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Then you don't care a lot for cross browser compatibility.

As long as the required framesets are in place, then I can develop efficiently. This varies per project, and I haven't yet had a problem. Although, we have had a few CSS3 border issues, because browsers have their own implementation.
 
You, sir, do not know what you're talking about, and you're confusing and mixing up many things that are not related to each other at all. And I am getting tired of that ridiculous discussion.
I could say the same.
<unprovable opinion snip>

Objective-C is an unimportant niche language that is ONLY used by Apple and thus has zero relevance anywhere else in the computer industry. Binding developers to that language binds them to Apple, and that is the ONLY reason why Mr Jobs now tries to force the developers to use that antique, 30 years old and totally out-dated and irrelevant language.
You do realize that Obj-C is backwards compatible with modern, industry standard C, right? And that plain C is 38 years old?

Android is quickly gaining market share and Apple will lose many developers to that platform - a platform that is open and does not restrict developers in any way. In two years from now, you will see a mysterious, magical change in Apple's attitude towards multi-platform development tools: And that is when Apple is forced to accept ported Android software in their dying iTunes AppStore.
It's inevitable that some developers will prefer Android. That said, people have been saying "Our device will kill the iPhone" for nearly three years. Has it happened yet despite it's shortcomings? Obviously not.

You're talking about going the way of the Floppy disc? Well, His Steveness decided to repeat the very same mistakes with which he almost killed Apple in the 1980s and why Apple's board of directors fired him. He lost the desktop war against Microsoft because he refused to open the Mac platform to Third Parties. He's making that same mistake now with the iPhone OS and he will lose the market to Android.
This is just appalling. Jobs resigned (albeit forced) in 1985. Windows was not released until 1987 and Mac market share was strong until about 1994-1995. Then Apple started going down hill. Note that SJ came back in 1996 and made Apple, then at risk of bankruptcy, one of the most profitable companies in the world. Even then, SJ did not lose the desktop market. NeXT wasn't ever a realistic player. I won't even start on OpenStep.

Open platforms always win.
Yes. That is why Flash has begun its slow death. Like it or not, a whole lot of websites are creating alternate interfaces in HTML5 because of Flash's incompatibility and many flaws. What is really the problem with the very open HTML5 anyway? All browsers save IE (IE is catching up. Preview available.) already sufficiently support HTML5 as it exists now to be functional. Aside from that, a large fraction of websites use both Flash as default and HTML5 when Flash is not possible, on an iPhone for instance.
 
Android is quickly gaining market share and Apple will lose many developers to that platform - a platform that is open and does not restrict developers in any way. In two years from now, you will see a mysterious, magical change in Apple's attitude towards multi-platform development tools: And that is when Apple is forced to accept ported Android software in their dying iTunes AppStore.

Google can't even get cross-device development working in their own language. Who in the world would want to spread that to other platforms.

Google's rollout of Android into incompatible devices has been nothing short of stupid.

So Android developers will essentially face the same issue all mobile developers faced before the iPhone and that is making multiple versions of the same thing for a disparate audience because there is not one size fits all version of Android because there is no hardware control or integration.

On the other hand you can easily hit 10s and 10s of millions of users using the same devices with expected results and expected returns.

Programming for Android versus programming for iPhone OS is the difference between writing a complex game for the PC and creating one for a console.
 
Flash game addicts - it's true, nutin for you.

Steve will probably get what he wants from the top tier of developers, He is looking to skim some cream here not buy expired milk.
 
Steve will probably get what he wants from the top tier of developers, He is looking to skim some cream here not buy expired milk.

The top tier of developers don't understand how Apple works when it comes to games:

John Carmack has a long history working with Apple on gaming products, not all of it positive.

"My relationship with Apple has been long standing, but it's a rollercoaster ride," he told Kotaku. "I'll be invited up on stage for a keynote one month and then I'll say something they don't like and I can be blacklisted for six months."

Carmack thinks the run-ins with Apple are because the company, the highest people in the company, look down on games. But the popularity of gaming on the iPhone has forced Apple to try and come to grips with that, even if they're not happy about it.

"At the highest level of Apple, in their heart of hearts," Carmack said, "they're not proud of the iPhone being a game machine, they wish it was something else."

http://kotaku.com/5397908/carmack-working-with-apple-is-a-rollercoaster-ride
 

Racist?!?!
Don't be silly... even an Aussie could live in some low-tech European location. (your unique interpretation of "live in" is telling though).

As for 'cheap and tacky' -- i was simply speaking in terms with which that particular poster seemed most fluent.

Yes mate - it is racist. Try and colour it anyway you want. You are casting aspesions about 1. A nation by linking in low tech (wow thats original). What does where a person live got to do with an understanding or not understanding an argument (or presenting one) unless in your mind you already write off people living in low tech nations as knowing nothing. That my friend is racist. And if not at least treating a whole nation in a condescending manner.

And your judging a person - not his argument. That is what is cheap and tacky.
 
I could say the same.
You do realize that Obj-C is backwards compatible with modern, industry standard C, right? And that plain C is 38 years old?

I don't exactly know what you mean by backwards compatibility in this context but what is your point regarding who uses Obj-C? Isn't it true that Obj-C is a dead language outside of Apple?
 
I don't exactly know what you mean by backwards compatibility in this context but what is your point regarding who uses Obj-C? Isn't it true that Obj-C is a dead language outside of Apple?

Yes, very few people use objective C outside of apple platforms. It's a shame, really - I programmed C++ for years - millions of lines of it. I learned Objective C only a few years ago, but now I greatly prefer it.
 
Yes, very few people use objective C outside of apple platforms. It's a shame, really - I programmed C++ for years - millions of lines of it. I learned Objective C only a few years ago, but now I greatly prefer it.

Why?
 

Things like runtime binding and categories, among other things. The fact that it uses message passing instead of calling methods. Even the syntax of message passing (by name instead of argument position). It's just nicer and more flexible.
 
Things like runtime binding and categories, among other things. The fact that it uses message passing instead of calling methods. Even the syntax of message passing (by name instead of argument position). It's just nicer and more flexible.

OK. IMHO I think the syntax is utter crap but I do like the features. Ruby has the same features, though. On the other hand, Ruby is rather slow but the syntax is much nicer than Obj-C.
 
I don't exactly know what you mean by backwards compatibility in this context but what is your point regarding who uses Obj-C? Isn't it true that Obj-C is a dead language outside of Apple?

C# is practically dead outside Windows...

There are a few Mono and GNUStep projects out there. But the quality is crap and decent projects are as rare as naturally found flawless diamonds.
 
So.... that means you care? I think you meant "I could care less."
"I could care less" implies one cares. "I couldn't care less" means that one doesn't care at all. One is completely w/o caring. If, for example, on a scale from 1 to 5 (1 being the least amount of caring and 5 being the most amount of caring) one cared a 3 that means there is room for one to care less. If one cared a 1 there is no more room for one to care less therefore one couldn't care less.

If someone says "I could care less" they most likely meant to say "I couldn't care less" just like if someone says "for all intensive purposes" they most likely meant "for all intents and purposes."


Lethal
 
Yes mate - it is racist. Try and colour it anyway you want. You are casting aspesions about 1. A nation by linking in low tech (wow thats original). What does where a person live got to do with an understanding or not understanding an argument (or presenting one) unless in your mind you already write off people living in low tech nations as knowing nothing. That my friend is racist. And if not at least treating a whole nation in a condescending manner.

And your judging a person - not his argument. That is what is cheap and tacky.

Well, clearly you're no English major. But, keep on inventing your own word definitions... it's almost comical to read your explanations.

[and if you actually read what that person said, you'll see his "argument" was full of the stuff you seem to be talking about... so your whole reasoning is lost right there.]
 
FYI: All of those "HTML5 is the standard". Wrong. HTML5 is a proposed standard that has missed many dates with the W3C for standardization. Last I saw it was proposed to be in Draft stage in 2012.

Lifting shadows of a dream once broken... ;)

Anyway. Here are my 5 cents: Flash is evil. But Apple is equally evil and very protective and propriety.
I strongly support this analyses:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...-a-response-to-steve-jobs-letter-on-flash.ars
Jobs letter is hypocrite, imho.
 
Lifting shadows of a dream once broken... ;)

Anyway. Here are my 5 cents: Flash is evil. But Apple is equally evil and very protective and propriety.
I strongly support this analyses:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...-a-response-to-steve-jobs-letter-on-flash.ars
Jobs letter is hypocrite, imho.

Finally, an honest, realistic, and knowledgeable stance on Steve's open letter to those who drink his kool-aid. And it won't get any media traction, despite this guy being totally right.

I highly doubt Jon Gruber is going to cover that post unless he incorrectly disagrees with it. He's basically just a bullhorn for Steve Jobs now.
 
1. HTML5 is not even completely specified yet.

2. There are ZERO browsers on the market that support HTML5.

3. HTML5 -might- be a future technology, but currently NOBODY uses it and that makes it vaporware.

There's only one browser that has anything resembling HTML 5.0 support: Google Chrome 4.x and later. And it does work: you need it to run Google Wave.
 
Finally, an honest, realistic, and knowledgeable stance on Steve's open letter to those who drink his kool-aid. And it won't get any media traction, despite this guy being totally right.
You may want to read some of the 266 comments to that article, for some hints as to where traction was lost. Pluswhich, that article itself in no way praises the virtues of Flash or anything remotely along those lines... so it might be helpful if you'd summarize what the author was "totally right" about (lest readers here misinterpret your thrust).

And BTW, does tossing out the word "kool-aid" somehow magically give one the upper hand in discussions around here?

:)

Apparently even some former Flash developers don't find it all so distasteful:
 
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