Steve Jobs Once Considered Killing Apple's Pro Products

[AidenShaw]

why? i plan on doing just that.

(though i can also see your idea of share and my idea of share are two different things.. i guess you're saying i can't plug two laptops into one thunderbolt device and use it equally between the two at the same time?)

Exactly.

I think that "share" means to use at the same time - as in "concurrently".

Using something on one system for a while, then unplugging it and later using it on another system doesn't meet my definition of "share" - and probably not most people's definition.

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It's not really more expensive than other fibre channel adaptors, and you will need one, regardless of if you own the new Mac Pro or not.

I'm very familiar with Fibre Channel (and should be getting a new 16 Gbps FC array, FC switch and a bunch of FC HBAs by Friday).

I'm also quite sure that the other post wasn't planning on spending the $90K that I just spent to share data - it sounded like they planned to put multiple hosts into the T-Bolt daisy-chain.

And by "new Mac Pro" I assume that you mean "the future Mac Pro" - since it's vaporware at this point. We have no firm idea of what Apple will eventually release.

 

[subsonix]

I'm very familiar with Fibre Channel (and should be getting a new 16 Gbps FC array, FC switch and a bunch of FC HBAs by Friday).

Ok so then you know that it doesn't really cost more.

And by "new Mac Pro" I assume that you mean "the future Mac Pro" - since it's vaporware at this point.

Nice try on the daisy chain bit, I wont bite. But yes, I (and you) referred to the up coming Mac Pro with Thunderbolt.

 

[gooddna]

Phil Schiller said "Can't innovate any more my ass!"
I assume this was for late Steve Jobs?

 

[AidenShaw]

Ok so then you know that it doesn't really cost more.

Except that prowlmedia said:

The new MP is going to be incredible in a studio 1 main TB2 store that everyone can share at fantastic speeds. No more need to swap machines or copy files around. Especially as you can have 100m TB cables running to your server room.​

Note that she said "TB2 store", and "TB cables" - not "SAN" and "FC cables".

She's quite confused about what T-Bolt can do....

 

[flat five]

Exactly.

I think that "share" means to use at the same time - as in "concurrently".

Using something on one system for a while, then unplugging it and later using it on another system doesn't meet my definition of "share" - and probably not most people's definition.

how are people going to connect to networks? ethernet?
(as in i really don't know.. i don't work in those types of environment)

as an example (and yes it could very well be a minority example- but at least it's a real world scenario which isn't being exaggerated) i use the drives in my macpro for my laptop as well.. firewire then reboot->target disk for some of the bigger moves or backups then doing doing a firewire->connect as for the type of sharing outlined in the system prefs.. i'd say i connect my laptop to my desktop at least three times in a typical week in order to swap data.. 'sharing' an external via thunderbolt will make that process much easier.. (though, in all reality, i think sharing via 802.11ac and airdrop etc will be what i end up doing most of the time then thunderbolting the drives for the larger data moves (maybe anything over say 8-10GB?..) a lot better than my current mix of emailing myself, drop boxing, flash drives, & fire wire.. external storage and fast wifi will actually help me out some and make data moving operations easier

 

[jm001]

I wonder how they do that, because in the best case scenario, Macs use the same hardware components as PCs. And in most cases, Macs have much weaker processors and graphic cards than PCs.

You just contradicted yourself. You're saying they use the same hardware components as PCs yet you then say they have much weaker processors and graphic cards. The Mac Pros are well built machines hence the fewer breakdowns they have compared to other "Pro-like" PCs. The Mac Pro uses the Xeon CPU how is that a "much weaker processor"? As for graphic cards you can swap them with more powerful ones like the Geforce GTX Titan although the Radeon 5770's are quite capable cards themselves.

 

[iSayuSay]

You just contradicted yourself. You're saying they use the same hardware components as PCs yet you then say they have much weaker processors and graphic cards. The Mac Pros are well built machines hence the fewer breakdowns they have compared to other "Pro-like" PCs. The Mac Pro uses the Xeon CPU how is that a "much weaker processor"? As for graphic cards you can swap them with more powerful ones like the Geforce GTX Titan although the Radeon 5770's are quite capable cards themselves.

So I suppose you're talking about current MacPro?

Just because the CPU called Xeon doesn't mean it's a beasty godly processor. Current MacPro uses Westmere Xeon, and as a single quad CPU, it has problem catching up even with Ivy Bridge Core i5 found on iMac.

To make matters worse. You also left out with SATA II, USB 2.0, no Thunderbolt, and lousy PC1066 RAM. No matter how well it was built, it's slow as molasses. All for $2500, or more. Hmm, seriously?

As for the graphic card, why would I need to pay $2500 for current base MP and still get Radeon 5770? What's with giving the GTX680 or Radeon 7950? Why do I need the extra effort and money to swap it after all that much money I've spent?

 

[Frisco]

Filthy dog! Doesn't matter we will all soon be dead anyway.

 

[AidenShaw]

I wonder how they do that, because in the best case scenario, Macs use the same hardware components as PCs. And in most cases, Macs have much weaker processors and graphic cards than PCs. ...

You just contradicted yourself. You're saying they use the same hardware components as PCs yet you then say they have much weaker processors and graphic cards.

Not really a contradiction - although Apples "can" use the same components as PCs - often Apples have older or slower versions of those components.

If you want a 2010 PC - buy a 2013 Mac Pro. The real PC vendors have moved on.

 

[pastimage]

Filthy dog! Doesn't matter we will all soon be dead anyway.

Love this quote.

I just have to chime in here after having read some of the most annoying posts I have read in a while. This was like talking to my 3 and 4 year old for many of them. I knock windonts a lot too but I will tell you I have one that is well over a decade old and still runs like a top! Sure it is slower and cannot handle my incoming connection but it still can run large programs like adobe cs5, photoshop, Illustrator and an couple of others. I can run large program and video if I want. Heck I can do almost anything I want to on it that I do on my iMac. Some things I can do better and faster, others not so much. This means that a person does not have to upgrade every year or two unless the CHOOSE to. I have a 2008 imac and MB (white) if it was not for apple fixing the problems I have had I would have gone back to windows. The reason I left was I was tired of the spam ware, malware, spyware, Trojans etc. It sure as he^^ was not because it was the greatest thing out there. However I love my apple products. But I have never had to replace a HD like I had to with the iMac. I never had to send back my HP like I did my MB to get a new one. I have never had to replace or buy a new keyboard or replace 5 mice like I have with the apple products. So dont go knocking my old faithful! And never ever buy a dell, they really suck! ( and I could go on for a while about all of this)

Yep you can BYO hack with top of the line stuff and put an apple OS in it and it will run as fast as what is sold in the stores hell it may run faster and it WILL be cheaper to the same cost depending on things.

I love the comment about the build it like a wind tunnel why have we never thought of this before. No, I really do like that because it is a great statement. However it is not built that way. It is built more like an old fashioned metal burn can with holes in the bottom and air going out the top. A tunnel would have it lay down and I for one think that is a better idea but put better fans in them. There are fans that turn on and run faster as the mechanism gets hotter so they could do that too. However I do have issues with the new design. What about all that dust and yuck that gets into one now? They think it will not get into this one? Is it in a glass case? Mine will not be and I worry that this will be a problem. Some areas of the world have more dust and yuck, I am in one of them. What about for us? I will have to clean this think constantly and the blades of the fan too and it will be time consuming! Like I really need that.

Apple still has to come down in price for this thing and all other pro stuff. Looking at one right now I will drop $5724.69 for a pro set like I need it, with a warranty, and that is with my discount. I can get 5 pretty blasted good computers for that price and they will all do what I need them to do. But I want to buy one that I will have for another decade. I cannot say I can do that with a pro but I hope I can. The only reason I will go apple again is I HATE the crap sold in windows and the malware every problem. And we all know where to get the software pretty danged cheap if we choose to go that route too, so dont tell me about all the added software that I will need because I need added software for a mac too, it is the nature of the beast. Bottom line is apple is out for the money and every one else is too, where you have one pull there is a push.
What I really want to know is when will they really be here? I want to see one work and I want to see what all the extras are that I have to have to make it do what I want it to do. How much more is it going to cost me for external hard drives as back up and such. Sure it is only so big but a dvd drive is needed and what else? who knows so I will wait and wait, but if Apple doesnt drop the price, this PRO will go buy something else and I know many others that will be doing the same, because we have to upgrade every so often to stay on top of our game and beat the competition because we are about the money too.

But this is just my .02 Cents, thank you for allowing me to rant.

 

[kenetic]

I'll stay with the old model for now. I need my accessories to be inside the machine and not under the table.

 

[flat five]

However I do have issues with the new design. What about all that dust and yuck that gets into one now? They think it will not get into this one? Is it in a glass case? Mine will not be and I worry that this will be a problem. Some areas of the world have more dust and yuck, I am in one of them. What about for us? I will have to clean this think constantly and the blades of the fan too and it will be time consuming! Like I really need that.

a little copypaste from another thread here:

a fun little sunday project for tmmr:

items needed
• horizontal fan
• ladder
• bag of sawdust

(though you may want to consider means to clean the dust on your ceiling and the ring of dust that will settle around it )

 

[pastimage]

That would be fun...

Come by and see my ceiling fans, heck any of my fans. No dust, I have a fair amount of clutter on and around my desk but...

 

[flat five]

That would be fun...

well, maybe fun to watch.. because someone is going to be getting blasted with a face full of sawdust

wind direction -vs- gravity aside... i think the little mac will collect less dust simply based on there being a lot less room inside and less horizontal surfaces for dust to settle on.. but that's just me

 

[ZackaryVS]

Apple was never really good for the pro market anyways because of the larger variety of software and choice with a regular (Windows) computer. In my opinion, Apple is only good for consumer devices like iPods, iPads, and laptops. People that are pros know what they are getting and it makes more sense to get a PC or build your own because you can get a way faster computer for a lot cheaper and maybe even nicer looking with extra functionality. I built my own gaming rig and it cost me $1200 and is faster compared to even a $2500 customized iMac. So really Windows is for power users, Mac is for simplicity (and for the dummies, i.e. computer illiterates) and syncing the iDevices with iTunes, etc.

 

[flat five]

Apple was never really good for the pro market anyways because of the larger variety of software and choice with a regular (Windows) computer. In my opinion, Apple is only good for consumer devices like iPods, iPads, and laptops. People that are pros know what they are getting and it makes more sense to get a PC or build your own because you can get a way faster computer for a lot cheaper and maybe even nicer looking with extra functionality. I built my own gaming rig and it cost me $1200 and is faster compared to even a $2500 customized iMac. So really Windows is for power users, Mac is for simplicity (and for the dummies, i.e. computer illiterates) and syncing the iDevices with iTunes, etc.

lol. I like your style. go on a mac-centric forum and insinuate most people that will be reading your comment are dummies.
good one
#

 

[malman89]

Steve would have never allowed... wait

This could not be upped or posted enough. Perfect.

 

[R3k]

Just cause you're a Pro and use "Pro" equipment doesn't mean what you make is any good.

You and everyone else bashing 'Pro's'

Look, as has been said already in this thread, Pro = Professional = You earn a living doing what you do with that system. It's clear cut, think a pro athlete.

So if you're making a living from it, don't you thing in most cases the work you are doing is good enough?

 

[Gasu E.]

Yes, sometimes the option is to kill off a product segment. Apple's done that many times--it's what the analysts refer to as cannibalization.

"Cannibalization" is when you introduce a product that competes with one of your own existing products.

 

[jm001]

So I suppose you're talking about current MacPro?

Just because the CPU called Xeon doesn't mean it's a beasty godly processor. Current MacPro uses Westmere Xeon, and as a single quad CPU, it has problem catching up even with Ivy Bridge Core i5 found on iMac.

To make matters worse. You also left out with SATA II, USB 2.0, no Thunderbolt, and lousy PC1066 RAM. No matter how well it was built, it's slow as molasses. All for $2500, or more. Hmm, seriously?

As for the graphic card, why would I need to pay $2500 for current base MP and still get Radeon 5770? What's with giving the GTX680 or Radeon 7950? Why do I need the extra effort and money to swap it after all that much money I've spent?

If you're talking abiut the current Mac Pro then also include the high end model not just the base model. The higher end model is 12 core (2 six core CPUs). You can also upgrade the pro models yourself by adding PCIe cards. They are still workhorses of the Mac line.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Or perhaps it's an example of a user who sees the value of internal expansion, without the need for external, dust bunny-gathering houses.

I would call it 'modular design'. The cylindrical shape is not something appealing to server racks, but I'm sure someone will come up with an idea on how to make good use of rack-space with the new Mac Pro. Plus, the Cylindrical shape is necessary best cooling performance.

If you keep your environment clean, there's no reason for the existence of dust bunnies.

And Thunderbold is something I have expected for years, and it's finally here. Price may be on the higher side now, but it should eventually go down.

 

[iSayuSay]

If you're talking abiut the current Mac Pro then also include the high end model not just the base model. The higher end model is 12 core (2 six core CPUs). You can also upgrade the pro models yourself by adding PCIe cards. They are still workhorses of the Mac line.

Fine, still the dual hexcore model costs $3800, it uses the cheapest hexcore Xeon available.

It uses 5770 so I have to fork out $600 for GTX 680 Mac edition. Radeon 5870 upgrade is just as lousy as it is these days.
At least I need third party 512GB SSD on my own so add another $300 into the bill
I need USB 3.0 expansion card, and maybe eSATA, kaching .. it's $150

Already forked out almost $5000 for the CPU alone. Yet I'm still stuck with SATA II, slow RAM and no Thunderbolt. Can't do anything about them.

Current MacPro is fine, but terribly outdated, overpriced and left out for too long and all of a sudden they came up with locked down trashcan MacPro. Can't imagine any worse than that.

 

[jav6454]

[... snip ...]

Yet people still think that the 13" MacBook Pro is a "Pro" product. Laughable concept.

Apple has simply diluted "Pro" into the consumer section.

 

[kustardking]

It's missing the mark on what it supposed to be. In order to use it you have to add a truck load of other devices. So you are actually buying 1/3 of a computer.

I have never liked using screwdrivers to get to my drives and parts, and have always been willing to trade the convenience of a monolith for the flexibility of "scattered" parts. Up until two years ago, I was using Areca RAID cards with an external enclosure. For the yearly hardware upgrade, it meant moving only the HBA from one machine to another. I didn't keep any internal storage beyond the OS drive. For the past two years, I've been using two Pegasus R4s on different Macbook Pros. I like the flexibility of swapping out the short-term CPU stuff without having to risk anything on the long-term storage side. I also have 10GbE cards attached in OWC Helios enclosures so I can share out the drives to my other macs.

So though I might have a truckload of devices, I also have the flexibility I want. I'm looking forward to the Mac Pro being more like just another component, because that other 2/3 for me was just wasted space.

 

[barkmonster]

I'd say the ONLY reason to buy a Mac at all is because there is soe software that only runs on Macs, like Logic, Final Cut and so on. If they kill of that what is the point of a Mac. Just and expensive way to run a web browser. I'd buy a Google Chrome book.

That's also the only reason to buy a PC. If all someone does with a computer is browse the web, they don't need anything more than a basic, OS-irrelevant netbook. If they do something creative, it's either Mac or Windows depending on the software in question. The Mac has always been a standard for DTP and audio work because it was so far ahead of the competition and even now offers very mature, system level colour management and transparent MIDI and audio via the IAC bus built into the OS.