Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[arkmannj]

Just wondering, what's the benefit(s) (if any) of not having BR on our Computers ? even if Apple were to shed all optical drives then Apple still wouldn't drop the price of their products. If they do keep them then how could it be a bad thing to have BR ? atleast those of us that use it for our professional and/or personal needs would be able to take advantage of it, while those who do not need/want to use it can continue to just use it the same as the current drives with no loss of functionality, only a gain in flexiblity.

anyhow just my opinion, I know everyones uses/wants/needs are different and I'm not saying that people who don't want BR are dumb, just that I would love to have the option of a built-in BR drive.

 

[fridgeymonster3]

I have to say that, in general, I'm saddened by the logic and reasoning of many people who have posted in this thread. Several people have stated that the majority of people don't care, want, need 1080p resolution and HD Audio; therefore, the minority just has to deal with it. Also, many have said they don't want it, so no one else needs blu-ray support.

I don't want to hijack this and make it a PRSI thread, and I'm sorry to those who have responded that blu-ray doesn't fit Apple's business model and not supporting it makes perfect sense, but for the rest of you bashing the minority because they are the minority is ridiculous. The majority of Americans are against gay marriage, which effects a minority population. They don't find the reasons, benefits, etc of supporting gay marriage, because they have no interest, need, or want for it. A minority population doesn't deserve being discriminated by a majority population just based on the majority populations views. I know the topics are not even close to equal, but everyone's flawed rationalization is. Instead of saying you don't need 1080p, anyone who does is a audio/video snob, and because you don't need it or the majority doesn't need it then Apple shouldn't support it, find an intelligent reason for why Max OS X shouldn't have blu-ray support. Stop the whole I don't need it so you don't need it, or we don't need it so you don't need it arguments. Those arguments are pathetic.

 

[fridgeymonster3]

A metaphor for calling someone a a brainless fool who can't think for themselves. No- not an insult at all.

No, learn how to translate the metaphor. Because you are drinking the Kool-aid, you are personally choosing to follow said Kool-aid provider blindly and in all circumstances. Does not imply you are brainless. Could be explained as unequivocal loyalty.

 

[cube]

Who said the minority is the people who care about Blu-ray? The minority are the loud fanboys.

 

[Reddkryten]

Who said the minority is the people who care about Blu-ray? The minority are the loud fanboys.

Based on the rate of sales for Blu-Rays and the rapidly increasing amount of BRDs in stock in HMV, you are absolutely correct.

If a Mac was released tomorrow with Blu-Ray support, would anyone actually be disappointed? I mean, sure some people won't have any particular reason to use it, but would anyone actively dislike it?

 

[cmfilms]

I blame Windows laptop hunters commercial. They went out of their way with that "Blu-ray!!!" comment. I think Steve jobs is just stubborn enough to ride through until Blu-ray dies, just to prove everyone wrong, even to his own detriment.

 

[arkmannj]

Based on the rate of sales for Blu-Rays and the rapidly increasing amount of BRDs in stock in HMV, you are absolutely correct.

If a Mac was released tomorrow with Blu-Ray support, would anyone actually be disappointed? I mean, sure some people won't have any particular reason to use it, but would anyone actively dislike it?

+1 exactly.

 

[Black Macbook]

I could buy Steve Job's argument if they cut out all optical drives from their machines!

I hope that the next laptops that they come out with have no optical drive at all in them. They could add a second hard drive or a bigger graphics card instead of a drive that hardly gets used.

Apple, why offer me DVD and claim the Blu-Ray is not needed? If Blu-Ray is not needed, then neither is DVD. Give us Blu-Ray or nothing at all!

 

[PeterQVenkman]

If a Mac was released tomorrow with Blu-Ray support, would anyone actually be disappointed? I mean, sure some people won't have any particular reason to use it, but would anyone actively dislike it?

I agree.

The blind following of Jobs' reasoning frustrates me. I would love more choice in the ability of my mac, especially if it was BTO only. Why hate on having extra abilities for HD playback and backup on the mac?

 

[waywardsage]

Just this afternoon, I was talking to a co-worker. She said her husband was stark, raving mad at the local Best Buy store, because he ran in there last night just before they closed, to get ahold of the new release by the band Rush on DVD - and before buying it, he checked to "make sure it wasn't one of those blu-ray versions". He doesn't own anything that can play those. So as you can guess, he got home, got finished with everything he had to do for the night, and popped in the Rush DVD to check it out, and NOPE! Blu-Ray disc!

I hear a lot of similar stuff, from average, every-day people who say they have zero interest in watching anything on Blu-Ray due to the high cost of the discs, or because they're not interested in having yet ANOTHER format of media around the house that only works in certain equipment, or because they just don't think HD resolution is that big a deal to them.

I know myself, I bought a Playstation 3 when they first came out (only because my brother worked at a toy store that got in a few, when it was in huge demand, and offered to save one for me). Since that time, you know how many Blu-Ray discs I've ever watched on it? 1! (Blade Runner) And that was a box-set my former g/f bought for me, and took with her when we broke up -- so I don't even own that one anymore!

I'm not denying that the new Mac Mini might be a great machine to introduce Blu-Ray support in, since we all know many will wind up as media center computers. But the fact is, Apple views Blu-Ray as "mostly a negative" for them -- and they're probably right. How many sales would they potentially lose on the iTunes store if people bought that much more movie content on Blu-Ray disc instead? And how much additional mark-up could they really put on a new Mac just because they added the Blu-Ray drive? (Hint: Not too much, or people would throw a huge fit, saying "Don't pay that big Apple tax for a drive! Just go out and buy a 3rd. party one and install it yourself, and hack OS X or reflash the drive's BIOS so it's supported as a native one!")

For all the Mac systems I've owned over here, the lack of Blu-Ray hasn't even really been a consideration whatsoever.... If a new one did include it, I doubt it'd really get used.

First off, Best Buy was selling the RUSH Blu ray for LESS than the DVD release this week. And your husband was one of those people who bought all the Blu rays that people like me were pissed that they were sold out of! Blu ray rules. It looks/sounds amazing.

I've repeated this a ton of times, downloads have a TON of drawbacks.

Bandwidth caps-No more unlimited buffet here in the US anymore for many people.

Portability - How do you take a movie to a friends house and watch it? How do you let them barrow it?!

Quality - HD downloads look and sound like ass compared to Blu ray. The only way they wouldn't would be if they were the same size of blu ray - i.e. 25-50GB

Download speeds - Sure, maybe in 8 years i'll see 100 M/Bits download. But I don't know ANYONE in Southern, CA who has that. The internet is a fickle beast. Downloads are great, if i want to wait for a day to download an HD episode of an hr show!

Storage.- External hard drives huh? Because my laptop hard drive is almost bursting full as is. So carrying a brick size hard drive around is more convenient than a few blu ray discs?

Streaming - You have the have the software/box/connection available everywhere to facilitate this. So you can say no to bringing it over to a friends house. Pretty soon most people will have blu ray. And you can just bring the disc over.

Extras- So i have to pay extra on iTunes to watch the extras?! They come free with the Blu ray/DVD!!


Also - For those people who say Steve won't include it to protect his iTunes profit. How about the DVD drives that are already in most macs! There are FAR MORE DVD consumers out there. And if that were the case/logic, Steve would be pulling those out of macs in masse.

iTunes still has a terrible selection. And this is dependent on getting all the hollywood studios to play nice and submit their movies. Let me know how that works out. It's still not 100% with all the record companies.

 

[00Diablo]

I've long ago given up on Apple incorporating Blu-Ray, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna use it. I have a PS3 for that reason.

As a musician, the audio improvements alone make Blu-Ray a worthwhile format over DVD or any current type of internet streaming/download service. Lossy Dolby Digital or DTS is not really acceptable to me on any content I purchase for long term enjoyment. I can tolerate the substandard lossy audio for rentals or TV shows, but the lack of lossless audio is why I've never made a purchase through the iTunes store - despite having a nearly 1TB iTunes library.

Until iTunes store can stream or provide movies and music with lossless audio, I will just keep ripping away.

I think Steve is wrong on this one, but I've dismissed his comments regarding media quality ever since he insisted the iPod boombox would replace his main audio system.

However, I will continue to buy Apple products - as I don't really need a Blu-Ray player incorporated into my computer hardware. This is not that big of an issue, from my point of view.

 

[cube]

I could buy Steve Job's argument if they cut out all optical drives from their machines!

I hope that the next laptops that they come out with have no optical drive at all in them. They could add a second hard drive or a bigger graphics card instead of a drive that hardly gets used.

Apple, why offer me DVD and claim the Blu-Ray is not needed? If Blu-Ray is not needed, then neither is DVD. Give us Blu-Ray or nothing at all!

No optical drive at all on MBPs would be the final push to Linux.

 

[jjahshik32]

First off, Best Buy was selling the RUSH Blu ray for LESS than the DVD release this week. And your husband was one of those people who bought all the Blu rays that people like me were pissed that they were sold out of! Blu ray rules. It looks/sounds amazing.

I've repeated this a ton of times, downloads have a TON of drawbacks.

Bandwidth caps-No more unlimited buffet here in the US anymore for many people.

Portability - How do you take a movie to a friends house and watch it? How do you let them barrow it?!

Quality - HD downloads look and sound like ass compared to Blu ray. The only way they wouldn't would be if they were the same size of blu ray - i.e. 25-50GB

Download speeds - Sure, maybe in 8 years i'll see 100 M/Bits download. But I don't know ANYONE in Southern, CA who has that. The internet is a fickle beast. Downloads are great, if i want to wait for a day to download an HD episode of an hr show!

Storage.- External hard drives huh? Because my laptop hard drive is almost bursting full as is. So carrying a brick size hard drive around is more convenient than a few blu ray discs?

Streaming - You have the have the software/box/connection available everywhere to facilitate this. So you can say no to bringing it over to a friends house. Pretty soon most people will have blu ray. And you can just bring the disc over.

Extras- So i have to pay extra on iTunes to watch the extras?! They come free with the Blu ray/DVD!!


Also - For those people who say Steve won't include it to protect his iTunes profit. How about the DVD drives that are already in most macs! There are FAR MORE DVD consumers out there. And if that were the case/logic, Steve would be pulling those out of macs in masse.

iTunes still has a terrible selection. And this is dependent on getting all the hollywood studios to play nice and submit their movies. Let me know how that works out. It's still not 100% with all the record companies.

Well your arguments are valid and I agree to a certain point but you could fix all those peeves with using your PS3.

I think the whole point of people wanting a bluray player in their macbook pros or mac pros is that OH LOOK SHINY BLURAY PLAYER! Now I have endless possibilities, but they almost never really use it since there is a PS3 under the HDTV.

 

[435713]

I've long ago given up on Apple incorporating Blu-Ray, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna use it. I have a PS3 for that reason.

As a musician, the audio improvements alone make Blu-Ray a worthwhile format over DVD or any current type of internet streaming/download service. Lossy Dolby Digital or DTS is not really acceptable to me on any content I purchase for long term enjoyment. I can tolerate the substandard lossy audio for rentals or TV shows, but the lack of lossless audio is why I've never made a purchase through the iTunes store - despite having a nearly 1TB iTunes library.

Until iTunes store can stream or provide movies and music with lossless audio, I will just keep ripping away.

I think Steve is wrong on this one, but I've dismissed his comments regarding media quality ever since he insisted the iPod boombox would replace his main audio system.

However, I will continue to buy Apple products - as I don't really need a Blu-Ray player incorporated into my computer hardware. This is not that big of an issue, from my point of view.

Agreed with you sir. + you can rip a blu ray to your HDD and play it from there. File is a big Mo fo though. There are work arounds if you need some Blu Ray content on a Mac. I dont see what the big deal is since ever other PC manufacturer uses it in a few of their models. + Apple already charges a premium.

I mean I get they got to stroke the stockholders, (shareholders sounds fruity so I say stockholders) but good Christ you skimp enough on your ports on devices already. NutJobs needs one of those nWo beatings if anyone remembers WCW back in the day

 

[waywardsage]

Well your arguments are valid and I agree to a certain point but you could fix all those peeves with using your PS3.

I think the whole point of people wanting a bluray player in their macbook pros or mac pros is that OH LOOK SHINY BLURAY PLAYER! Now I have endless possibilities, but they almost never really use it since there is a PS3 under the HDTV.

I do have a PS3 and I enjoy it a lot. But, when i want to travel or go somewhere else, I'm sorta screwed if i only bought the film on Blu ray. I cant just take that blu ray with me on the go and slap it into my macbook pro if i'm in a hotel room or bored at work. I just want the same drive in all my devices so i can use it elsewhere too.

I watch most of my films on my PS3 and 40" LCD. But, i'd like to be able to watch those films elsewhere too. And untill the Blu ray/DVD/Digital copy becomes popular, i don't have many options now.

 

[aaaaaaron]

let's be friends, and don't get mad if apple let's me have a blu ray someday

 

[potaco]

First off, Best Buy was selling the RUSH Blu ray for LESS than the DVD release this week. And your husband was one of those people who bought all the Blu rays that people like me were pissed that they were sold out of! Blu ray rules. It looks/sounds amazing.

I've repeated this a ton of times, downloads have a TON of drawbacks.

Bandwidth caps-No more unlimited buffet here in the US anymore for many people.

Portability - How do you take a movie to a friends house and watch it? How do you let them barrow it?!

Quality - HD downloads look and sound like ass compared to Blu ray. The only way they wouldn't would be if they were the same size of blu ray - i.e. 25-50GB

Download speeds - Sure, maybe in 8 years i'll see 100 M/Bits download. But I don't know ANYONE in Southern, CA who has that. The internet is a fickle beast. Downloads are great, if i want to wait for a day to download an HD episode of an hr show!

Storage.- External hard drives huh? Because my laptop hard drive is almost bursting full as is. So carrying a brick size hard drive around is more convenient than a few blu ray discs?

Streaming - You have the have the software/box/connection available everywhere to facilitate this. So you can say no to bringing it over to a friends house. Pretty soon most people will have blu ray. And you can just bring the disc over.

Extras- So i have to pay extra on iTunes to watch the extras?! They come free with the Blu ray/DVD!!


Also - For those people who say Steve won't include it to protect his iTunes profit. How about the DVD drives that are already in most macs! There are FAR MORE DVD consumers out there. And if that were the case/logic, Steve would be pulling those out of macs in masse.

iTunes still has a terrible selection. And this is dependent on getting all the hollywood studios to play nice and submit their movies. Let me know how that works out. It's still not 100% with all the record companies.

+1. The people that are "against" Blu-ray are simply "cheap," uneducated or unwilling/stubborn.

A cheap DVD player (480p) costs maybe $25-30. A cheap upconverting DVD player (720p) costs around $50. A cheap Blu-ray player (1080p) is around $100 and can still play all your existing DVDs. A 1080p source displays almost 7x more detail than a 480p source (2073600 pixels vs. 307200 pixels). Pixel-wise, a Blu-ray player is the better value.

As of spring of this year, over 50% of homes have an HDTV, so the argument that "most people are happy with their old TV" is quickly losing its sway.

For the discs themselves, they are no more expensive than DVDs used to be. Search Amazon for a while and you'll find countless examples where the Blu-ray version of a movie is actually cheaper than the DVD. New releases will be more, but everyone should expect that anyway.

So yeah, for an increasingly smaller number of people, Blu-ray just doesn't matter or isn't appealing... but things have been changing. Steve needs to get off his high horse and start telling people what they CAN do, instead of what they CAN'T.

 

[jjahshik32]

I do have a PS3 and I enjoy it a lot. But, when i want to travel or go somewhere else, I'm sorta screwed if i only bought the film on Blu ray. I cant just take that blu ray with me on the go and slap it into my macbook pro if i'm in a hotel room or bored at work. I just want the same drive in all my devices so i can use it elsewhere too.

I watch most of my films on my PS3 and 40" LCD. But, i'd like to be able to watch those films elsewhere too. And untill the Blu ray/DVD/Digital copy becomes popular, i don't have many options now.

Why dont you just buy a dvd? Its cheaper, quality is still more than good enough on a 15" display. Or just sign up with netflix and stream 720p, even with a high resolution display on a 15" or 17" macbook pro, it'll look just as good as a bluray disc on such a small display. Oh and its way cheaper too, $8.99 for unlimited downloads with alot of content available.

 

[jjahshik32]

+1. The people that are "against" Blu-ray are simply "cheap," uneducated or unwilling/stubborn.

A cheap DVD player (480p) costs maybe $25-30. A cheap upconverting DVD player (720p) costs around $50. A cheap Blu-ray player (1080p) is around $100 and can still play all your existing DVDs. A 1080p source displays almost 7x more detail than a 480p source (2073600 pixels vs. 307200 pixels). Pixel-wise, a Blu-ray player is the better value.

As of spring of this year, over 50% of homes have an HDTV, so the argument that "most people are happy with their old TV" is quickly losing its sway.

For the discs themselves, they are no more expensive that DVDs used to be. Search Amazon for a while and you'll find countless examples where the Blu-ray is actually cheaper than the DVD. New releases will be more, but everyone should expect that anyway.

So yeah, for an increasingly smaller number of people, Blu-ray just doesn't matter or isn't appealing... but things have been changing. Steve needs to get off his high horse and tell people what they CAN do, instead of what they CAN'T.

If it really comes down to it, Steve is making the right choice in a business sense for Apple. If they incorporate bluray players into the macbook pro, more than half of the apple customers that are buying macs will stop buying itune movies and start using their bluray discs that they've already own or bought (or continue to only buy blurays to pop into their macs) and it will eat up alot of the itunes hd movie sales.

Just wait a little longer when full 1080p is available for stream from netflix and itunes, I will gaurantee you that bluray disc debates will die.

 

[potaco]

Why dont you just buy a dvd? Its cheaper, quality is still more than good enough on a 15" display. Or just sign up with netflix and stream 720p, even with a high resolution display on a 15" or 17" macbook pro, it'll look just as good as a bluray disc on such a small display. Oh and its way cheaper too, $8.99 for unlimited downloads with alot of content available.

You must not understand resolutions. A 15" hi-res MacBook Pro displays has a native resolution of 1680x1050. A standard DVD has a resolution of 640x480. Streaming 720p with Netflix is a joke... it's better than their standard stream, but I wouldn't say it's any better than DVD-quality. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that and a Blu-ray with a resolution of 1920x1080? I find that hard to believe.

Yes, I know Apple stays away from promoting specs/numbers... but in the case of displays, it makes a huge difference (which is why they advertised their new Retina display so much).

 

[Reddkryten]

Why dont you just buy a dvd?

Why should he?

The DVD would be convenient for the Mac at work etc...but dismal for the HD display at home.

At the moment the Blu-Ray is great at home, but useless at work.

Your solution is basically like saying "would you rather I cut off your left leg, or right leg" personally I'd rather keep both.

But yeah, my main point is, why should he?

 

[fridgeymonster3]

Who said the minority is the people who care about Blu-ray? The minority are the loud fanboys.

Ask and you shall receive

Who buys physical media nowadays?

Exactly- and this is the bottom line. The average person does not give a crap about 1080p and Blu-ray- they just want to watch movies.

How often do you really use your optical drive anymore and for what? How often do you see "normal" people use it? How many people really have a BluRay drive or even a burner? Nobody cares!

BluRay + HD is an enthusiast toy and most people just don't give enough ****

No one but a few loud pixel counters cares about 1080p, 3D, THX and all that stuff.

 

[jjahshik32]

You must not understand resolutions. A 15" hi-res MacBook Pro displays has a native resolution of 1680x1050. A standard DVD has a resolution of 640x480. Streaming 720p with Netflix is a joke... it's better than their standard stream, but I wouldn't say it's any better than DVD-quality. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that and a Blu-ray with a resolution of 1920x1080? I find that hard to believe.

There really isnt that big of a difference of a 720p or 1080p content on a 15" display even with a 1680x1050 or a 17" 1920x1200 display.

I have a sony bravia xbr6 52" that I play 720p in and most of the time comparing a ps3 bluray disc or a 12GB-20GB mkv 1080p bluray file, I cannot tell the difference to the 720p (at a certain distance that is).

I can tell the difference when I'm up closer to say about 5 feet but not such a dramatic difference that its a deal breaker. IMO, the only advantage really from a bluray disc is the sound files. And even then, if you own a $20,000+ surround sound system, then you can distinguish the difference by a mile (my cousin has a surround sound with B&W 800Ds and a center piece with a mcintosh (I can tell the difference on his system) but then mine is a lower end version of a B&W system so when I compare a bluray disc or an mkv file or even netflix, it doesnt make much of a difference.

I just got an Epson 8500UB 1080p projector a month ago and I hooked up the PS3 to it and my macbook pro via mkv bluray file, and tried out netflix. Now there on my 150" screen on my wall makes a bigger difference with the bluray and mkv files that looks identical (both 1080p with full dts, aac, ac3) but the 720p content looks stretched out.

Yea so I know what I'm talking about with real world usages.

 

[jjahshik32]

Why should he?

The DVD would be convenient for the Mac at work etc...but dismal for the HD display at home.

At the moment the Blu-Ray is great at home, but useless at work.

Your solution is basically like saying "would you rather I cut off your left leg, or right leg" personally I'd rather keep both.

But yeah, my main point is, why should he?

He said that he has a PS3 to use at home on his big screen hdtv, but on the go at a hotel or something he wants to watch something when he's bored, so a dvd should be more than enough imo.

Better yet, I suggested to subscribe to netflix where he can stream instant 720p content to his mac for $8.99 a month unlimited contents which is much cheaper and pretty much the same thing as popping in a bluray in terms of video quality on such a small screen, whether its 1680x1050 or 1920x1200.

Now were comparing cutting off a leg as to watching a dvd or bluray, jeez some people make some stupid analogies. I'm just glad its not a car related one though, those are so over used.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

It is only a matter of time before software will be sold on blu ray only. I have seen a lot of software that comes on mulitple DVDs.

For a time table in summer of 2004 software was starting to come on DVD and by 2005 it was common to see DVD only software release. DVD by that point had been around for over 5 years. So given that I say with in the next year or 2 software will start arriving on Blu-ray only.

Download only for stuff that size are a long ways off. blu rays can hold over 200gigs of data per disk (9 layers at 25 gigs a layer) So that upper ceiling of data are going to give them a long life span.