds?
 
Philosophers have better things to do than to taunt the bridge builders. We're too busy proving no one knows anything.

Which is why engineers mostly ignore this class of philosophers after watching them drive over the bridges that they've proven we ultimately can't know how to build.


And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why an engineering degree will get you a job and a masters in philosophy will get you a part-time substitute teaching position.

+1 :)
 
It's defective by design simply because putting an antenna into contact with human skin -
...

Antennas just don't work that way, they never have, they never will. Hence:

Defective by design...

You do have some problems .... or you Are just trolling around :rolleyes:
 
How can something that doesn't offer any protection for the front surface or the back surface offer protection for said surfaces since it doesn't offer any protection for said surfaces?

*phew*
By keeping said surfaces from actually touching other surfaces. The bumper has a raised edge. It's a simple and effective design, providing quite a bit of protection with a minimal amount of material.
 
oh my droogies!

there might be light at the end of the tunnel!

short term fix- soft/firmware update and bumper for iphone4
medium/long term- special coating on the stainless steel exterior parts?

FINALLY THE PURISTS WILL HAVE A PURE BLACK OR WHITE MONOLITH iphone4!
 
I didn't buy it, as I've noted in other posts: it was a gift to me and regardless, it'll be returned after the so-called "fix" comes out and gets proper testing.

It's a discussion forum, if I'm not mistaken, hence me taking part in the discussions. Something wrong with that? :)

Ok, now I'm quite sure: you are just trolling around :p
 
4.Watch the bars for at least 3 minutes. Did it constantly show 4 bars? 2? Did it seem to fluctuate? Rock solid 5, never varied.

5.Repeat steps 1 and 2 then hold your phone in your left hand and watch the bars for at least 3 minutes. Did it constantly show 4 bars? 2? 0? Did it seem to fluctuate? declines to 1 bar over 30 seconds, never changes never varies. Experience has shown if I was on a call it would be dropped.

6. Repeat steps 1 and 2 then hold your phone with your thumb and forefinger away from all seams...watch the bars for at least 3 minutes. Did it constantly show 4 bars? 2? 0? Did it seem to fluctuate? 5 bars, no fluctuation, holding on outstretched palm of hand not touching edges.

On my iPhone 4 inside my house I see the SAME amount of signal fluctuation, minute by minute in all 3 situations. Sometimes full sig, sometimes 2 bars, sometimes drops all the way to "Searching".

And I don't, not ever not once.

If I go outside. I get a much more steady 3-5 bars.. regardless of how I'm holding the phone. I get 5 bars if I don't hold normally, but when I do it goes down to 1 or 2 bars.

Anyone else care to try this? So what do you think it tells you?

Honestly? I'm at a loss.. Either I'm a hell of allot less schwetty than other iPhone users, or I have a very magnetic personality.. Not seeing anything like this..

I see the same fluctuations in sig strength inside holding it in my hand or sitting on my desk.. And I get 3-5 bars and no dropped calls outside, regardless of how I hold it..

I know AT&T added more 850mhz gear in my area two years ago.. Maybe that's the difference?

Either that, or we're all being tested for ESP/Telekinetic powers by being told, "Hold it like this and this happens", only some of us make it happen... with our minds! Someone call Dr. Walter Bishop ASAP!
 
Has anyone ever considered that the interpretation of the signal by the OS is so sensitive that a lower signal is actually interpreted as no service and does not let you make a call even if there is still a signal that would allow it?

Quite possible that you hit the nail on the head i was thinking the same thing myself.

Nevertheless i think Steves email sounds best in a Obi Wan Kenobi voice, rather like the line "These are not the droids you are looking for".
 
my friends bought about 10 iphone 4s from the UK, obviously using a different billing address and credit card due to the 2 per person thing. im from the philippines, so the whole grey market thing is known and common here. anyways, to everyone who bought the phone from him, not a single person experienced the reception issue.

maybe the issue is a mix of the design fail of the antenna placement and the overload of new people goin to at&t
 
Explain to me how anyone has done proper troubleshooting/testing of this issue to actually know what the problem is.

Do you think that Apple test products, or just release them willy-nilly into the public to use us as beta testers?? :rolleyes:
 
and just that quickly we go back on topic


I was away from home today and was trying to load a website. The site seemed stalled and I couldnt understand why. Look down at how Im holding the phone and was like "*** im not holding it in the approved way".

switched to approved and the site loaded instantly. lesson to be learned: hold the phone the right way bitches
 
and just that quickly we go back on topic


I was away from home today and was trying to load a website. The site seemed stalled and I couldnt understand why. Look down at how Im holding the phone and was like "*** im not holding it in the approved way".

switched to approved and the site loaded instantly. lesson to be learned: hold the phone the right way bitches

lol. Me too.
 
Apple clearly f'd up with this antenna on the new iPhone. I have had more reception problems since I got my iPhone4 then I ever had with my 3GS. On the other hand, everything else is truly awesome, but what the hell am I supposed to do if I can't make phone calls with this thing? And yeah I can't use the data either when the signal drops, so even as a web device, it's useless when the signal drops!!
 
Do you think that Apple test products, or just release them willy-nilly into the public to use us as beta testers?? :rolleyes:

In this case, they definitely released it willy nilly. Maybe if they would be so fricking protectionist about their new products, then they could ACTUALLY test them in the FIELD rather then testing them under the iron curtain. Of course, under certain cell towers, the new iPhone 4 works great. I'm sure that 1 Infinite Loop probably has plenty of AT&T towers servicing the area to make sure that Steve never has any problems with his iPhone at HQ.... But in the REAL WORLD, that just doesn't work, and in the REAL WORLD people are having REAL problems with this new antenna design. Sorry Apple: FAIL!
 
I can reproduce it in some locations, and not in other locations.

arn

Yes, this would support the notion that the phone, at this time, handles certain frequencies better than others, especially where signal strength is robust.

However, responses such as this one lead me to believe that some iPhone 4s came off the assembly line without reception issues:

....Last night I was at a party and there were 11 i4's. I stood in the same spot and held each of them one at a time. I saw the problem happen on 5 of them and could not make it happen on 6. I used the exact same fingers, same hand, same location - everything else was the same. All 11 owners passed the phones around and we all got the same results.

How can you say we need more data before know this is a real problem. It has been demonstrated time and time again that this is happening.

And before you ask, I have no idea where the cell tower is nor do I give a flying flip. What I do know is I was in the same spot and all I had to do was to hold the phones a certain way.

If only certain batches are prone to reception problems, then perhaps we're looking more toward 'defect,' than 'design flaw.'

Many variables are likely at work here - a software fix will be welcome, nonetheless.
 
Please stop quoting the incompetent "chillin". It allows me to read his uneducated nonsense He clearly has no intention of learning anything or helping anyone. He's a troll. Put him on your ignore list already so we can carry on an INTELLIGENT conversation. :)

Zhe Wiz

I agree. Let’s all ignore him and see whether he will stop existing..


Chill1n: do you see what I did there?​
 
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