Steve Jobs Posts 'Thoughts on Flash' Open Letter

[jajohns8]

This is exactly what I expected him to say.

He wants to emphasize the tech aspect vs. financial.

I think Flash is awesome and a great tool.

Apple doesnt like anyone having control or a monopoly on web tech.

That's understandable, but until HTML5 is matured enough to TRULY rival Flash, Adobe fills a void in the dev. space.

HTML5 is just not there yet.

You can design things now that look much better in half the time with Flash vs. HTML5.

Now, in 2 years when everyone is "claiming" HTML5 will be able to truly rival Flash, now that's another story....

 

[supercaliber]

I disagree with Jobs

I own an iPad, yes i knew it didn't support flash when i bought it. That does not mean I wasn't disappointed when the rubber met the road and I found out how many sites are not supported with the iPad. There were A LOT. I will list them all if you bashers want to go to war.

Here is my take:

Jobs points 1,2,3,4,6 are complete, mostly nerd-based or pure propaganda BS. They are meaningless issues to me and my family. MEANINGLESS.

1. Open - Who cares, i don't know what it means and I don't care, i have been on open or unopened computers for the past 25 years of my life, never knowing or caring about the difference.

2. Full web:

Jobs argument is there are many, many sites that work on the iPad. Well i have many that don't, its just a BS sales pitch. Pure BS.

3. Reliability, security and performance:

Like my apple never crashes, and I suppose that every flash site should be avoided. Give me a break. Again just FUD. As for performance, give me a nice switch called 'No Flash'

4. Battery life - Again give me a switch called 'No flash', 90% of the time I don't need 10 hours anyway. SOOO MUCH BS. Its like the government deciding that they know whats good for me and will force me into compliance with their world view. Makes me sick.

5. Touch compatibility - The only legitimate issue on the list. But guess WHAT!!!! Figure out how to support roll over!!!! Its not Flash's fault that touch is limited in its features. Guess What again!!!! I like the feature-rich mouse and cursor. Are you saying the iPad will never support similar features. Guess what again!!! If i try and use flash that requires roll over, i will learn it doesn't work very well on the Ipad and stop doing it. Guess what again!!! Most flash sites I frequent don't care about roll over, and neither do I!!!

6. Third party run amok - FUD to the extreme. Yeah third parties mucking up the experience is less than ideal. Oh but wait, that has been our lives for 25 years, so it must not be that bad. Give me a break. Only the purity of Apple governed software development is fit for my consumption????? Apple, the great filter of our time. If Apple has Christened Thee then Thou are HOLY!!!!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! I am starting to think that my Apple Dollars have only fed the ego of the Holy one. I would not be surprised if all Apple products start being shipped with an image of the almighty enlightened CEO etched on the back of every device, etched on my ear buds, etched in the glass of my iPhone, etched in a hologram inside of every white apple.

Before I ever make a decision in life, I will ask Siri, wwsjd, what would steve jobs do?????

Can I get a gold statue of Jobs placed in my house above my fireplace??????

Reading that tripe made me sick to my stomach.

 

[Sai Zelion]

Re-Think

It's simple math...

Android + flash = happy users

iPhone, iPad - flash + ? = ?? users

I have purchased 28 Mac's, 4 iPads, 12 iPhone's for family and business...

While Mr. Jobs letter makes legitimate points, as users, we simply need flash or a replacement for flash. Not letters... I am tired of seeing "This device will not play"...

It's simple math...

Android + flash = happy users

iPhone, iPad - flash + ? = ?? users

I have purchased 28 Mac's, 4 iPads, 12 iPhone's for family and business...

While Mr. Jobs letter makes legitimate points, as users, we simply need flash or a replacement for flash. Not letters... I am tired of seeing "This device will not play"...

Actually your analysis incorrect. I'm have purchased plenty of macs, 2 iPads, and iphones as well. While it is an inconvenience that flash is not used on any iProducts from Apple, I am not disappointed in the slightest way because I UNDERSTAND why. As a result, I enjoy the stability of the OS, lengthy battery life, lack of security issue possibilities presented by using flash and much more.

You are certainly right, we need a solution and that's what has been in progress with HTML 5 development. At some point, there must be a CUT OFF, or a stand must be made. With the iPhone/iPod/iPad success in app sales (Apple dominating 90% of the app market), the stand must be made RIGHT NOW.

In the mean time, Steve Jobs offers communication regarding the situation (albeit, late lol). So, just hang tight until HTML-5 takes full flight. You've invested in a lot of iProducts, if you're so tired of seeing "this device will not play", then stop buying the iProducts until HTML-5 is in full bloom or until your websites of interest has converted over their video to H.264.

 

[badmac78]

When did they drop the DVD?

They aren't doing blue-ray

The ipad and mba, server mini have no dvd

There was a question as to why the MBA doesn't have one, and Apple (SJ) response was that "the future is download, not dvd"

 

[aristobrat]

Because I can kill in a debate any ignorant or simply dumb Apple iSheep who dares to say Flash is dead:
- Every other mobile device and PCs are compatible with Flash and I've haven't heard about major and repeated issues

Exactly which mobile device is currently shipping with Flash?

 

[leetleo]

I'm convinced anything (and yes, this means animations) that can be done with ActionScript and Flash can be done with HTML5/Javascript/CSS.

This is just not true. Logistically its possible, but the performance is abysmal (absolutely worse than Flash) and VERY inconsistent from browser to browser, especially if you're processing alpha compositing (a staple of modern multimedia). Even using the same browser and the same operating system, you see much wider variations in performance across varying hardware profiles compared to Flash. HTML5 has great potential, but it's just NOT ready.

This scenario would be akin to Toyota dropping support for combustion engine technology in place of hydrogen power cells. Yes, it's a cleaner renewable fuel, but the technology is just not mature enough to be a realistic replacement for petroleum in the foreseeable future. We can all agree to work towards something better, but it makes no sense to leave Flash out to dry while it's still the best, despite its flaws.

 

[John.B]

I don't see how you read an "everyone" into my comments at all. Just the opposite (and thus I agree) that only some people want access to Flash content on their iDevices. My feedback is that if the OPTION was available (not forbidden by Apple) those select individuals that are OK with burning their batteries faster, taking the security risks, crashing Safari "4 times a day" and so on could at least choose to do so on their own devices. All the other people that support "Flash is Dead", "Kill Adobe", etc could choose not to take the OPTION and keep their own devices "as is" (free of the capability of playing Flash).

This could work just like any other app download: those that want a particular app downloads it. And those that don't, don't. I'd love to be able to download the "optimized for Apple iDevice" Flash player for my own circumstances. But I don't want to force that player on all of my fellow iDevice users. Wouldn't it make sense if my fellow iDevice users who take the other side of this argument could agree not to force THEIR view of how things should be upon those people like me?

"We have routinely asked Adobe to show us Flash performing well on a mobile device, any mobile device, for a few years now. We have never seen it."

 

[Small White Car]

What would make sense to me is for Apple to allow Flash onto the iPlatforms in a way that gives the consumer control of whether it can be active, perhaps in an on-demand or white-list-url fashion...look at "Click to Flash" for the Mac platform.

That would be pointless.

Apple wants to keep control to themselves instead of giving it to Adobe. Doing this would hand control over just as effectively as simply enabling Flash on every device from the start.

So what's the point of doing it this way? It's no different than just adding Flash entirely.

 

[Eidorian]

They aren't doing blue-ray

The ipad and mba, server mini have no dvd

There was a question as to why the MBA doesn't have one, and Apple (SJ) response was that "the future is download, not dvd"

I guess the future is better tomorrow?

I'm still on 768/384 kbps. I'll sure be downloading those 1080p videos from iTunes in real time. Not that I would buy anything from iTunes or media in general.

 

[Man-Droid]

Sorry, but he is an idiot.

This decision is clearly business-driven.

I love how Steve outlines a number of very well stated points but you still say it's only business driven. That makes no sense. Why throw out an open letter at all then?

 

[rjohnstone]

Yes H.264 is closed, but it's not a web standard as of yet. If Apple is indeed behind each web standard being open, then they should support an open codec for becoming the standard.

The problem is though, even if H.264 is not open, it's so common, and hardware makers already have mobile chips decoding H.264, which don't exist for other codecs right now, it makes sense to use H.264 for the time being. Theora is a competitor yes, but the quality is not comparable right now. It uses more CPU to decode and more space. Until someone can come up with an actual open rival to H.264, we'll probably have H.264 all around.

But other than that, nothing Apple proposes as standard is closed. HTML5, Webkit etc. Apple's own iPhone OS is NOT a web standard. It's an OS. So that being closed has nothing to do with "Open Web".

Everyone seems to forget one major thing.
HTML5 is not even an official standard yet.
H.264 not a standard and the licensing around it is still costly.

 

[Medinarem]

Uhhh

The only ONLY I MEAN ONLY reason apple blocks flash is because no one will ever buy any apps ever. Jobs cares about money and that's the bottom line. If flash was available everyone will go to flashgamesforIphone.com and never have a reason to buy Apps.

You people swear Jobs cares about You. He cares about Money.

 

[iBug2]

This is exactly what I expected him to say.

He wants to emphasize the tech aspect vs. financial.

I think Flash is awesome and a great tool.

Apple doesnt like anyone having control or a monopoly on web tech.

That's understandable, but until HTML5 is matured enough to TRULY rival Flash, Adobe fills a void in the dev. space.

HTML5 is just not there yet.

You can design things now that look much better in half the time with Flash vs. HTML5.

Now, in 2 years when everyone is "claiming" HTML5 will be able to truly rival Flash, now that's another story....

Even if HTML5 is not a full rival to flash at the moment, and it never will be probably, the last thing I want to have on my iPhone is a flash website that takes 1 minute to load and then drives me crazy to navigate.
Even on desktop flash sites do annoy me, but on a mobile? No. Every website that uses flash has to make a simpler website for mobile phones imho to make things easier for everyone. So even if flash ran on my iPhone, I'd prefer to use a non-flash version of the same site, if available. It's just faster. And nobody is looking for animation gimmicks when browsing web on a mini sized screen.

 

[baryon]

I 100% agree with Jobs in what he says here: Flash is not meant for the iPhone or iPad in ANY way, the iPhone is a totally different platform.

I still love Flash games on my computer though, but it's obvious that there is no way I could play them on the iPhone: no keyboard, no mouse.

I would love it if Adobe allowed their Flash authoring software to make HTML5 files just as easily as you make Flash files, because at the moment, what makes Flash a big deal is how good the authoring software is, while on the other side you have HTML5 that you can go and edit with Notepad, well, have fun with that if you can! So if there was something similar to Flash CS4 that could make HTML5 stuff, then Adobe would happily abandon Flash since they're building on their Flash experience to make HTML5 content.

 

[*LTD*]

Please believe me, This is the truth... I went to this site "we choose the moon .org as you said...

My brand new Macbook pro got very, very hot then the flash plugin failed asking me if I wanted to report it...

hmmm

From what I've just experienced:

Until you hit "launch", it averages between 45-60% CPU load. If you change views it spikes to 85-90% momentarily until the view stabilizes. When you hit "launch", all the video elements become active and it's 80-90% for a while until Apollo clears the Earth, then it averages between 55-60%. Changing views at this point ramps up the CPU momentarily to 90%+.

Unless you start playing around with the Flash elements and initiating a lot of activity on the screen, the CPU idles at around 60%. Go through the stages (under "Mission Tracker") and you'll see 80%+ CPU load until the video stops for each stage.

This is on an early 08 Macbook Pro 15-inch, 4GB RAM, all updates installed, running SL. Luckily, its fans didn't ramp up that much. It seems to be able to handle a steady 50%-60% CPU load without going crazy, for a while at least. After about 15 minutes of idling on the site, the fans kicked in only a little bit, but not too audibly. I *expect* that after a few more minutes of 60% idling I'd start to really notice the fans.

I had nothing else open except Pages, Mail, and iCal (and Activity Monitor.)

 

[iBug2]

Everyone seems to forget one major thing.
HTML5 is not even an official standard yet.
H.264 not a standard and the licensing around it is still costly.

Yes, but HTML5 will be the standard eventually. You can't have web without HTML. About H.264, I don't want it to become the standard, simply for people using Linux which will be left behind if that happens. But then we need an open codec as good as H.264. Theora is not it.

 

[John.B]

"For example, although Mac OS X has been shipping for almost 10 years now, Adobe just adopted it fully (Cocoa) two weeks ago when they shipped CS5. Adobe was the last major third party developer to fully adopt Mac OS X."

Surprised he chose to point out Adobe's adoption of Cocoa in its huge creative suite of products when Apple themselves have yet to implement it in the Final Cut Pro suite.

This is a fair point.

The other app that could really use 64-bit Cocoa IMO is Logic. The sooner the better...

 

[FoxyKaye]

I'm going to ignore Jobs' "black is white, night is day, Apple is open" logic in this letter and focus on the outcome instead: A major industry leader is telling a long-standing company that it's pseudo-standard for Web content delivery is dying and deserves to be replaced by a modern, real standard.

Time was when computer companies went lock-step in line with what I call pseudo-standards like Flash. I could only wish that Jobs would post another letter called "Thoughts on Office" to follow this up.

 

[rjohnstone]

Exactly which mobile device is currently shipping with Flash?

I assume you meant Flash support.
You can start by heading over to HTC's website for a short list.
Then head over to Nokia and Motorola.

 

[leetleo]

That's where apps come in.

HTML 5 is not replacing Flash on the iPhone/iPad.

HTML 5 and app-store apps are replacing Flash.

iPhone apps don't replace flash functionality on the web. Obviously a native App is superior, but you can't run a native App as an extension of your web site. That'd be great though... Maybe OS 6.0.

 

[5.4.3.2.1]

PCs are dead

Seems the Reality Distortion Field is fully operational once more

You guys are missing one of the most important things in the letter:

"Flash was created during the PC era – for PCs and mice. ... But the mobile era is about low power devices, touch interfaces and open web standards – all areas where Flash falls short."

Looks like Apple are moving away from PCs altogether. WWDC 2010 anyone?

 

[JediZenMaster]

This isn't about corporate financial struggle; this isn't about corporate power brokering; this isn't about security; this isn't about battery performance. This IS ABOUT giving the consumers what they want AND letting consumers make their own informed decisions.

Steve just needs to get over himself and stop trying to be the Czar of the hardware and Internet.

It is about Corporate power because it's not your company and you had the choice to buy a product that fit your needs. Flash would be a major source of battery consumption and if the iphone did support flash then people would BLAME APPLE NOT ADOBE for this.

Giving people what they want? You want flash but there are lots of people who don't. So while you may want FLASH. Apple doesn't and they have a right to build products their way. Now if you want a device that supports flash. Create your own company and your own devices.

Apple just isn't going to roll over and do what you want them to.

 

[deviant]

themoonblahblah.org was running my CPU at 50%.Thats how much CPU a 35mb/s mkv remuxes "eat" on my mini LOL.
anyway,i dun care about flash,and about html5 too ,sincerally. flash on iphone ? i bet 70% of that people just need smth like uporndotcom on their phones xD

 

[kironin]

I was just coming here to see if anyone else had seen that.

"New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind"

Smack!

Double Smack!

 

[Bachi85]

Why is someone an idiot because they have a different POV than yours?

It's not about his position.

It's about seeing this thing religious... if he says Amen to the words of Steve Jobs he has a serious problem.