Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[xbjllb]

I like my computers to work.

So do we. We'd like them to do something instead of just sit there stupidly when we put a Blu-ray in them. Like play the damn things.

Especially one we just burned.

Problem is apparently Steve-o and Apple-o don't like having to share profits with Sony via licensing fees.

Greed. Will always get you in the end.

 

[mark28]

What's wrong with blu ray?

Prices of Blu Ray movies are the same as DVD nowadays and movies look pretty amazing. Movies shouldn't be watched on DVD's, it's ugly.

Even on a lower resolution of 1680 x 1050 it looks alot better.

 

[Hellhammer]

With regards to Blu-ray, sources indicate that Jobs still considers the technology to be a "bag of hurt", with DRM restrictions and licensing issues that make the format unattractive. According to the report, Jobs noted during a recent internal meeting that he is "ashamed" that Apple's name is associated with the Blu-ray format through its position as a member of the Blu-ray Disc Association's board of directors, a role it has held since 2005.

https://www.macrumors.com/2011/01/0...april-xserve-controversy-and-jobs-on-blu-ray/

 

[NickZac]

I can only imagine that most users do not and have no desire to use Blu Ray. A successful company like Apple would presumably do research on this and if a strong market interest, they would have done it differently. I don't watch movies on my MBP at all, but I agree that not having Blu Ray on such a high end computer does seem somewhat odd.

 

[Vanilla]

Frankly with AppleTV streaming video from your iTunes library or rented video from the Apple Cloud, services such as Box.net, Dropbox and Google Apps for personal content, the iPhone App store and now the forthcoming desktop App store due Jan 6th, iTunes music downloads, Pandora, iPhoto online services, Flickr, me.com etc. I not only see no need for Blu-Ray I foresee the current macbook air as the model for all laptops in the very near future, i.e. the complete removal of the CD/DVD/Blu-Ray drive from all machines as standard, relegated to an optional accessory.

Vanilla

 

[Reddkryten]

Relegated to an optional accessory.

But that's the thing, there is no bluray playback option. I'm pretty sure all of us would be satisfied by an external bluray rw drive if we could also watch movies using it.

 

[swagi]

Frankly with AppleTV streaming video from your iTunes library or rented video from the Apple Cloud, services such as Box.net, Dropbox and Google Apps for personal content, the iPhone App store and now the forthcoming desktop App store due Jan 6th, iTunes music downloads, Pandora, iPhoto online services, Flickr, me.com etc. I not only see no need for Blu-Ray I foresee the current macbook air as the model for all laptops in the very near future, i.e. the complete removal of the CD/DVD/Blu-Ray drive from all machines as standard, relegated to an optional accessory.

Vanilla

I hear you, and really - using Connect360, my XBox and Zune marketplace really is good. Especially Zune's ability to adjust the stream to your bandwidth while watching (google it, if you don't know - pretty impressive MS patent).

And I tell you - the minute Zune marketplace has competitive HD pricing for 1080p content (which they offer), they win. But currently a HD rental equals about 6€ on Zune marketplace. That's a damn joke.

That's why I'd rather use a Blu-Ray in a dedicated player, as it is a lot cheaper and offers more. I'm still deciding whether to use a dedicated BR-player or rather a Dell Zino with Blu equipped. If there'd be a Mac mini with Blu, I definitely would get it for ma TV.

Same applies to iTunes. And Apple TV is a joke. I don't want to be locked in Apple's ecosystem. I'd rather handbrake a DVD and send it to Connect360 than use iTunes for the video.

 

[mark28]

Frankly with AppleTV streaming video from your iTunes library or rented video from the Apple Cloud, services such as Box.net, Dropbox and Google Apps for personal content, the iPhone App store and now the forthcoming desktop App store due Jan 6th, iTunes music downloads, Pandora, iPhoto online services, Flickr, me.com etc. I not only see no need for Blu-Ray I foresee the current macbook air as the model for all laptops in the very near future, i.e. the complete removal of the CD/DVD/Blu-Ray drive from all machines as standard, relegated to an optional accessory.

Vanilla

You're going to stream 50 gb from iTunes for 1 movie? I'm not going to download 50 gb anyway for just 1 movie.

 

[yg17]

Frankly with AppleTV streaming video from your iTunes library or rented video from the Apple Cloud, services such as Box.net, Dropbox and Google Apps for personal content, the iPhone App store and now the forthcoming desktop App store due Jan 6th, iTunes music downloads, Pandora, iPhoto online services, Flickr, me.com etc. I not only see no need for Blu-Ray I foresee the current macbook air as the model for all laptops in the very near future, i.e. the complete removal of the CD/DVD/Blu-Ray drive from all machines as standard, relegated to an optional accessory.

Vanilla

Right, and what happens when your internet connection at home goes out (when you're more likely to want to watch a movie) or you're on an airplane (where you might have a 1 or 2 mbps connection with extremely high latency shared with other passengers, if you're lucky)?

This is why the concept of cloud computing will never take off, because as ubiquitous as internet connections are, they're not everywhere, and when you do have one, it's not going to be 100% reliable.

 

[Bishope1999]

Apple still has a lot of catching up to do in regards to selling or renting movies when compared to Blu-ray:

Though it is half as old as Netflix, Apple's iTunes rental service is believed to be about one-tenth the size of the competing rental service, one analyst has projected.

Analyst Brian Marshall with Gleacher & Company said Wednesday he believes Apple sells about 475,000 rentals daily through iTunes, compared to the 5.1 million daily rentals seen by Netflix. iTunes TV and movie sales began in 2005, while Netflix first launched in 1999.

Marshall estimates that the iTunes rental business for TV shows and movies is larger than sales of purchases. He estimates that rentals generate more than $60 million in revenue per quarter, while purchases account for about $50 million. For comparison, Netflix reported revenue of about $550 million Sept. 2010.

Last week, Apple revealed that its streaming-centric $99 Apple TV had already sold 1 million units in its first three months of availability. It also said that iTunes users are renting and purchasing over 400,000 TV episodes and more than 150,000 movies per day.

Marshall believes that roughly 90 percent of iTunes TV viewings are 99-cent rentals, while 75 percent of movie viewings are rentals with an average selling price of $2.99. Applying those estimates to Apple's provided numbers results in a daily total of 475,000 rentals.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._service_believed_10_the_size_of_netflix.html

If Apple can grow its rental business at the same rate as Netflix, Marshall believes annual TV and movie rental revenue from iTunes could exceed $1 billion within 5 years. Assuming Apple keeps about 30 percent of that, it would be another $300 million per year for Apple's bottom line.

Right now, he estimates that Apple earns $110 million in revenue per quarter from rentals. About $70.7 million of that would come from movies, while $39.2 million would be TV episodes.

The new Apple TV has represented a shift for the company's iTunes business, as it pushed studios to allow 99 cent rentals of TV shows, rather than costlier permanent purchases. But some studios have been reluctant to participate, calling Apple's 99-cent model too inexpensive.

compared to:

With the critical fourth quarter well underway, the latest industry statistics show consumer spending on home entertainment to be running about 4% behind last year.

Numbers released today by DEG: The Digital Entertainment Group peg consumer spending through Sept. 30 to be at $12.6 billion.

DVD and Blu-ray Disc purchases, according to DEG estimates based on studio and retail reports, slipped 8% in the first three quarters of the year to $6.5 billion.
Disc rentals, according to Rentrak Corp.’s Home Video Essentials, dropped 4.4% to $4.4 billion.
Only digital distribution posted gains, rising 23% to an estimated $1.7 billion. In the latest quarter, according to DEG, digital distribution accounted for 13.5% of total consumer spending on home entertainment, a higher percentage than in any previous quarter.

Despite the overall spending decline, studio executives point to several encouraging signs for a business that has been hammered by the lingering recession as well as a maturing market for packaged media.

Consumer purchases of Blu-ray Disc software reached $1 billion by Sept. 30, an 80% increase from the first three quarters of 2009. Video-on-demand (VOD) rose 20% to $1.2 billion, while electronic sellthrough — mostly movies sold through Apple iTunes — soared 37% to $432 million.

“While we continue to encounter tough market conditions, there are a number of positive trends emerging, particularly in some of the industry’s key growth areas,” said DEG president Ron Sanders, also president of Warner Home Video. “Blu-ray continues to show strong growth in every category, new release packaged media sellthrough is up, and digital distribution is gaining significant momentum as we move into the fourth quarter.”

Executives are guardedly optimistic about the fourth quarter. Through Sept. 30, consumer purchases of new theatrical releases were up 4% — and the fourth quarter is traditionally the time when most of the big summer movies are released on disc.

And yet the total box office value of movies coming to disc in October, November and December is down from last year. Overall, combined box office earnings for theatrical features coming to disc in the fourth quarter is flat at $4.1 billion, but when accounting for the additional revenue from 3D theatrical showings, the adjusted year-over-year comparison is down 3%.
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/research/deg-home-entertainment-spending-down-4-20923

So in 5 years Apple will accomplish what Blu-ray did last year and by that point Blu-ray would have risen to far greater revenues, although it might peek at that point and probably won't catch up to the $20 Billion industry DVD use to be. Already Blu-ray is on track to doing about $2 billion this year and it will continue to grow. It really shouldn't be ignored because it is making money. Also remember that for digital distribution, sales for standard definition and high definition aren't divided as they are for DVD and Blu-ray. So if one was to do an apples to apples comparison of Blu-ray (HD) to Digital Distribution (HD), the revenues will be even lower for the digital version.

The last weekly revenue reported, although it isn't the norm as it was record breaking.

Even on it's weaker weeks, Blu-ray can sell in two weeks what it takes Apple to sell in one quater with movies. I think apple should learn to co-exists with Blu-ray until digital distribution matures. Because even looking back to the CD's vs Itunes, Itunes were never able to cover the loss of CD's because of the piracy. Album sales plummeted and still Itunes album sales don't outsell their CD counterparts.

 

[Reddkryten]

So in 5 years Apple will accomplish what Blu-ray did last year

But but but, bluray is dead! The mafia killed it with a bag of hurt!

 

[chillywilly]

... Already Blu-ray is on track to doing about $2 billion this year and it will continue to grow. It really shouldn't be ignored because it is making money.

The problem with the above statement is that Apple doesn't see a way to make money from Blu-ray, which is most likely the #1 reason they don't offer a Blu-ray drive on any of their Macs.

Software is not distributed on Blu-ray, so it's not a requirement for Apple. Playing DVD movies on a Mac is still and option because it was there before the iTunes store went video.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see official full BD support on a Mac, but the reality of it is that it may not happen officially from Apple.

And your major point about the Blu-ray marketplace I agree with. It's making money and growing.

 

[linux2mac]

So do we. We'd like them to do something instead of just sit there stupidly when we put a Blu-ray in them. Like play the damn things.

Especially one we just burned.

Problem is apparently Steve-o and Apple-o don't like having to share profits with Sony via licensing fees.

Greed. Will always get you in the end.

So why not just sell your 8 and 12 Core Mac Pros? I am sure you will find a buyer rather quickly and be able to recoup most of your money to minimize your investment loss (Macs do hold their value longer than Dells and other PC's. Gee I wonder why that is - perhaps they truly are better machines.). Then purchase a Windows PC and have the Blu Ray player you desire. Then you will have what you want. Or is it that Windows is not reliable enough for your work like a Mac?

 

[Porco]

Apple still has a lot of catching up to do in regards to selling or renting movies when compared to Blu-ray:

[....]

Top post for a newbie, kudos Bishope1999!! Powerfully argued. People seem to be ignoring reality a bit when it comes to the facts of the market and what is actually selling. Along with the time it takes for a critical mass to be reached for accessibility to fast speeds and high caps, it is that which will determine the pace at which physical media dies, not whether Steve Jobs reportedly feels ashamed to have Apple associated with the BDA.

And Blu-ray is doing very nicely, and looks like it will for some time to come.

 

[Nomadski]

Doesn't anybody (including Steve) own a 1080p HD camcorder?

Cant anyone (including Steve) see the benefit in having a blu ray burner to actually make a shareable disc of your holidays in HD for yourself, your family or friends?

What do people (including Steve) do with their HD camcorder movies after they've edited it in iMovie? Stick it on 25 dvd's? Send 16GBs in a magical email? Stream it to Apple Tv which wont accept 1080p?

I think Apple remain extremely short sighted and selfish when it comes to full HD content, in all aspects.

 

[KnightWRX]

Top post for a newbie, kudos Bishope1999!! Powerfully argued. People seem to be ignoring reality a bit when it comes to the facts of the market and what is actually selling.

Yeah, his point has been made dozens of times already in the course of this thread, the numbers posted, etc.. Yet "The Apple people" always seem to just wait a few pages and then come right back with "Blu-ray is dead/dying!".

There's just no way to compete with bad faith.

 

[alent1234]

Doesn't anybody (including Steve) own a 1080p HD camcorder?

Cant anyone (including Steve) see the benefit in having a blu ray burner to actually make a shareable disc of your holidays in HD for yourself, your family or friends?

What do people (including Steve) do with their HD camcorder movies after they've edited it in iMovie? Stick it on 25 dvd's? Send 16GBs in a magical email? Stream it to Apple Tv which wont accept 1080p?

I think Apple remain extremely short sighted and selfish when it comes to full HD content, in all aspects.

with cell phones recording video in HD these days, no reason to buy an HD camcorder

don't know about everyone else but most of my videos are 3 minutes or less and i don't have time to make them into larger compilations. i'll email them or upload to facebook

 

[Porco]

So why not just sell your 8 and 12 Core Mac Pros? I am sure you will find a buyer rather quickly and be able to recoup most of your money to minimize your investment loss (Macs do hold their value longer than Dells and other PC's. Gee I wonder why that is - perhaps they truly are better machines.). Then purchase a Windows PC and have the Blu Ray player you desire. Then you will have what you want. Or is it that Windows is not reliable enough for your work like a Mac?

Yeah, the thing is it's actually allowed to love OS X and macs and also love Blu-ray movies. Even though Steve Jobs might wish it wasn't, and is trying to make that happen. The whole point is we love both the mac and Blu-ray, and there isn't really any good reasons why the two things can't be integrated.

 

[linux2mac]

Yeah, the thing is it's actually allowed to love OS X and macs and also love Blu-ray movies. Even though Steve Jobs might wish it wasn't, and is trying to make that happen. The whole point is we love both the mac and Blu-ray, and there isn't really any good reasons why the two things can't be integrated.

Again, I am not opposed to SJ putting BD in Macs. I am not opposed to BD either. I own two BD players and watch BD movies when I have them. I will not buy one BD though after I invested in a 400 plus DVD collection over the past decade, especially since the writing is on the wall about the longevity of BD and optical drives.

 

[Bishope1999]

The problem with the above statement is that Apple doesn't see a way to make money from Blu-ray, which is most likely the #1 reason they don't offer a Blu-ray drive on any of their Macs.

Software is not distributed on Blu-ray, so it's not a requirement for Apple. Playing DVD movies on a Mac is still and option because it was there before the iTunes store went video.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see official full BD support on a Mac, but the reality of it is that it may not happen officially from Apple.

And your major point about the Blu-ray marketplace I agree with. It's making money and growing.

I totally agree with you on that as to the reason why Blu-ray isn't on any Mac computers. They have a business to run and the only way they will make money on movies is that if people stopped buying physical media and would go straight to downloads, that way the Apple would make a profit from it. Probably the same reason why Microsoft is saying a Blu-ray drive is unnecessary for their Xbox players, if not it would seem as their competition has a better gaming console for it and hoping people will download movies instead of buying discs.

As I see it, as Blu-ray players and burners become cheaper, there will not be so much need for DVD players or burners and BD will replace them as DVD burners replaced CD burners, there won't be much need for them. It will be interesting to see if apple will completely remove optical disc drive support over hard disk drives or will they continue to include DVD drives and just ignore Blu-ray.

Top post for a newbie, kudos Bishope1999!! Powerfully argued. People seem to be ignoring reality a bit when it comes to the facts of the market and what is actually selling. Along with the time it takes for a critical mass to be reached for accessibility to fast speeds and high caps, it is that which will determine the pace at which physical media dies, not whether Steve Jobs reportedly feels ashamed to have Apple associated with the BDA.

And Blu-ray is doing very nicely, and looks like it will for some time to come.

Thank you

 

[yg17]

Again, I am not opposed to SJ putting BD in Macs. I am not opposed to BD either. I own two BD players and watch BD movies when I have them. I will not buy one BD though after I invested in a 400 plus DVD collection over the past decade, especially since the writing is on the wall about the longevity of BD and optical drives.

I am sick and tired of hearing this argument from people. Your BD player will play DVDs. You do not have to re-purchase all of your DVD movies in BD format. From now on, buy new movies in BD and keep your old DVDs. This isn't like VHS to DVD where there was no backwards compatability.

 

[KnightWRX]

especially since the writing is on the wall about the longevity of BD and optical drives.

I retract my previous statement Porco, they didn't even wait for it to be buried 3 pages deep before ignoring all the facts Bishope1999 posted.

 

[janstett]

View attachment 266194

http://www.9to5mac.com/45693/steve-...c-MacAllDay+(9+to+5+Mac+-+Apple+Intelligence)

LOL, the guy who strong-arms the recording and movie industry cartels is afraid of the "Blu-Ray Mafia". Suuuuuuuure.

 

[German]

I'd rather have Blu-ray quality on a Blu-ray disc than "reasonable" quality any day of the week.

Did you tried it or why that comment?
http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/archives/328

I am not against Blu-Rays.
Just wanted to show that it is possible to get really good quality in smaller file size.

 

[janstett]

Again, I am not opposed to SJ putting BD in Macs. I am not opposed to BD either. I own two BD players and watch BD movies when I have them. I will not buy one BD though after I invested in a 400 plus DVD collection over the past decade, especially since the writing is on the wall about the longevity of BD and optical drives.

Logic would dictate that you'd be snapping them up as fast as you can get them.

If you're looking forward to a world with no physical media, it's a world of DRM where licenses cannot be transferred (i.e. no selling any movie you "own") and licenses can be revoked at any time (so much for ownership).

For movie fans, it's a horror foreshadowed by the original Divx pay-per-view DVDs back in 1997 -- pay-per-view, permanent locking of a title to a player, and license revocation at the whim of the provider/studio. At least with DVD and Blu-Ray you own the movie and can do whatever you want with it. You can watch it in a 24/7 loop for 5 years straight -- no additional fees. You can sell it if you tire of the movie. You can lend it to a friend or relative for them to watch. You can watch out-of-print movies when the studio pulls them from the market (Disney is notorious for this and it's one of the reasons they supported Divx -- they wanted the titles to only be playable during approved windows). None of this will be possible in the DRM-laden download world.