Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[wonderspark]

You seem like a smart guy so I'm sure you understand that Jobs doesn't have all the control here. The labels do. And they haven't wanted higher quality files because they still believed that physical disks were the way to go. This change could have less to do with Steve and Apple and more with the labels figuring out that they were wrong. Digital can be highly viable. Plus Apple may have some leverage they can use over them. Like the end of a contract. Perhaps if the labels want to keep their pricing control they will have to up the quality they allow in the stores.

This is assuming those articles, most of which are still in the realm of rumors, are correct.

As for video, Jobs never said that there wasn't a place for high quality digital video and I'm sure he's working on it or monitoring those that are. Jobs seems to believe that once a proper digital format is available and the studios buy into it, physical disks will quickly slide. I know myself and a lot of friends are waiting for the day we can get something even 80% as good as a blu-ray disk through a download. But even without that we tend to still buy our movies as downloads. 720p is fine for many flicks. We only buy on actual blu-rays the big big titles. Like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings etc. I myself have perhaps six blu-ray titles, but my digital collection has an easy 100 movies that I actually bought (not the freebies that came with those or other disks)



I suspect if they did investigate they would drop it rather quickly on the grounds that you can use the itunes stores on more than just Macs and use other stores on your mac.

So it isn't like they are forcing you to only buy from them. You can go to Amazon, etc if you like

And even if they did force the itunes stores to separate, it doesn't mean that it would have any effect on whether there is Blu-ray drives or playback support in Macs




Or they just stop putting optical drives in their computers at all.

Remember there is no legal mandate to put some kind of optical drive in your systems. So Apple still has a choice in the matter.




Sorry but you are the one that is wrong. Macbooks are clearly for the common man. They do a Back to School sale every year to those 'common' college students, sending thousands of 13 and 15 inch computers out into the world. Flash not included on the ipad, that's straight up cause the common folks don't spend all their time on Flash intensive sites or won't be bothered by having to download an app instead. Only the power geeks complain about being told how to do something.

And the Apple Tax is a myth. You and everyone else spouting off that one are doing it based on component prices only but you forget about patent licensing or simply the fact that Apple uses the rest of the money to support their stores and things like those free Genius bar appointments for folks that don't have AppleCare, those free workshops etc. They are not making hundreds and hundreds of dollars on every machine sold. Perhaps not even $100 in some cases.

Nope, you're wrong again on a couple levels. PC laptops are much cheaper, and more common because THEY are for the common man. College kids have their parents buying so many of the Apple items. Either that, or they blow their scholarship funds and grants on a Macbook. College isn't cheap... What are you thinking, kid? Apple for the common man went away a while ago.

 

[-hh]

Ha, ha - how long ago was this?

Gosh, with how long this has gone on and with price drops, I'd assume around $60...

The survey was within the past month .. checking the archives, posed on Feb 10th (post #4934).


IIRC, a few of the comments mentioned that the price point was equivalent to what they could get a cheap BR player for, which motivated me to ask a follow-up question by splitting it: BR reader-only, and BR authoring. I don't recall if anyone put a price on BR authoring specifically ... and I don't think anyone suggested anything at any time even close to the $1000 notional price point that I initially suggested.

He wants to prevent people from having the ability to choose to have a popular media format work out of the box with their mac products NOW and yet he forces his customers to give up firewire on their laptops to make room for a connector to which NO affordable peripherals can attach....

Gee, that's odd because I seem to recall that all of those new MacBook Pros that were just announced still had FW on them.

Similarly, judgements on what is "affordable" is ultimately in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps you can suggest another (and cheap) way to get as-fast (700+MB/sec) transfer rates on a laptop?

The old saying from car racing applies to computers too:
SPEED COSTS MONEY; how fast do you want to go?



-hh

 

[linux2mac]

PC laptops are much cheaper, and more common because THEY are for the common man.

So just because Windows PC's can be found at the majority of Fortune 500 companies doesn't mean they are quality machines? How can that be? LOL

 

[blairh]

Ripping your discs and then selling the movies is illegal (and ripping is kinda illegal too). But the truth is you'll never get caught doing it, so it's up to you if you want to go that route.

Will there ever come a day when 1080p DRM free movies will be sold through iTunes? I have serious apprehensions about buying movies from iTunes knowing that they are DRM (and tied to 5 devices).

I know software exits to strip DRM from iTunes movies, but I believe it's for SD content only. I would contemplate an HD movie purchase from iTunes if I could strip it of DRM.

I do think Apple may offer Blu-ray one day, but not for years.

 

[wonderspark]

So just because Windows PC's can be found at the majority of Fortune 500 companies doesn't mean they are quality machines? How can that be? LOL

I don't think that statement-question makes sense. It seems like you're attempting to say PCs are cheap and therefore poor quality. That would fit your modus operandi.

The thing is, your failure to achieve success with Windows is/was your own failure, and only you were responsible for it. It certainly wasn't like that for me, nor for the majority of others. If it was that bad, nobody would use them.

It's great that you found success by switching to Macs. It's clear that you believe in Apple with all your heart. When Apple rules all our lives, we can all eat our words, and you'll be able to bullhorn your message ("I was right!") with confident vindication.

 

[linux2mac]

I don't think that statement-question makes sense. It seems like you're attempting to say PCs are cheap and therefore poor quality.

The truth hurts.

The thing is, your failure to achieve success with Windows is/was your own failure, and only you were responsible for it. It certainly wasn't like that for me, nor for the majority of others. If it was that bad, nobody would use them.

You assume that I have failed at using Windows. (And you know what happens when we assume?) I actually still support Windows for one client that has a legacy Access application. Further, I am a Microsoft trained applications developer bv a Fortune 100 Microsoft shop. So trust me, I have plenty of MS experience. When I left and started my own company five years ago I came across Linux and Mac and realized what a sham MS had been all this time. Yes, I drank the Windows Kool Aid for close to two decades but NOT anymore. I can do everything better than Windows with Mac and Linux. Thus your statement would be accurate:

PC laptops are much cheaper, and more common because THEY are for the common man.

A BD equipped PC does not make it superior to the stability and reliability of a Mac or a Linux box. So then tell me why the world's largest website runs on Apache and not IIS?

P.S. I still keep in touch with colleagues from other Fortune 100's in my town (think blue and gold electronics retailer) and they agree that Windows is garbage even though they get paid to work with Windows. LOL

 

[janstett]

+1

Look at all the people still using Windows, they "just don't know any better." That's why I left Windows and PC's for Macs. Even though my Macs lack BD, I'll take a cutting edge machine and OS over a certain type of optical drive any day. That's why I have a dedicated BD player and my PS3. Speaking of the PS3, I feel bad for the Europeans right now who can't get a PS3 due to the LG BD lawsuit. You guys have to admit, it is funny that Blu-ray is a "bag of hurt" to its own inventors. LOL

-1

If a platform is lacking hardware and software features that are up to 5+ years old and well established, can it truly be said to be "cutting edge" anymore? Huge swaths of the product line use a 5 year old Core2 processor line, no Blu-Ray/eSATA/USB3, no support for HDMI and multichannel audio (*except for the new Mini), no support for deep color, and video chipsets that are generations behind, et al. That hardly sounds "cutting edge", it's "late majority" and "laggard" on the bell-curve. Not stepping up to the plate and adopting the highest quality way to watch movies doesn't sound very cutting edge to me.

Very clearly, it's iTunes. iTunes is not the best way to listen to music, but it's "good enough". Apple is infected by the iTunes mentality of "good enough" and that's why its "cutting edge" computers don't support Blu-Ray. It's why its hardware is generations out of date. It's quite brilliant, really, to sell spoiled milk at a premium.

Back when Apple actually was cutting edge, they planned to spearhead Blu-Ray. Back around 2005.

http://www.macworld.com/article/43515/2005/03/bluray.html

Apple is pleased to join the Blu-ray Disc Association board as part of our efforts to drive consumer adoption of HD. Consumers are already creating stunning HD content with Apple’s leading video editing applications like iMovie HD and are anxiously awaiting a way to burn their own high def DVDs.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/mar/10blu-ray.html

“Apple has a long history of technical innovation around DVD hardware and software, and their support of the Blu-ray Disc format is a testament to their commitment of ongoing innovation. The Blu-ray Disc format provides the immense capacity and the revolutionary functionality that Apple’s loyal customer base will be sure to enjoy,” said Maureen Weber, chief BDA spokesperson and general manager of HP's Optical Storage Solutions Business. “We’re thrilled about Apple joining our 16-member board, and we look forward to working with them on the development and promotion of the Blu-ray Disc format.”

See, that, in 2005, was cutting edge thinking. What would you say about a company that made that statement and 6 years later still hasn't gotten there?

Aside from LightThunder, Apple hasn't innovated the Mac platform since the Intel switch. Even Rosetta was the product of an external company.

It looks like true innovation at Apple was snuffed out some time around 2006, as far as the Mac is concerned. What a coincidence, that's when Apple started working on the first iPhone. More ammo for the iToy conspiracy.

You seem like a smart guy so I'm sure you understand that Jobs doesn't have all the control here. The labels do. And they haven't wanted higher quality files because they still believed that physical disks were the way to go. This change could have less to do with Steve and Apple and more with the labels figuring out that they were wrong. Digital can be highly viable. Plus Apple may have some leverage they can use over them. Like the end of a contract. Perhaps if the labels want to keep their pricing control they will have to up the quality they allow in the stores.

I think you're off a bit here. Steve Jobs is the gatekeeper and has more control over the record studios than you seem to think. Further, the labels aren't holding back on higher quality files because they are trying to push physical disks. As proof, I offer the high quality and audiophile sources such as the Beatles 24-bit USB stick (I wouldn't consider it a physical format even though it was distributed on a USB thumb drive), Chesky, HDTracks.com, et al. I don't think the labels have been the ones preventing FLAC/ALAC as lossless and high-res have been available through other outlets like Chesky for years; it's just lossy MP3/AAC is "good enough" and Apple does "good enough". Which makes it even more curious that all of a sudden not just lossless but 24-bit becomes important to Apple. Again I think Steve is such a Beatlephile he's looking at the 24-bit releases and wishing he could have it on the Apple store; it's nothing more than the whimsy and vanity of Jobs himself IMO.

 

[wonderspark]

Ok, Mike. Go ahead and walk that line between all your "buggy Windows" statements and these new non-failure ones. You're conflicted, mang.

Can we agree Windows worked fine for you, but Macs work better?

 

[-hh]

-1

If a platform is lacking hardware and software features that are up to 5+ years old and well established, can it truly be said to be "cutting edge" anymore?

Because being on the cutting edge often bleeds compromise.

For example, wasn't the battery life on many of those initial BR based Windows laptops was so poor that it couldn't even last long enough to play the movie on that BR disk even once through? Particularly if the consumer wasn't willing to budge from the 'cutting edge' of a <5lb system.

Huge swaths of the product line use a 5 year old Core2 processor line..

Yes, and was that not basically due to the lack of technology that could meet the power & thermal envelope requirements for the "cutting edge" system packaging?

Again, it comes down to consumer priorities. Just because you personally may be still willing to (literally?) still tolerate having a PDP-11 sized 'personal' computer doesn't mean that this is the marketplace's direction.

Very clearly, it's iTunes. iTunes is not the best way to listen to music, but it's "good enough". Apple is infected by the iTunes mentality of "good enough" and that's why its "cutting edge" computers don't support Blu-Ray. It's why its hardware is generations out of date. It's quite brilliant, really, to sell spoiled milk at a premium.

You have it backwards: iTunes wasn't seeking to be lousy - - that was the "cutting edge" technology trade-off. The marketplace breakthrough of iTunes was that its technology implementation pandered to consumer desires for easy & immediate gratification. By necessity, downloads had to be fast...which is what compromised their quality to merely 'good enough'. As bandwidth availability has improved, we're now seeing the higher quality sound being offered as an option.

Back when Apple actually was cutting edge, they planned to spearhead Blu-Ray. Back around 2005.

http://www.macworld.com/article/43515/2005/03/bluray.html

Perhaps you should read your own quotes a bit more carefully? I read that statement as saying that consumers want HD ... but not necessarily the leap to the very specific implementation of HD on BR.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/mar/10blu-ray.html

...and here's Maureen Weber from the BR association putting their personally self-serving spin on what Apple said, to make it sound like Apple was going to push BR specifically.

To continue to complain about this today is essentially admitting that these vacuous press releases successfully mislead you into believing something significantly greater than what they actually said.

In fact, one can look back at Apple's 2005 "... our efforts to drive consumer adoption of HD" and over at 720p HD on the Apple TV as being a real world implementation of their 'efforts'.

And while I know that you're looking for nothing less than 1080p via BR media, what's missing is a direct Apple quote where they ever unambiguously made that specific promise, so claim that they have backpedalled.
Happy Data Mining...


-hh

 

[Porco]

It's very noticeable. I noticed the difference too on my "17 Macbook Pro.
As for converting your BD movies, you're better off with VMware Fusion + AnyDVD HD and AnotherEAC3to GUI (it does the same job as MakeMKV, expect it also losslessly converts TrueHD/DTS-HD to FLAC):

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17002

Enjoy HD in all its glory!!

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind. For now I'm more concerned about picture quality, but it's good to have options.

Perhaps you should read your own quotes a bit more carefully? I read that statement as saying that consumers want HD ... but not necessarily the leap to the very specific implementation of HD on BR.

I think it's easy to make that argument now, seeing that Apple have been so daft about it, but I think it's hard to argue that was the impression being given by joining the BDA board and talking about consumers waiting to "burn their own high def DVDs."

I mean, in what way does "waiting anxiously to burn their own high def DVDs" translate to 'no BD drives in macs though, it'll be downloads all the way!'?

In retrospect it looks like Apple only joined the board to try and damage BD's chances from the inside, which would be fairly sneaky if so.

 

[linux2mac]

Ok, Mike. Go ahead and walk that line between all your "buggy Windows" statements and these new non-failure ones. You're conflicted, mang.

Can we agree Windows worked fine for you, but Macs work better?

I cannot agree with you on the former as I think about all the lost hours spent fixing something versus not having to fix anything on my Mac since I bought it in 2009. That's why I feel cheated for the thousands of dollars I have sunk into MS only to receive an inferior product in return. However, I will agree with you on the latter part of your statement, "Macs work better." They are definitely worth the extra money we pay over a cheap PC - even with lack of BD support.

-1

If a platform is lacking hardware and software features that are up to 5+ years old and well established, can it truly be said to be "cutting edge" anymore? Huge swaths of the product line use a 5 year old Core2 processor line, no Blu-Ray/eSATA/USB3, no support for HDMI and multichannel audio (*except for the new Mini), no support for deep color, and video chipsets that are generations behind, et al. That hardly sounds "cutting edge", it's "late majority" and "laggard" on the bell-curve. Not stepping up to the plate and adopting the highest quality way to watch movies doesn't sound very cutting edge to me.

-2

Interesting. I just went to Dell's Small Biz website and also found "swaths" of the Core2 processor line.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...d&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&model_id=optiplex-380

 

[mpaul]

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind. For now I'm more concerned about picture quality, but it's good to have options.



I think it's easy to make that argument now, seeing that Apple have been so daft about it, but I think it's hard to argue that was the impression being given by joining the BDA board and talking about consumers waiting to "burn their own high def DVDs."

I mean, in what way does "waiting anxiously to burn their own high def DVDs" translate to 'no BD drives in macs though, it'll be downloads all the way!'?

In retrospect it looks like Apple only joined the board to try and damage BD's chances from the inside, which would be fairly sneaky if so.

No problem.
AnotherEAC3to combined with AnyDVD HD has been my personal favorite method for converting my BD's, when i used to hook up my Mac to my HDTV/AV Receiver. And i can confirm you that it does indeed a PERFECT 1:1 copy of the original movie as is, without any quality loss.
Keep in mind though that if you want to get lossless 24-bit quality DTS-HD MA tracks decoded to FLAC you will need either Arcsoft's DTS Decoder (included in the TMT 2 codec pack available "down the rabbit hole" ), or Surcode DTS-HD for Quicktime ($29):

http://www.dtshdforcompressor.com/justPressPlay.html

And here's Surcode DTS-HD working on a Mac:

 

[mpaul]

I cannot agree with you on the former as I think about all the lost hours spent fixing something versus not having to fix anything on my Mac since I bought it in 2009. That's why I feel cheated for the thousands of dollars I have sunk into MS only to receive an inferior product in return. However, I will agree with you on the latter part of your statement, "Macs work better." They are definitely worth the extra money we pay over a cheap PC - even with lack of BD support.



-2

Interesting. I just went to Dell's Small Biz website and also found "swaths" of the Core2 processor line.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...d&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&model_id=optiplex-380

They used to be stable.
I experienced both Tiger and Leopard in all their glory, and i had far better stability with them than with Snow Leopard.
Ever since i bought last year the "17 MBP (mid-2010 model) i had more beachballs/kernel panics than anything else. Got my logic board replaced, and i still had KP's every once in a while. I lost one entire week of work trying to convince Apple about getting the damn machine fixed again, and all they could tell me was "It's a software problem!"
I then wiped off the entire HD and installed both Ubuntu/Win7 x64, and you know what? Both of them worked like a charm (Linux being even more faster than OSX), without any single damn freeze.
It's interesting that you can run Windows 7 x64 or Ubuntu on a Mac far more better than any other "inferior" PC's out there, and OSX far better on non-Apple hardware, isn't?

 

[Nermal]

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind. For now I'm more concerned about picture quality, but it's good to have options.



I think it's easy to make that argument now, seeing that Apple have been so daft about it, but I think it's hard to argue that was the impression being given by joining the BDA board and talking about consumers waiting to "burn their own high def DVDs."

I mean, in what way does "waiting anxiously to burn their own high def DVDs" translate to 'no BD drives in macs though, it'll be downloads all the way!'?

In retrospect it looks like Apple only joined the board to try and damage BD's chances from the inside, which would be fairly sneaky if so.

There's a little bit in this release too:

Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD.

 

[linux2mac]

They used to be stable.
I experienced both Tiger and Leopard in all their glory, and i had far better stability with them than with Snow Leopard.
Ever since i bought last year the "17 MBP (mid-2010 model) i had more beachballs/kernel panics than anything else. Got my logic board replaced, and i still had KP's every once in a while. I lost one entire week of work trying to convince Apple about getting the damn machine fixed again, and all they could tell me was "It's a software problem!"
I then wiped off the entire HD and installed both Ubuntu/Win7 x64, and you know what? Both of them worked like a charm (Linux being even more faster than OSX), without any single damn freeze.
It's interesting that you can run Windows 7 x64 or Ubuntu on a Mac far more better than any other "inferior" PC's out there, and OSX far better on non-Apple hardware, isn't?

Sorry to hear about your 17" MBP woes.

I have heard that the best hardware to run Windows on is a Mac. It indeed is interesting.

 

[AidenShaw]

("Windows" + "Boot Camp") == "big bag of hurt"

I have heard that the best hardware to run Windows on is a Mac. It indeed is interesting.

Don't believe everything that you hear.

Does a $2500 MacBook run Windows7 better than a $299 Costco special? Of course. Well, maybe except for trying to find drivers for the trackpad and having to chord right-click and wrong-click and middle-click.

How about the $1000 mini-tower with a good graphics card? That will run Windows better than any Apple at the price.

The most worrisome thing about buying an Apple to run Windows, though, is the chance that it may contain some non-standard hardware and you have to depend upon Apple to supply you with the drivers. Apple has a checkered past in regards to timely updates for its Windows products. (Prime example, Itunes not ready for the Vista RTM.)

 

[linux2mac]

How about the $1000 mini-tower with a good graphics card? That will run Windows better than any Apple at the price.

What about a $699 Mac Mini ( a college buddy of mine picked one up on Amazon at Xmas for $599)? Or a re-furbed at $399 - $429 ( I have seen them on the Apple site in the past at that price)?

 

[mpaul]

Sorry to hear about your 17" MBP woes.

I have heard that the best hardware to run Windows on is a Mac. It indeed is interesting.

Yeah, pretty sucky. Considering that even if i sell it i would probably get like $1000 or even low. But, anyway.
Installing Windows/Ubuntu was only a personal test to confirm that the problem is indeed related to the crappy Intel HD GPU (all KP's i had were related to this GPU). By default, both Windows/Ubuntu load only the Geforce 330m GT GPU, leaving the Intel HD one shut off. Hence why i didn't experienced any crashes with them.

 

[linux2mac]

Yeah, pretty sucky. Considering that even if i sell it i would probably get like $1000 or even low. But, anyway.
Installing Windows/Ubuntu was only a personal test to confirm that the problem is indeed related to the crappy Intel HD GPU (all KP's i had were related to this GPU). By default, both Windows/Ubuntu load only the Geforce 330m GT GPU, leaving the Intel HD one shut off. Hence why i didn't experienced any crashes with them.

So they won't budge? Have you tried a different Apple store? Talk to the manager? Are you a business customer? Sometimes contacting your business liaison can be helpful. I would be extremely upset if any of my Macs were faulty, especially since I paid for Apple Care.

 

[AidenShaw]

You tell me....

What about a $699 Mac Mini ( a college buddy of mine picked one up on Amazon at Xmas for $599)? Or a re-furbed at $399 - $429 ( I have seen them on the Apple site in the past at that price)?

I bolded the "better" components.

   [B]Apple Mini-Mac [/B]                 [B]Dell XPS 8300[/B]
2.4GHz Intel dual Core 2 Duo     [B]3.1 GHZ 2nd Gen quad Core i5-2400[/B]
3 MiB cache                      [B]6 MiB cache[/B]
2GB memory 1066Mhz               [B]8 GiB 1333 MHz memory[/B]
320GB hard drive                 [B]1 TB 7200 RPM drive[/B]
8x double-layer SuperDrive       [B]16X DVD/CD burner[/B]
NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics     [B]Radeon HD 5670[/B]
256 MiB shared VRAM              [B]1 GiB dedicated DDR5 VRAM[/B]
USB 2.0                          [B]USB 3.0[/B]
No monitor                       [B]21.5" 1920x1080 LCD[/B]
No keyboard/mouse                [B]keyboard/laser mouse[/B]
No expansion                     [B]2 open PCIe slots[/B]
                                 [B]eSATA port[/B]
1 year warranty                  [B]2 year in-home warranty[/B]

    $699                                $978
   ($999 with 8 GiB RAM)

Price is a tossup - if you match RAM at 8 GiB in both systems the MiniMac is more expensive.

A sad thing is, the XPS mini-tower would blow the $2499 Mac Pro away on everything but graphics power (the XPS has a $60 option to upgrade to the same HD 5770 that's on the Mac Pro - so at $1038 it even matches the maxi-tower Mac in graphics).

And of course, to stay on the thread topic, a BD drive is a $120 option on the XPS.

 

[AidenShaw]

...test to confirm that the problem is indeed related to the crappy Intel HD GPU (all KP's i had were related to this GPU). By default, both Windows/Ubuntu load only the Geforce 330m GT GPU, leaving the Intel HD one shut off. Hence why i didn't experienced any crashes with them.

A more complete test would be to use the Intel HD GPU on Windows/Ubuntu. If it's stable on the Intel GPU, then the problem is the Apple drivers for the Intel GPU, not the GPU.

 

[linux2mac]

I bolded the "better" components.

   [B]Apple Mini-Mac [/B]                 [B]Dell XPS 8300[/B]
2.4GHz Intel dual Core 2 Duo     [B]3.1 GHZ 2nd Gen quad Core i5-2400[/B]
3 MiB cache                      [B]6 MiB cache[/B]
2GB memory 1066Mhz               [B]8 GiB 1333 MHz memory[/B]
320GB hard drive                 [B]1 TB 7200 RPM drive[/B]
8x double-layer SuperDrive       [B]16X DVD/CD burner[/B]
NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics     [B]Radeon HD 5670[/B]
256 GiB shared VRAM              [B]1 GiB dedicated DDR5 VRAM[/B]
USB 2.0                          [B]USB 3.0[/B]
No monitor                       [B]21.5" 1920x1080 LCD[/B]
No keyboard/mouse                [B]keyboard/laser mouse[/B]
No expansion                     [B]2 open PCIe slots[/B]
                                 [B]eSATA port[/B]
1 year warranty                  [B]2 year in-home warranty[/B]

    $699                                $978
   ($999 with 8 GiB RAM)

Price is a tossup - if you match RAM at 8 GiB in both systems the MiniMac is more expensive.

And of course, to stay on the thread topic, a BD drive is a $120 option on the XPS.

Not so fast. I paid $108 for 8GB RAM from OWC.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Apple_Mac_mini/DDR3

So we need to adjust your comparison above.

$699 + $108 = $807 versus $978 Dell.

And to stay on topic, add any external BD of your choice

 

[AidenShaw]

Not so fast. I paid $108 for 8GB RAM from OWC.

My comparison was for systems as shipped from the manufacturer. I didn't do piece-meal after-market non-warranteed upgrades on the Dell to save a few bucks, neither did I do that for the Apple.

So we need to adjust your comparison above.

$699 + $108 = $807 versus $978 Dell

How do we "adjust" for the fact that you still have a two generation old dual core CPU vs a new quad, less cache, slower memory, smaller & slower disk, slower DVD, shared memory integrated graphics, no USB 3.0, no monitor/keyboard/mouse, no expansion, and a shorter "carry-in" warranty?

And to stay on topic, add any external BD of your choice

But, you won't be able to watch BD movies on the Apple, whereas you can on the Dell (even connected to your uber-orgasmatron projector and screen over HDMI).

Apple fail on that point.

 

[linux2mac]

My comparison was for systems as shipped from the manufacturer. I didn't do piece-meal after-market non-warranteed upgrades on the Dell to save a few bucks, neither did I do that for the Apple.

Putting in 8GB RAM from OWC did not void my Apple warranty. I confirmed with Apple Enterprise. But I understand what you mean for a comparison "for systems as shipped from the manufacturer."

How do we "adjust" for the fact that you still have a two generation old dual core CPU vs a new quad, less cache, slower memory, smaller & slower disk, slower DVD, shared memory integrated graphics, no USB 3.0, no monitor/keyboard/mouse, no expansion, and a shorter "carry-in" warranty?

Not for long. We will see faster Mini's with Thunderbolt very soon.

But, you won't be able to watch BD movies on the Apple, whereas you can on the Dell (even connected to your uber-orgasmatron projector and screen over HDMI).

But I prefer my PS3 as my BD player (with HDMI).

 

[AidenShaw]

Putting in 8GB RAM from OWC did not void my Apple warranty. I confirmed with Apple Enterprise. But I understand what you mean for a comparison "for systems as shipped from the manufacturer."

Not for long. We will see faster Mini's with Thunderbolt very soon.

But I prefer my PS3 as my BD player (with HDMI).

Congratulations for being able to completely miss how the Dell trounces the MiniMac - yet you keep on typing.

And wow - a MiniMac with ThunderPort. An interface with exactly zero products on the market. An interface with two announced products in the pipeline - both of which will have price tags bigger than the MiniMac.
_____________

Anyway, the context of this sub-thread was my claim that no Apple could come close to a $1000 mini-tower. In spite of efforts to derail that thought - none have succeeded. A $2499 Apple is weak in comparison to a $979 Dell. A $699/$999 Apple is a toy compared to the $979 Dell.