Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[Tosser]

But they aren't. In the MBP.

So if Apple are removing FW as a failed/irrelevant format, why is it in the MBP? And I'll bet in the next (overdue) MacPro.*


Sorry, your argument doesn't add up.

They nixed half of the FW connectivity on the MBP (i.e. they nixed the FW 400 port). With the first MBP, they nixed the FW 800 port.
This adds up to Apple trying to nix fw altogether, and not that they have a "plan" to introduce even faster connectivity down the line.
To drive home the consumer point, they not only removed the option of having a matte screen, so we would have to make do with a glossy – no, they added a glossy glass panel ON TOP OF THE GLOSSY SCREEN.

 

[NJPitcher]

I think this is very funny. Let's examine:

1.Apple released new macbooks. They did not take away your old macbooks, they simply allowed you to upgrade to a new version (we ok?)

2.The new version does not have FW (oh noes!) because Apple believes that firewire is being phased out (fact?).

3.Though many products still exist that use firewire, almost all of the NEW PRODUCTS that are being released (video or audio) use USB 2.0.

OK, so what does this mean for people with audio or video equipment that uses FW? It means they can continue to use their existing MBs, which have FW and are already working well. You all bitch about the people who buy Macs for looks, but bitch when you can't upgrade to a product that you don't really need, seeing as you're obviously content with using your FW products and FW MBs?

Seeing as eventually the time will come to upgrade your equipment, the day will come when you will have equipment that uses USB 2.0 (since virtually every new model of whatever uses it). So when that day comes, and you no longer need FW for your equipment, the upgrade to the new MB will not be an issue. For now, you do not need to upgrade. Very, very simple.

 

[ateslik]

removing the port was done for a reason. Do you think their design and R&D team just decided to do it just for fun? just cause they felt like it?

Yes, and yes. It is not necessary. It did not need to be done.

to wit:

Apple CAN add the firewire port at this form factor. They have done it before.

APPLE: BRING BACK FIREWIRE!

 

[LillDrutten]

I think this is very funny. Let's examine:

3.Though many products still exist that use firewire, almost all of the NEW PRODUCTS that are being released (video or audio) use USB 2.0.

Please show me that audio hardware.

 

[cube]

Please show me that audio hardware.

- Please show me the TV tuners with hardware compression
- Please show me the USB/SCSI adapters

 

[kolax]

I think this is very funny. Let's examine:

3.Though many products still exist that use firewire, almost all of the NEW PRODUCTS that are being released (video or audio) use USB 2.0.

USB 2.0 is not sufficient enough for audio equipment. It can only provide up to 16-bit recording, and other issues if using more than just a few channels.

FireWire 400 can provide 24-bit recording, as well as being able to allow multiple input recordings without quality loss.

The professional and high-end consumer market for audio equipment will never eliminate FireWire and just use USB 2.0.

Stop talking crap.

 

[corinhorn]

I think this is very funny. Let's examine:

1.Apple released new macbooks. They did not take away your old macbooks, they simply allowed you to upgrade to a new version (we ok?)

2.The new version does not have FW (oh noes!) because Apple believes that firewire is being phased out (fact?).

3.Though many products still exist that use firewire, almost all of the NEW PRODUCTS that are being released (video or audio) use USB 2.0.

OK, so what does this mean for people with audio or video equipment that uses FW? It means they can continue to use their existing MBs, which have FW and are already working well. You all bitch about the people who buy Macs for looks, but bitch when you can't upgrade to a product that you don't really need, seeing as you're obviously content with using your FW products and FW MBs?

Seeing as eventually the time will come to upgrade your equipment, the day will come when you will have equipment that uses USB 2.0 (since virtually every new model of whatever uses it). So when that day comes, and you no longer need FW for your equipment, the upgrade to the new MB will not be an issue. For now, you do not need to upgrade. Very, very simple.

Some equipment will never be able to be used with USB 2. USB has crappy speeds and inconsistent data rates.

Even if FireWire is dying, Apple should at least wait til it is dead and there is a suitable equivalent or something better.

 

[localoid]

I think this is very funny. Let's examine:

1.Apple released new macbooks. They did not take away your old macbooks, they simply allowed you to upgrade to a new version (we ok?)

2.The new version does not have FW (oh noes!) because Apple believes that firewire is being phased out (fact?).

3.Though many products still exist that use firewire, almost all of the NEW PRODUCTS that are being released (video or audio) use USB 2.0.

OK, so what does this mean for people with audio or video equipment that uses FW? It means they can continue to use their existing MBs, which have FW and are already working well. You all bitch about the people who buy Macs for looks, but bitch when you can't upgrade to a product that you don't really need, seeing as you're obviously content with using your FW products and FW MBs?

Seeing as eventually the time will come to upgrade your equipment, the day will come when you will have equipment that uses USB 2.0 (since virtually every new model of whatever uses it). So when that day comes, and you no longer need FW for your equipment, the upgrade to the new MB will not be an issue. For now, you do not need to upgrade. Very, very simple.

The only "funny" part are the people who feel compelled to write about the subject despite the fact that they lack any real-world knowledge about the world of pro audio/video in which FireWire is the preferred standard.

 

[kamm]

In the latest email response from Steve Jobs, the Apple CEO responds to one customer's complaint that the new MacBook won't support HD camcorders:

Actually, all of the new HD camcorders of the past few years use USB 2

Whether or not you agree with Apple's decision to remove Firewire from its low end laptops, it's clear that Apple is abandoning the feature in their consumer-targeted machines.

Apple helped to develop Firewire in the 1990s and still offers Firewire support in the rest of their Macs at this time, with the notable exception of the new MacBooks.

Article Link

Good ol' Steve, again at war with the facts, as usually...


...wil this man ever learn how badly he's tarnishing his reputation every time he does a 'quick-ignorance-to-lie' like this?

Someone, please tell this loser Jobs that ALL HDV CAMS (you know, majority of the HD camcorder sales in the "past few years" as he put it) COME WITH FW - it's required by the STANDARD.

 

[kamm]

I think this is very funny. Let's examine:

1.Apple released new macbooks. They did not take away your old macbooks, they simply allowed you to upgrade to a new version (we ok?)

2.The new version does not have FW (oh noes!) because Apple believes that firewire is being phased out (fact?).

3.Though many products still exist that use firewire, almost all of the NEW PRODUCTS that are being released (video or audio) use USB 2.0.

Let's stop here already... so in other words you don't have the slightest ****in clue about this subject - but you chose to post your ignorant stuff, loud and bold... why?

 

[Tosser]

I think this is very funny. Let's examine:

Yes, lets.

1.Apple released new macbooks. They did not take away your old macbooks, they simply allowed you to upgrade to a new version (we ok?)

Yes, "we okay".

2.The new version does not have FW (oh noes!) because Apple believes that firewire is being phased out (fact?).

Actually, THEY are the ones doing the phasing-out.

3.Though many products still exist that use firewire, almost all of the NEW PRODUCTS that are being released (video or audio) use USB 2.0.

I think you're confusing lowest common denominator (i.e. "consumer") stuff with professional equipment.

OK, so what does this mean for people with audio or video equipment that uses FW? It means they can continue to use their existing MBs, which have FW and are already working well. You all bitch about the people who buy Macs for looks, but bitch when you can't upgrade to a product that you don't really need, seeing as you're obviously content with using your FW products and FW MBs?

Pro equipment tend to outlast the computers - not necessarily "life wise", but compared to how often the computer is exchanged for a newer one.

Seeing as eventually the time will come to upgrade your equipment, the day will come when you will have equipment that uses USB 2.0 (since virtually every new model of whatever uses it).

As I thought. You think that "audio equipment" as a whole is priced sort of the same as an iphone, don't you? And that our entire set up is swapped as often as people buy new phones.

So when that day comes, and you no longer need FW for your equipment, the upgrade to the new MB will not be an issue. For now, you do not need to upgrade. Very, very simple.

Yes. If an apologetic fanboy were to decide, things would indeed be "very, very simple". Unfortunately, that's not how the real world turns.
Just as an example, go find me an audio recorder with the same functionality, the same size (or smaller), the same weight (or lower), and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, as good preamps as the ones in my Sound Devices 722, only with USB. Yes, it has to be portable.

You can't? Who would've figured!?

Seriously, you don't think for a moment, that people with pro audio gear will swap their entire gear to inferiour gear, simply because Apple are idjits, do you? That we would go BACK in quality, back in functionality, redo our work routines (to longer ones) and so on, in order to stay with Apple? Sorry, but I simply cannot afford such stupidity, nor am I willing to suddenly compromise on quality at the whim of Apple.

 

[cube]

- Please show me the USB/SCSI adapters

OK, I found a similar slow converter (Ultra SCSI). I don't want to spend $100 again for no increase in performance.

 

[Evangelion]

That's the whole problem with a big part of the Apple customer base. They think looks are more important than USABILITY, and that's how Apple manages to sell so many bad designs.

Small size is part of usability in a portable computer.

But there are loads of things that I do with my MB that DO require FW.

Get it?

I do get it. But fact remains that there are tons of stuff that you can do with a MacBook that does not involve FW. Do you need FireWire to listen to music? To browse the net? To write email? To to manage your photos? To play games? To edit documents? To write code?

Get it?

FYI. Cams recording on flash and using USB for transfer are toys only good for home made adult entertainment.

That's a load of crap and you know it. Besides, if you want professional hi-end cameras, then why are you looking at the cheapest consumer-laptops Apple sells, as opposed to their professional laptops?

All the prosumer cams (flash or tape) are with FW.

Tape has FW, but flash has FW AND USB. And if you are looking at pro-cameras, why not look at MacBook PRO as well?

If you go to pro cams or high end the new digital cinema cams (or more like their mags) connect with FW only.

So you want to use pro, hi-end cameras with Apple's low-end consumer-laptop, and then you whine when it doesn't really work?

Trust me there won't be a single pro deck with USB not even USB3.

You keep on talking about pro-hardware, but when we start talking about laptops, you suddenly insist on using those pro-cameras with Apple's consumer-hardware? If you are so serious about your cameras, why aren't you using them with Apple's pro-laptops?

 

[cube]

Small size is part of usability in a portable computer.

Then why don't we all carry iPhones instead of laptops?

 

[Belly-laughs]

<snips>
when you can't upgrade to a product that you don't really need, seeing as you're obviously content with using your FW products and FW MBs?

For now, you do not need to upgrade. Very, very simple.
</snips>

Like I assume you only ever copy cute office docs and a little music over the wire, you assume everyone in need of FireWire is on quite new Intel hardware! Myself and quite e few others I know are still using PowerBooks or early Intel, time for an update, no? Besides, FireWire is not just about Audio/Video, it´s so much better (than USB) for anything involving high amounts of data, quickly, and so it will remain.

 

[corinhorn]

Then why don't we all carry iPhones instead of laptops?

Because the iPhone isn't a computer.

 

[cube]

And I'm still using my 8 year old Cube because Apple offers no reasonable replacement.

 

[cube]

Because the iPhone isn't a computer.

You don't know what a computer is.

 

[localoid]

... You keep on talking about pro-hardware, but when we start talking about laptops, you suddenly insist on using those pro-cameras with Apple's consumer-hardware? If you are so serious about your cameras, why aren't you using them with Apple's pro-laptops?

FireWire isn't just about video. In the pro audio world the new MacBook Pros aren't a proven choice at this point in time. Why? Because Apple has apparently used the same crappy FireWire chip in the latest model that exhibited severe problems earlier this year:

http://www.gearspace.com/board/music-computers/163468-what-firewire-chipset-new-macbooks-pro.html

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7216967

http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=6390

http://forums.presonus.com/showthread.php?t=4054

http://logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=97362

http://www.bj-brown.com/blog/?p=15

http://logic-users.org/forums/LUG/thread/103336

Who in their right mind would seriously consider buying a MBP that might not work 100% with their "pro" equipment?

 

[PMR]

The cable on Apple USB mice is long enough to work comfortable even when using the left USB port on aa 17" MBP. I don't know what design flaw you are talking about Making up issues where there aren't any, I guess...

The standard mouse that comes with the imac doesn't have the length to be used on a mac laptop.

 

[corinhorn]

You don't know what a computer is.

Fine, according to Webster the damn iPhone is a computer. That being said, I'm not going to argue the difference between an iPhone and a desktop/notebook computer.

 

[Evangelion]

Yes, and yes. It is not necessary. It did not need to be done.

to wit:

Apple CAN add the firewire port at this form factor. They have done it before.

APPLE: BRING BACK FIREWIRE!

Where would Apple add it? Next to the other ports? That woule mean making the battery smaller. Would you accept less battery-life in exchange of FW? I bet that most user value battery-life more than they value FW. On the other side of the machine? So they should make the motherboard a lot more complicated and more expensive to manufacture?

Adding FW isn't as simple as simply slapping a port on the side of the machine.

Of course I would like a machine with FW as opposed to one without FW, other things being equal. But in this case those other things would _not_ be equal. Apple obviously felt that adding FW would mean compromising on other things, and those other things would make the computer worse than it is without FW.

In other words: Had they added FW, the laptop would have 30 minutes less battery-life (my guesstimate) and it would be more expensive. Had they putted in on the other side, the machine would be 50-100 bucks more expensive as it is right now. In either case, we would have people complaining.

Apple has obviously seen the writing on the wall as far as FW is concerned. They looked at MacBook's target-market, and looked at potential use for FW in that market. And by far, the biggest user of FW is videocameras. And it's obvious that USB is quickly taking over that bastion of FireWire.

FW does have lots of hi-end uses. Which is why their hi-end laptop still supports FW. But in consumer space, FW is quickly being replaced by USB. That is a fact. No amount of huffing and puffing is going to change that fact. The first year or so is going to be somewhat painful, but pretty soon, the consumer spare is going to be 100% USB.

 

[ateslik]

Replying to myself, but good lord: LOOK AT ALL THE CHOICE WE USED TO HAVE. What happened?

 

[cube]

Where would Apple add it? Next to the other ports? That woule mean making the battery smaller. Would you accept less battery-life in exchange of FW? I bet that most user value battery-life more than they value FW. On the other side of the machine? So they should make the motherboard a lot more complicated and more expensive to manufacture?

Adding FW isn't as simple as simply slapping a port on the side of the machine.

Of course I would like a machine with FW as opposed to one without FW, other things being equal. But in this case those other things would _not_ be equal. Apple obviously felt that adding FW would mean compromising on other things, and those other things would make the computer worse than it is without FW.

In other words: Had they added FW, the laptop would have 30 minutes less battery-life (my guesstimate) and it would be more expensive. Had they putted in on the other side, the machine would be 50-100 bucks more expensive as it is right now. In either case, we would have people complaining.

Apple has obviously seen the writing on the wall as far as FW is concerned. They looked at MacBook's target-market, and looked at potential use for FW in that market. And by far, the biggest user of FW is videocameras. And it's obvious that USB is quickly taking over that bastion of FireWire.

FW does have lots of hi-end uses. Which is why their hi-end laptop still supports FW. But in consumer space, FW is quickly being replaced by USB. That is a fact. No amount of huffing and puffing is going to change that fact. The first year or so is going to be somewhat painful, but pretty soon, the consumer spare is going to be 100% USB.

It's not a sin to have ports in the back, at least outside of the Apple religion.

 

[Evangelion]

Then why don't we all carry iPhones instead of laptops?

Because smartphone is not a replacement for a computer (or vice versa)?

Congratulations for the dumbest question so far.